Apple M1 kill switch

[PsykX]

This thread is completely absurd, I can't believe it's still alive.
(Ironically, this exact post explains why.)

Look.

Apple's not evil.

And if they do become evil.

Investors will flee like the plague.
The stock will crash.
Abruptly.
Some employees might decide to quit.
Some might be fired.
And most importantly.
Most importantly.
They will lose millions...
Wait, who am I kidding?
BILLIONS of customers.

 

[JMacHack]

This thread is completely absurd, I can't believe it's still alive.
(Ironically, this exact post explains why.)

Look.

Apple's not evil.

And if they do become evil.

Investors will flee like the plague.
The stock will crash.
Abruptly.
Some employees might decide to quit.
Some might be fired.
And most importantly.
Most importantly.
They will lose millions...
Wait, who am I kidding?
BILLIONS of customers.

Some people trouble separating real life from Saturday morning cartoons.

Like Tim Cook is some dick dastardly type character. Somehow missing the point that activating a kill switch on an otherwise functional machine would likely piss off customers, and doesn’t guarantee that individuals have enough spare cash to replace the “dead” machine. Resulting in extreme backlash and diving sales, not increased.

As for running a different OS when official support ends, Apple made a specific “reduced security” mode to make running other OSes a possibility. Now it’s up to other OSes to support Apple Silicon (which support has entered the Linux kernel now).

 

[deeddawg]

Some people trouble separating real life from Saturday morning cartoons.

Like Tim Cook is some dick dastardly type character. Somehow missing the point that activating a kill switch on an otherwise functional machine would likely piss off customers, and doesn’t guarantee that individuals have enough spare cash to replace the “dead” machine. Resulting in extreme backlash and diving sales, not increased.

Exactly. You're touching on where I was going when I asked what positive result he though Apple expected to see from disabling a user's computer. Who would go buy a new Apple product after having that happen to them? Nobody. They swear off the brand entirely. So what's the benefit to Apple?

As for running a different OS when official support ends, Apple made a specific “reduced security” mode to make running other OSes a possibility. Now it’s up to other OSes to support Apple Silicon (which support has entered the Linux kernel now).

Really haven't followed linux for a long time, but a quick google suggests that Ubuntu is bootable on Apple Silicon, though still has a long ways to go to be really usable. But if it boots, there's promise. Which would also seem to undermine the basis for the original post, as once proven possible it'd likely be a matter of time until folks smooth everything out.

Ubuntu Linux Now Runs On Apple M1 Silicon Macs, What To Expect And How To Prepare

Adventurous Mac owners can check out Ubuntu Linux on M1 silicon for themselves, though there are some caveats.

hothardware.com

 

[Ethosik]

But most PCs can run Windows 10 and continue to receive updates. An OS not being supported is not even remotely the same as entire hardware lines not being supported.

Windows 11 will change this. And MacOS is still supported for a wide range of devices too. You also need to look at this from the OEM perspective. Some older systems do not have the Dell/HP/Lenovo drivers for Windows 10 thus causing a frustrating experience.

Your two lines of thinking are not as different as you think. OS not being supported DOES mean hardware is not supported. I have an old 2009 system that runs Windows 7 but CANNOT upgrade to Windows 10 - I am missing the NX bit that has been required since Windows 8.

 

[Ethosik]

Windows 11 hasn't been released but the insider edition does run on old hardware like 2008 Thinkpad x200. Have Windows 10 and Linux on mine but here's someone with Windows 11 and since it runs better it'll extend the life of the laptop several more years.

Was this a hacked version? Microsoft stated that Kaby lake Intel processors are required. So a processor from 2008, unless you messed with the installer, is NOT possible. Likewise, people have messed with the installers to get newer macOS running on the 2010 Mac Pro.

Installing Big Sur on a mid-2010 Mac Pro (MacPro5,1)

flying-geek.blogspot.com

Not all 2008 systems are alike. In fact, I had a system from 2011 that could not support Windows 8 or 10 due to the specific processor used in that joy of a computer did not have the NX bit requirement that Windows 8+ needed. So just saying "2008 system" doesn't prove much. If its the top end processor, with the NX bit and other requirements yes it will work. But there are some processors from 2011 that did not have all the features that Windows 8 and 10 needs.

 

[thenewperson]

Some people trouble separating real life from Saturday morning cartoons.

Like Tim Cook is some dick dastardly type character. Somehow missing the point that activating a kill switch on an otherwise functional machine would likely piss off customers, and doesn’t guarantee that individuals have enough spare cash to replace the “dead” machine. Resulting in extreme backlash and diving sales, not increased.

As for running a different OS when official support ends, Apple made a specific “reduced security” mode to make running other OSes a possibility. Now it’s up to other OSes to support Apple Silicon (which support has entered the Linux kernel now).

