iPod Apple really blew it with my warranty service

[polaris20]

So my 7 week old iPod nano died. Same stuck sleep/wake button that seems to be affecting a lot of people.

I went to the Apple store to have it replaced. Halfway through the process the guy says they have no stock of it and it can't be swapped. I'd have to mail it in. He assures me that the mail in service would give me a new unit the same as he would have.

So I set up the repair. Send it in. It takes two days longer than it should have because the person at the call center typed the serial number in wrong. Lovely.

I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch.

Now I have more fun to deal with getting them to honor their employees word and obey the law regarding bait and switch with merchandise.

After this, the swelling battery in my MacBook they refused to replace even though its a manufacturer defect and a design flaw, and all of the other experiences I've had with Apple, I'm done. No more Apple products for me. I won't even buy apps from the app store any more.

That's interesting. My wife's iPT gen4 was making a clicking sound when recording video. I called AppleCare, so they sent me to the local Apple Store. They looked at it, confirmed, and said:

"sorry, we're all out. We can either A. put you on a list and call you when they come in, B. have one set aside at the AppleStore 30 minutes away, or C. give you a gift card for the full amount so that you can just order a new one online".

I took C. We ordered, it was here in a couple days.

Maybe you should just stop buying Apple products? You seem to have poor luck. Meanwhile, my company is many, many Mac and iOS products in, and no troubles. I've got two Macs, no issues. Several friends have Macs (some for over a decade), and no issues. I guess we're just lucky.

You should go back to HP stuff, you seemed to have been really happy with them:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/284713/

 

[MsMerryMac]

Wow. Just....wow. The OP clearly has A LOT of time on his hands to be continuing the argument and quoting many long excerpts in his posts. I hate to add fuel to the fire, but sheesh, get a life Mosx. You got a replacement (exactly what Apple offers). Also, Frys is notorious for selling refurbished items themselves. I would never buy an Apple product from anywhere other than a Mac Store or online at Apple. For all they know, you could have done something to hose your Nano so for them to replace it at all at least shows they stand behind their products, even if you bought it at a swap meet, with no questions.

 

[malikk]

I'm too intelligent to buy a system at a big box store. I can build it myself.

You know there are reasons to buy a computer from a store over building them?

 

[polaris20]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I have an attitude because of all of the run ins I've had with Apple customer support.

I've had to send my MacBook out to AppleCare about 9 times total. Why so many times? Because the repair center sent the system back in worse shape, either cosmetically or functionally, than I sent it out in.

One time I sent out a plastic MacBook because the case had started to crack around the vents and turn yellow around the vent because of Apple's high temperatures and poor cooling system designs. When it came back to me, not only did it look like it had been dragged across asphalt, but the casing around the opening for the optical drive had somehow been warped to the point where I couldn't put a disc in.

Because of their repair center screwing things up all the time, Apple replaced my Mac twice. It wasn't because I was unhappy. It was because of a combination of Apple's poor build quality and their repair center being unable to do the job without screwing things up even worse than they were before.

Even when I finally got my third system, things were only good for a year or so. After about a year, Apple issue a firmware update for the optical drive that killed it. Had to send it out to get the drive replaced. When I got it back the bottom case looked like it had a screw driver pounded almost all the way through. So I had to make the hour long journey to the Apple store for them to replace that piece of the case.

And finally, the battery in my MacBook started to swell up and start cutting off randomly during use. This is a known defect with those batteries. But Apple told me to go pound sand in a more polite way.

So I have every reason to be upset with Apple and have an attitude. Because of them, I spent a combined total of more than two months without a computer. I've had to spend a significant amount of money on gas because of them. And I've been screwed over by them.



No, its not fair. Refurbished units sell cheaper than new. Again, I paid for new. It doesn't matter that it was two months ago. I paid for new, I deserve new. If they want to give me refurbished AFTER assuring me that I would get a new replacement unit then they need to refund me the difference. In cash. No Apple store credit.



Those last two sentences make me laugh. Apple products are NOT built better than the competition. Case in point being my MacBook issues as well as my iPhone 4. I love my iPhone 4, and iPhones are the only Apple product to never give me problems. But I shouldn't have to have it in a case thats built for protection just because Apple chooses style over functionality.

But, getting back on topic, do a google search for the 6th generation iPod nano. The same problem I had, the sleep/wake button dying, is VERY widespread with A LOT of people having this problem. With as many people who have had issues, its easy to say its destined to fail. And whats worse is all of those people were able to go into the Apple store and get it exchanged for a NEW unit.



If you live in the US you can sue Apple under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You should actually be able to sue them in small claims. I know here in California, thanks to the state consumer protection laws and Magnuson-Moss, I'd be able to sue them in small claims and I'm almost guaranteed a win.

And now that jailbreaking is legal, this would apply to any iOS users who have jailbroken and are denied warranty service. Sue under Magnuson-Moss and your own states consumer protection laws.



When it comes to computers, this sort of statement is just mind boggling. How are competitors products inferior? Aside from battery life, competing brands make far better products. True quad core processors in notebooks, GPUs that are far more powerful than anything offered in any shipping Mac (other than expensive upgrades for the Mac Pro), blu-ray readers, multi-card readers, eSATA, USB 3, etc. And these are all in systems that cost significantly less than Apple products.

In the one case I can think of where Apple costs less, its only by $50. That would be the base Mac mini compared to the Dell Zino HD. The Dell is about the same size as the Mac mini, but taller. And for $50 more you get a blu-ray reader, quad core processor, blu-ray reader, significantly better GPU, etc.

Owning an iPhone, iPad, and various iPods, I can make the same arguments about those products and their competitors as well. After this experience, I'm done buying Apple products. The situation with the iPad helped with that decision too. The iPad should have shipped with iOS 4. It should have had 512MB of RAM instead of 256. It should have had FaceTime with dual cameras. Jobs knew all of that was coming with iPhone 4 but decided to hold it out of the iPad for sake of pushing iPhone 3GS sales up until the iPhone 4 release, pushing sales of the iPhone 4, and attempting to get early adopters to buy a second iPad a year later when it finally shipped with those features.



