Apple Made Me Buy a Windows HP Workstation

[zephonic]

No. You have not given anything but vague "problems" you've experienced with Windows.

Haha, shifting goalposts. I thought I was not credible because of 'cracked copies', but now it is because I'm vague?

But okay, I'll limit myself to recent experiences with my wife's widely praised Dell XPS13 running Windows 8, and not bore everybody with tales of Vista, XP or 98. Just about every other week the Dell will be unable to connect to our home WiFi network. Nothing changes, every other device connects without fail, except for her laptop, and it was the same with her HP Thinkpad running Win7. When it is on the network, it will frequently fail to connect to the printer, and again, the same was true of her previous laptop.

I have more entertaining anecdotes about IRQ conflicts of the golden days, or OS freezes with XP or Vista, but hey, that's ancient history.

Her company has a rather large fulltime IT staff, and she spends a good amount of time on the phone with them. Sometimes I wonder if Windows' volatility isn't simply a 'feature' to keep millions of sys admins and tech support staff employed?
[doublepost=1464739400][/doublepost]

The very fact that Apple would put the word "Pro" after the iPad only shows how disconnected from reality the company has become. iPad Pro is an oxymoron at best. An iPad is in NO way a professional device.

What constitutes Pro?

I'm a DAW user, and the iPad can't run as many instances of my favorite VI's as a MacPro can. But for scoring, I can see how an app like Staffpad could be superior to anything available for OSX.

I imagine that an iPad with stylus would be a better fit for certain graphic designers than mouse/keyboard/computer.

Horses for courses and all that.

 

[ITguy2016]

Haha, shifting goalposts. I thought I was not credible because of 'cracked copies', but now it is because I'm vague?

No. I don't trust people who back peddle.

But okay, I'll limit myself to recent experiences with my wife's widely praised Dell XPS13 running Windows 8, and not bore everybody with tales of Vista, XP or 98. Just about every other week the Dell will be unable to connect to our home WiFi network. Nothing changes, every other device connects without fail, except for her laptop, and it was the same with her HP Thinkpad running Win7. When it is on the network, it will frequently fail to connect to the printer, and again, the same was true of her previous laptop.

It's your opinion Windows cannot reliably connect to a wireless network? It's your opinion this is the normal behavior for Windows systems? Do you give any consideration there may be another problem? One unrelated to Windows?

I have more entertaining anecdotes about IRQ conflicts of the golden days, or OS freezes with XP or Vista, but hey, that's ancient history.

Yes, ancient history. Why you would even bother to bring up XP or Vista when there have been five Windows releases since XP and four since Vista.

Her company has a rather large fulltime IT staff, and she spends a good amount of time on the phone with them. Sometimes I wonder if Windows' volatility isn't simply a 'feature' to keep millions of sys admins and tech support staff employed?

You feel that spending a good amount of time on the phone with them is a reflection on Windows and not something else? Do you really feel Microsoft developed Windows merely to keep SA's and tech support employed? If so you have your answer as to why I don't find you credible.

If you really are experiencing so many issues there's a bigger issue here. Probably completely unrelated to Windows. The fact you consider this normal behavior shows how biased you are.

 

[AidenShaw]

Win

Does Windows have issues? Certainly? Are they as bad as some Mac users say? Doubtful. If someone really is having a severe issue with Windows then I would hypothesize they've got an issue which needs corrected.

Well said.

My company has started to support Apple laptops as well as Windows laptops (Lenovo ThinkPads). It's been amusing to see that many of the people who switched because of "Windows issues" are having lots of problems with their Apple laptops. Maybe it's the people, and not the laptop. Maybe they click on popups without reading the text.

And, like you, I dismiss the people who only say "Windows horrific UI" without any backup info.

I've yet to find someone who's switched to Apple OSX from Windows who doesn't wish that the Finder would be rewritten to do what Windows Explorer can do. Apple should be embarrassed for Finder.

It's just annoying when people bring up Windows 3.1 and Windows 9x issues, and compare them to Apple OSX 10.11.... Compare current x64 systems - Windows 10 build <latest> to 10.11.<latest>.

BSODs, driver and DLL issues, and other things are relics from the past - anyone embarrasses themselves by bringing them up.