A lot of the Apple contrarian world has deluded themselves into thinking every Apple user is a deluded rich boy that'll just buy a new device when Apple tells them to, so the logic that Apple invoking a kill switch on not-even-that-old devices will result in increased sales for Apple makes a lot of sense to those kinds of people.

Those kinds of people also think they're smart.

 

[TopToffee]

Typical OS life cycle of x64 Mac is run MacOS until it's no longer supported then run Windows or Linux. The fact that M1 killed off Windows and Linux options is a kill switch.

You either don't understand the word "typical" or you forgot the word "my" in front of it.

 

[MauiPa]

What happens when Apple decides that M1 Macs are a bit long in the tooth and it's time to obsolete them? Will they throw a kill switch in macOS to make them unbootable to macOS? This is the importance of native ARM based Windows 11 and Linux.

I'll immediately add this one to the list of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. thanks for uncovering this one.

 

[MauiPa]

In all seriousness, how many people go “my 10 year old Mac is not receiving macOS security updates anymore, guess I will install windows and continue using it. So lucky I have this option!”. Exactly, nobody.

I mean, it’s great to discuss options and all, but let’s also not forget about a certain measure of relevance. The simple fact is that a Mac - any Mac - has a limited software support span. If that is something that bothers a potential customer, that customer should simply keep away from Macs.

I know right? windows keeps on supporting old machines - until they don't support older machines. Can't even install Windows 11 on most newer machines. Oops, did I say that out loud?

 

[Weisswurstsepp]

Windows 11 hasn't been released but the insider edition does run on old hardware like 2008 Thinkpad x200. Have Windows 10 and Linux on mine but here's someone with Windows 11 and since it runs better it'll extend the life of the laptop several more years.

No, it won't. Because just because the current and very early Beta of Windows 11 runs on your old computers doesn't mean the release version will. In fact, Microsoft has explicitly stated that the release version won't do exactly that, as will require a TPM 2.0 and a supported processor.

 

[Morgenland]

Yes, the Mac doesn't stop working. But you will no longer receive security updates for macOS.

On Intel Macs, you can install Windows or Linux in this case and still have an up-to-date operating system with security updates.
With Apple Silicon Macs this is not possible according to the current status (Linux on Apple Silicon lacks drivers etc.). From this point of view, the lifespan of an Apple Silicon Mac is probably shorter than that of an Intel Mac.


With macOS in insecure form.
For Windows and Linux, on the other hand, security updates are longer available.

Win7?

 

[Morgenland]

There are Macs with shorter macOS support. The hardware is often still okay and does its job (depending on the tasks).



From an IT security perspective, this is the worst choice.

In lots of companies all over the world an endless number of win7-PCs are thrown into the scrap bin

 

[JMacHack]

In lots of companies all over the world an endless number of win7-PCs are thrown into the scrap bin

Or more likely, still used despite being no longer supported.

 

[Jemani]

My point is that once Apple stops supporting M1 based macOS then these systems are suddenly unprotected and how will Apple react then. Intel Macs are orthogonal as those can run Bootcamp or Linux permanently. There is no solution for unsupported M1 Macs.

Kind of like my Windows 10 phone that is unsupported in any way. I can’t install any other operating system. I am stuck with an old version of Windows 10 that isn’t supported and all the apps are old and no updates.

 

[robco74]

It's too bad MS flubbed Windows Phone so badly. It really did have some nice features.

 

[k27]

In lots of companies all over the world an endless number of win7-PCs are thrown into the scrap bin

You can't compare that. Have you seen how long Microsoft supported Windows 7? For many years. And you can buy even longer support as a company from Microsoft for money.
Windows 10 also runs pretty well on many Windows 7 machines. Installing more memory or an SSD is usually possible. So throwing away is not always necessary.

 

[Digitalguy]

This thread starts with the wrong assumption. That Windows 10 will be supported for longer than MacOS on M1.
Let's be clear:
1. Windows 10 will stop being supported in 2025 (4 years from now).
2. Intel Macs are not eligible to Windows 11 (and hacking the insider beta will not change that, Microsoft said clearly recently to these people and I quote Microsoft (you can watch the video) "it sucks... but we will block you anyway", which means that these people will be blacklisted from official Win11 and will stop receiving updates even before Win10 users do).
3. Given that Apple has shown support for Macs for around 8 years, M1 support should outlast Windows 10 support (you can purchase additional support, just like you can with W7 till 2023, if you have a business volume licence, but I doubt Mac users have such licence agreements)
4. My personal guess is that Apple will support their own chips for longer than Intel ones, probably 10 years
5. I would feel safer running an unsupported Mac for a couple of years longer than the end of support, than running an unsupported Windows device

PS bootcamp with Windows 11 on Arm may come at some point, it's up to Microsoft (as Federighi said)

 

[k27]

You're ignoring Linux, which still runs today on the first Intel Macs with current security patches.
And how it really behaves with Windows 11 remains to be seen. It should be possible to install Windows directly on an Intel Mac without Bootcamp. But that may be going too far.
With Apple Silicon, these options no longer exist. Whether these options are relevant for you is another story.


