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ITguy2016

Suspended
May 25, 2016
736
581
Since this is a Mac forum, if they come here to announce they got a Mac you welcome then and give them advice... if on the other end they come here to moan about windows yes the treatment is the same.....
Yes the MP is not the best, and it is history repeating itself as you noticed (it is not the first time the MP has not been updated) hence my statement buy what suits your need the best!
Apple hasn't given up on anything, they are a business and will go where the money are, probably the Pro market is not so important to them, If i remember correctly they started as a consumer company... and their biggest market is consumer (iGadgets).
Again there's nothing wrong really with using a PC!!!!
My comment wasn't about using a PC. It was about the concerns Mac Pro users are expressing regarding the lack of attention Apple has given the Mac Pro. Why do you feel the need to criticize people who have a vested interest (several being business owners who have built their workflow around the Mac ecosystem) in the Mac Pro voicing their concerns about this? Is this not a forum for people to discuss the Mac Pro? Do the ToS state there is to be no criticism of the Mac Pro or Apple for neglecting it?

IMO this is an important issue. When you have people who use the Mac Pro and /or want a Mac Pro jumping ship, or voicing they're contemplating doing so, to an alternative platform that would be of concern to me. Whether Apple reads these forums or not these people want to voice their concerns. It's not as if companies haven't responded to Internet posts from their customers. If no one posts it's guaranteed Apple won't hear.
 

tuxon86

macrumors 65816
May 22, 2012
1,321
477
And they can do so without moaning about...it's not the end of life ..... buy the machine that suits your needs better, it won't make you a good / bad person to use another OS or another brand, and it won't make Apple change their business plan if few people buy a PC.....there will be someone on the other side that will be fed up with windows and will switch to Mac...as it was and as it will always be.

Or you can skip these thread and spare us the fanboyism melodrama
 

tuxon86

macrumors 65816
May 22, 2012
1,321
477
"Apple made me buy" seems to me more fanboyism than anything else.....but whatever!!!
"Apple stop producing one of the two pro model that they have, thus they made me switch to another plateform in order to continue being productive". See this is more a true reflection of the subject of this thread.
 
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H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,841
7,114
http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/ from the license for El Capitan:



At some point in the future I'll probably ignore the license and occasionally run Contacts in Mavericks in a VirtualBox VM whilst a Mac gathers dust alongside a preferred non-Apple notebook.
Cheers, I see these two snippets;

  • Preinstalled and Single-Copy Apple Software License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you obtained the Apple Software from the Mac App Store or under a volume license, maintenance or other written agreement from Apple, you are granted a limited, non- exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple- branded computer at any one time.
  • (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software,
Sounds like you’d qualify anyway?
 
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ITguy2016

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May 25, 2016
736
581
"Apple made me buy" seems to me more fanboyism than anything else.....but whatever!!!
I think you're interpreting that far too literal merely for the sake of arguing (or in one word: trolling). Anyone with common sense wouldn't reach the conclusion Apple forcibly made him do this. The common sense interpretation is Apple has neglected the Mac Pro to the point where some people feel they have no choice but to switch to alternatives.
 

8692574

Suspended
Mar 18, 2006
1,244
1,926
says the guy whose signature reads like an Apple product catalog...
In PC forum my signature states what PC stuff I have...since this is a Mac forum...... thanks for trying though!
Let's keep it on topic, my signature is not the subject of the thread, feel free to open one about it if you will, I'll happily shed more lights on it ;)
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
… Sounds like you’d qualify anyway?

There's insistence on using Mac hardware for the virtual machine.

… The biggest problem that you have trying to run OSX in a VM outside of the mac ecosphere is the lack of additional drivers package meaning that your VM is barelly functionnal (no GPU acceleration, no sound, no network).

From what I have done with VirtualBox, I can't imagine a problem with audio or networking. But I'll bear that in mind, thanks.
 

