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Apple killed my interest in ARM and Macs
- Thread starter LambdaTheImpossible
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Microsoft has never transitioned their OS ecosystem to a new chip architecture. If they don’t build a golden bridge equivalent to Rosetta, they’ll lose their entire back catalog of Windows compatible software. Which means the platform lock-in is gone and ChromeOS can overtake Windows on ARM in a weekend coding session. This may well kill Microsoft as a company. The availability of powerful and energy-efficient ARM-based desktop processors is an earthquake in the PC world and no reason for concern on a Mac. Worst case, Apple needs to lower their prices! 😂
Microsoft DOES have a Rosetta like layer. I think it may only work for 32-bit x86 Windows programs, though, and not 64-bit, x86-64. So it should work for the real old legacy software, but the more recent legacy software is an issue.
Nice rant, but it based upon 2 major flaws.
1, that microsoft is more trust worth than Apple.
2, that your time is worthless.
You made a custom hackintosh but you failed to calculate the time you took to put it together, troubleshoot and continuous troubleshooting as you use it thru the years. All of which add up to thousand of dollars over the lifetime of your computer, while you may see your time as worthless, I do not. My time is extremely value, if i can save time by buying off the shelf product that just works, then I save money since I am not wasting my time.
And their is no amount of money on this earth that would ever make me trust microsoft. Contana is a virus, period, anyone who says otherwise is drinking the microsoft coolaid.
1, that microsoft is more trust worth than Apple.
2, that your time is worthless.
You made a custom hackintosh but you failed to calculate the time you took to put it together, troubleshoot and continuous troubleshooting as you use it thru the years. All of which add up to thousand of dollars over the lifetime of your computer, while you may see your time as worthless, I do not. My time is extremely value, if i can save time by buying off the shelf product that just works, then I save money since I am not wasting my time.
And their is no amount of money on this earth that would ever make me trust microsoft. Contana is a virus, period, anyone who says otherwise is drinking the microsoft coolaid.
I have ran hackintoshes for years at a time without any issue. With Open Core and the right hardware, they are almost as easy to create as a linux box.
The rest of that is hilarious. Cortana was too inept to be a virus, but yes, Microsoft is increasingly being sketchy.
Still, a hackintosh is super cake walk now.
It works with x86-x64... Ever since Windows 11 came out.
Windows on Arm documentation
Learn more about running Windows on PCs powered by Arm processors. Find guidance on how to build Windows apps for Arm64 devices or iteratively update your existing Windows app to take advantage of Arm64 native capabilities.
learn.microsoft.com
Personal experience, most stuff works well, but there are the occasion app that wont work at all...
Keyword is "Almost" as easy as creating a linux box.
I unpack my mac and press 1 button to turn it on, nothing gets more simple then that.
Hackintosh are basically opposite of everything that makes MacOS so good, its a streamlined OS with drivers only provided by the vendor which in this case is apple, the second you add 3rd party whatever, you drop stability and therefore the entire propose of using macOS.
dont get me wrong, I own a windows gaming PC i built even went full water cooling at a time, but it ended up not being worth my time and effort to build and support. Ive had an apple account since apple was giving away ipods on the hour every hour thru pepsi, never looked back.
I think Apple Silicon is best thing that happened to Macs since x86-64 transition, but to each their own.
Performance per watt is something that x86-64 will never be able to match. Entire day of usage without even thinking about battery, leave in the morning, charge when you come home late evening. That was only a dream not long ago
Performance per watt is something that x86-64 will never be able to match. Entire day of usage without even thinking about battery, leave in the morning, charge when you come home late evening. That was only a dream not long ago
“Most stuff works well, but the occasional app won’t work at all”. That makes a lot of sense, I’m not really surprised. That’s pretty par for the course for Windows backwards compatibility. Microsoft bends over backwards to support previous software, but there’s always that one program that was persnickety even in its day. (For me, it’s Sonic Stage for my HiMD player. It works in Windows 10, but it certainly doesn’t want to!)It works with x86-x64... Ever since Windows 11 came out.
