Apple Music Apple Lossless now available?

[turbineseaplane]

I actually think the whole forums and discussions ABOUT the gear ends up taking up all the energy...

People seem to end up spending more time arguing about the gear and setups than listening to actual music

Once I noticed that, I realized I needed to get out.
I'm into music for the music -- not having overly complex & expensive gear setups

 

[riggles]

I actually think the whole forums and discussions ABOUT the gear ends up taking up all the energy...

It does, and it's not limited to audiophiles. Find a forum on just about any popular hobby. The more subjective the material, the more determined the arguments and opinions.

I enjoy both listening to and playing music. The distraction over guitars/amps/effects pedals is on par with headphones/DACs/speakers. It is both enticing and punishing.

 

[Act3]

I've noticed more of a difference when using the dolby atmos with my wired headphones over the lossless. Might be my headphones but I seriously could not tell a difference between lossless and aac. I also have ears that are over 50 years old. lol

 

[turbineseaplane]

I've noticed more of a difference when using the dolby atmos with my wired headphones over the lossless. Might be my headphones but I seriously could not tell a difference between lossless and aac. I also have ears that are over 50 years old. lol

It's not just you, despite very loud protestations to the contrary from many online ...

It has been exhaustively tested and confirmed.
It takes very specific circumstances and humans to reliably tell any differences between a good AAC or MP3 and a Lossless file.

Usually people are hearing other differences when doing comparisons (things like even a tiny volume difference as one example of many)

 

[Act3]

It's not just you, despite very loud protestations to the contrary from many online ...

It has been exhaustively tested and confirmed.
It takes very specific circumstances and humans to reliably tell any differences between a good AAC or MP3 and a Lossless file.

Usually people are hearing other differences when doing comparisons (things like even a tiny volume difference as one example of many)

might explain why they don't charge extra for it, like netflix does for 4k

 

[turbineseaplane]

might explain why they don't charge extra for it, like netflix does for 4k

I'm actually pretty surprised they didn't charge a bit more for it.
The people that are dead set convinced it is "way better" would absolutely pay for it.

Reasoning with audiophiles around Lossless is on par with dealing with Bitcoin maxi's

 

[Act3]

I'm actually pretty surprised they didn't charge a bit more for it.
The people that are dead set convinced it is "way better" would absolutely pay for it.

Reasoning with audiophiles around Lossless is on par with dealing with Bitcoin maxi's

good point, there are audiophiles that would pay extra for it.

 

[JasonHB]

It's not just you, despite very loud protestations to the contrary from many online ...

It has been exhaustively tested and confirmed.
It takes very specific circumstances and humans to reliably tell any differences between a good AAC or MP3 and a Lossless file.

Usually people are hearing other differences when doing comparisons (things like even a tiny volume difference as one example of many)

How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?

A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.

www.npr.org

This is a very simple test to determine whether you can hear the differences.

I get 6 out of 6 every time on my system at home. It is clear as day which is the hi-res file

Jason

 

[turbineseaplane]

How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?

A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.

www.npr.org

This is a very simple test to determine whether you can hear the differences.

I get 6 out of 6 every time on my system at home. It is clear as day which is the hi-res file

Jason

It's a complete crapshoot with so so so many variables per user

Audio Quality Quiz Results: You Did Slightly Better Than Guessing Randomly

We asked you to listen to six songs at different audio qualities. Most listeners had a hard time telling the difference between a low-quality MP3 and a lossless WAV.

www.npr.org

Has Anyone Tried The NPR Audio Test?- Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/38atam
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/38apm7
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/389s46

 

[Act3]

How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?

A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.

www.npr.org

This is a very simple test to determine whether you can hear the differences.

I get 6 out of 6 every time on my system at home. It is clear as day which is the hi-res file

Jason

I guess the folks at apple are wrong then..

is that test using apple's AAC? And the link is 6 years old. same year apple music came out. things have changed since then

 

[tkermit]

I'm kind of glad that we don't have to have this discussion anymore now that everybody has a choice in the matter. Just stick with whichever you prefer, whether that's lossy or lossless audio.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm kind of glad that we don't have to have this discussion anymore now that everybody has a choice in the matter. Just stick with whichever you prefer, whether that's lossy or lossless audio.

