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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,146
1,902
Anchorage, AK
My point is that once Apple stops supporting M1 based macOS then these systems are suddenly unprotected and how will Apple react then. Intel Macs are orthogonal as those can run Bootcamp or Linux permanently. There is no solution for unsupported M1 Macs.
Those M1 systems would still run the last version of MacOS written for them. It's no different from Macs that are at the cutoff line for Mac OS Monterey support. Just because it's an ARM-based processor doesn't mean Apple will suddenly start implementing a "kill switch" (something they have NEVER implemented on any device REGARDLESS of the processor inside).
 
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bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
To each their own. I have been using plastic flexy windows laptops for decades, and I do not miss it. And unless you're talking about the X1 nano, the MBA is still lighter.
Not true, The X1 Carbon is also lighter. (2.4lb vs. 2.8lb for the M1 MBA) The Nano is lighter still, but lighter in specs too.
Performance-wise, the M1 MBA wipes the floor with the X1 nano (not sure about the carbon or other variants, but I'd suspect they beat the MBA). All that said, if I actually *wanted* to run Windows, I would not buy a macbook.... and certainly not the M1 lol. Although, I guess in theory you can run ARM Windows on it, if you truly hate yourself.
I happen to want to run both. (That wasn't cool btw...)
 

Weisswurstsepp

macrumors member
Jul 25, 2020
55
63
All I can say is that I have had PC's from Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, Sony, even Compaq in the early days (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable :)), and regrettably godawful no-name brands recently over the past 10 years, since I work in a UK university and the PC's we buy are determined centrally. Throughout this entire time, which spans from the mid 1980's, Mac's have simply been more robust and have had enough processing power to do what I needed them to do. After the switch to Intel processors, it came to the point I'd rather buy Mac's because they got the job done, even emulating Windows, without fizzling and smoking (yes, I've had PC's that literally caught fire). No doubt one's impressions of computers depend on what you use them for. Mine have been used predominately for office tasks, data acquisition, data analysis, and data visualisation. I do not care if some specialised rig shaves off a few nanoseconds of processing time for a task. I am looking for productivity, which is a combination of hardware optimisation and good user interface.

I feel your pain but the problem is that especially the UK education sector seems to prefer to go for the lowest cost options. And yes, all the big names also sell some cheaper crap to the audience that wants it ;)

Where I work we oversee around 50k machines globally (plus a ton of servers), and that includes some contingent of Macs. Most of the systems are HP or Dell (high end series, not the cheap prosumer stuff), some are Lenovo and a few are Fujitsu. Neither brand is particularly bad (i.e., excessive overall failure rate), but the most troublesome systems have been Macs.

It's not that Macs fail that more often, it's what happens when they fail as Apple is completely inebt when it comes dealing with large customers. For example, if one of our HP workstations fail then I open a support case online, describe the problem and steps I took to narrow down the source, and in most cases either the spare part or an engineer with the spare part turns up on our doorstep the next day (because we know the systems we tend to just request the spare part). Keep in mind that this is covered within the standard warranty (3yrs NBD), not through additional service contracts (which we have only on critical systems), which already offers a level of support that Apple can't provide at any cost. And the workstations themselves are so maintenance friendly that changing most parts doesn't even require a screwdriver (even PSUs have been plug and play for a long time) so replacing many components can be done in a few minutes until the system is back in working condition. More often than not, Macs are maintenance nightmares in comparison.

On top of that, there are Apple's design priorities (such as using a very soft aluminum alloy as a shell for a laptop, the excessive focus on thin-ness, bolted-in keyboards, glued-in batteries or the increasing lack of connectivity) which cause additional headache, and so do the various design flaws built into many of their systems (such as cable gate, cracked screens, keyboard-gate or the chronically underspec'd cooling solutions in many Macs) where Apple often just tries to sit out the problem instead of addressing it proactively. Granted, that can happen on PCs, too (Dell certainly had its fair share of lemon series), but it's a lot less common than on Apple hardware, at least as business/enterprise class PC hardware is concerned (and any problems are usually resolved pretty quickly).

And I'm not even touching the fact that PC hardare is way more flexible to adapt to specific needs than Apple Macs.

If there was a decent viable alternative to macOS then we'd happily dump our Apple computers in a heartbeat (not the iPhones/iPads, though).
 
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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,128
Atlanta, GA
iPadOS/iOS is a classic example of kill switch so if MacOS starts modeling after that with essential apps/services like browser, app store, etc. dependent on OS updates then you should be worried.

Typical OS life cycle of x64 Mac is run MacOS until it's no longer supported then run Windows or Linux. The fact that M1 killed off Windows and Linux options is a kill switch.
A kill switch is where Apple actually stops the computer from running; a kill switch is not dropping support for old hardware. There is no iOS or MacOS kill switch.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
In all seriousness, how many people go “my 10 year old Mac is not receiving macOS security updates anymore, guess I will install windows and continue using it. So lucky I have this option!”. Exactly, nobody.

I mean, it’s great to discuss options and all, but let’s also not forget about a certain measure of relevance. The simple fact is that a Mac - any Mac - has a limited software support span. If that is something that bothers a potential customer, that customer should simply keep away from Macs.

Uhhh same for any PC? Windows XP is no longer supported. Windows 7 too for consumers.
 

Weisswurstsepp

macrumors member
Jul 25, 2020
55
63
Uhhh same for any PC? Windows XP is no longer supported. Windows 7 too for consumers.

That is correct of course but many PCs that were sold during the Windows 7 or even XP days run Windows 10 just fine.

In fact, intel Macs have seen much longer support by Microsoft than by Apple itself.
 
