I can't upgrade the processor or video card in that Dell. Is it really a plus for Dell that the crappy $1,200 I posted can have upgradeable RAM? How good will 16 or 32GB be with a crappy i3?
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Apple is Robbing People with SSD Upgrade Prices...
- Thread starter jsnuff1
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But it's not about the starting configuration, and never has been. It's about the money. When people say they want the base M1/M2 to be 16/512 instead of 8/256, what they really mean is they want to pay the base price for the 16/512. And the reason they're saying this is because Apple charges literally double (and this is the literal use of literally) the industry standard for increased RAM and storage.
Dell charges $100 to go from 8 GB to 16 RAM, $100 to go from 512 GB to 1 TB storage, and $200 to go from 1 TB to 2 TB storage, in its consumer laptops.
Apple charges $200 to go from 8 GB to 16 RAM, $200 to go from 512 GB to 1 TB storage, and $400 to go from 1 TB to 2 TB storage, in its consumer laptops.
So Apple is not like the rest of the industry in this key sense when it comes to RAM and storage. Nor do I expect it to be. I accept that I pay more for an Apple product, in order to get the vastly better OS and customer service.
[I used the pricing for the Dell XPS 13 Plus, which uses the same LPDDR5 RAM as Apple does in its M2 Air and M1 Pro/Max/Ultra.]
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Fantastic, it’s not going to lower the price. You would just had that higher priced entry and no option for people that don’t need all this memory and storage. And frankly can’t afford all that. Just cause it’s not for you doesn’t mean it’s for no one. By this logic apple should start at 1tb and 32gb ram
Which is why I bought my mac with 512 GB internal and bought a Samsung 2 TB T7 SSD external for the rest of my storage.
Can’t believe Apple literally cornered me in an alleyway with a gun at my head, took my wallet and then threw some SSDs in my face.
I’m shaking 😔
I’m shaking 😔
In my opinion, only buy the base M2 MacBook Air. If you start adding upgrades, the machine becomes way too expensive for what you are getting.
Well, I think you've proven that Thinkpads can beat Macs when it comes to being expensive. Even then the upgrade from 256GB to 512GB $30 less than Apple want.
Shop around a bit and although 16GB/512GB or (on $2k+ machines) 32GB/1TB isn't standard, it's not hard to find.... and although comparable laptops won't have upgradeable RAM (because LPDDR has to be soldered in) it's fairly common to find M.2 SSD (and SSD's really, really shouldn't be soldered in in anything larger than a tablet). Apple Silicon has made it hard to do like-for-like comparisons, but where you can work out the incremental cost for RAM and SSD upgrades, Apple are still at the high end - and non-upgradeable.
The frustration is that RAM and (fast) SSD (until you get >> 1TB ) just aren't that expensive, so even if you might not need 16GB/512GB right now it shouldn't be so expensive to give yourself a bit of headroom. If I were assembling a PC today I'd regard anything less than 32GB/1TB as a false economy (it's usually a case of looking at the RAM/SSD prices and picking out the sweet spot just before you start paying a premium for the latest, highest-density chips).
If Apple were charging retail prices for SSD and RAM (note: retail - i.e. including a fair profit for the retailer) making 8GB/256GB machines probably wouldn't be worth the extra logistics of having multiple models.
There's also some aggravating factors for Apple: like total non-upgradeability (nice 8GB/256GB Mac there, shame if you were to run out of space... that'll be $400 protection money please) and that some people don't have easy access to the Apple online store or a larger dealer making it difficult to get the BTO options.
OT, but that "nobody needs more than 640K" meme get's taken out of context. The original 8086 processor could potentially address 1024K of memory, but certain design features of the original IBM PC limited the max RAM to 640K. So that's where the 640K figure came from.
"640K ought to be enough for anyone" may or may not have been said by Bill Gates - but if so he now has 120 billion good justifications for defending the IBM PC's design flaws.
