My hunch => When it comes to music and accessories, Apple caters to the mass consumer market and for that market their vision is Spatial Audio. I suspect this was also play a big part in their AR / VR hardware efforts as well. When it comes to the audiophile market that cares about lossless, they probably have no issue letting them be taken care of by 3rd party hardware providers. Again, that's just my hunch.
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Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?
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I can tell the difference at loud volumes, particularly with heavy metal, but other genres as well. With lossy ... the clarity of the drums is particularly noticeable ... like cymbals. The quality doesn't break down at loud volumes with lossless and it doesn't require a fancy sound system to recognize it. For most modern music, things are recorded a LOT better now. At normal volumes I cannot tell the difference to save my life, but once I crank it up, that's when little things start to bug me. One thing I can notice the difference is with Spotify and Apple Music AAC. Some songs just sound grainy on Spotify and are much clearer on Apple Music, but I'm not sure if this has to do with sound quality, compression, or the default output settings the apps utilize. Spotify even says the music quality will break down at loud volumes and they have a setting to try and prevent this. This is an issue that you don't need to worry about with lossless. It's crystal clear at all volumes. But with the volume level I'm listening to music, I'm going to be deaf in a couple decades.
No Bluetooth doesn't support. But you can still use WiFi and some apps on your phone do a good job to 'push' files from your NAS to your receiver retaining the full format. And for that you don't even have to 'set' the output signal of your computer to the right resolution...... ( to prevent high res files are switched back to low-res by the output of your computer...... ;-)
Its really really really really hard for people to tell a diff at the upper echelon of technical audio quality.
Its pretty much impossible for people to tell a diff with their actual equipment, in their actual listening environment and scenario (e.g. listening on earpods walking to lunch).
I stream Amazon Music at up to 24-bit 192kHz, digital signal goes to JD labs DAC and amplifier, powering Etymotic ER4 in ear monitors as well as Sennheiser HD650 headphones…
sitting on the couch quietly at home, carefully going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth on master classical recordings, pink floyd, etc, i can hardly pick out the hi-res stuff from lower quality stuff.
hell, cant even do the same thing listening to FLAC (=lossless) versus 192kbps MP3s (=lossy).
audiology test (like, from actual labs) says i have good hearing. no tinnitus, hearing loss, etc.
But maybe there are people out there with much better hearing than I do. But for people bemoaning that they dont have HiRes Lossless on their Homepods or something….lol! If you want to put money on a blind ABX test im happy to take your cash!
Its pretty much impossible for people to tell a diff with their actual equipment, in their actual listening environment and scenario (e.g. listening on earpods walking to lunch).
I stream Amazon Music at up to 24-bit 192kHz, digital signal goes to JD labs DAC and amplifier, powering Etymotic ER4 in ear monitors as well as Sennheiser HD650 headphones…
sitting on the couch quietly at home, carefully going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth on master classical recordings, pink floyd, etc, i can hardly pick out the hi-res stuff from lower quality stuff.
hell, cant even do the same thing listening to FLAC (=lossless) versus 192kbps MP3s (=lossy).
audiology test (like, from actual labs) says i have good hearing. no tinnitus, hearing loss, etc.
But maybe there are people out there with much better hearing than I do. But for people bemoaning that they dont have HiRes Lossless on their Homepods or something….lol! If you want to put money on a blind ABX test im happy to take your cash!
Most people don't hear by the price of their equipment. They hear with their ears. And as an audio professional, working in the industry for many years, I know there are technicians and there are technicians...
And if you really can't hear the difference that you talk about, then I ma affraid there is something not completely well. Because the difference should be clear.
A stereo recording of 44.1 kHz at 16 bit results in two channels of 22.05Khz Whereas the minimum for good quality should be more than double the maximum audible frequency. A stereo signal should therefor have a minimum of 88.2Khz. Remember that the first tests on this matter were performed around 1865 or such a time. At Bell labs. And they worked with mono-signals. And in 1865 the audio with which they performed their tests was of a different quality than todays.
i beg to differ, especially in this scenario using heavy metal and played at loud columes.
the speed/attack of the music and the loudness of, well , all the instruments would overwhelm your senses to be able to pick out the nuances.
its sort of like trying to judge wines by chugging big gulps instead of taking small, light sips.
i suggest possibly the equipment itself is introducing the distortion when you play it loud, exascerbating any effect? or that the recording itself was so poorly done with high over gain, it loses dynamic range, introduces clipping, etc, which again gets exaggerated at volume.
audio topics become big personal flame wars quickly though so i dont want to push my 2c too hard. to each their own and in the end its what we (think we) enjoy that really matters.
Ditch the headphones..... Listen to speakers! And use recordings recorded by enthousiasts!On headphones you only hear left right mumbo. But stereo only develops when the sound of the left speaker can reach you right ear too. (and vice versa) Don;t use an USB DAC if you use one. But be sure that your audio chain is in sync with the clock signal.
