Apple killed my interest in ARM and Macs

[EmotionalSnow]

The display is a 400 nit IPS panel at 1920x1200 with 99% sRGB. Which is perfectly adequate for a portable computer.

The SSD is a WD SN770 with a quoted endurance of 1200TBW. Apple do not quote this and the SSD is not removable or replaceable.

As for synthetic benchmarks, meh. It takes only 5% less time to do the same Lightroom import and thumbnail generation as the M1 MBP in real life. That's my main CPU consumer. That's good and a real world metric.

So you complain about Apple for higher prices even though their laptops have better displays? Your laptop is cheaper because it doesn't have the same manufacturing cost, explain to me how that is Apple's fault. Nobody cares if you choose another manufacturer because you don't need the displays Apple is offering and want to save money but spare us the hyperbole please.

 

[Pet3rK]

Edge on Android does not support extensions

That's why my top two browser if Safari and FireFox. I use the latter for Android since it supports extensions.

You might want to check your knowledge on the matter there. You can register it as a password provider on iOS too.

False. Authenticator is listed only as 2FA verification app. Maybe you should check your own knowledge.

Safari I was using AdGuard which is less than adequate.

I am using Safari and free version of 1Blocker. It's been quite a while I've seen ads especially on YouTube and reddit. The ads that can pass through are usually found on certain sites.

thanks to the total inability of my iPhone to actually bother staying connected to my WiFi it'll completely hang if I try and paste.

that's odd. The place I like to hang out doesn't have WiFi signals but it still works. So much so that I relegated it in my mind as a seamless experience which means I don't dread it.

 

[Pet3rK]

So you complain about Apple for higher prices even though their laptops have better displays? Your laptop is cheaper because it doesn't have the same manufacturing cost, explain to me how that is Apple's fault. Nobody cares if you choose another manufacturer because you don't need the displays Apple is offering and want to save money but spare us the hyperbole please.

I remember my friends shocking how good my M2 Air display is so much so they mistaken it as an OLED panel. They can see the difference on dark rooms but we are in a bright room and my Air is on a typical brightness settings. That said, they immediately thought that it's expensive because of the panel used.

We won't use the pretty screen much but it will come in handy when we start to analyze astronomical data. Imagine the beautiful pictures.

 

[Regulus67]

I've been here a long time (years). Just not on this account. I mostly rejoined because I missed the digital photography section which is one of the least lunatic parts of the digital photography community. It's about content not tech.

Ok.
Well as i have mentioned in other posts on this forum. I have installed Win10 as well, on my Mac Pro. First time since Win7. But I do not like it very much. So I only log in on Windows when I need something I can not do on the Apple eco system.

Quite frankly. Apple has offered me an opportunity to go beyond what I used to do on PCs. So even though I am cautious to some degree. And because I do not need to upgrade to the latest OS and hardware.
I am perfectly happy with my choice.

And I hope everyone feels the same way about whatever choice they have made.

I never went on a PC forum to rant over Microsoft, or Garmin's web service only.

 

[LambdaTheImpossible]

So you complain about Apple for higher prices even though their laptops have better displays? Your laptop is cheaper because it doesn't have the same manufacturing cost, explain to me how that is Apple's fault. Nobody cares if you choose another manufacturer because you don't need the displays Apple is offering and want to save money but spare us the hyperbole please.

I do a lot of photography (check my post history). The display doesn't make that much of a difference to me believe it or not. Hence why I didn't put a huge amount of effort into that point. I mean it's nice to have the MBP display but the thing is mostly always shut and plugged into a Studio Display. And when it's open and being used for work it's usually textual and I can't tell the difference at the same distance between the displays really (I have better than 20/20 vision for ref). And side by side when you stick it in the correct colour profile mode, the Dell P2723E I bought for the PC side of things actually comes out pretty identical. It doesn't justify 3-4x the cost for sure.

But I crack open the ThinkPad and it's not even that much different to the MBP side by side when you've been at it with the Spyder.