LOL!
No no my friend..

You think "choice" will eliminate the lossy vs lossless debate and discussions?
Never!

Entire forums go on about JUST this topic

 

[jazz1]

You sort of have to go down the road yourself to fully understand it.

It's like getting sucked into a cult somewhat.

Usually it starts with upgrading something simple (like just getting decent headphones) that provides a fairly tangible difference in quality of the experience (but even this will be largely about "different" vs "much better")..

...and the research into what to upgrade next to make it "even better" gets going.

And before you know it you're spending hundreds (or thousands) on DACs & Stax & Planars, etc all to tease out that next little edge of barely perceptible "better"....and the further you go the more diminishing the returns.

My biggest takeaway after all my adventures was just that my body and ears **vastly** prefer listening to speakers instead of headphones. And you don't have spend a mint on speakers to get a great experience. Additionally, I've confirmed - hundreds of times now - that my ears can't tell the difference between most anything once I'm above 256. I keep my library as lossless, but mainly for future proofing my options.

Done.
Enjoy the music.

I’ve had some pretty decent, classic stereo systems over the years. I have a number of ”mid-fi” headphones and a combo DAC/Amp and separate DAC and amplifier to drive them.

No headphone system I’ve owned really was as good as my formerly owned stereo systems. I love ”accurate sound” (there are many opinions on this) and a good soundstage! With great soundstage you can close your eyes and locate the positioning of the various instruments playing on the “virtual” stage. It is mesmerizing!

Frankly, unless you’ve heard a decent stereo system it is difficult to know what you are missing. I have a friend who currently has a very high end stereo system and I’ve got to say it as close to a live music venue that you can get. Though that might not really be your personal “cup of tea”. But the cost of my friend’s incredibly high stereo sound system is beyond my means and priorities. Even though I enjoy this exquisite system immensely I cannot justify the cost myself.

Sorry to wander a bit. But years ago I had a relative who had an “in” with many wineries in Napa Valley. I not only got the grand tour of several prominent wineries, but I was served some pretty high end wine and and in one venue food. Did it spoil my future consumption of wine and food. No, it did not. I conclude that lesson below.

They say the more you spend the less return you get on sound equipment. There is indeed some wisdom in that. But, if you have a chance to listen to a high end music system, do yourself a favor and indulge. It won’t ruin your music loving life, but it will make you understand what high end systems are capable of. I think it will make you a better judge of how much time and money you want to spend on your music. It might even help you enjoy whatever you have on hand.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They say the more you spend the less return you get on sound equipment. There is indeed some wisdom on that. But, if you have a chance to listen to a high end music system, do yourself a favor and indulge. It won’t ruin your music loving life, but it will make you understand what high end systems are capable of. I think it will make you a better judge of how time and money you want to spend on your music. It might even help you enjoy whatever you have on hand.

Frankly, unless you’ve heard a decent stereo system it is difficult to know what you are missing.

I'm happy to report that I was blessed to spend an entire evening in front a $150k setup in a home in the marina in SF

Impressive and fun - but not even close to worth it (to me).

It was also rather obnoxiously space consuming. It came across as more of an "amusement ride" than anything I'd want in my living spaces all the time.

I'll see if I can pull up a picture or two from that night

It should be noted though, that a lossless source file was really just a tiny portion of what was amazing. The components, arrangement, room treatment and specific listening position and my attentiveness to the activity at hand were all doing way more of "the work" of creating the great experience.

I have no idea how a really well done source file and compressed file would have performed -- but my instincts suggest "better than we think". The rest of the setup was the real magic here.

Cheers

 

[burgman]

Oh man..

This new feature is going to bring in all the silliness that infects the Audiophile area on reddit

People will start hearing things they swear they've never heard before and discussing endless combos of placebo differences between DACs and their "Schiit Stacks"

The music will now have "wider sound stage" and "more air" and "texture, detail and warmth"

The "game will be changed forever" .... "can't go back"....and "everything non lossless now sounds awful"

Sooo True, Golden Ears are special people. Of course the opposite also, AM lossless sounds worse with descriptions that read like a wine review. Same applies to Golden Eyes people too.