Unfortunately, that 640K limit got baked into PC software and operating systems and caused problems for years afterwards.... but that's what you get when a mediocre, proprietary computer design becomes the industry standard just because nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
Exactly, SSDs have longer shell life.
People use HDDs for bulk storage because HDDs are larger in size and for storage applications speed doesn't matter. And they use enterprise HDDs because consumer HDD reliability is a joke. What is even the point you are trying to make?
Yes, the prices for RAM and SSD upgrades are very expensive on Macs, but it was my decision whether or not to pay and buy.
Btw, yes, NASes over 10GBase-T can be a very good solution for storage.
Btw, yes, NASes over 10GBase-T can be a very good solution for storage.
So first of all, your $100 drive is in no ways as fast as what the M#s have.
Beyond that, I agree that the both RAM and SSD upgrade prices could be lower. And regarding SSDs, the Studio has already demonstrated that using removable SSDs doesn't come with a performance penalty that is noticeable. Apple could have easily used them on their laptops without compromising internal space; even if you need Apple to replace the part, replacing the SSD would be cheaper than replacing the entire M# logic board.
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See here a 1TB SSD from Samsung that is comparable to what is in the M1 Max (which does 7000MB/s) for only $150. And this is twice as fast as what is the M1.
980 PRO PCIe® 4.0 NVMe™ SSD 1TB Memory & Storage - MZ-V8P1T0B/AM | Samsung US
Discover the latest features and innovations available in the 980 PRO PCIe® 4.0 NVMe™ SSD 1TB. Find the perfect Memory & Storage for you!
Apple have been selling overpriced and slow SSD's for the M1.
I checked last week for 1 TB SSD that is at the same speed as the M1 and it was indeed $100.
The extra costs are really important for sure.
This is why the MacBook Pro 2021 is just perfect in my eyes: whatever you choose the 14" or 16" model, you get started with 16GB RAM and 512GB storage. Many Mac customers won't even need more! It is perfectly balanced: neither too much nor too little.
This is why the MacBook Pro 2021 is just perfect in my eyes: whatever you choose the 14" or 16" model, you get started with 16GB RAM and 512GB storage. Many Mac customers won't even need more! It is perfectly balanced: neither too much nor too little.
Keep in mind what Apple is trying to achieve here.
Their goal is to make state-of-the-art technology accessible to as many people as possible, passing along the savings achieved by new processes and optimizations for the betterment of society and furthering of educational opportunity and egalitarianism.
Oh wait, literally none of that is true. It’s just possible that their actual goal is to charge as much money as the market will bear so that they can possess a larger share of societal wealth than others around them… and there’s nothing illegal about that. I do think there’s a certain immorality to it all, but that change should come from within, rather than being imposed by government. Wouldn’t that be something? A company like Apple deciding to take a little less from customers, give a little more to employees rather than 10s of millions to execs because it’s the right thing to do?
Their goal is to make state-of-the-art technology accessible to as many people as possible, passing along the savings achieved by new processes and optimizations for the betterment of society and furthering of educational opportunity and egalitarianism.
Oh wait, literally none of that is true. It’s just possible that their actual goal is to charge as much money as the market will bear so that they can possess a larger share of societal wealth than others around them… and there’s nothing illegal about that. I do think there’s a certain immorality to it all, but that change should come from within, rather than being imposed by government. Wouldn’t that be something? A company like Apple deciding to take a little less from customers, give a little more to employees rather than 10s of millions to execs because it’s the right thing to do?
Apple no longer sell laptops with huge internal storage drives for small prices for much the same reason they don't sell laptops with CD's anymore. People generally don't need such things in this day and age. I thought I would miss having a CD in my M1 Air. I don't. I haven't spun a CD or DVD for years now. I still play my vinyl records though, for nostalgic sake.
I'm moving with the times and am getting into cloud storage, and for local external storage for massive Photos and iMovie libraries I use a Samsung T7 SSD (2TB), cost just €280. Check that drive out if you haven't already.