Sad but that "crappy" thinkpad display is actually really damn good.

 

[LambdaTheImpossible]

That's why my top two browser if Safari and FireFox. I use the latter for Android since it supports extensions.


View attachment 2306700

I don't use Firefox because it doesn't sync stuff with my desktop. Firefox Sync is terrible. Also firefox is buggy as hell on Android

False. Authenticator is listed only as 2FA verification app. Maybe you should check your own knowledge.

I have been using it since 2021 on my work iPhone. It does work. Your stuff is broken.

I am using Safari and free version of 1Blocker. It's been quite a while I've seen ads especially on YouTube and reddit. The ads that can pass through are usually found on certain sites.

Never tried that one. I hope they have worked around the annoying YT adblocker blocker!

that's odd. The place I like to hang out doesn't have WiFi signals but it still works. So much so that I relegated it in my mind as a seamless experience which means I don't dread it.

Lucky. The same is not true for a lot of people. This is our number one internal support problem at work with the corp iPhone deployment.

 

[PsykX]

I would attribute this to the developer putting less maintenance effort in the platform. There are macOS bugs, sure, but you'd be shocked how often developers rely on undocumented or deprecated features only later to blame Apple when their software stops working.

What ? It's not the fault of the developer if Apple does not have a good track record of documenting their APIs adequately, and documenting the new APIs that replace deprecated APIs.

At least it's a bit better than it was, and more importantly, at least there's StackOverflow, and independant people like Paul Hudson who do a MUCH better job than Apple themselves at teaching how to code for the Apple ecosystem.

 

[Pet3rK]

I have been using it since 2021 on my work iPhone. It does work. Your stuff is broken.

I am using the most recent version. And this is the App Store page of the Authenticator. Screenshot your settings so we can see it. Or maybe you are talking about Microsoft Authenticator?

Never tried that one. I hope they have worked around the annoying YT adblocker blocker!

I already watched a yt vid and no ads even on the most notorious videos.

 

[LambdaTheImpossible]

I am using the most recent version. And this is the App Store page of the Authenticator. Screenshot your settings so we can see it. Or maybe you are talking about Microsoft Authenticator?

I am using Microsoft Authenticator.

I already watched a yt vid and no ads even on the most notorious videos.

Very nice to know.

 

[NeonNights]

This is certainly true and I really don't understand why. For example, the Neural Engine bugs introduced into Ventura and stopping Adobe, DXO and other software working properly still haven't been fixed over a year on. It's just completely inexcusable that basic hardware functionality you pay for can't be used due to OS bugs that never get fixed.

Didn't they fix the Ventura NE bug for DxO PhotoLab? It did take several months but I don't notice the purple colorshift anymore when running DeepPrime.

 

[Aries79]

The only problem I have with the new ARM ecosystem is that the price has been going up considerably instead of at least staying the same, as you would have thought thanks to being all on Apple hands, has they don't have to pay a margin to Intel or AMD/Nvidia.

For example, in 2020 I could get a 27 inch iMac with 64GB of RAM, 2TB of internal SSD and a 16GB Radeon 5700XT (which is still as fast as a M2 Pro with 19 GPU cores) for 3200€ + VAT. Today I would get an M2 Pro 32GB Mini with 2TB SSD + Studio display for 4000€ + VAT: that's a 20% increase, for the same performance GPU, half the RAM, same SSD, 2 times faster single core performance, and that's after more than 3 years: something does not add up.

For sure I'll stay on my Intel 27 inch iMac for another 2 years, despite Apple hopes for a switch.

 

[jeanlain]

Magic mouse is a crap product.

Is there another mouse that allows scrolling in every direction with inertia?
The Magic Mouse is not perfect, but every time I use another mouse, I end up moving the scroll wheel like crazy. It's tiresome.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

If you want to get your moneys worth and have a decent computer that lasts indefinitely, you're looking at an old Intel-model mac. They're servicable, (though less so for the portables near the end) so you just keep throwing in bigger and better SSD's or RAM & GPU's when those parts eventually die, & run win or linux when Apple neuters its final MacOS to death cutting off connected services. Except that nearly every generation of them has some major issue, so you still pick your poison, but there are loads of those machines still going strong after a decade of use. Thanks to Microsoft supporting Macs better than Apple does, those will continue to run pretty much indefinitely.

