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Apple Pulls WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, and Threads From App Store in China Following Order

JitteryJimmy said:
Time for US citizens to say bye-bye to TikTok.
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It makes more sense to ban Telegram. It most likely a Russian app although its exact pedigree is hidden. It has a long history of supporting terrorist activities and organizations around the world (except in Russia). It is an international haven for criminal activity. It flouts international attempts to trace and prosecute human traffickers, drug dealers and pedophiles. When some kook or organization carries out horrendous act, Telegram is where the publish their manifestos and gruesome videos. Not TikTok, not Facebook.

And if you want to ban TikTok then you HAVE to do something about Meta and Google. They are known to collect all the same information and they are willing to sell it to anybody (including any foreign government). At least TikTok only supplies data to the Chinese government
 
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Telegram themselves don’t sponsor anything illegal. It’s just an encrypted platform that awful people choose to use. That’s on them, not Telegram. We can say peanut butter and the spoon are evil for making people obese, but we know better. It’s the person who can’t stop eating it scoop after scoop. No different with Telegram. The vast majority of users are good intentioned, going to take it away from everyone because a bad minority choose to abuse it? A group of Russians creating an app that lets them talk without the Russian government (or any others, at that matter) spy on them continually. A truly novel idea that only those who support censorship would be against.
 
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Unami said:
Just uninstall whatsapp. And no, text messages come through the message app. Whatsapp only uses your phone number to identify and track you.
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Oh that did get rid of the option. Thanks. I didn't even know the Facebook app could tell I had it installed. I guess it knows everything it possibly can about you and your phone.
 
laptech said:
And that is why Apple is one of the most disgraceful companies in the world. When they feel they are wronged in countries that have democracy and an established well used functioning rule of law Apple will use such countries law's to try and get their way but when it comes to China, a country well known for hacking other countries IT systems, theft of company and state secrets, the worlds No.1 one producer of fake/illegal/counterfeit goods, a country with one of the worlds worst human rights records and yet instead of saying they do not want to be associated with a country with such appalling behaviour, Apple bends over backwards to make sure they have a continued presence in China. The recent removal of the social media apps proves that with Apple responding with they obey the laws in the country even if they disagree with them.

As a business Apple is within a group of the worlds worst for one reason and one reason only when it comes to China, extremely cheap labour, millions upon millions of it and a country that has little to no effective employee law protection. Perfect for the tens of thousands of companies that do business with China on a daily basis.

If the EU or the US had done what China had done in banning the apps you know full well Apple would have taken the matter to court saying that governments are wrong to intervene in the business affairs of private companies but when the Chinese government does it, Apple has no problem what so ever agreeing to what ever the Chinese government wants.
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Not matter how many words are posted the above opinion, imo, nonsense.
 
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Ursadorable said:
Isn't Apple moving its manufacturing centers from China to India?
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That's just assembly, all components are shipped to (let's say) India where the final assembly takes place.

Look up the list of Apple's suppliers on Apple's website and you'll see that the majority are in mainland China. If these companies stop supplying parts to Apple, they might as well close up shop. Tim Cook also spoke about the myth that iPhones are just assembled in China. Most parts are also made in China.
 
laptech said:
Look at the crap Apple has been giving the EU for the past months/year over it's DMA (Digital Markets Act) requirements, they have moaned, complained, gone to court, still moaned and complained, rumoured to leave the EU if Apple was forced to comply with certain rulings and yet when China tells Apple to comply with it's rulings/law, Apple complies with nothing more than 'we comply with the law even if we disagree'. That is not exactly how Apple behaved with the EU was it. Just goes to show how important China is to Apple because when China say's 'jump' Apple replies with 'how High'. When the EU tells Apple to 'jump', Apple replies with 'F off, we'll see you in court'.
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EU created "directives" which could be taken in any way you wanted to achieve their end goal - directives written in such a way that they were literally every shade of grey between black and white and thus require clarification, hearings etc... on whether the method the company has chosen is acceptable to the EU.

Other countries have passed simple laws outright banning the distribution of certain apps, which Apple complied with.
 
DaPhox said:
People celebrating EUs control must be super excited about this too? :)
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This is such a stupid take. Obviously this is a bad, but remember that this is only a problem because of Apples walled garden. If the App Store wasn't the only way to install apps on iPhones, then yeah China could exert its influence to get Apple to remove it from the store, but the people in China that need these apps would still be able to install them from the internet.
 
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Chuckeee said:
[...] then you HAVE to do something about Meta and Google. They are known to collect all the same information and they are willing to sell it to anybody (including any foreign government) [...]
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Thats exactly what EU is doing but 80% of macrumors is complaining about lol.

Just that they added Apple (and Amazon) on that list. - In fact, this privacy feature from Apple is dumb as well.
 
Where are the watery-eyed testimonials of supposed Chinese citizens moaning the loss of their favorite messenger because of evil government regulation?