Most SPDIF, ethernet, WiFi and HDMI connections can do this. However some USB connections can do a good job but I don't like em.
this is not how it works, at all. sampling rate isnt additive like that.
you are right in alluding to the nyquist sampling theorem. you need to sample at twice the rate of the signal to reconstruct the signal perfectly. in other words store at 88kHz to capture perfectly 44khz.
however the stereo part has nothing to do with that. you are probably thinking of data rate or something similar. 2 channels = twice the rate.
44khz khz is sampling frequency and 16 is bit depth (or precision of each sample). this combo is in fact the long time CD standard.
if youre saying what youre saying, youre saying that CD audio playing stereo signal for decades have not been able to play sounds (=pitch/tones) above 11khz ….which is utterly wrong
this equipment has very very low jitter.
moreover , stereo separation and soundstage isnt the point of focus here.
talking mainly about audio fidelity — the accuracy of the reproduction. and on this topic, dollar for dollar headphones provide more faithful playback. not to mention it eliminates all the other variables such as room acoustic, speaker placement, etc etc which distorts the story
I know nothing about him. His analysis, however, is the only one I’ve found that does an in-depth analysis of the DAC in the adapter.
I hope you are right but Apple isn't clear. From the announcement page:
Apple TV doesn't have USB port, at least not on the 4K versions. While HDMI is completely capable of passing 24-bit 192 kHz LPCM multi-channel audio, Apple TV's specifications page doesn't specify LPCM nor Hi-Res Lossless among the compatible audio formats:
I am not stickler when it comes to Hi-Res Lossless, or even CD-quality lossless for that matter. But if you went through the trouble of offering the format and the hardware is capable, Apple should go the extra distance and enable it.
Apple TV seems entirely capable of Hi-Res Lossless. And HomePod and HomePod mini already support Lossless, so they should absolutely support Apple Music Lossless as well, and maybe even Hi-Res if they are capable.
LOL ,that was fun
I tried to concentrate on particular parts but I only caught minuscule differences couple of times (or so I taught) then lost it during other trials with same song.I guess I'll continue to be happy with Apple Music on my Beats solo pro
This is correct. It would be incorrect to say HomePods do not support lossless, when in fact they have supported it right from the start. The correct way is to say that they don't support high res lossless (Anything above 16/48hz). The fact that even Apple muddles this has made this launch a confusing mess.
I have no qualms with anything you're saying. I would associate it with the equipment if the high volume breakdown wasn't consistent across multiple sound systems, but it is definitely a lot cleaner with lossless at organ-wrenching volume. This isn't a typical scenario for many people, but I like obnoxiously loud metal when I'm working out. I can't tell the difference whatsoever at normal volume, though.
This post should just be repeated over and over until people get it
Ok, I’m technical but not in this field. Sounds like loseless audio is just compressed original ? Like zipping a file? And a device capable of it is just “unzipping” on the fly? So if bandwidth is not a concern here and the AirPods can just stream an original, where is the benefit ? Data saving ? I read the obligatory Wikipedia article on the format. Doesn’t sound like an issue here.
I beg to differ. At least when parked, Tidal sounds much better to me than Apple Music on my 2019 X5's B&W system.
There is "lossless" CD quality and then there is lossless studio quality.
I wrote about this earlier. If you look at your catalog of music, there are some songs that are hard to tell the difference and there are some songs that are easy to hear the difference. I actually got 4/5 on the lossless quiz that I did, but I certainly agree with you that on the specific quizzes, they are designed to be hard and they have chosen songs accordingly, but there are also plenty of songs that are not even close to the same quality. I do work in audio, and it is possible that’s why it matters to me, who knows.Well you can easily prove your golden ears that apparently can even spot the difference on "in between lossy and lossless codecs"
I look forward to seeing you get 100% as it's SO EASY.
Here's two
Is your audio system really ready for lossless?
Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy audioabx.digitalfeed.net
How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?
A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.www.npr.org
Good luck!
For example, in the car today, I listen to ”Synchronicity II and Message in a Bottle from “The Police Live“ Live from Atlanta 1983. I did a back and forth test on those songs between Apple Music and then the CD, and it is not even remotely close. The clarity on the CD is far beyond the Apple Music file. Not even close
Yes true:
This adaptor is also available as a standalone accessory (for less than €10!) which means that it can be used by any Apple smartphone or tablet that features a Lightning connector. We managed to ged hold of one to check out its audio reproduction capabilities, and to try to find out whether it is compatible with Hi-Res audio, as this kind of audio output has generally been limited to 16-bit/48kHz with previous Apple products.
The answer comes easy - it is indeed compatible, because it features a Cirrus Logic CS42L42chip, a 24-bit codec that supports 24-bit audio up to 192kHZ with low power consumption, combined with an integrated headphone amplifier that boasts an output of 2×35mW at 30Ω. You can even get a kit from Cirrus Logic, a rapid development platform for Lightning® connected digital headsets, and part of the MFi programme (Made for iPhone/iPod/iPad).