Macist

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2009
784
462
Boy, this has strayed off topic. It is not meant to be a flame war between Windows and OS X. I started the thread to point out that Apple's lack of hardware updates forced me to buy a Windows machine.
That being said, I have both the HP workstation and my old Mac Pro running happily side by side. Different tools for different jobs. The Mac is great for day to day stuff, photo editing, some video finish work and the like. The HP workstation is for the serious stuff, 4K video editing etc.
It just makes me sad that Apple seems to be ceding that kind of work to other companies.

I used to be a massive Apple evangelist. When Mac OS X hit and quickly developed to become such a beautiful OS combining the best of UNIX with polish Linux couldn't get near yet with all the mainstream productivity and design apps I was in 7th heaven.

Mac OS X is still good but the Mac product range sucks. Ok, the MBP is still beautiful but, hey, have you seen recent Dell XPSes? The other MacBooks are so-so, the skinny one has a crap keyboard. The iMac is nice if you appreciate that kind of thing. The MacPro is silly, silly, silly and way out of date. iOS is okay I guess but Music is rubbish, iTunes is an industry joke now, iCloud is anaemic. Never seen a Watch in the wild and it seems stupid to me.

Nothing Apple does, aside from Mac OS X, means that much to me. I too have to upgrade from my desktop and laptop soon. Actually, I wanted to upgrade them 18 months ago but chose to max them out instead as I just couldn't see what I needed and felt I should be making a hackintosh or going Windows. It is sad that it's come to this.
 
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Mark Holmes

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 22, 2010
144
631
San Diego CA
"Apple stop producing one of the two pro model that they have, thus they made me switch to another plateform in order to continue being productive". See this is more a true reflection of the subject of this thread.
Well, first of all that doesn't fit in the subject line, secondly, I clarified my subject line extensively in the original post, and finally, it must have been the perfect thread title, given the attention this thread has received. It has 484 responses, garnered a separate Blog article, and a related discussion in an Apple related podcast.
My point was to get Apple's attention. If that kind of response doesn't do it, Apple has bigger problems than its languishing product line.
 

rockyromero

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2015
468
147
The MacPro is silly, silly, silly and way out of date.

I read that Apple will be taking the silliness out of the Mac Pro, maybe Q3.

Although, as a semi Pro user, my nMP is consistent, reliable, and efficient.

It hasn't acted silly on me yet.

Never seen a Watch in the wild and it seems stupid to me.

I know.

I keep the Apple Watch face on the inside wrist when I'm running or biking or out and about.

In some ways this COW (computer on wrist) is an extension of my wife's need for attention and I respond immediately. That's marriage, separate thread.

All in all, silliness is actually welcomed in my life.
 

tuxon86

macrumors 65816
May 22, 2012
1,321
477
Well, first of all that doesn't fit in the subject line, secondly, I clarified my subject line extensively in the original post, and finally, it must have been the perfect thread title, given the attention this thread has received. It has 484 responses, garnered a separate Blog article, and a related discussion in an Apple related podcast.
My point was to get Apple's attention. If that kind of response doesn't do it, Apple has bigger problems than its languishing product line.

I'm on your side... It was an attempt at defending you :p
 

flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
5,580
2,657
newyorkcity
Hopefully the feedback of mac pro at apple site helps...(hopefully).

best feedback option found here:

Screen Shot 2016-05-27 at 11.17.57 PM.png


... i mean, if you all want to offer your gripes in writing then i think that's great.. those lines of communication should definitely be in place and i'm glad they are. (i too send feedback and/or requests to apple).
but, i also hope these gripes are reinforced by the diagnostic data before any serious action occurs based on the words.
 
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pat500000

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Jun 3, 2015
8,523
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best feedback option found here:

View attachment 633267


... i mean, if you all want to offer your gripes in writing then i think that's great.. those lines of communication should definitely be in place and i'm glad they are. (i too send feedback and/or requests to apple).
but, i also hope these gripes are reinforced by the diagnostic data before any serious action occurs based on the words.
You know...I never thought about that. Thanks. In fact, my next feedback in writing is going to be adding os x feature "ability to type your feedback to the engineers" under diagnostic and usage tab. That would be nice.
 