No, they screwed me over. Again. I paid twice as much for a product as I should have only to have it die due to poor build quality, and now they're trying to push a used product on me when I paid for new.

now tell me why you keep buying apple products??

True. It's not like you need Apple products to troll an Apple-related forum. I especially love the "the iPad needs 512MB, cameras, etc yet I bought it anyway and I'm pissed about it" thought process.

I think I'll go buy a Toyota Prius, even though I need something that can haul 3 kids and a stroller. Then I am going to complain how there's not enough space, and the kids are cramped. After all, I can't read specs either

 

[mosx]

If your in love with windows why the hell did you buy a macbook an iphone and an ipod nano?

I love my iPhone, aside from my inability to purchase it unlocked without service. However, because of this experience, I will not be buying another.

I used to like iPods until this episode.

With the Mac, I had believed the hype. I didn't see that the hype was just that, hype, until the return window had closed and I was stuck with the system.

And for the 5,5Gen ipod there's something called rockbox. It does wonders.

I've tried it. I don't really care for it. Unless something drastic has changed since Rockbox 3.5, I don't see too much point in using it.

The fact that I can go to a store that is not filled with (I almost said blathering idiots, but they are mostly really fine young people who unfortunately have no product training

You're saying the Apple store is great? I can't stand that store. The one closest to me is filled with hipster guys in skinny jeans that would make TSA agents blush, with holier than thou attitudes. And the best part is, they talk down to you. Great.

The processor speed; same as the top speed of a Rolls Royce: Fast enough.

So something that hasn't been modern in nearly half a decade is fast enough for you?

The graphics speed; much faster than I need.

You must like choppy UIs.

RAM: Plenty, easily upgradable to 8GB when the price goes down.

Modern PC notebooks and desktops can take 16GB easily.

Hard drive: Plenty, easily upgradable to 1 TB.

Apple regularly includes HDDs that are significantly lower capacity than those found in PCs.

Nobody should be okay with purchasing a system that needs upgrades out of the box. Especially when it costs twice as much as competing products.

No fear of viruses.

Funny, I have no fear of viruses in Windows either. And I don't even run anti-virus software. This argument hasn't been valid since the 90s.

Very little maintenance.

Sure, if you like your Mac getting slower and slower with time.

A trackpad that is intuitive.

And useless in the real world. Have to use a mouse unless I'm portable.

Easy backup.

That has proven unreliable. Google is your friend.

Connects to a large monitor without any problems

Apple's multi-display support is the worst in the industry. It's 2010 and I still can't control display functions in software.

Connects to my TV without any problems.

Thats funny because I was using HDMI to connect to HDTVs without expensive dongles many years ago.

Ten hours battery life, with a battery that lasts 1000 charges.

"Charges"? Now I know you're drinking the Apple Kool-Aid. It's cycles, not charges. And a properly maintained battery will last for years. My 2008 unibody MacBook battery swelled up and died after a year and a half. It only had 170 cycles or so. 99% life still. My HP's original battery is 3 years old now, 98% life reporting. The double capacity battery I have for it is 2 years old now and 99% life.

10 hours? Real world is significantly less. Especially if you start browsing real websites or turn the screen brightness up to a usable level.

Any company is better off without a customer like you. They have to build 3 or 4 of every product every time you buy one. There's no way to make money on you. I'd wager that Apple has seen this trend and has simply given up and hopes you go away.

Thats fine. Because I'm having fun telling people my honest story and swaying people to purchase other products.

they could of launched the DS Lite on launch if they wanted to
instead they made a slimmer version a few years later
plus they could of put cameras in at launch or on release of the DS Lite

The DS lite came out 2 years after the original DS and didn't really have anything better except it weighed less and had better battery life.

Real changes to the DS weren't made until it had already been on the market for 4 years. Unlike Apple. Apple releases one deliberately gimped product to boost sales of another and be able to sell the second generation product to all of those who bought the first generation. Unlike the DS and DSi, the technology currently exists and is cheap for Apple to have made the iPad what it should have been. But they didn't, for the sake of pushing more iPhone 4 sales and iPad 2 sales.

I took a perusal of the Magnunson-Moss Warranty Act, (MMWA) and the Apple ipod/isight warranty, based on your comments, and these documents, you do not have a legitimate case.

According to the attorneys I've consulted, I do.

1. Did the apple store employee expressly, in writing, guarantee that you would get a NEW replacement for your used ipod (I say yours was used because once you open the original packaging and turn it on/connect to itunes it has become used)?

In California, verbal promise holds the same legal standing as written promise. In fact, if, for example, someone borrowed money from you and promised to pay you back verbally, you can sue them with the same effectiveness as if they had signed a promissory note.

So we read here that Apple warrants that in the event the product needs warranty service, at their discretion they can repair OR replace with new or REFURBISHED parts.

Again, the Apple store employee verbally assured me that I would be getting a NEW unit. And I have a witness to testify to the fact. According to the attorneys I have spoken to, some of which were willing to take the case on contingency, I do have a case against Apple if I choose to take it.

SO to sum this up tidily, You noticed a problem on your in-warranty ipod. You brought it to Apple, who, replaced it with a new in box model at the store. You noticed a problem with that ipod, you brought it back to the store

To sum it up, you didn't read my post. Thats not what happened. They didn't replace it in store. They were going to. Then the employee saw they were out of stock. He assured me that mail-in service would provide me with a new unit.

verbal indication of new is not legally admissable, it must be in writing, besides Apple can replace with new or refurbished at their discretion

Again, in the great state of California, verbal assurance is every bit as legally binding as written.

So wait... as I read it, to fully punish the Evil Jobs and the Apple Conglomerate you need to bring a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT to trial, a lawsuit based on Apple not providing their warranty to consumers, oh and you need more than 100 people on your side, OR sue for more than $50,000….

Well, then you need to learn how to read apparently.

As I've said, I've consulted attorneys here in California. Under California state law and federal laws, they did not live up to their end of the bargain because the Apple Store employee assured me I would receive a new unit. Simple as that.