As an example, an engineer in our group who has a MacBook Pro for his email system and a triple-headed Windows 10 Dell Precision Workstation for real work recently had his system go unusable after a Windows update upgraded the driver for his ATI FirePro. System would boot, but about 30 seconds after logging in the screens would go black and enter power-save. "Last known good" didn't work, so I gave him a Quadro K620 that I'd pulled for an upgrade. He backed off the bad ATI driver, downloaded the latest driver from ATI, put the ATI FirePro back in, updated the driver, and SAME PROBLEM. Turned out that the ATI FirePro card crapped out on the power cycle associated with the Windows update. No operating system can compensate for crappy ATI hardware. (He now is happy with a GTX 960, and I made him apologize to Microsoft for his bad thoughts .)

 

[zephonic]

No. I don't trust people who back peddle.


It's your opinion Windows cannot reliably connect to a wireless network? It's your opinion this is the normal behavior for Windows systems? Do you give any consideration there may be another problem? One unrelated to Windows?



Yes, ancient history. Why you would even bother to bring up XP or Vista when there have been five Windows releases since XP and four since Vista.


You feel that spending a good amount of time on the phone with them is a reflection on Windows and not something else? Do you really feel Microsoft developed Windows merely to keep SA's and tech support employed? If so you have your answer as to why I don't find you credible.

If you really are experiencing so many issues there's a bigger issue here. Probably completely unrelated to Windows. The fact you consider this normal behavior shows how biased you are.

Backpedal? What?

It is not my opinion that Windows cannot reliably connect to a network. It is my experience. I'm not claiming anything beyond my personal (or our family's direct) experience.

You are cleverly rewording what I said to change the tone and meaning of my statement. I said "I wonder if it is all a feature to keep people employed." Seeing how your moniker is ITguy, I am beginning to understand why you take issue with that.

Sure, I have no problem if you want to attribute whatever to user failure. If the same user (me) doesn't have that problem with an OSX or iOS device, isn't that the whole point? That boneheaded cavemen (and women) like us get to use computers without having to consult the oracle every time something goes wrong?

To me it sounds like your logic is, because Windows works for you, me reporting differently simply cannot be valid, or it must be because we're stupid. But that's fine, bro. If I'm too stupid to use Windows, but just smart enough to use OSX, I'm perfectly fine using the latter and only dealing with the former infrequently.

 

[kucharsk]

Win
As an example, an engineer in our group who has a MacBook Pro for his email system and a triple-headed Windows 10 Dell Precision Workstation for real work recently had his system go unusable after a Windows update upgraded the driver for his ATI FirePro. System would boot, but about 30 seconds after logging in the screens would go black and enter power-save. "Last known good" didn't work, so I gave him a Quadro K620 that I'd pulled for an upgrade. He backed off the bad ATI driver, downloaded the latest driver from ATI, put the ATI FirePro back in, updated the driver, and SAME PROBLEM. Turned out that the ATI FirePro card crapped out on the power cycle associated with the Windows update. No operating system can compensate for crappy ATI hardware. (He now is happy with a GTX 960, and I made him apologize to Microsoft for his bad thoughts .)

Why would I ever want to hassle with all that driver updating you mention above?

Personally I don't want to have a multi-button mouse or trackpad, I don't know what people wish Finder would do - it works wonderfully for me, and love having my systems back up incrementally to my Time Capsule without issue.

Yes, these are all elements of running an all-Apple ecosystem, and these things could be done with Windows and third party NAS solutions but, once again, more headaches I don't need to deal with now.

 

[grahamperrin]

I've yet to find someone who's switched to Apple OSX from Windows who doesn't wish that the Finder would be rewritten to do what Windows Explorer can do. Apple should be embarrassed for Finder.

For what I do, Finder is close to perfect. I love it; I love its Miller columns.

iPad Pro is an oxymoron at best. An iPad is in NO way a professional device.

I do sometimes see iPads used by professionals, but I don't think of either iPad or iOS as a professional product. I guess that for future marketing, Apple already has some kind of sticky honeypot full of possible labels – ultra, plus, extreme, futura, NG and so on.

 

[ITguy2016]

Backpedal? What?

Yes, back peddling. You attempted to attribute your issues to the use of cracked copies of Windows. You then backed away from that attempt.