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FlashPoint

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2016
7
2
Did you bought HP Z640 plus a monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers for $3,000.00?
As I know Mac pro come with all of them at once, so difference in price is logical.
But about wide variety of tools and plugins, I prefer a windows PC.
 

itsamacthing

macrumors 6502a
Sep 26, 2011
896
514
Bangkok
And the thing Apple forgets, is their pro users serve as more than another group of customers. We are, or were their evangelists, the ones who spread the word about how great Apple products are. The member of the family, or the one of the group of friends who people would go to for tech advice. I increasingly have a hard time pointing people to the Apple store...
I recommended so many people to buy a mac back in the early 2000s that I even got credit in a book for it. Apple was embracing open standards and they were really different, something better. Today, I tell people to look at Windows. Windows 8.1 is totally stable, very fast, efficient, productive as OSX.. in the last few years since using it at my desktop, it's never crashed. MS office crashes, but it does on my Mac too. There are more fine. For my wife, a MacBook is great... but for Pros, they sell Pro computers that are for people who do know what Pro products are. The MacBook Pro is not a pro machine, it's a consumer machine.

Waiting to see what comes out in June, and then probably going to make a switch with all my photography if it's not really innovative. MacBook for emails, chats, cal, photo management between devices. But I will get a real pro mobile workstation to work on my images ..

Tim is too busy in India/China to really know what is going on because they only care about selling more iPhones

I feel like they should spin off the computer division and let someone else run it
 

Marshall73

macrumors 68030
Apr 20, 2015
2,713
2,837
You know, there is a lot of turnover in the mobile phone industry. Companies that are dominant one day can find themselves facing irrelevancy the next. Just ask RIM/BlackBerry, Palm, Nokia, etc.

Someday, the iPhone will no longer be insanely popular. In fact, we are seeing the beginning of this now with the declining iPhone shipments, I think. When this decline accelerates, Apple is going to have to figure how they are going to keep making cash, and they will probably look towards the Mac. (After all, the iPad is probably their most in danger product line right now.) Of course, by that time they will have driven away some of their best customers with the trash can that they didn't update for years on end, and the professional line of notebooks that they decided to assemble with copious amounts of glue and solder. They should be listening to their customers, especially the ones who kept the lights on back in the mid-to-late 1990's when they were known as "beleaguered Apple Computer" and trying to stave off bankruptcy. What Apple is doing is very short sighted, especially when they have more resources than ever to dedicate to their products.

Phone customers can be very fickle. But, do you know tends to be more loyal? That's right! Professional customers who depend on your hardware and software for their livelihoods, and not people that may stop buying your products just because the screen doesn't have a curved edge.

Canning Aperture? ASANINE!
Angering all of their customers who edit professional-level video with Final Cut Pro X? STUPID!
Turning the Mac Pro into something that can only be upgraded minimally? FOOLISH!
Not updating the Mac Pro for 3 years? MORONIC!
Soldering RAM onto the logic board of a professional level notebook? IDIOTIC!

The overall "State of the Mac" is abysmal. There used to be a time when you could tell someone you was considering switching to Mac to go and buy almost any machine they wanted from Apple. You definitely can't do that today. You have to tell this person all of the models to avoid, like the Mid 2012 MacBook Pro (complete with optical drive and mechanical hard drive) that they are still selling for around $1200. Or, the MacBook Air which is woefully out-of-date with it's gigantic bezels and horrible TN display panel that wouldn't even be fit for a $200 Chromebook. And don't forget about the entry level iMac's which come standard with 5400 RPM hard drives! There is also the 15" MBP, which is still currently selling for over $2000 with a processor that's two generations old.