But yea once Apple ditched Intel, they went fully disposable. Apple has gone to great lengths preventing & boobytrapping new macs from being serviced to extend their lives, ensuring that the first of the ssd, memory & power components to wear out with use will result in another sale of a new machine. So get your Apple-care covered usage out of it but after that, hot potato it on to some other sucker before in the trash it goes.

Old Macs & new Surface Pros for mobility & DIY PC's for horsepower seem to be the winning combo.

 

[leman]

Is there another mouse that allows scrolling in every direction with inertia?
The Magic Mouse is not perfect, but every time I use another mouse, I end up moving the scroll wheel like crazy. It's tiresome.

I haven’t touched a mouse since I got a Mac with a trackpad.

 

[TopToffee]

That's not what I'm arguing. Apple Silicon Macs are better value than Intel Macs. But definitely not better value than PCs.

That really depends how one measures “value” which is different for pretty much every single user.

 

[Mcdevidr]

No, it's not. Especially if you get mid to high-end parts.
What could get annoying is building a custom PC that's 100% silent, but even that is possible.

However, if you design it right and are ok with a compromise, you can definitely design a PC isn't completely silent, but has low noise, which will be more or less masked by the environment.

I personally think you can get some very interesting smaller, no-noise, compact PC. But custom PCs still have their place because they give a far better "bang for the buck" and are much easier to repair / customize (and can get better cooling / performance to boot, because they're larger – so, better airflow).

Let me reiterate. Building a custom PC is a pain in the butt.

 

[gusping]

I broadly agree with OP, but still like using a Mac (for now). My patience is slowly running out as each year Apple ups its prices and makes its software even worse. I thankfully don't need a powerful Mac so a 'cheap' M2 Mac mini does the job. The rest of my money went into my 4090 gaming build.

 

[gusping]

Let me reiterate. Building a custom PC is a pain in the butt.

If you aren't interested in building a PC, yes it is. I have no interest in building cars, so don't

 

[nathan_reilly]

I haven’t touched a mouse since I got a Mac with a trackpad.

A lot of 3D design software navigates with a mouse. Trackpads are not so fun for that. Examples are Solidworks and Fusion 360, Keyshot, etc., where a 3 button mouse is pretty much the minimum.

 

[SamRyouji]

Well, what can I say? At the end of the day, use whatever system (computer/phone/ OS) that works best for your day to day job. If Windows+ Android combo works for you, then great! Happy to hear that.
The thing is, people converting to another whole ecosystem happens quite often, especially recently. I have a friend who did the exact thing as you did. Although she put emphasis more on the Android+ Samsung side and less on Windows, she still threw (sold) her MacBook Pro + iPhone + iPad. The reason? Exactly the same as you: price and compatibility issue (file+apps). She works as marketing analyst.
.
Me? Mine would still be inside Apple ecosystem, and no one could convince me otherwise.
PS: I work on cloud based IT software at day and media creation (photo + video) at night/weekend, FYI.

 

[kwikdeth]

Especially if you don't need performance and are happy to sacrifice quality/ergonomy to save some money.

Ah yes, the typical retort. No one can build a computer as well as Apple. No computer is as powerful as Apple. You'll be sacrificing your health by "stepping down" to a less ergonomic computer. Give me a frickin break.

 

[klasma]

I’m sure you’ll find lots of stuff on the Windows side of the fence to be angry about, too.

This is true, but that doesn’t invalidate the criticism on the Apple side. Whataboutism doesn’t help anyone.