 

[Apleeseed84]

I keep back Ups of my songs in loss/hi res On my PC but once Apple got the ball rolling I was completely not prepared for this at all.

For one apple devices still have outdated storage sizes to handle these songs, yes I make my decisions on past needs because I know what I have when it comes to my library but the unknown factor was Apple Music I think.

20 million songs at the moment that will double or triple by the end of the year. I purchased from itunes close to 3000 songs, 1,500 songs are from my personal collection uploaded through my PC and the rest are Apple Music and it all totals close to 8842

I was hard headed to think I could fit them all on my 256gb iphone because before i was used to having 89gb of music but OMG enabling to download EVERY song in hi res turned out to be A colossal mistake, my ipad is 1tb, my entire Apple Music library as of right now is now 250gb worth of songs.

I cried because damn, why Apple, why!? I THANK YOU for automatically upgrading our songs with no upcharge have but please:

iphone 13’s storage sizes better start at 512 gb or else, damn hahaha FML.

I at the end of the day gave up.

My temporary fix is deleting my library and set all my music to only High Quality again and set the hi res/lossless to Wifi/Celular as of right now Because it’s just impossible to fit them all and of course every one is different but I use my devices as extra backups of my media if it allows it

Speaking of which my cellular plan hit 100gb because of all the downloading and re downloading of the music these past couple of days but I learned a lot, it’s a huge learning curve for sure but since it’s 20million songs right now that library will get monumentally huuuuugeeeeee when the dust settles with this. ?. I just hope they don’t hold back when it comes to flash storage I think.

 

[PeytonT123]

So true Lossless cannot be properly played through AirPod/Pros/Max, because of the Bluetooth connection not having that capability.

My question is….is listening to the “Lossless” version of a song on Apple Music, with AirPod Pros, any better at all than the previous AAC version? Like, is there some improvement there, just not the full actual thing?

 

[JasonHB]

So true Lossless cannot be properly played through AirPod/Pros/Max, because of the Bluetooth connection not having that capability.

My question is….is listening to the “Lossless” version of a song on Apple Music, with AirPod Pros, any better at all than the previous AAC version? Like, is there some improvement there, just not the full actual thing?

I think that there is when using my AirPods Max, not tried it on the Pro’s yet though. But I will probably get flamed for saying that as according to a lot of people on here, that is impossible.

There is also a clear difference between the alternative hi-res streaming services through the APM’s

Jason

 

[Apleeseed84]

I think that there is when using my AirPods Max, not tried it on the Pro’s yet though. But I will probably get flamed for saying that as according to a lot of people on here, that is impossible.

There is also a clear difference between the alternative hi-res streaming services through the APM’s

Jason

Is the difference far better than the others or about the same?

 

[JasonHB]

Is the difference far better than the others or about the same?

I have spent more hours than I care to mention comparing hi-res services. Up to now, I have been using Qobuz as it is the most natural sounding service of them all (to me anyway) and the least “processed” sound.

I have now been comparing Qobuz with Apple Music Lossless and from a quality point of view, they are extremely close, but Apple Music sounds slightly richer in the mid band and has a little more bass weight. Slightly more analog sounding, and to me, is preferable.

The only “downside” to me, is the difficulty in getting this into my hifi system. All of the others have options for streaming via specific streaming devices at hi-res, but Apple Music doesn’t currently. The only way of achieving this is via an iPhone or iPad and into a DAC. That is ok in itself, but I don’t want to have to get up and walk over to the rack and use the phone or iPad there, I would like to be able to do it from an app and not have to be tethered via a cable.

It is not a deal breaker and for the money, it is fantastic. I have now cancelled Qobuz, but I just wish there was a way to make that easier.

I was hoping the Apple TV 4K supported hi-res, but it is currently capped at 24/48 and not 24/192. Don’t know why they are restricting it, but that would be a great solution

Jason

 

[Apleeseed84]

I have spent more hours than I care to mention comparing hi-res services. Up to now, I have been using Qobuz as it is the most natural sounding service of them all (to me anyway) and the least “processed” sound.