It is not my opinion that Windows cannot reliably connect to a network. It is my experience. I'm not claiming anything beyond my personal (or our family's direct) experience.

Despite hundreds or millions to billions of Windows deployments Windows cannot reliably used on a network? Is this really what you're trying to say?

You are cleverly rewording what I said to change the tone and meaning of my statement. I said "I wonder if it is all a feature to keep people employed." Seeing how your moniker is ITguy, I am beginning to understand why you take issue with that.

Sure, I have no problem if you want to attribute whatever to user failure. If the same user (me) doesn't have that problem with an OSX or iOS device, isn't that the whole point? That boneheaded cavemen (and women) like us get to use computers without having to consult the oracle every time something goes wrong?

To me it sounds like your logic is, because Windows works for you, me reporting differently simply cannot be valid, or it must be because we're stupid. But that's fine, bro. If I'm too stupid to use Windows, but just smart enough to use OSX, I'm perfectly fine using the latter and only dealing with the former infrequently.

The sheer absurdity of your statement (that Windows cannot reliably connect to a network) is enough to discount it. I can understand if you had one PC which was having connectivity issues. But all of them? Across different makes and models (I might give you a couple if it was the same manufacturer). I'm having a difficult time putting merit into your "experiences" because they don't pass the common sense test. For one person to have networking issues with multiple Windows systems and versions doesn't pass the common sense test.

 

[AidenShaw]

It is not my opinion that Windows cannot reliably connect to a network. It is my experience. I'm not claiming anything beyond my personal (or our family's direct) experience.

Are you using standard, quality networking gear, or Apple's?

I'm not questioning your experiences, but Windows does not have problems with networking for the vast majority. If you're having issues, look at your network.

 

[H2SO4]

Are you using standard, quality networking gear, or Apple's?

I'm not questioning your experiences, but Windows does not have problems with networking for the vast majority. If you're having issues, look at your network.

Me neither. In fact I stopped using wifi on Apple devices wherever I could after fighting for years and finding out it was the crappy wifi of the cMP that caused problems.
If it wasn’t the position of the wifi/BT antenna on the logic board, (to this day there still seems to be different ideas), the actual aluminim case itself killing signals or even just that for some reason the Mac seems to miss loads of networks where strangley enough a DosBox sitting right along side will pick them up???

 

[BB8]

I use Windows quite often, and I imagine most of the complaints about Windows here are born out of ignorance, but one issue that I think is undeniable is support for high dpi displays. It's been years since Apple started down the retina trend and yet scaling is still pretty much a crapshoot on Windows.

 

[AidenShaw]

I use Windows quite often, and I imagine most of the complaints about Windows here are born out of ignorance, but one issue that I think is undeniable is support for high dpi displays. It's been years since Apple started down the retina trend and yet scaling is still pretty much a crapshoot on Windows.

Have you tried a 4K display on Windows 10? The scaling is much, much better on 10 - although a few apps (like VM consoles) aren't scaled.

 

[bent christian]

I use Windows quite often, and I imagine most of the complaints about Windows here are born out of ignorance

Yup. Most issues with computer systems boil down to user error.

I use both OS platforms daily and I understand them. I have have near flawless experiences, every single day, with Win XP, Win 7, Mavericks, and El Cap. They do what they do, and I do what I do. No problems to speak of.

I remember back when I was taking classes that we would have constant networking issues with the Macs in the design labs. This was 2001 or 2002. I don't know what versions those would be. It's been years since and totally fine now.

 

[rockyromero]

I use Windows quite often, and I imagine most of the complaints about Windows here are born out of ignorance, but one issue that I think is undeniable is support for high dpi displays.

I installed W10 and it's wonderful.

Until it isn't.

Now it's on a perpetual reboot.

Yes, my ignorance.

W7 would just reboot and the world was well again.

My other W10 machines work well.

This is why I believe in multiple processors.

 

[jonen560ti]

I installed W10 and it's wonderful.

Until it isn't.

Now it's on a perpetual reboot.

Yes, my ignorance.

W7 would just reboot and the world was well again.

My other W10 machines work well.

This is why I believe in multiple processors.

Multiple procesors?`i hope you mean multiple machines or multiple OS`s

 

[rockyromero]

Multiple procesors?`i hope you mean multiple machines or multiple OS`s

Yes, different machines.