I've had my M1 Air 256GB for over 6 months and still have 148GB spare on the internal. I don't see me using much more than that. For entertainment I use Apple Music, Disney+, Netflix & Primevideo. Yes, I might download some stuff to my local for use on the go, but that gets deleted when I'm done with it. I also have a 64GB 12 mini, I can't see me ever needing more than that. Again, music and photos in the clouds as mobile data plans are as cheap as chips in Belgium as well as free wifi almost everywhere.
Oh, and Apple isn't robbing anyone. No one says you have to buy their products.
I'm moving with the times and am getting into cloud storage, and for local external storage for massive Photos and iMovie libraries I use a Samsung T7 SSD (2TB), cost just €280. Check that drive out if you haven't already.
I've had my M1 Air 256GB for over 6 months and still have 148GB spare on the internal. I don't see me using much more than that. For entertainment I use Apple Music, Disney+, Netflix & Primevideo. Yes, I might download some stuff to my local for use on the go, but that gets deleted when I'm done with it. I also have a 64GB 12 mini, I can't see me ever needing more than that. Again, music and photos in the clouds as mobile data plans are as cheap as chips in Belgium as well as free wifi almost everywhere.
Oh, and Apple isn't robbing anyone. No one says you have to buy their products.
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The top of the line PCIe 4.0 drives perform better & are priced cheaper. This is just Apple being Apple!
As a publicly traded, for-profit company, their first priority should always be to return value to share holders. There's nothing stopping employees from also being shareholders. In which case, they would reap the benefits of higher profitability.
So, I'm looking at a Samsung 980 Pro NVME (PCIe 4) M2 stick with 5000MB/s Write, 7000MB/s read.
500GB: £108
1TB: £158
...so that's £50 for a 500GB difference vs. Apple's £200 per 512GB.
However, the best evidence is Apple's RAM upgrade prices for things like the Intel Mini and recently deceased 27" iMac which use the exact same, bog standard DDR4 SODIMMs that you can buy from Crucial - so no arguments over equivalence - for a fraction of the price. These BTO prices are nothing to do with the actual bill-of-materials. and part of Apple's strategic pricing plan.
As with 128GB SSDs and 4GB RAM - I think we'll see the base specs increase when the RAM/Flash manufacturers relegate the smaller chips to niche-market legacy products, and they end up costing Apple more than the larger chips (...although I'm sure it's only Apple's insane upgrade prices that make it economical to produce the 8GB version of the M1/M2).
Still, no it's not "robbery" and yes, we don't have to buy Apple - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't complain.
And, fully agree, non-replaceable SSD just shouldn't happen.
Upgrades have always been expensive but actually cost less now when adjusted for today and inflation.
When I bought my mid-2014 13" MBP...
128GB > 256GB $200
128GB > 512GB $500
8GB > 16GB RAM $200
There was a 1TB BTO option but I can't find the price for that.
RAM was soldered, but the SSD was upgradable so the high price of those upgrades were largely irrelevant to me.
Wrong - thats the view point of the bad actors from within Apple. Their first priority should be to follow the laws and be ethical in the process of creating value for those shareholders… by being a good corporate citizen, not bow to the whims of the Wall Street parasites. What Apple is doing now, with this is, anti-competitive and monopolistic. It pains me to see an iconic company that is beloved by so many for the products they have produced over the years to behave in such a deplorable anti-consumer way. They want to go around and portray themselves as being a privacy advocate, a supporter of clean energy, a force to help thwart governments overreach around the world, and on, and on; all things we as Apple fans support, only to blow up that image of being a good company, by being so openly and directly against consumer protection and rights… and at the end of the day, that’s what this is… a way to gouge the consumers of their products while at same time preventing another company from coming in and being able to compete against them.
Exactly. I’ve got a base storage M1 Air and absolutely no desire for more storage (think I have like 170gb free) because I literally never think about it.
Extra storage would be wasted.
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