"If it were up to Apple, a seven-year-old Mac would belong in the recycling bin. After this period, the manufacturer no longer supplies its devices with updates. If you don't want to resign yourself to this and want to continue to use your old darlings - and above all safely - you can equip them with an adapted Linux. This way, the computer's life does not only continue with fresh updates, but you can also keep the familiar macOS operating habits - provided that you do a little manual work. Our self-experiment shows: This works better than expected.

The physical basis for this excursion into the Linux world is an iMac from 2009. A dozen years ago, it was the right-bottom model in Apple's all-in-one desktops: 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo processor, a graphics card with 512 MB of dedicated VRAM, officially a maximum of 4 GB of RAM. The only noteworthy change that our iMac has undergone in the meantime: The hard drive has been replaced by a 1 TB SSD. By the way: The basis does not necessarily have to be a Mac, the following instructions can also be transferred to standard PC hardware for the most part."

Alte Macs mit Linux flott machen: Apple-Rechner mit Manjaro Linux wiederbeleben

Der alte Mac schnurrt noch, erhält aber keine Updates mehr? Dann verlängern Sie sein Leben mit Linux, ohne auf das Look and Feel von macOS verzichten zu müssen.

www.heise.de

 

[dmccloud]

This thread starts with the wrong assumption. That Windows 10 will be supported for longer than MacOS on M1.
Let's be clear:
1. Windows 10 will stop being supported in 2025 (4 years from now).
2. Intel Macs are not eligible to Windows 11 (and hacking the insider beta will not change that, Microsoft said clearly recently to these people and I quote Microsoft (you can watch the video) "it sucks... but we will block you anyway", which means that these people will be blacklisted from official Win11 and will stop receiving updates even before Win10 users do).
3. Given that Apple has shown support for Macs for around 8 years, M1 support should outlast Windows 10 support (you can purchase additional support, just like you can with W7 till 2023, if you have a business volume licence, but I doubt Mac users have such licence agreements)
4. My personal guess is that Apple will support their own chips for longer than Intel ones, probably 10 years
5. I would feel safer running an unsupported Mac for a couple of years longer than the end of support, than running an unsupported Windows device

PS bootcamp with Windows 11 on Arm may come at some point, it's up to Microsoft (as Federighi said)

Technically the Intel-based Macs released in the last 4-5 years should meet the TPM 2.0 requirement, since it was built into the Intel chipset that accompanied 8th gen and later Core series. While the Insider preview does work on "unsupported" hardware, once M$ fully implements the TPM 2.0 requirement those individuals will be hosed. In some ways, this feels like a way for Microsoft to artificially match/beat FY2020 sales by forcing people to buy new hardware and new copies of the OS.

 

[Digitalguy]

Technically the Intel-based Macs released in the last 4-5 years should meet the TPM 2.0 requirement, since it was built into the Intel chipset that accompanied 8th gen and later Core series. While the Insider preview does work on "unsupported" hardware, once M$ fully implements the TPM 2.0 requirement those individuals will be hosed. In some ways, this feels like a way for Microsoft to artificially match/beat FY2020 sales by forcing people to buy new hardware and new copies of the OS.

Yes, but Apple has not enabled TPM in bootcamp so unless Apple makes some sort of firmware update for those Intel 8th gen and newer Macs it won't work and I doubt Apple will do it, especially as most of these Intel machines may not be supported much longer than 2025 anyway...

 

[Kung gu]

Typical OS life cycle of x64 Mac is run MacOS until it's no longer supported then run Windows or Linux. The fact that M1 killed off Windows and Linux options is a kill switch.

What a blatant LIE. You can RUN other operating systems on M1 Macs. The bootloader is unlocked on M1 Macs.

https://asahilinux.org/about/

Does Apple allow this? Don’t you need a jailbreak?​

Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon Macs without a jailbreak! This isn’t a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. That means that, unlike iOS devices, Apple does not intend to lock down what OS you can use on Macs (though they probably won’t help with the development).

and this is the progress so far.

Debian Linux Running Bare Metal on Apple's M1 SoC

apt-get awesome

www.tomshardware.com

Debian Linux running bare metal.

 

[Yebubbleman]

What happens when Apple decides that M1 Macs are a bit long in the tooth and it's time to obsolete them? Will they throw a kill switch in macOS to make them unbootable to macOS? This is the importance of native ARM based Windows 11 and Linux.

No. They'll do what they do what they've done with Intel Macs, iPads, iPhones, iPod touches, and Apple Watches and just make it so that they can't run the latest software (and therefore have limited use as a day to day computer).