My W10 on a boot camp MAC working nicely.

I suspect driver issues on my Toshiba with W10.

 

[Bubba Satori]

The natives are getting restless.

Are we going to have a 900 day old Mac Pro party?

 

[pat500000]

The natives are getting restless.

Are we going to have a 900 day old Mac Pro party?

More like 1k day

 

[grahamperrin]

> … Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married, was once arrested, and smells a bit weird.

On the plus side, she didn't force Sam to buy a Windows HP Workstation.

 

[Mark Holmes]

Just to bring my thread back to original intent.... This has nothing to do with OS X vs Windows... Just wishing Apple would bring back a configurable tower Mac Pro... WWDC is right around the corner. Still hoping Apple proves me wrong with a new Mac Pro.

 

[tralfaz]

"We're second rate, and it's great" is the new battle cry. Being competitive is viewed as some weird obsession. A completely new set of Apple fans has moved in, they don't know or care about the company that used to strive to be unique.

Not unique! How can you say that. Apple makes a computer that is designed to run a specific set of apps that you can count on the fingers of one hand. I don't know of any other PC manufacturer doing anything like that. Seems pretty unique to me.

 

[Hellhammer]

MOD NOTE

The thread has been cleaned up. All off-topic posts and replies to such posts have been deleted. Please stay on the topic and avoid unnecessary banter.

 

[JeanLCP]

Just to bring my thread back to original intent.... This has nothing to do with OS X vs Windows... Just wishing Apple would bring back a configurable tower Mac Pro... WWDC is right around the corner. Still hoping Apple proves me wrong with a new Mac Pro.

If there will be no real new MacPro, the old ones will stay in the market for upgrades, we will spend more money on them, so probably more third-parties will provide us with still more upgrade-material (hard- and software) for a long time.

 

[ITguy2016]

Just to bring my thread back to original intent.... This has nothing to do with OS X vs Windows... Just wishing Apple would bring back a configurable tower Mac Pro... WWDC is right around the corner. Still hoping Apple proves me wrong with a new Mac Pro.

It's been a month and I would be interested in hearing how your migration from OS X to Windows has gone. Have you experienced any noteworthy issues?

 

[BornAgainMac]

Just to bring my thread back to original intent.... This has nothing to do with OS X vs Windows... Just wishing Apple would bring back a configurable tower Mac Pro... WWDC is right around the corner. Still hoping Apple proves me wrong with a new Mac Pro.

What about the software on Windows to replace the Mac software? There is having to purchase new software or learning new applications. What was your experience with that? My solution for the Mac Pro is to keep within the mainstream Mac machines that get refreshed more frequently. It isn't as optimal as the Mac Pro but it keeps me in Apple's eco system.

 

[Ethosik]

• Anti-virus: I have no anti-virus software on any of my Windows systems. They are all malware free. In fact I have a theory anti-virus may cause more problems than it solves.
• Drivers I'm not sure what you're referring to. I installed my OS and began to use it. No futzing with drivers at all. If I buy a new piece of hardware I install the driver and I'm good to go. Never really think much about drivers.
  
• Interface: Purely subjective and one which, IME, is the catch all of the anti-Windows crusaders because it cannot be proven or disproven. But I'm willing to hear what your objections to it are that make it "horrific".

Two words: Power Shell. Research it, understand it, learn it. Very powerful.


If they're happy that's all that matters.
[doublepost=1464702395][/doublepost]
This strength can also be a weakness. Given the vast choices of hardware it's impossible for Microsoft to be able to test even a minuscule fraction of combinations. Frankly I'm surprised it works as well as it does given the vast number of combinations available. However it's been my experience if one buys a system off the shelf it generally performs well without issue as the manufacturer has done all of the testing.

It's also been my experience people who try to "fix" Windows tend to cause more problems than they solve. Thus creating their problems. I agree with you there is no reason one cannot use and forget Windows. It works quite well.


Agree with this.

He is right on some level. My family members are constantly dealing with malware. As a gamer, I constantly need to deal with constant driver updates. Sometimes bad drivers that I need to uninstall and use drivers two, three, or four releases ago in order for my card to work. That is not specifically a Windows issue. But when I run games on OS X, I do not need to deal with that stuff.