Don't forget, while in criminal law the prosecution must prove their case, in civil court the complainant has to prove they were wronged, in other words the onus is on you to make your case airtight.

Considering I have a witness, not hard at all.

You were unhappy that they complied with their warranty as it is expressly defined in writing. You are unhappy because you were promised verbally that it would be a new unit by a store level employee (not a person of authority with the right to act on the company's behalf outside of its warranty policies).

Again, under California state law, verbal agreements hold as much water in court as written.

The way you've replied to my post, the things you've written show that you did not even fully read what I have posted. Not only that, but you're not an attorney, you're posting from an extremely biased towards Apple view point, and you're talking to someone who has a lot of experience in these matters.

That's interesting. My wife's iPT gen4 was making a clicking sound when recording video. I called AppleCare, so they sent me to the local Apple Store. They looked at it, confirmed, and said:

"sorry, we're all out. We can either A. put you on a list and call you when they come in, B. have one set aside at the AppleStore 30 minutes away, or C. give you a gift card for the full amount so that you can just order a new one online".

I took C. We ordered, it was here in a couple days.

How long had you owned it? Mine was 7 weeks old and NOT purchased from an Apple store. I avoid the Apple store at all costs if possible.

Maybe you should just stop buying Apple products?

Oh I have. I've already covered up the Apple and MacBook logos on my Mac. And I'm taking other steps to Apple-free my life. I'll be selling what I can here in the coming weeks.

Several friends have Macs (some for over a decade), and no issues. I guess we're just lucky.

The last person I've known to own a Mac bought a PC yesterday. The most ardent Mac fanboy I knew recently purchased a PC that puts all MacBook Pros to shame. 18.4" screen, quad core Core i7, GTX 460m, 500GB HDD, 8GB of RAM, blu-ray, 1080p screen. All for $200 less than the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro.

You should go back to HP stuff, you seemed to have been really happy with them

I am actually. The last system HP gave me is now 3 years old. Batteries are still like new and its outlived 3 Macs. When the optical drive in it went bad, I called HP and they sent me a new one. It took less than a minute for me to swap the drive out. When Apple's firmware update killed my MacBook's DVD writer, I had to send the system in and wait a week. When it came back it was scratched on the bottom and I had to take it to the Apple store to have the case replaced.

I especially love the "the iPad needs 512MB, cameras, etc yet I bought it anyway and I'm pissed about it" thought process.

It's funny how you continue to deliberately misread my posts after all the debates we've had.

I bought the iPad on launch day. Had no idea that Apple was deliberately holding back the hardware until the iPhone 4 announcement.

 

[Kristenn]

I seriously hate to feed the troll here but I do have ONE BIG question your little brain just might not be able to grasp.

Give me a link to the $999 dollar laptop with Quadcore, dedicated graphics and 4/8GB of RAM.

If such a computer is on the face of the earth... new for that price. How is that battery life serving ya? I mean after all, battery life is what matters in a laptop. Why have a laptop that runs for an hour and a half with so much speed you can't even use on the road when you can have a laptop that lasts 5/8 hours and STILL has more than enough speed to get you by?

 

[mosx]

Give me a link to the $999 dollar laptop with Quadcore, dedicated graphics and 4/8GB of RAM.

If such a computer is on the face of the earth... new for that price.

I'll give you 3 links. All quad core. All dedicated graphics. One even has a blu-ray reader. Just because Apple overprices their hardware by 2-3x doesn't mean everyone else does.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146848

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220827

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115868

How is that battery life serving ya? I mean after all, battery life is what matters in a laptop. Why have a laptop that runs for an hour and a half with so much speed you can't even use on the road when you can have a laptop that lasts 5/8 hours and STILL has more than enough speed to get you by?

Depends on your definition of "speed". In 2006, a Core 2 Duo was fast. In 2010, a true quad core Core i7 or Phenom II X4 is fast.

Battery life? Well, three things to address with this argument. First being that I can easily swap batteries out on a PC notebook. Second being that my PC, whether it be my Mac or my HP, gets carried in a backpack along with its power supply. Everywhere I go has plugs, so I'm plugged in far more often than I'm not when I'm away from my desk. Second is that PC batteries tend to charge a lot faster than Macs. My HP 3.5 hour battery can charge from dead to 100% in the same amount of time it takes my Mac battery to recharge 30%, despite the fact that its only rated at "5 hours" (real world being 3.5 or so).

Plus I had a double capacity battery for my HP years ago. I was getting 7 hours on a single charge when Apple was rating their systems at "4.5" hours with real world usage of around 3.

 

[Kristenn]

I'll give you 3 links. All quad core. All dedicated graphics. One even has a blu-ray reader. Just because Apple overprices their hardware by 2-3x doesn't mean everyone else does.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146848

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220827

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115868



Depends on your definition of "speed". In 2006, a Core 2 Duo was fast. In 2010, a true quad core Core i7 or Phenom II X4 is fast.

Battery life? Well, three things to address with this argument. First being that I can easily swap batteries out on a PC notebook. Second being that my PC, whether it be my Mac or my HP, gets carried in a backpack along with its power supply. Everywhere I go has plugs, so I'm plugged in far more often than I'm not when I'm away from my desk. Second is that PC batteries tend to charge a lot faster than Macs. My HP 3.5 hour battery can charge from dead to 100% in the same amount of time it takes my Mac battery to recharge 30%, despite the fact that its only rated at "5 hours" (real world being 3.5 or so).

Plus I had a double capacity battery for my HP years ago. I was getting 7 hours on a single charge when Apple was rating their systems at "4.5" hours with real world usage of around 3.

Can you get it for that price from the manufacturer? Off their website? I can buy a MBP ($2499 from Apple) for about $1000 if I look hard enough on Ebay. How does posting a link from Newegg prove your point? Or am I missing something here?

3.5 real world? I got 5 hours and 15 minutes out of my MBP when I got it new.

You use the excuse that you can swap batteries and are always sitting by the power outlet most places anyway but, why not pay more just to have a 5 hour battery rather than carry two 2.5 hour batteries?

