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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,517
19,664
The thing is built on top of Qt. Apple break Qt regularly with undocumented API changes and weirdness inside regularly.

Ah, well, there’s your problem. QT is a horrible framework and frankly I’m shocked that it still not dead. As to QT breaking, there are plenty of cross-platform frameworks that seem to be doing just fine. Hell, my custom Python UI framework I wrote 16 years ago still works on modern macOS.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,517
19,664
They rely on those probably because the feature they want is not supported by Apple with published API, and there is no alternative. This just put them between A rock and a hard place: heavy maintenance but more feature rich software vs limited software but light maintenance.

In my experience devs who rely on undocumented behavior are simply devs who don’t want to do things properly. It doesn’t take that much effort.

A big factor in maintenance is the quality of your architecture. If you design things properly, your maintenance effort will be lower.
 

floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,234
Earth
Edit: I have a second set of problems I'll raise elsewhere in a few days on iOS ecosystem and what I consider to be the most abhorrently painful to use computer there is: The iPad Pro.
(self-proclaimed) artist here, the iPad Pro is a lifesaver.

Though of course if you aren't into the artsy stuff then it probably would be as useful as a brick :|
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,763
In my experience devs who rely on undocumented behavior are simply devs who don’t want to do things properly. It doesn’t take that much effort.

A big factor in maintenance is the quality of your architecture. If you design things properly, your maintenance effort will be lower.
I always believe there are more to any story, and things are not really black white level simple. It is true that doing things properly can generally yield lower maintenance overhead. However, there will be instances where doing properly simply isn’t an option and everyone involved in must improvise.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,517
19,664
I always believe there are more to any story, and things are not really black white level simple. It is true that doing things properly can generally yield lower maintenance overhead. However, there will be instances where doing properly simply isn’t an option and everyone involved in must improvise.

That is true as well. At the same time, I can't really see how this applies to an UI framework like QT which does it's drawing itself. These kind of frameworks don't work with the system, they work agains the system. Some folks might insist on wearing socks on their heads, and that is their right, but I just don't see why the tailor should be the one to blame if the sock rips.
 

Mcdevidr

macrumors 6502a
Nov 27, 2013
793
368
1. Custom Built Pc pain in the butt.
2. No thanks. While the thinkpad ain’t bad the 12th gen intel chips have not lived up to their promise in lower power envelopes.
3. Android phone ain’t better no matter how you cut the cake. Give me 1hz iPhone over any android. Thank you.

Anyways most this stuff is just opinion. For me a custom PC while it would play my games better than a Mac, I always go back to Mac because of the quietness and ease of use of having my game wherever I want with 5 hours of battery no less. Windows laptops I’ve tried so many. Either too heavy or too loud or both. The low battery life I could maybe deal with but the other things I can not. As far as an android phone. Just too connected with apple stuff to even consider a change at the moment as I use iCloud and my iPad for reading sheet music and storing several hundred gb of sheets. The things just work well together. Anyways this my two cents on it all.
 

Joe Dohn

macrumors 6502a
Jul 6, 2020
840
748
Especially if you don't need performance and are happy to sacrifice quality/ergonomy to save some money.

Why do people here always equal x86 devices to cheap and/or lacking in quality / ergonomics?

If you are willing to pay extra, there are x86 devices out there which not only have awesome quality, but can have outstanding ergonics and power.

For example, if you a comfortable keyboard, you can get a Razer mechanical keyboard, which will be far better build quality than anything Apple offers – of course, the rainbow lights are tacky, but you can turn them off.
 

Joe Dohn

macrumors 6502a
Jul 6, 2020
840
748
1. Custom Built Pc pain in the butt.
No, it's not. Especially if you get mid to high-end parts.
What could get annoying is building a custom PC that's 100% silent, but even that is possible.

However, if you design it right and are ok with a compromise, you can definitely design a PC isn't completely silent, but has low noise, which will be more or less masked by the environment.