Someday, I think that Apple will regret turning their backs on these types of consumers (even if they certainly aren't numerous). If may not be today, or even tomorrow, but I do think it will eventually happen, and they will have no one to blame except for themselves. I, myself, am far closer to a regular consumer and am not a pro by any stretch. But even I am not happy now. I want to replace my 2011 MBP with a new model, but buying a $2500 machine without user upgradeable storage and RAM is off-putting.

Good on you for buying that HP machine. Honestly, Apple doesn't deserve your business anymore, and it sounds like you found a machine that suits you needs better.

Wow, feel better now, that's a load of hate, glad you were able to unload. Maybe you should realise that the focus of Apple is not the high end video guys anymore.
 
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Brad9893

macrumors 6502
Feb 8, 2010
496
1,470
Hiding Under the Genius Bar
Wow, feel better now, that's a load of hate, glad you were able to unload. Maybe you should realise that the focus of Apple is not the high end video guys anymore.

Load of hate? You've got to be kidding me. I'm not a professional or a "high end video guy", and I love Apple and own nothing but their products, however that doesn't mean that criticism isn't warranted. Everything I've said is true, and most people are cognizant of this. I know that Apple's focus isn't the high end PC market anymore, which is a decision made without an ounce of foresight.

I understand that the people who the Mac Pro is marketed towards isn't profitable or large, but they bring something to the Apple ecosystem that neither I, nor any regular, average person with an iPhone could ever hope to. They impart a sense of legitimacy that isn't found anywhere else. Regular people see that these professional users are using Apple's products and often look towards Apple too (though usually their consumer lines). After all, if Apple makes products that professionals use, then they must be a good company that makes high quality products, right? I mean, I want to buy the products that the pros use. And if these pros are no longer satisfied with Apple for their workhorse PC's and are forced to look outside the Apple ecosystem for different computers, it could eventually contribute to them looking elsewhere for phones and tablets as well. If they switch to Android for these devices, then they will also leave Apple's services behind. This means they sell fewer iPhones, get less revenue from the App Store and iCloud, etc. Less activity on the App Store could see developers prioritizing Android over iOS, which could result in fewer apps for iPhone that are of lower quality. And it's not just the small pro segment either; they are influential and may start to convert their families and friends away from Apple too, and so on.

The customers who have traditionally been the target for the Mac Pro aren't stuck in a vacuum, separated from the rest of Apple's customers. You cannot just remove them and expect everything else to stay the same. It doesn't work like that in 2016 where everything is interconnected and companies are increasingly selling products based on the strength of their ecosystems. Pro users are part of a greater whole, and letting the Pro products languish easily could result in a cascading effect that could affect Apple in a very negative way. After all, a house of cards can come crumbling down if you remove just one. Will this happen overnight? No, of course not! But it could happen slowly over time, and I think we are starting to see this.

Perhaps I am being overly dramatic, but regardless of that, Apple has made some very foolish decisions. I mean, why cede markets (like video production and design) that you are extremely influential, if not dominant in? With Final Cut Pro X, Apple drove many people to competitor products. It's the same with the canning of Aperture. They took an entire customer base and handed them over on a silver platter to Adobe. A company with even a little bit of wisdom would only do this as a last resort. And come on, Apple has about eleventy billion trillion dollars, and they wouldn't have to do anything as a last resort. Even if it's not profitable, they could easily keep a small team working on either making these products not suck for their intended consumers or in keeping products extant (and competitive) in the first place. This would be the smart thing as it would keep them as diverse as possible. (This would incredibly smart because Apple is seen as a one trick pony with the iPhone. If the iPhone goes bust, then what?) Tim Cook went on the record during his recent interview with Jim Kramer and said that money wasn't the important thing, but we all know it is. If money wasn't the important thing, then Apple would still be giving it their all with Pro products.

Oh, and one last reason why it's smart to invest in pro products: loyalty. Which do you think is more loyal? That "high end video guy" who buys Apple hardware and software for his video production business, or a sorority girl who bought an iPhone because it was a pretty pink color?
 
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