No, I'm seriously trying to understand. Why did you buy anything Apple in the first place? You are so quick to defend PCs and thrash the Macintosh that I'm truly beginning to think that you have never really owned (or enjoyed) a single product from Apple. I demand pics or it isn't true.

But how powerful was that HP laptop? The one that got 7 hours when Apple was getting 4.5? I hope you aren't comparing a consumer laptop to a Professional laptop because if you are you just need to stop... now. Seriously before I throw up my lovely breakfast.


Just because Ebay and Amazon sell computers for dirt cheap doesn't mean the companies that designed them do.

C wot I did thar?

 

[mosx]

Can you get it for that price from the manufacturer? Off their website? I can buy a MBP ($2499 from Apple) for about $1000 if I look hard enough on Ebay. How does posting a link from Newegg prove your point? Or am I missing something here?

Whats wrong with newegg? They sell NEW systems directly from the manufacturer with the manufacturers warranty. In fact, look at the standard warranty on the Asus and find me a Mac with a warranty like that.

A Mac on ebay would be used if discounted that much. And considering Apple's build quality, I'm not going anywhere near USED products.

3.5 real world? I got 5 hours and 15 minutes out of my MBP when I got it new

I get 3.5 out of my 2008 unibody MacBook rated at 5. Thats with wifi on, bluetooth off, and screen at 50%. Anything below 50% is unusable.

You use the excuse that you can swap batteries and are always sitting by the power outlet most places anyway but, why not pay more just to have a 5 hour battery rather than carry two 2.5 hour batteries?

In a real world situation people are using their notebooks plugged in. 2.5-3.5 hours of real world use is plenty of time when most people almost never have their systems unplugged to begin with. And considering that most people use their notebooks as their only system, having one that can last several years, has user serviceable parts, and has a lot of horsepower is far more important than having one with a good battery, thats underpowered, and is more of a fashion accessory toy than a real computer.

No, I'm seriously trying to understand. Why did you buy anything Apple in the first place? You are so quick to defend PCs and thrash the Macintosh that I'm truly beginning to think that you have never really owned (or enjoyed) a single product from Apple. I demand pics or it isn't true.

Good job not reading the entire thread. Already posted a pic of my iPod nano 6G laying on my 2008 unibody MacBook.

Why did I buy anything Apple? Well, I liked iPods up until this incident. I had already sworn off Macs years ago after having terrible customer service experiences and even worse repair service. I only bought a Mac because I was a sucker that believed the false hype about OS X.

But how powerful was that HP laptop? The one that got 7 hours when Apple was getting 4.5? I hope you aren't comparing a consumer laptop to a Professional laptop because if you are you just need to stop... now. Seriously before I throw up my lovely breakfast

Macs? Professional? lmao Sorry, if you want to say the MacBook "Pro" line is actually "professional grade", then you need to compare it to HP, Dell, and Lenovo's professional lines. The MacBook "Pro" won't stand a chance. You're talking about computers that are built like tanks, not soft aluminum, quad core processors, workstation quality GPUs, 3 year standard warranties with on site service standard. I could go on. The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a pretty consumer system with "Pro" thrown on the label so Apple can charge more. Oh, and its more fashion accessory than real computer.

My HP laptop compared to the Mac I had at the time? Well, let's see. I got that HP right before Apple replaced my MacBook for the first time thanks to their awful mail-in service. Both had 2GHz Core 2 Duos. The Mac had 1GB of RAM. HP had 2GB. Mac had Intel GMA 950 integrated graphics, HP had 128MB dedicated GeForce 8400M GS. Mac had 2 USB ports and a mini DVI port requiring an adapter to be used with any external display. HP had built-in VGA, S-Video, and HDMI (with audio!), 3 USB, full size express card, 5-in-1 card reader, Firewire 400, and a fingerprint scanner. Oh and both had built-in cameras. Mac was VGA quality, HP was 1.3MP. HP also had a TV tuner with dongle to control any set top box and 40GB more HDD space. Both had DVD writers, though the HP had "Lightscribe". As far as cost goes, the HP was about $500 less than the Mac.

Just because Ebay and Amazon sell computers for dirt cheap doesn't mean the companies that designed them do.

Well, I don't use eBay. But Amazon, unless buying from the Amazon Marketplace, Newegg, TigerDirect, Fry's, etc. all sell directly from the manufacturer with full manufacturer warranty. And if a problem arises, dealing with them is the same as with Apple. If you're within the return window you return the defective unit. If you're not within the return window then you deal with the manufacturer for support. Not everyone lives near an Apple Store.

 

[Kristenn]

Whats wrong with Newegg? I'll tell you. Nothing. But you're comparing Apple's direct prices to Newegg's. Not to Lenovo's. The MacBook Pro IS a professional grade laptop even if you don't think it is.

As for discribing a laptop as a tank ummm yeah no comment

If Apple's built quality is so horrible why is it every time I google for the most reliable PC Apple is always in the list of top 5 on multiple websites? Just because you've had bad luck it doesn't mean everyone else has.

Okay so you DO own Apple products but you sound like a smelly troll to me. No offense.

I got 4 and a half hours with wifi on, bluetooth on, screen %50 but I can use the screen comfortably at %20 I don't see what the problem is.

What kind of work are you doing on your laptop that 3.5 hours of real world use is enough? Forgive me for being confused but 5 hours for me is just barely enough at the end of the day.

False hype around Mac OS X? There isn't any hype that I know of. They tell you about it and people like it or they don't. Mac OS X is fine for me. If it isn't for you that doesn't mean what Apple says about it is false.

Thank you. I hardly ever read the entire thread by angry mob people. There isn't proof that those picturing weren't pulled from google images so of course I was going to ask. Wouldn't you? Or maybe I'm just paranoid?

Macs are hardly fashion accessories. It boots up to the desktop in a little under 20 seconds first rattle out of the bag. Pretty "Pro" in my opinion.