I personally think you can get some very interesting smaller, no-noise, compact PC. But custom PCs still have their place because they give a far better "bang for the buck" and are much easier to repair / customize (and can get better cooling / performance to boot, because they're larger – so, better airflow).
 

LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
No, it's not. Especially if you get mid to high-end parts.
What could get annoying is building a custom PC that's 100% silent, but even that is possible.

However, if you design it right and are ok with a compromise, you can definitely design a PC isn't completely silent, but has low noise, which will be more or less masked by the environment.

I personally think you can get some very interesting smaller, no-noise, compact PC. But custom PCs still have their place because they give a far better "bang for the buck" and are much easier to repair / customize (and can get better cooling / performance to boot, because they're larger – so, better airflow).

Exactly that. The one I built is very near silent even when cranking full speed for hours with GPU going too. The power supply doesn't spin up the fans until you hit 340 watts and the GPU has a quiet mode.
 

LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
Why do people here always equal x86 devices to cheap and/or lacking in quality / ergonomics?

If you are willing to pay extra, there are x86 devices out there which not only have awesome quality, but can have outstanding ergonics and power.

For example, if you a comfortable keyboard, you can get a Razer mechanical keyboard, which will be far better build quality than anything Apple offers – of course, the rainbow lights are tacky, but you can turn them off.
Don't even get me started on Apple keyboards. They are garbage. As is the key combination stuff in macOS. My twisted deformed fingers are blessed with a quick recovery on windows. I barely even need a mouse there now.

As for keyboards, I bought a Cherry Stream TKL and it's a lot better than anything Apple have produced and is wired so no more dead keyboard, bluetooth crapping out and lag, all problems I've suffered with the Apple one. And it was £22 on amazon so when I next spill my coffee in it, meh. And the ThinkPad built in keyboard is a much better layout.

Yes I know you can buy third party keyboards for Apple stuff.
 

LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
(self-proclaimed) artist here, the iPad Pro is a lifesaver.

Though of course if you aren't into the artsy stuff then it probably would be as useful as a brick :|

Yeah for digital art, there is nothing better. I'll give you that.

But my purposes, which are academic note taking via GoodNotes, paper worked out to be better than the supposed gains of doing this electronically. I just dump the notepad sheets in my AIO printer/scanner tray and out pops a PDF.

Fundamentally apart from that it's a crap laptop which you have to buy a really expensive keyboard for and then put up with all the compromises on iOS to boot.
 
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floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,234
Earth
Yeah for digital art, there is nothing better. I'll give you that.

But my purposes, which are academic note taking via GoodNotes, paper worked out to be better than the supposed gains of doing this electronically. I just dump the notepad sheets in my AIO printer/scanner tray and out pops a PDF.

Fundamentally apart from that it's a crap laptop which you have to buy a really expensive keyboard for and then put up with all the compromises on iOS to boot.
Also, yeah, it really isn't a very good computer. I just happen to be both a digital artist and a casual computer user, so the iPad Pro lines up with my needs perfectly.
 

rodjam

macrumors member
Dec 13, 2008
36
37
I think the move to ARM was a good call by Apple, and the architecture is definitely expanding as Qualcomm and others are building their own SOCs and Microsoft expands their support for Windows on ARM. Since the OP mentioned Maxima, an obvious alternative would be to use a Raspberry Pi 5 with their own Linux flavor Raspberry Pi OS, which comes with a full version of Mathematica for FREE. I have used Maxima on various Macs (only the command line from the terminal, though), but I much prefer Mathematica, which runs quite well on a Pi 4 and even better on a Pi 5.
 
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120FPS

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2022
174
206
I understand your frustration.

The chunky unibody MacBook Pros felt like reliable companions that could adapt to my needs. They lasted well until the CPU/GPU became outdated. However, the soldered Intel MacBook Pro proved to be problematic, with recurrent issues and I was stuck with fixed storage. If I wanted to upgrade now and make that computer last I would need a 4TB model, a terrible value proposition compared to what is available elsewhere.

