Apple killed my interest in ARM and Macs

[MapleBeercules]

There isn’t even a proper understanding of what future Windows is supposed to be. It’s just one failed experiment after another. This makes it much easier to just keep running old Windows to maintain compatibility. And that’s why the adoption rate for new versions of Windows keeps shrinking.

View attachment 2310179
Microsoft is not able to sell their existing customers a FREE upgrade to Windows 11.

This is easy to explain. Windows 7 was a true operating system giving its users full control of the hardware it ran on. Windows 10 changed all that, it wasnt an operating system for you to control your hardware, it was a gateway into your home that microsoft can exploit. I lost trust in Microsoft when I spent over 2k on my 6950x (j batch too) that I had overclocked stable at 4.5ghz on all 10 cores at 1.35v (ya it was 2016, back then this was fast ) and microsoft put out a DLL that prevented any overclocking of x99 platform... I had to roll back to a previous dll... I'll never trust microsoft again.

 

[MRMSFC]

This is easy to explain. Windows 7 was a true operating system giving its users full control of the hardware it ran on. Windows 10 changed all that, it wasnt an operating system for you to control your hardware, it was a gateway into your home that microsoft can exploit.

Adding to this:

Back in the stone ages when I was a teenage boy, I (naturally) ended up on shady websites that installed one of those malware toolbar programs on my Vista laptop. The kind that changed default programs, put pop ups in the alerts and in the browser and was hard to get rid of.

Terribly annoying experience.

Anyway, fast forward to the release of Windows 10 and seeing Microsoft pulling the exact same garbage (Bing, Cortana and Edge), but baked into the OS, made me decide to switch permanently.

And I have looked back too, I use 10 at my job every day and something new every week manages to make me happy I went Mac all those years ago. It hasn’t always been sunshine and roses but I don’t regret it in the slightest.

 

[kc9hzn]

There isn’t even a proper understanding of what future Windows is supposed to be. It’s just one failed experiment after another. This makes it much easier to just keep running old Windows to maintain compatibility. And that’s why the adoption rate for new versions of Windows keeps shrinking.

View attachment 2310179
Microsoft is not able to sell their existing customers a FREE upgrade to Windows 11.

It doesn’t help that Windows 11 (despite really being just a fairly minor upgrade to Windows 10) discontinued support for a lot of older hardware.

 

[kc9hzn]

The adoption rate for Windows 11 is lower because most computers can’t run Windows 11 as Microsoft significantly increased the minimum requirements, cutting off most computers that are older than a few years (mostly TPM and RAM, although these limitations can be bypassed). I prefer macOS, but Windows is better than it’s ever been. Most computers aren’t even Windows 11 compatible for an upgrade. Windows isn’t dying. Microsoft just decided to take the obsolescence approach of Apple.

I dunno, the Windows 11 update cut off hardware that’s newer than Apple’s typical cutoff. (Apple’s rolling cutoff typically being 5-7 years.)

 

[ArkSingularity]

I dunno, the Windows 11 update cut off hardware that’s newer than Apple’s typical cutoff. (Apple’s rolling cutoff typically being 5-7 years.)

Yea, it was basically a three year cutoff. What's worse is that the 7th gen CPUs that Microsoft cut off were basically identical to the 8th gen ones (literally the exact same microarchitecture for coffee lake and kaby lake R), so the cutoff was pretty much arbitrary.

(Microsoft had explanations on why they were supposedly technically necessary, but these were pretty easily debunked).

 

[AlixSPQR]

New Macs have to be thrown away if anything breaks. That's not environmentally friendly, to say the least. When people like dosdude try to repair them they are met with obstacles that Apple put up in new versions of Configurator. I'm not buying into that ecosystem. But Apple doesn't want people like me as a customer anyway, I've been using Macs since 1990, so they're done with me. A forgotten era. They are facing newer generations who are eager to dance to their tune. Linux, here I come.

 

[darngooddesign]

Don't even get me started on Apple keyboards. They are garbage. As is the key combination stuff in macOS. My twisted deformed fingers are blessed with a quick recovery on windows. I barely even need a mouse there now.

As for keyboards, I bought a Cherry Stream TKL and it's a lot better than anything Apple have produced and is wired so no more dead keyboard, bluetooth crapping out and lag, all problems I've suffered with the Apple one. And it was £22 on amazon so when I next spill my coffee in it, meh. And the ThinkPad built in keyboard is a much better layout.

I have two work-issued Thinkpads, even after using them more daily for several years I still make significantly fewer typos on my M1 MBP. My Mac's trackpad and keyboard are superior to me.

Yes I know you can buy third party keyboards for Apple stuff.

If you know that you can get nice 3rd party keyboards for the Mac then the Cherry Stream being better than Apple keyboards isn't the differentiator you think it is. Kind of weird you didn't even get a good used USB keyboard for your Macs.

 

[darngooddesign]

New Macs have to be thrown away if anything breaks. That's not environmentally friendly, to say the least. When people like dosdude try to repair them they are met with obstacles that Apple put up in new versions of Configurator. I'm not buying into that ecosystem. But Apple doesn't want people like me as a customer anyway, I've been using Macs since 1990, so they're done with me. A forgotten era. They are facing newer generations who are eager to dance to their tune. Linux, here I come.