As for the ram statement. Have you ever noticed that Mac OS X uses less ram than Windows? The only reason the standered ram was bumped is because of Vista. The Macs came with enough ram. I bet that Mac with 1GB ran faster than that PC with 2GB did while running Windows Vista. Actually you don't need to answer that because I already tested that a year ago myself. The Mac even had a slower processor.

Apparently buying from Frys was your mistake. If you're buying stuff at a discount you may as well be buying stuff refurbished. Since it seems to be such a problem for you.

I'd best stop feeding the troll now. I should take my own advice on that.

 

[tablo13]

Well, try finding a computer manufacturer who would exchange you with a new computer, by using warranty, not returns. Then would you be happy?

 

[mosx]

Whats wrong with Newegg? I'll tell you. Nothing. But you're comparing Apple's direct prices to Newegg's. Not to Lenovo's.

First, whats your point? Are you really trying to nitpick and say that its somehow better to buy directly from the manufacturer versus a different store? With Apple it makes no difference, since they control prices everywhere. In fact, it might be better to buy Apple products from a different retailer so you can get a 30 day return window and no restocking fee. Acer and Asus don't sell directly to customers, they only go through third party retailers. Lenovo only sells custom units on their website, not pre-built ready to go systems. Thats not an uncommon practice.

The MacBook Pro IS a professional grade laptop even if you don't think it is.

How is the MacBook "Pro" a professional grade system? It comes with low-end consumer grade graphics, in some cases integrated graphics. It doesn't have full size ExpressCard, doesn't have eSATA, doesn't have any sort of other card slots, matte screens cost extra, theres no option for RGBLED backlighting, it doesn't come with 3 year warranty standard that also covers damage and on-site service, they can't be upgraded to 16GB of RAM or have dual HDDs without removing the optical drive, theres no option for blu-ray writer, no option for built-in 3G service, no replaceable battery, no option for more rugged casing to with-stand more extreme environments… would you like me to go on? I certainly can.

The worst part is AppleCare. All it is is an extension of a basic one year warranty that Apple will try to void at any cost. Have a little scratch in that soft aluminum case? Void. A little mark on the top of your case by the Apple logo? Oh thats abuse, void. With other PC manufacturers you'll get real warranty support for everything and 3 years is standard. Right now at HP you can get a 3 year accidental warranty with IN HOME service for $165 for their consumer notebooks.

The so-called MacBook "Pro" doesn't even have features that run of the mill consumer notebooks have. Like eSATA, blu-ray readers, modern GPUs that can actually run 3D applications at native resolutions, support for more than one HDD with an optical drive in place, USB 3.0, true quad core CPUs, multi-card readers, replaceable batteries, etc. Again, need I go on?

I got 4 and a half hours with wifi on, bluetooth on, screen %50 but I can use the screen comfortably at %20 I don't see what the problem is.

Good for you. I like being able to see my screen.

What kind of work are you doing on your laptop that 3.5 hours of real world use is enough? Forgive me for being confused but 5 hours for me is just barely enough at the end of the day.

Well, as I said, I'm always around plugs of some kind. So battery life isn't an issue. And if I do need extra battery life, my HP has two batteries. A 3.5 hour battery that still gets about that much in real world use after 3 years and a 7 hour battery that also gets about that much still after all this time.

Plus both batteries recharge extremely fast. As I said before, the 3.5 hour battery can recharge from dead in about the same amount of time it takes my MacBook battery to recharge from 70% remaining.

It's also not a good idea to run your batteries dead all the time. So sitting there using your system all day on battery is less than ideal and a good way to kill the battery fast. Especially with an Apple battery. I know that from experience.

False hype around Mac OS X? There isn't any hype that I know of. They tell you about it and people like it or they don't. Mac OS X is fine for me. If it isn't for you that doesn't mean what Apple says about it is false.

All the nonsense about being more stable than Windows, more capable, etc. I've never had Vista or Windows 7 crash on me, and the last time I had XP crash on me was when I was experimenting with a scanner I knew wouldn't work in XP right after it was released. OS X, however, I have had crash on me randomly for no apparent reason. Just moving the mouse cursor or emptying the trash of picture files.

Plus I can think of many things Windows can do that OS X can't. Like play modern video.

There isn't proof that those picturing weren't pulled from google images so of course I was going to ask. Wouldn't you? Or maybe I'm just paranoid?

Are you really going to stoop that low?

Macs are hardly fashion accessories. It boots up to the desktop in a little under 20 seconds first rattle out of the bag. Pretty "Pro" in my opinion.

Theres no way you have total 20 second boot time. It takes 11-13 seconds just for the Apple logo to appear after pressing the power button. On a fresh install of Snow Leopard without any extra junk like useless printer drivers or language translations, on my 320GB 7200RPM drive I put in myself, it takes about 36 seconds after I have all of my apps installed and music put on. Guess what? Windows 7 on the same hardware also takes about 36 seconds. On my HP with its old 160GB 5400RPM drive it takes Windows 7 about 41 seconds to boot.

As for the ram statement. Have you ever noticed that Mac OS X uses less ram than Windows?

So you demonstrate the fact that you don't understand how Windows works.

On a fresh boot of Snow Leopard, out of 4GB of RAM, I have 3GB free. On Windows 7 on the same system, I have 3GB free. OS X uses less RAM? I don't think so. Plus Windows has SuperFetch and other technologies that cache your most used apps, so they open instantly and run faster, hence the reason it appears Windows uses more RAM, but really does. That "used" memory is freed instantly if another app needs it.

The only reason the standered ram was bumped is because of Vista. The Macs came with enough ram.

No, PCs started shipping with more RAM because of competition and the need for more memory. Did you ever run Leopard on 1GB of RAM? It was dog slow. The OS itself took up half the memory. Open up a browser and iTunes and your RAM was gone.

I bet that Mac with 1GB ran faster than that PC with 2GB did while running Windows Vista. Actually you don't need to answer that because I already tested that a year ago myself. The Mac even had a slower processor.

It's funny you say that because I had the exact opposite experience. I had two white MacBooks that had 1GB of RAM and Intel graphics. I ran Vista on both of them along with Leopard on both of them. Vista ran faster than Leopard on both systems. Tiger (only ran it on the first system) ran faster than Vista, but no faster than XP on that same system.