Windows on Arm documentation
Learn more about running Windows on PCs powered by Arm processors. Find guidance on how to build Windows apps for Arm64 devices or iteratively update your existing Windows app to take advantage of Arm64 native capabilities.learn.microsoft.com
Personal experience, most stuff works well, but there are the occasion app that wont work at all...
I think people dont understand the concept of why arm is better then x86. x86 is a long instruction set, with more and more instructions added. A great example of these instructions are MMX or SSE.
This creates a long pipeline in the cpu, longer pipelines means less work per clockcycle. The idea behind arm was drop the old or custom pipelines and have a simple quick pipeline, this is where the watt per performance comes from, Arm simply have a more efficient pipeline.
The crazy thing about ARM, was when they tested the first processor and it was reporting 0 watts being used. It was just crazy how efficient arm was from day 1.
What made M1 so powerful wasnt the chip, it was the translation to X86 instructions in real time, so clock per clock arm is able to do x86 more efficient. Even Snapdragons new processor wont be anywhere near what M1 was because it lacks that software support.
Hope this help clarify things abit.
Coldfusion does a way better job explain all the puzzle piece that made m1 successful, it wasnt just the chip, its an entire ecosystem that apple has been developing for years.
This creates a long pipeline in the cpu, longer pipelines means less work per clockcycle. The idea behind arm was drop the old or custom pipelines and have a simple quick pipeline, this is where the watt per performance comes from, Arm simply have a more efficient pipeline.
The crazy thing about ARM, was when they tested the first processor and it was reporting 0 watts being used. It was just crazy how efficient arm was from day 1.
What made M1 so powerful wasnt the chip, it was the translation to X86 instructions in real time, so clock per clock arm is able to do x86 more efficient. Even Snapdragons new processor wont be anywhere near what M1 was because it lacks that software support.
Hope this help clarify things abit.
Coldfusion does a way better job explain all the puzzle piece that made m1 successful, it wasnt just the chip, its an entire ecosystem that apple has been developing for years.
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For what it’s worth, I remember the day I realized Intel was doomed. It was back in 2009, actually. I was working as an intern at a company that used 68k and VIA x86 processors for embedded applications, particularly for LED signs (I would be surprised if they’re not using ARM for some signs these days, between the performance and the heat/efficiency). One day, I had to do heat testing on an Intel Atom processor, and I couldn’t believe how much heat it was putting out relative to the VIA x86 chips! It was then that I knew mobile x86/Intel Atom was a complete non-starter, and it was obvious enough to me back then that mobile was the future. But ARM caught up to desktop performance quicker than I would have expected.
Intel was doomed the day they failed to realize the scale of phones and CPUs in them. By claiming phones or mobile devices would never be to a scale of desktop, intel failed to realize the future.
And that's a VERY good thing to me. Apple not doing it gives me great concern, so all all my Mac purchases are for personal and home use.
Of course there's the odd app that doesn't work, same for any OS, undocumented API calls, self modifying code, programming taking advantage of bugs in certain levels of hardware. That just happens and will always happen, and we developers still do it.
They’re two different philosophies. As a developer myself, I’m more partial to Apple’s, breaking changes have to happen on occasion. I’m gonna change the API of the library if and when it makes sense to, especially if the needs of my library change (and, of course, I either use SemVar or write the only code that calls the library). But I also get Microsoft’s approach to backwards compatibility, given all the unmaintained custom enterprise-y programs on Windows.And that's a VERY good thing to me. Apple not doing it gives me great concern, so all all my Mac purchases are for personal and home use.
Of course there's the odd app that doesn't work, same for any OS, undocumented API calls, self modifying code, programming taking advantage of bugs in certain levels of hardware. That just happens and will always happen, and we developers still do it.
That's me.
We have budget limitations since we don't actually make money, as we're a cost center, for the company, so we have to have a darn good reason to do major changes. (like they wanted changes is the best reason to ask for the resources to do it.) Microsoft, and companies like IBM are very friendly to our needs. It may not be the best way to do things all the time, I agree, but it is what it is.