Well that's simply not true.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Well that's simply not true.

In some cases it is. If you don't have AppleCare and something breaks, many repairs are simply too expensive to really be cost affordable.

 

[KenkoPa]

I dunno, the Windows 11 update cut off hardware that’s newer than Apple’s typical cutoff.​

The Oct 2021 Windows 11 soft min req are:

• 14nm Intel 8th gen chips released after Sep 2017
• 12nm AMD 2nd gen Ryzen chips released after Apr 2018.

I think it likely that 2024 Windows 12 will harden the min requirements to that.

By then Intel 8th gen will be 7yo while AMD 2nd gen Ryzen will be 6yo.

It is a quality of life improvement. A complaint with 2007 Windows Vista was that its overhead is so high that only 2007 high-end Intel chips & dGPUs could run it in a high quality manner.

(Apple’s rolling cutoff typically being 5-7 years.)

macOS Intel version​	Latest update​	Final update​	iMac​	Macbook Pro​	Macbook Air​	Mac Pro​	Mac mini​	iMac Pro​	Macbook​
2025 macOS 16​	To Be Released​	2028​	2020​	2020​	2020​	2019​	-​	?​	-​
2024 macOS 15​	To Be Released​	2027​	2019​	2019​	2019​	2019​	-​	2017​	-​
2023 Sonoma​	Nov 2023​	2026​	2019​	2018​	2018​	2019​	2018​	2017​	-​
2022 Ventura​	Nov 2023​	2025​	2017​	2017​	2018​	2019​	2018​	2017​	2017​
2021 Monterey​	Oct 2023​	2024​	2015​	2015​	2015​	2013​	2014​	2017​	2016​
2020 Big Sur​	Sep 2023​	2023​	2014​	2013​	2013​	2013​	2014​	2017​	2015​
2019 Catalina​	Jul 2022​	2022​	2012​	2012​	2012​	2013​	2012​	2017​	2015​
2018 Mojave​	Jul 2021​	2021​	2012​	2012​	2012​	2013​	2012​	2017​	2015​
Less than 4-8% Macs online​	---------​	------​	2011​	2011​	2011​	2012​	-----​	----​	2012​
2017 High Sierra​	Nov 2020​	2020​	2009​	2010​	2010​	2010​	2010​	2017​	2009​
2016 Sierra​	Sep 2019​	2019​	2009​	2010​	2010​	2010​	2010​	-​	2009​
2015 El Capitan​	Jul 2018​	2018​	2007​	2007​	2008​	2008​	2009​	-​	2008​
2014 Yosemite​	Jul 2017​	2017​	2007​	2007​	2008​	2008​	2009​	-​	2008​
2013 Mavericks​	Jul 2016​	2016​	2007​	2007​	2008​	2008​	2009​	-​	2008​
2012 Mountain Lion​	Aug 2015​	2015​	2007​	2007​	2008​	2008​	2009​	-​	2008​
2007 Leopard​	Aug 2009​	2009​	2003​	2002​	-​	2001​	2005​	-​	2003​
2005 Tiger​	Nov 2007​	2007​	1999​	2000​	-​	1999​	2005​	-​	2000​

 

[AlixSPQR]

Well that's simply not true.

It's both true and common, but I suppose denying it is necessary if you feel Mac is your future.

In some cases it is. If you don't have AppleCare and something breaks, many repairs are simply too expensive to really be cost affordable.

Precisely.

It would be unfair to point out that it might be technically possible given certain circumstances, knowledge, experience, and equipment. In most cases, the costs can't be motivated.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Well that's simply not true.

How is that not true? Look at iFixit's take on macs. They are not good in this regard. They are definitely not upgradable.

 

[MRMSFC]

New Macs have to be thrown away if anything breaks. That's not environmentally friendly, to say the least. When people like dosdude try to repair them they are met with obstacles that Apple put up in new versions of
Configurator.

Speaking from personal experience, the computers I’ve had break roughly 7-10 years after manufacture. That’s roughly the point where the machine is past its usable lifetime. I too would like to see better repairability, but most of the “solutions” proposed by forumers here are terribly braindead.

I'm not buying into that ecosystem. But Apple doesn't want people like me as a customer anyway, I've been using Macs since 1990, so they're done with me. A forgotten era. They are facing newer generations who are eager to dance to their tune. Linux, here I come.

Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. And you’re welcome back anytime.

How is that not true? Look at iFixit's take on macs. They are not good in this regard. They are definitely not upgradable.

Nor are they unique in that. Some things being better excuses than others.

 

[kc9hzn]

I have two work-issued Thinkpads, even after using them more daily for several years I still make significantly fewer typos on my M1 MBP. My Mac's trackpad and keyboard are superior to me.


If you know that you can get nice 3rd party keyboards for the Mac then the Cherry Stream being better than Apple keyboards isn't the differentiator you think it is. Kind of weird you didn't even get a good used USB keyboard for your Macs.