Apparently buying from Frys was your mistake. If you're buying stuff at a discount you may as well be buying stuff refurbished. Since it seems to be such a problem for you.

What discount did I get from Fry's on my iPod nano 6G? It was 149.00 before taxes and $163.53 after taxes. It was no different there than if I had bought it at the Apple store, except Fry's gave me a 30 day return window I should have taken advantage of.

Well, try finding a computer manufacturer who would exchange you with a new computer, by using warranty, not returns

HP did that for me. And that system has outlasted 3 Macs.

 

[Kristenn]

Batteries are meant to be drained completely at least once a month. It's called a full recharge cycle. My battery has 268 cycles and still gets 4 hours of battery life.

As for Mac OS X crashing the way you described, sounds like user error to me. I have Leopard running on a 1Ghz G4 with 1GB of RAM and it isn't "dog slow" at all.

I think you've completed your rant multiple times over and instead of reposting what I already posted to make my point like you have I'm just going to suggest you leave. You've made your choice.

Also, the google images picture thing is something called sarcasm. Commonly used on planet earth. You should look it up.

The point about frys is you are saying Apple charges BLAH BLAH BLAH and comparing Apple to something bought from Frys. My point is I could go to Amazon or Ebay and get a Mac for around that price too. I bet you can't get that lenovo from their website for the price marked on Frys.

I will leave you to your ranting. Maybe someone else will feed you for a while.

BTW Snow leopard is currently using 1.5 GB of my 4GB of ram at the moment.

 

[mosx]

Batteries are meant to be drained completely at least once a month. It's called a full recharge cycle. My battery has 268 cycles and still gets 4 hours of battery life.

It's generally every 30 cycles. Not once a month.

Good for you. My MacBook battery had 170 cycles on it and it swelled up like a balloon and died. It's a common problem with the 2008 unibody systems, but Apple doesn't care. The same way governments had to get involve and force action for the iBook G3 and iBook G4 problems years ago. Apple won't do a thing unless they're legally required to do so, and even then they take their own interpretation of the law.

As for Mac OS X crashing the way you described, sounds like user error to me.

User error? Yeah, sure is user error when you go to move the mouse cursor and the entire system comes crashing down. Or the system crashes when you hit "Empty Trash" when the trash is filled with pictures. Or when you click "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" (Tiger) and the system locks up.

I have Leopard running on a 1Ghz G4 with 1GB of RAM and it isn't "dog slow" at all.

Well, if you've only ever used Macs your entire life then you haven't ever experienced a truly "fast" system.

I think you've completed your rant multiple times over and instead of reposting what I already posted to make my point like you have I'm just going to suggest you leave. You've made your choice.

Nah, I want people to hear my HONEST story about what Apple did to me.

The point about frys is you are saying Apple charges BLAH BLAH BLAH and comparing Apple to something bought from Frys. My point is I could go to Amazon or Ebay and get a Mac for around that price too. I bet you can't get that lenovo from their website for the price marked on Frys.

Sigh, doesn't anyone read?

If you buy a heavily discounted Mac from ebay it is used. Apple controls prices on their products. It doesn't matter if you buy it from Amazon, Fry's, Newegg, Best Buy, etc., it will be virtually the same price (maybe different in either way by $5 or so) everywhere and it won't matter what product it is. In fact, when I got my nano, I paid MORE for it by going to Fry's than the closest Apple store because sales taxes are higher in Los Angeles County, where Fry's is located, than San Bernardino County, where the closest Apple store is.

BTW Snow leopard is currently using 1.5 GB of my 4GB of ram at the moment.

Good for you. I have 1.67GB of RAM free out of 4GB on my Mac right now. Safari is eating 362MB of RAM even though I only have one tab open! Talk about memory leaks. iTunes is at 186.7MB. Other than those I have Adium with a couple of chat windows open and Mail. Thats it.

 

[van2010rulz]

Nah, I want people to hear my HONEST story about what Apple did to me.

Everybody has heard your honest story. People have given your their honest stories, now move on! I respect your story about what has happened to you. You my friend had some bad luck. Most people I've heard from had been happy with their Apple Products. Please just move on.

 

[hcho3]

I don't understand why people always cry about refurbished or new units. Everything is old unit at the moment your unbox and touch it with your dirty hands. There, it's used.

Refurbished model is fine for me as long as they are carefully inspected and they are. Sometimes, there are better than new ones.

 

[galstaph]

Macs? Professional? lmao Sorry, if you want to say the MacBook "Pro" line is actually "professional grade", then you need to compare it to HP, Dell, and Lenovo's professional lines. The MacBook "Pro" won't stand a chance. You're talking about computers that are built like tanks, not soft aluminum, quad core processors, workstation quality GPUs, 3 year standard warranties with on site service standard. I could go on. The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a pretty consumer system with "Pro" thrown on the label so Apple can charge more. Oh, and its more fashion accessory than real computer.

(I know... I shouldn't feed the troll....)
built like tanks might be a bit of an overstatement. most of the hp/dell/lenovos are plastic. My mbp's aluminium construction is a blessing to me, it may scratch, and dent it hit, but I personally am grateful apple went with it, I've had my mbp deflect a speaker from hitting my toddler after she pulled it down on herself, a small dent on the top of the display that does not affect performance is a great exchange for her not getting hurt. Do I worry about my applecare, yes and no. If I have to I can get it fixed, it still does all I need it to do.

BTW The first laptop that comes to mind as 'built like a tank' is not a dell inspiron or lenovo thinkpad it is a panasonic toughbook, (or an AMREL, or a Dell E6400) and that definitely is NOT a sub $1000 computer nor does it use quad core i7 processors (neither do dell ruggedized laptops). What does that say about a mil-spec computer these days... core 2 duo is still fine for dell for 4K+, panasonic will sell you an i3 or lower level i5 for 4k+... hmmm...
maybe we don't need to have the latest and greatest to just get work done (assuming we're not surfing mac forums all day that is).