I made the switch to a self-built PC, but I find myself missing the seamless macOS experience, especially in tandem with my Apple devices. This situation has been disappointing and has altered my perception of the company. I no longer speak highly of their products or recommend them. It feels like they’ve veered away from prioritising the customer, a negative shift from the company I held in high regard from 2001 to 2012.
 

4743913

Cancelled
Aug 19, 2020
1,564
3,716
I think the move to ARM was a good call by Apple, and the architecture is definitely expanding as Qualcomm and others are building their own SOCs and Microsoft expands their support for Windows on ARM. Since the OP mentioned Maxima, an obvious alternative would be to use a Raspberry Pi 5 with their own Linux flavor Raspberry Pi OS, which comes with a full version of Mathematica for FREE. I have used Maxima on various Macs (only the command line from the terminal, though), but I much prefer Mathematica, which runs quite well on a Pi 4 and even better on a Pi 5.

this makes me wonder if we can hook a raspberry pi ethernet to usb-c on macbook pro and access it with Screens 4 in macOS.. using the macbook pro as the monitor for a pi that you tote in your bag. does this make sense?
 

rodjam

macrumors member
Dec 13, 2008
36
37
this makes me wonder if we can hook a raspberry pi ethernet to usb-c on macbook pro and access it with Screens 4 in macOS.. using the macbook pro as the monitor for a pi that you tote in your bag. does this make sense?
I haven't tried that; what I do is just hang it via ethernet on my router and ssh -X into it from my Mac which is running XQuartz.
 

Apples Apples Everywhere

macrumors 6502
Jan 4, 2017
302
692
Everyone should choose what works best for them. For me, my M1 computers (9 total) are the nicest computers I've ever owned! We've had zero issues with any of them and certainly they run circles around the Intel Macs I've owned in the past including the 2019 Mac Pro Tower. Watching Intel call their 10nm parts "Intel 7" while using 300+W to reach admittedly high overall performance, I don't envy i9-14900K owners at all. Meanwhile Apple has reached 3nm with M3 but their old M1 computers are still excessive for my needs.
 

MRMSFC

macrumors 6502
Jul 6, 2023
371
381
We have had posts like this that turn out to be (not very well masked) samsung/google advertisements, but this post is legit. The OP has a decent post history and a variety of opinions, joined a few months ago~
Fair enough. I don’t find any arguments convincing and the direct mention of competing devices set off my bs alarm.
 
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LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
Let us know how it goes. Every new solution/paradigm shift is fun and exciting when you first start out, but you may encounter issues down the line you didn't anticipate.
Yeah defeinitely. I'll do a "6 months in" post as well.

I'm 2 months in and have no problems so far.
 
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LambdaTheImpossible

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2023
114
512
😂😂😂 oh yeah, and the Microsoft stuff runs waaaaaayyy more stable and the connections between Android and Microsoft are flawless 😂😂😂

Well I found out it is actually better. Reminders has been seriously buggy POS for me over the last couple of years and don't get me started on Apple Mail which has developed a serious problem recently of completely failing to render emails. I just get a white email and no way of viewing it ever again. This is really embarrassing when communicating with people as they have to resend and it makes me look like an idiot.

The Google stuff is admittedly meh but I mostly disable it and use it to run MS stack things anyway. I certainly don't connect the two things together other than via the cloudy type apps and OneDrive (for photo uploads / backup)

I did the following changes for ref:

Reminders -> Microsoft Todo. Actually really good

Keychain -> Authenticator. Works better on android than iOS

Calendar/Contacts/Mail -> outlook app. Absolutely better than the others.

Notes -> OneNote. They both suck and are buggy so about the same there.

Maps -> I was using OrganicMaps mostly anyway which is the same

Safari -> Edge because it actually syncs with my desktop and unlike chrome actually allows you to block ads (plus on desktop it takes chrome plugins fine and you can turn off all the MS crap easily)

iMessage -> Everyone I know uses WhatsApp anyway so meh

Files -> OneDrive. Meh no better no worse.

Apple Music -> Spotify. Everyone in my family uses Spotify so this is a gain. I don't have to pay for Apple Family AND Spotify Family now.
 
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