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Bandaman

Cancelled
Aug 28, 2019
2,005
4,091
Is this thread serious? They've never had a killswitch in any of their products. You just stop getting updates.


Uhhh same for any PC? Windows XP is no longer supported. Windows 7 too for consumers.
But most PCs can run Windows 10 and continue to receive updates. An OS not being supported is not even remotely the same as entire hardware lines not being supported.
 

NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,093
22,159
My point is that once Apple stops supporting M1 based macOS then these systems are suddenly unprotected and how will Apple react then. Intel Macs are orthogonal as those can run Bootcamp or Linux permanently. There is no solution for unsupported M1 Macs.
Didn’t they recently put out security updates for a long dead OS? Like Snow Leopard I think? Maybe not snow leopard but a very old OS.
 

EnquiringMindsWannaKnow

macrumors newbie
Aug 3, 2021
3
0
What happens when Apple decides that M1 Macs are a bit long in the tooth and it's time to obsolete them? Will they throw a kill switch in macOS to make them unbootable to macOS? This is the importance of native ARM based Windows 11 and Linux.
Apple has to much of a illegal control over every humanoid ?
 
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calstanford

Suspended
Nov 25, 2014
1,419
4,306
Hong Kong
What happens when Apple decides that M1 Macs are a bit long in the tooth and it's time to obsolete them? Will they throw a kill switch in macOS to make them unbootable to macOS? This is the importance of native ARM based Windows 11 and Linux.
Are you working for a PC manufacturer or why are you spreading these odd rumors? Do you know Windows 11 doesn't run on older PCs too?
 

Khedron

Suspended
Sep 27, 2013
2,561
5,755
Can you provide even a single concrete example of Apple using T-series chips as a “kill switch”?

Skynet didn't drop any nukes ever. Until it dropped them all.

You don't put a kill switch in millions of products unless you're going to use it one day.

Chekhov's T-chip.
 

dogslobber

macrumors 601
Original poster
Oct 19, 2014
4,670
7,809
Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
Skynet is fictional, just like your kill switch.
Apple has had the technology in iPhones for almost a decade. Only the naive would believe this hasn't transferred to the M1 Macs.

 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
Apple has had the technology in iPhones for almost a decade. Only the naive would believe this hasn't transferred to the M1 Macs.

Remote wipe/lock technology has been present on the Mac for a couple of years now, Intel models included. The question is not whether this technology exists, the question is why do you think Apple would use it to mess with legitimate devices. Is there anything in their end user agreement giving them the provision to arbitrarily disable devices owned by customers?
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,128
Atlanta, GA
Apple has had the technology in iPhones for almost a decade. Only the naive would believe this hasn't transferred to the M1 Macs.

So you read a scary sounding word on the internet and now somehow think, with zero evidence btw, that apple will use it in a nefarious way. Activation lock (which has existed on Macs for years), find my, firmware passwords, login passwords, Touch ID, Face ID, File-Vault, etc. are all security measures that the user, not Apple, control.
 
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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
Apple has had the technology in iPhones for almost a decade. Only the naive would believe this hasn't transferred to the M1 Macs.

... and just how many times has Apple nefariously abused activation lock during that period of time?

Same question for the SIM lock and IMEI blacklisting carriers have possessed for all cell phones for two decades?

Final question - exactly what positive outcome to Apple do you imagine they think they're gain from somehow using a "kill switch" on an user's macOS computer in the field?
 

dogslobber

macrumors 601
Original poster
Oct 19, 2014
4,670
7,809
Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
Final question - exactly what positive outcome to Apple do you imagine they think they're gain from somehow using a "kill switch" on an user's macOS computer in the field?
I think the real question you are asking is to what extent is this functionality in macOS able to disable a consumer's Mac if used. Corporations don't implement features just because. There is always a business rationale which isn't always disclosed.
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,128
Atlanta, GA
I think the real question you are asking is to what extent is this functionality in macOS able to disable a consumer's Mac if used. Corporations don't implement features just because. There is always a business rationale which isn't always disclosed.
Nope, he asked the correct question, but to answer your question, the business rationale for activation lock (or firmware passwords, Touch ID, Face ID, etc.) is to increase security by letting the authorized users prevent unauthorized users from using their devices.
 
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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
I think the real question you are asking is to what extent is this functionality in macOS able to disable a consumer's Mac if used. Corporations don't implement features just because. There is always a business rationale which isn't always disclosed.

No, that's not at all what I asked.

I thought my questions were perfectly clearly asked, but if you're having trouble understanding what I wrote, please tell me what part(s) are unclear and I'll see if I can remedy that for you.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
I think the real question you are asking is to what extent is this functionality in macOS able to disable a consumer's Mac if used.

Not really the question they were asking, but the answer to that question is "to full extent". The very point of this functionality is to completely disable a stolen or compromised device.

Corporations don't implement features just because. There is always a business rationale which isn't always disclosed.

The business rationale is obvious: to give the device owner the means to securely purge their data and disable the device if it is stolen or compromised. This is a desirable privacy feature that made a lot of users choose an Apple device. In fact, the article you quoted discusses the pressure Apple was putting on Goole and Microsoft to implement similar security measures.

You don't need to see nefarious activity behind anything a corporation does. Not to mention that your user agreement does not give them any right to just "kill" your device. If they tried to do anything like this, the backlash would be immediate and significant.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,298
Are you working for a PC manufacturer or why are you spreading these odd rumors? Do you know Windows 11 doesn't run on older PCs too?

Windows 11 hasn't been released but the insider edition does run on old hardware like 2008 Thinkpad x200. Have Windows 10 and Linux on mine but here's someone with Windows 11 and since it runs better it'll extend the life of the laptop several more years.

 
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