 

[Kristenn]

Yeah I use Windows every week. I don't hate Windows either. But I'm smart enough to know which one runs faster on slower hardware.

 

[santaliqueur]

Yeah, sure is user error when you go to move the mouse cursor and the entire system comes crashing down.

That's my favorite complaint. No basis in reality at all, yet he keeps mentioning it.

Too bad you have an irrational fear of Paypal, you could sell your Apple gear for nearly what you paid for it. Or, you could keep getting all this "attention" from us by complaining. How does it feel to be a source of negativity? People are not interested in what you want to say.

 

[polaris20]

How long had you owned it? Mine was 7 weeks old and NOT purchased from an Apple store. I avoid the Apple store at all costs if possible.

Several weeks, and I bought it from an Apple store, because there's no reason not to.

Oh I have. I've already covered up the Apple and MacBook logos on my Mac. And I'm taking other steps to Apple-free my life. I'll be selling what I can here in the coming weeks.

I look forward to it.

The last person I've known to own a Mac bought a PC yesterday. The most ardent Mac fanboy I knew recently purchased a PC that puts all MacBook Pros to shame. 18.4" screen, quad core Core i7, GTX 460m, 500GB HDD, 8GB of RAM, blu-ray, 1080p screen. All for $200 less than the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro.

Working in IT, that machine would be utterly useless to me, because I travel a lot for business, configuring networks and working on virtualization environments and what not. I need a machine that isn't the size of a coffee table, yet still runs several virtual machines reliably. That would be a MacBook Pro 13, or a Thinkpad T410, which cost about the same. I chose the Mac out of preference, but it could be done with either. However the Mac interacts much better with Linux machines that Windows does in my opinion.

You continue to not understand that specs aren't the only factor with a computer. You continue to not comprehend preference, needs, and workflow. I know I'm farting in the wind here with you though, but if the super awesome powerful PC doesn't behave as I like it to and run the apps I want it to (specifically, not an "equivalent") then it's not as productive to me. But seeing as how you don't work in IT, or deal with productivity, you wouldn't understand that.

I am actually. The last system HP gave me is now 3 years old. Batteries are still like new and its outlived 3 Macs. When the optical drive in it went bad, I called HP and they sent me a new one. It took less than a minute for me to swap the drive out. When Apple's firmware update killed my MacBook's DVD writer, I had to send the system in and wait a week. When it came back it was scratched on the bottom and I had to take it to the Apple store to have the case replaced.

Awesome. I've still got a stack of dead HP's just days over their warranty. Pieces of crap, all of them, and these are the $2000 business PC's, not the even crappier consumer junk. Have fun with that! Luckily we're almost entirely switched over to Thinkpads.

It's funny how you continue to deliberately misread my posts after all the debates we've had.

I bought the iPad on launch day. Had no idea that Apple was deliberately holding back the hardware until the iPhone 4 announcement.

Yet you were happy with the specs enough to buy it on release day, and enjoy the product. There was enough speculation about it having a camera, and when it didn't, many people bitched, and didn't buy one. Yet you bought one anyway. Why? What fool buys something that doesn't fit their needs?

You continually amaze me with your total lack of logic. You continually buy stuff from a company you hate (I count at least 3 or 4 since you openly started trolling here). Who does that? It's positively absurd.

I hate HP stuff, because I personally had a lot of issues supporting their laptops, even though their servers were/are decent. So I stopped supporting the company by not continuing to buy their products. I had the authority to do that, so I did.

Just move along, Mosx. Go enjoy your HP's, and stop trolling here.

 

[polaris20]

(I know... I shouldn't feed the troll....)
built like tanks might be a bit of an overstatement. most of the hp/dell/lenovos are plastic. My mbp's aluminium construction is a blessing to me, it may scratch, and dent it hit, but I personally am grateful apple went with it, I've had my mbp deflect a speaker from hitting my toddler after she pulled it down on herself, a small dent on the top of the display that does not affect performance is a great exchange for her not getting hurt. Do I worry about my applecare, yes and no. If I have to I can get it fixed, it still does all I need it to do.

BTW The first laptop that comes to mind as 'built like a tank' is not a dell inspiron or lenovo thinkpad it is a panasonic toughbook, (or an AMREL, or a Dell E6400) and that definitely is NOT a sub $1000 computer nor does it use quad core i7 processors (neither do dell ruggedized laptops). What does that say about a mil-spec computer these days... core 2 duo is still fine for dell for 4K+, panasonic will sell you an i3 or lower level i5 for 4k+... hmmm...
maybe we don't need to have the latest and greatest to just get work done (assuming we're not surfing mac forums all day that is).

The HP workstation laptops we've had (we're talking $3000+ here) have been utter garbage, and constantly have been worked on, replaced, etc. Good thing we have that 3 year warranty! They all needed it. The Dell M series workstations were similarly unreliable. The W510's we're now using are pretty darn solid though, and an excellent option if you need that sort of machine.

 

[santaliqueur]

PC World just released their annual reliability survey. Apple on top, HP on the bottom.

 

[polaris20]

PC World just released their annual reliability survey. Apple on top, HP on the bottom.

Here, let me save Mosx some trouble. He'd say that "PCWorld lost its credibility a long time ago", or "the survey had a flawed selection base" or something like that.

It really doesn't matter what he's presented with; his anecdotal evidence >*

 

[santaliqueur]

Here, let me save Mosx some trouble. He'd say that "PCWorld lost its credibility a long time ago", or "the survey had a flawed selection base" or something like that.

It really doesn't matter what he's presented with; his anecdotal evidence >*

Polaris, did you consider the possibility that PC World is full of Apple Zealots and blind fanboys? That could have something to do with it.

 

[mosx]

Several weeks, and I bought it from an Apple store, because there's no reason not to.

I can think of plenty of reasons to not go to the Apple Store. Including the obnoxious hipster employees who think they know more about everything in general than you do.

Working in IT, that machine would be utterly useless to me, because I travel a lot for business, configuring networks and working on virtualization environments and what not. I need a machine that isn't the size of a coffee table, yet still runs several virtual machines reliably.