Apple also was part of the initial creation of ARM, something OP forgot I think
It was Acorn, Apple, and VLSI
There isn’t even a proper understanding of what future Windows is supposed to be. It’s just one failed experiment after another. This makes it much easier to just keep running old Windows to maintain compatibility. And that’s why the adoption rate for new versions of Windows keeps shrinking.
Microsoft is not able to sell their existing customers a FREE upgrade to Windows 11.
No brand can cater to all users.
As such Apple has decided it is better suited to serve users other than your use case.
This is why Apple never bothered with high-end gamers as other brands have the business model & tech to do so.
The adoption rate for Windows 11 is lower because most computers can’t run Windows 11 as Microsoft significantly increased the minimum requirements, cutting off most computers that are older than a few years (mostly TPM and RAM, although these limitations can be bypassed). I prefer macOS, but Windows is better than it’s ever been. Most computers aren’t even Windows 11 compatible for an upgrade. Windows isn’t dying. Microsoft just decided to take the obsolescence approach of Apple.
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It crashes a lot less than it did historically. But for user experience I strongly disagree.
I don’t think Windows can die. The most dire scenario is that it ends up like COBOL, relegated to the service of legacy systems that can’t be replaced. And even then it’s unlikely.
The Oct 2021 Windows 11 soft min req are:
- 14nm Intel 8th gen chips released after Sep 2017
- 12nm AMD 2nd gen Ryzen chips released after Apr 2018.
In 2016 Intel stated that PC replacement cycle is 5-6 years. So that trend started as early as 2010.
After Oct 2025 it is likely those buying into Win11 or Win12 PCs will at least buy a PC made from 7-8yo compatible parts. Then continue to use it until 2031.
By 2031 that's 13-14 year old parts in a PC bought after Oct 2025.
Be aware that over 4 of 5 iPhone/Android/Windows/Mac/etc worldwide are 0-6 years old.
Lesser than 1 of 10 of those devices are over 10 years old.
It isn't a problem as big as you think it is.
The reason why it is taking "long" for more PCs to run Win11 is likely from Win11 turning 3 years old last month. I would not be surprised that most Win11 PCs had it installed by default.
Microsoft would likely increase its forced migration of Win10 PCs to Win11 by 2025. This would be months before Win10's EOL by Oct 2025.
By Oct 2028 it is hopeful that Win11 + Win12 = >95.5% of all Windows versions worldwide.
Microsoft forcing Win10 upgrades is partly why we do not get headlines of Windows viruses & malware as frequently as a decade ago. Built-in Microsoft Defender improved the reputation of the platform further.
For the <4.5% of all pre-2015 Windows PCs using older than Win10 OSes... those computers are more than 8 years old with users who are too hard up to do further business with.
Microsoft doesn't care about them as that user base is too few to be an effective source of virus or malware infection.
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Counterpoints:
1. My M1-Pro MBP has been really, really great with zero issues for a 1st generation product.
2. When it comes time to upgrade I'll just buy a lightly used computer which will negate any high costs associated with Apple hardware. For example, I got a really nice, 1TB 13" iPad Pro with pencil and magic keyboard for the cost of the base 13" iPad Pro.
3. While the yearly processor improvements may not be earth shapperting, I generally keep my Macs for at least five years so the M1 to M5 jump will be huge.
4. No MacOS update has broken any software I use.
5. I've replaced batteries, fans, trackpads, and screens on Intel MacBooks; only the batteries were involved but since Apple switched to adhesive pull tape instead of glue it's a pretty simple process. Just remove the bottom panel, unplug the battery, pulled the tape, put the new battery in, and put the bottom plate on.
6. I have my previous MBP as a backup incase my current MBP is down for repairs.
7. I don't need a separate desktop when Apple's laptops are as powerful as they, even while unplugged on battery.
8. Space Black would be a premium color if it required the M3-Max, but since you can get it on the base M3-Pro it's not really premium.
9. Every time I use my work-issued Thinkpad, I hug my MBP's trackpad.
I remain very happy with my Apple products.
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