Apple, can’t you do better than just silently comply with a totalitarian regime? I know you have it in you to turn this into a pamphlet explaining the dangers of loss of messenger variety 😂
 
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I7guy said:
Apple follows all applicable local statutes. That isn’t a surprise to anyone.
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In other countries, it appeals, it protests, it releases press statements as to why the particular law is bad for people and how it is doing so in protest. In China, not a squeak of protest. China says "jump", Apple says "how high". No press statements at all.
I7guy said:
Yes. The return on a company for providing a service is $$$.
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Or rent seeking as some people call.
I7guy said:
Apple is pretty good about following local laws when they are made clear enough. (Looking at you EU)
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Apple clearly understands the law and that is why it carefully tries to sidestep as many provisions of the law as possible and hence maliciously complies with the law. Even a blind man can see the shenanigans that Apple goes through to maliciously comply.
I7guy said:
Yes, already established.

The ruling in china was very straightforward remove an app. A procedure that has been done before.

The ruling in EU was ambiguous and was meant to give competition to the apple ecosystem for no $$$ to the competition thus depriving apple of its rightful revenue. In addition apple didnt wasn’t to create a situation where iPhones were used for terrorism, csam, sedition, and etc without someway to stop that. But posters who are quick to criticize apple for everything miss that point.
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The laws are clear in both cases. That is evident from how carefully Apple has designed its malicious compliance. Apple knows China will not argue. It will not explain the law to Apple. Apple will make every effort to understand the stated and implied intent of the laws because it knows that it is not going to quit but there is every chance China will kick it out if it does not comply with the intent of the law. It is still trying out these shenanigans in the EU because it has not yet been fined 10%. If you remember, Apple tried the same shenanigans in the Dutch ACM court and was fined $5 million for every week of noncompliance. Apple caved in and paid a $50 million fine. Suddenly the law became crystal clear to Apple. That is what Apple understands.
I7guy said:
It’s not. Check apples news feed to see what they do outside of apple even if posters disagree with their philanthropic efforts.
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Every company does CSR activities. Every company thinks that they can wash out the stink of their other business practices by projecting the good that they do with these activities. It is an advertisement.
I7guy said:
No ethics and privacy are about doing the right thing. The above is a jaded comment that is more reflective of the post than apple.
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So, it was ethical for Apple to give the encryption keys to Chinese government? But it talks about ethics and privacy in other countries? Can you believe it?


I7guy said:
Why should apple operate in a locale where there is not revenue. Makes no sense to even say that.
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Who is even asking Apple to operate in any locale? Let it not destroy other businesses and people's rights anywhere it operates. It is just a corporate. There were better corporates before it and there will be some after it ceases to exist. It is not a necessity in life.
 
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Chuckeee said:
ban Telegram. It most likely a Russian app although its exact pedigree is hidden. It has a long history of supporting terrorist activities and organizations around the world (except in Russia)
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Way off-base.

Domestic terrorism was the reason why Russia sought to ban Telegram in the country.
 
koil said:
This is such a stupid take. Obviously this is a bad, but remember that this is only a problem because of Apples walled garden. If the App Store wasn't the only way to install apps on iPhones, then yeah China could exert its influence to get Apple to remove it from the store, but the people in China that need these apps would still be able to install them from the internet.
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Last I checked, android phones were still available in China, they can be had for way cheaper, and users would be able to sideload their choice of VPN or chat app. It’s not like iPhone is the only phone model available for sale in China.
 
I7guy said:
Not matter how many words are posted the above opinion, imo, nonsense.
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Not matter how many words are posted in that response, it is devoid of any factual argument or willingness to engage in discussion.
Abazigal said:
Last I checked, android phones were still available in China, they can be had for way cheaper, and users would be able to sideload their choice of VPN or chat app.
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The ethical thing - if they care about human rights - would be for Apple to enable sideloading on their phones.
 
I7guy said:
Only the government guarantees freedom of speech. And even that guarantee is not without stipulations. For private enterprise there is no guarantee of freedom of speech. Companies may do what’s best for their bottom line as long as all applicable laws are followed.
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Only government guarantees fair competition. And that guarantee is not without stipulations in law. Companies may do what’s best for their bottom line as long as all applicable laws are followed.
 
chmania said:
Are you suggesting that human rights are "cared for" in the country you live in?
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Sideloading is no human right and human rights don't depend on sideloading.
But I believe there is (or should be) a human right for private communication.

If a government tries to take that away by banning the devices/tools that enable private communication, the ethical thing for a company is to make them accessible and free them government control.
 
AppliedMicro said:
The ethical thing - if they care about human rights - would be for Apple to enable sideloading on their phones.
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In my opinion, people have the ability to decide for themselves what matters more to them. Like I said, if being able to download WhatsApp is so important to a Chinese citizen, they should still be able to pick up a cheap android phone and sideload said app (I do assume this functionality is accessible to android phones in China?).

Not to mention that those apps still remain available on existing iPhones, and users can presumably still continue using them. I really don't see this as an ethical dilemma when we are talking about purely optional consumer products that people have the option to avoid if it doesn't meet their needs.

And from personal experience, even being able to sideload those apps onto an iPhone may not help much. I recall my colleagues bringing a bunch of students to China for an overseas excursion in June and because the trip happened to close to the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square incident, all communications were locked down and they had great difficulty contacting anyone outside of China. No emails, no messaging apps, even iMessage took forever to reach me just so I could update our school blog. Perhaps a VPN would have helped circumvent those restrictions? It was many years ago, and I don't see myself going back anytime soon, so I can't test this theory either.
 
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