 

[ronincse]

What a silly argument this turned into. I have mostly been a Windows user my whole life, and I'm typing this on my main custom-built Windows desktop, but I have been lucky enough to get an M1 Macbook Pro for work (I'm a system admin and I needed one to manually enroll existing phones in Apple Business Manager and Intune). I also have a couple Lenovo Thinkpads lying around that I tinker with. Just wanting to make my perspective clear.

Mac laptops are just better at being laptops than Windows devices. There are some great Windows laptops out there but there are always tradeoffs that I don't face on the Macbook. Like I can use my Mac actually on my lap without it getting noticeably hot. I can use it for much longer on the battery vs any of the Windows laptops I have tried. The Mac is MUCH smoother in day-to-day use and is especially a much better experience when hooked up to my dual 4k monitors, I even tried using a Thinkpad X1 Extreme with a 3070 for a while and it still can't manage to keep everything smooth all the time (and the fans run very loud even when just sitting on the desk). My Windows desktop with a 3080 is nice and smooth but that should be a given.

Few more responses to things I noticed throughout the thread:

• You know you can hook up other keyboards to a Mac, right? You keep mentioning how your Cherry keyboard is better than the Apple one, which I'm sure is true, but why does that matter? Use the Cherry keyboard with your Mac. Chances are you can even get key caps with the Apple keys if you really want. Likewise with mice, use whatever you want.
• On that note you can use every single app you mentioned on Mac as well. Go ahead and use Edge instead of Safari (I do most of the time), and Authenticator and Outlook and whatever. Some of those Office programs even run a little better on Mac than they do on Windows AND have better design consistency. OneDrive even hooks into the OS fairly well.
• If you think Mac updates are buggy then have fun with Windows. Microsoft has gotten much MUCH better about updates and bugs but it is still fairly common to have little annoyances. Also I hope you don't care about design consistency in your OS at all.
• Can't wait until you have to deal with Lenovo or Google support vs Apple. I guess maybe it has gone downhill but you still always have the option of going into a store. Chances are your drive won't even be wiped with Apple whereas even unrelated fixes, like replacing your screen, will require a drive wipe from Windows OEMs much of the time.
• Ad blocking on iOS is IMO much better than Android. You have to side load a separate app to block things since Google wants to sell ads and doesn't support a system level adblocker. Even with something like that you still get ads that make it through sometimes on the Google feed and in other areas.
• Windows still is terrible at handling HDR in desktop mode. I currently have my settings kind of good enough but I still have to tinker sometimes depending on the game I'm playing on how it implements HDR.
• Windows handles using multiple monitors better as it actually remembers windows placements, and if you have sub 4k displays it is MUCH better as MacOS has terrible/non-existent text anti-aliasing.
• Also Windows handles windows better IMO and I prefer using the task bar to switch between programs. That is probably preference though and I'm sure people who used Macs for 30 years feel the opposite.
• Building your own PC really isn't that bad, although it sucks if you need support for something.

Finally, MS Authenticator is absolutely an option for password fills in iOS:

 

[MacRazySwe]

What the …. are you on about? 😂

- Upkeep costs being insane? Ownership risk high?

LOL. The TCO of Apples products is pretty much industry leading over a three year period. Your PC will be worth 50 % of its original value the moment you unwrap it. Not the case with Apple. Oh, and true story - my work provided Dell laptop didn’t even last the 2 years it was intended for.

You’ll be back again soon.

 

[120FPS]

What the …. are you on about? 😂

- Upkeep costs being insane? Ownership risk high?

LOL. The TCO of Apples products is pretty much industry leading over a three year period. Your PC will be worth 50 % of its original value the moment you unwrap it. Not the case with Apple. Oh, and true story - my work provided Dell laptop didn’t even last the 2 years it was intended for.

You’ll be back again soon.

Customizing a Mac and getting it repaired, even through an Apple Store, can be a lengthy process. I’ve experienced this multiple times. If this is your only work computer (which, given the cost of these tools for many people, might be the case), it could leave you unable to work for the duration it takes Apple to obtain and replace the logic board. Considering the intricacies of the different board specifications in their lineup, this could potentially extend the repair time.