Seems like the OP hates the Command Key. Ooh boy, he’d be swearing at my Happy Hacking Keyboard, with the Control key where CapsLock typically is. (I bought it for the size and quiet, but Topre is growing on me. It probably won’t replace other mechanical switches for me, but I’m perfectly happy with it.) I do get the feeling that the OP is really throwing out every minor inconvenience he ever had with Macs. But yes, as you point out, there are loads of Mac keyboards, and Apple’s keyboards are hardly the worst out there. (The keyboards at work are terrible, hence the Happy Hacking Keyboard!)

 

[AlixSPQR]

Speaking from personal experience, the computers I’ve had break roughly 7-10 years after manufacture. That’s roughly the point where the machine is past its usable lifetime.

You've been lucky, that's all. A common reason for throwing a Mac in the bin is that the soldered-on-SSD suddenly dies. Only real experts can replace them. See here.

 

[MRMSFC]

You've been lucky, that's all. A common reason for throwing a Mac in the bin is that the soldered-on-SSD suddenly dies. Only real experts can replace them. See here.

Hardly consider myself lucky. It wasn’t the SSDs (well, hard drives) that failed, it usually was some motherboard component or it just got too slow to be usable. And I’m well aware that the components are soldered.

I’m sympathetic to your point but looking at the larger picture I feel I’m getting more than what’s being taken with the Apple Silicon Macs.

 

[thebayareaisliving]

Apple is now considered a failure as a company. Timapple should be ashamed.

 

[gpat]

HERE IS AN APPLE SILICON KILLER.

Dude I'd like to take this seriously but it's just laughable, and I used to dabble in Hackintoshes in the C2D days.

 

[Hopscotcher]

Dude I'd like to take this seriously but it's just laughable, and I used to dabble in Hackintoshes in the C2D days.

I used to make them all the time. But Hackintoshes are a joke now since Apple moved to ARM. They're not worth the constant issues.

 

[120FPS]

Well that's simply not true.

That is the way they are designed, Apple replaces the internal board if something goes wrong. There was a big issue with NAND storage that meant the entire mac was not functional and you could not even boot from an external drive.

 

[120FPS]

Speaking from personal experience, the computers I’ve had break roughly 7-10 years after manufacture. That’s roughly the point where the machine is past its usable lifetime. I too would like to see better repairability, but most of the “solutions” proposed by forumers here are terribly braindead.

Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. And you’re welcome back anytime.


Nor are they unique in that. Some things being better excuses than others.

You know the condescending tone is not helpful to anyone and ruins a community of people trying to get a better computing experience and fighting for consumer rights.

 

[darngooddesign]

That is the way they are designed, Apple replaces the internal board if something goes wrong. There was a big issue with NAND storage that meant the entire mac was not functional and you could not even boot from an external drive.

The claim was that if anything breaks you have to throw the entire computer out, but here you are saying that the board can be replaced. You can replace other components as well like the trackpad, fans, battery, speakers, ports, etc. That being said, the MacStudio has proven that there is no performance penalty to the SSD being a separate component so I welcome any regulations which force Apple to make SSDs replaceable.

 

[Gudi]

In some cases it is. If you don't have AppleCare and something breaks, many repairs are simply too expensive to really be cost affordable.

There are billions of iPhones out there, all with SoCs and soldered chips. Now tell me about all the anecdotal evidence of worn out SSDs and other hardware failures on the logic board itself versus shattered screens, broken charging ports, dented aluminium frames, large bezels not looking fashionable enough anymore or FOMO on a new camera feature‽ You've got to address problems by their order of probability and the most likely scenario on a mobile computer is a dying battery after a few years of use.

 

[MRMSFC]

You know the condescending tone is not helpful to anyone and ruins a community of people trying to get a better computing experience and fighting for consumer rights.

I apologize, the “I’ve been an Apple user for 40 years and walked uphill in the snow both ways to buy a Mac Plus, and now stuff has changed and I’m unhappy!” line is particularly annoying. Especially when all nuance goes out the window when talking about computers.

For example, the changes to the core architecture of the Mac has changed with Apple Silicon. Yes, compatibility with x86 was lost.

In comes the standard brainrot line “Apple is just making everything captive, like iOS!” Completely ignoring the benefits to the transition to Apple Silicon in favor of a half-baked conspiracy theory.

Benefits like having great performance while not being a space heater.

In any case, I’ll try to keep the snark to a minimum in the future.

 

[MRMSFC]

The claim was that if anything breaks you have to throw the entire computer out, but here you are saying that the board can be replaced. You can replace other components as well like the trackpad, fans, battery, speakers, ports, etc. That being said, the MacStudio has proven that there is no performance penalty to the SSD being a separate component so I welcome any regulations which force Apple to make SSDs replaceable.

In my opinion regulation forcing batteries to be replaceable (by the user preferably, or at least by any shop without restrictions by the manufacturer) in any device shipped with a battery is reasonable and necessary.

And the banning of deliberately blocking third party repairs and replacement parts falls under proposed right to repair regulations already.

Maybe a requirement that any device be bootable from a replacement or external storage device would be good to throw in.

Just so long as any regulations allows for broad innovation while not infringing on the rights of the users or businesses to repair their devices.