I have now been comparing Qobuz with Apple Music Lossless and from a quality point of view, they are extremely close, but Apple Music sounds slightly richer in the mid band and has a little more bass weight. Slightly more analog sounding, and to me, is preferable.

The only “downside” to me, is the difficulty in getting this into my hifi system. All of the others have options for streaming via specific streaming devices at hi-res, but Apple Music doesn’t currently. The only way of achieving this is via an iPhone or iPad and into a DAC. That is ok in itself, but I don’t want to have to get up and walk over to the rack and use the phone or iPad there, I would like to be able to do it from an app and not have to be tethered via a cable.

It is not a deal breaker and for the money, it is fantastic. I have now cancelled Qobuz, but I just wish there was a way to make that easier.

I was hoping the Apple TV 4K supported hi-res, but it is currently capped at 24/48 and not 24/192. Don’t know why they are restricting it, but that would be a great solution

Jason

Thanks for the comparison, I do feel that Apple’s hi res sound richer but thought it wasn’t the only one, for sure it’s a pain in the rear trying to set up the hi fi every time i want to listen to something versus just popping in the AirPods Pro but sometimes it’s worth it.

To be honest I don’t think Apple pLanNed ahead for lossless/hi res as they obviously steered toward atmos and spatial and it shows

 

[zakarhino]

It's not just you, despite very loud protestations to the contrary from many online ...

It has been exhaustively tested and confirmed.
It takes very specific circumstances and humans to reliably tell any differences between a good AAC or MP3 and a Lossless file.

Usually people are hearing other differences when doing comparisons (things like even a tiny volume difference as one example of many)

"very specific circumstances" such as actually using decent gear. I don't know why people insist on "debunking" the very real differences in listening experience between low end sources/equipment vs. high end lossless sources and high end gear. If I try playing Spotify music on my equipment I end up wanting to insert a drill bit into my ear canal. The difference between a high res lossless music file vs. a lossy badly mixed track is night and day. Many of those "lossless vs lossy" comparison videos and articles I've seen have major holes in them such as using bog standard headphones and recordings to do their testing.

Even when comparing two relatively high end DACs with the same lossless file I can pick up on all sorts of differences in the way the music renders. I've accidentally left my DAC in a lower resolution setting than it should be a few times over the past year and every time I've thought "something seems wrong" when playing back music I'm familiar with. To me that is definitive proof that high res audio is not placebo, I knew something was wrong just by playing back music.

 

[JasonHB]

"very specific circumstances" such as actually using decent gear. I don't know why people insist on "debunking" the very real differences in listening experience between low end sources/equipment vs. high end lossless sources and high end gear. If I try playing Spotify music on my equipment I end up wanting to insert a drill bit into my ear canal. The difference between a high res lossless music file vs. a lossy badly mixed track is night and day. Many of those "lossless vs lossy" comparison videos and articles I've seen have major holes in them such as using bog standard headphones and recordings to do their testing.

Even when comparing two relatively high end DACs with the same lossless file I can pick up on all sorts of differences in the way the music renders. I've accidentally left my DAC in a lower resolution setting than it should be a few times over the past year and every time I've thought "something seems wrong" when playing back music I'm familiar with. To me that is definitive proof that high res audio is not placebo, I knew something was wrong just by playing back music.

I totally agree with you, but there will be so many people telling you that you’re wrong.

I can even hear the difference between Spotify and Qobuz in my car.

Jason

 

[PeytonT123]

I think that there is when using my AirPods Max, not tried it on the Pro’s yet though. But I will probably get flamed for saying that as according to a lot of people on here, that is impossible.

There is also a clear difference between the alternative hi-res streaming services through the APM’s

Jason

There have been a couple of songs where I’ve actually noticed specific differences, both with my AirPod Pros and actually even in my car. Im not an expert, but it doesn’t sound totally far fetched that a higher quality file will get a little bit more detail (just not all of it) through a Bluetooth connection than one of a lesser quality.

 

[Carlson-online]

For those that struggle to tell the difference between lossless and lossy, there's one thing that you will notice - fatigue.

You will be able to listen to lossless files for longer than lossy ones