The size of a coffee table? Please. As I've pointed out many times in the past, the 13" MacBooks are not much smaller overall than their 15" counterparts or other PCs on the market. They're actually quite large and heavy for 13" systems. Infact…

That would be a MacBook Pro 13, or a Thinkpad T410, which cost about the same. I chose the Mac out of preference, but it could be done with either

That Thinkpad has a larger screen than the MacBook "Pro", significantly better dedicated graphics, and it has a Core i5. And its only slightly larger than the MBP by a hair in either direction. Oh and better yet? It's a lot cheaper!

However the Mac interacts much better with Linux machines that Windows does in my opinion.

Definitely a user issue.

You continue to not understand that specs aren't the only factor with a computer. You continue to not comprehend preference, needs, and workflow.

We've gone over this before. OS X offers no advantage in "work flow". There is nothing that OS X can do that Windows cannot, so the "needs" argument is out of the window. The only reason to choose a Mac over a Windows system is if you want something thats pretty rather than functional. If you care more about style than having a tool actually perform like a tool.

Going back to "workflow", isn't it hilarious that Apple is touting fullscreen apps as the next big thing in OS X? How many decades ago did Windows do that?

That reminds me of how Apple made a big deal out of pre-emptive multi-tasking in OS X. Welcome to half a decade earlier in Windows.

but if the super awesome powerful PC doesn't behave as I like it to and run the apps I want it to (specifically, not an "equivalent") then it's not as productive to me.

Thats your opinion.

However, again, there is nothing that OS X can do that Windows cannot. You'd be hard pressed to find a good OS X app that isn't on Windows or based on a superior Windows version, such as Office.

But seeing as how you don't work in IT, or deal with productivity, you wouldn't understand that.

You still have no idea what I do. I've never told you and theres no need to. Why? Because, unlike some people, I don't need to brag about what I do to people who I will never meet and I couldn't possibly care less about.

However, based on your comments in all of the arguments we've had, I have far more experience in YOUR field than you do.

I've still got a stack of dead HP's just days over their warranty. Pieces of crap, all of them, and these are the $2000 business PC's, not the even crappier consumer junk. Have fun with that! Luckily we're almost entirely switched over to Thinkpads.

HP sells more computers in one quarter than Apple does in a year. HP sells more computers in a year than there are Mac users in total. It's simple math that there will be more failed HP systems more visibly in the world than there will be Macs.

Yet you were happy with the specs enough to buy it on release day, and enjoy the product. There was enough speculation about it having a camera, and when it didn't, many people bitched, and didn't buy one. Yet you bought one anyway. Why? What fool buys something that doesn't fit their needs?

Ask all of the people who spend 2-3x as much on a fashion accessory computer why they do that.

The iPad was great at first. But then Jobs announced the iPhone 4 and it became clear as day to anyone unaffected by the reality distortion field that they had deliberately held back the iPad in favor of selling iPhone 4. Even some of Apple's more rabid fans complained.

You continually amaze me with your total lack of logic. You continually buy stuff from a company you hate (I count at least 3 or 4 since you openly started trolling here). Who does that? It's positively absurd.

Since my first run in with Apple support in 2007 I bought exactly ZERO products until this year. Good job knowing the facts and making more assumptions without knowing, well, reality.

The last Apple product I had purchased was my iPod nano 3G right as I started to experience Apple's "support". I was given an iPod touch as a gift several months later. But the last product I actually bought from Apple until this year was the iPod nano 3G.

Up until the iPad, any new product I had gotten from Apple was a warranty replacement because they royally screwed up warranty service, or the one gift. Thats why I had 2 more Macs after that incident. Because they screwed up bad and replaced those units.

I have not bought another Apple computer and I never will unless some strange twist of fate requires me to. Even if I am given one as a gift I will not open it and I will return it to the store for a refund or store credit.

The iPad was announced and I wanted one. I got it. Other than being short changed on hardware and not knowing it until the iPhone 4 was announced, it's given me no problems.

I bought the iPhone 4 because my original iPhone died after 3 years of very heavy use. I needed a smartphone. Blackberries are absolute junk. Android phones still aren't up to snuff and the market fragmentation and lack of manufacturer updates makes them not reliable enough in my eyes.

With the iPod nano.. well, I hadn't had any issues with the iPhone 4 or iPad, and I've never had any REAL issues with the iPods in the past. The 3G iPod nano screen tilt issue was cosmetic, though Apple should have done something about it. But other than that, the device performed 100% perfectly. My original iPod mini is nearly 6 years old now and still holds a full charge and the HDD still works. After thinking about it, even though I was pissed off (and am again), I considered Apple's position on my Mac's battery and gave them a pass. I thought maybe things would have changed in AppleCare and the way Apple treats customers since they did replace my optical drive out of warranty, even though that was caused by their firmware update killing the drive. I thought "you know, it's been a couple of years since I've had a REAL run in with AppleCare. I'm sure things have changed". Boy was I wrong. Not only had it not changed, it got significantly worse! This iPod nano will be the last Apple product I purchase if I can help it. I will keep my iPhone 4 but get some sort of protection to cover up the Apple logo. I won't even buy apps from the app store if I can't. Theres nothing worth buying anyway. The games leave a lot to be desired and everything else is useless. As soon as an Android device with a good camera and vanilla Android comes along I'll get it.

I hate HP stuff, because I personally had a lot of issues supporting their laptops, even though their servers were/are decent. So I stopped supporting the company by not continuing to buy their products. I had the authority to do that, so I did.

Good for you. I've done the same with Apple products. A family owned small business I work with was interested in switching their entire business over to Mac minis with a Mac mini server. But I told them how Apple treated me in the past and now. They immediately lost interest and I pointed them in the direction of an upgrade path that will cost them several thousand dollars less and last several years longer thanks to better hardware. They'll also be getting better on-site support and years of warranty/support coverage at no additional cost.

Polaris, did you consider the possibility that PC World is full of Apple Zealots and blind fanboys? That could have something to do with it.

Thats basically it right there.