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Apple’s Software Quality Decline

Renzatic said:
… More eyes on more problems.

There have always been people who have had goofy issues with Apple products. … a small group of people. For the sake of conversation, we'll say about 5%.

… that 5% is suddenly millions of people … It gives off the impression that Apple's once sterling quality control and customer service is sliding downhill, when really it's just the same subset of problems, experienced by an exponentially larger group.

… not going downhill. They've just got more people out there breaking …
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Arguments along the lines of "more eyes" may be amongst the easiest to critique – if we're to believe that Apple's focus is truly something other than making "the most". For the nth time in recent weeks I find myself offering this link:

Apple: the best is not necessarily the most popular

Now, the worst of what's emerging from negative public reaction is far enough from "goofy issues" for me to argue that truly, there is – in just a few areas – a ghastly decline in the quality of software released by Apple.

phrehdd said:
So as not to get into flaming here - first, I'll say there is some truth to what you say as to one facet of this comparison but …

… prefer to take a more clinical view of what is going on and not try to wrap it up in how many units sold vs complaints. -That would be lackluster and misleading.
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There's truly some crap

"… The only thing we'll never do is make a crappy product …"​

In and around the 10.10 release of Yosemite and the 8.0 release of Safari – and some related open source software – there's some crap.

Maybe only a tiny proportion of the software is tainted – and I expect the taint to be smelt by only a tiny minority of customers – but that combination of things does not negate my firm-held belief that the crap exists, and (from my Mac user perspective) the depth of crap in those spots is without precedent.

Those parts of the software are so deeply unlike the Apple of the past that I suspect some serious divisiveness within Apple, and I wonder which person, or group of people, is running with that approach.
 
Declining iOS and OS X Quality Imperil Apple's Future Growth And Retention (Forbes)

Declining iOS and OS X Quality Imperil Apple's Future Growth And Retention (2014-12-22, two pages)

With reference to the article that's linked from the opening post:

"… A growing chorus of developers and Apple-watchers is raising the alarm that the buggy releases of iOS 8 and Yosemite are part of a systemic decline in the quality of Apple’s software. The now-yearly release schedule for both iOS and OS X combined with the increasing complexity of the overall Apple ecosystem have put a strain on its engineers, these voices say. …"​
 
grahamperrin said:
Declining iOS and OS X Quality Imperil Apple's Future Growth And Retention (2014-12-22, two pages)

With reference to the article that's linked from the opening post:

"… A growing chorus of developers and Apple-watchers is raising the alarm that the buggy releases of iOS 8 and Yosemite are part of a systemic decline in the quality of Apple’s software. The now-yearly release schedule for both iOS and OS X combined with the increasing complexity of the overall Apple ecosystem have put a strain on its engineers, these voices say. …"​
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I hate to say it but true.
 
then again... all of us could just be picky :rolleyes: :apple:

But it's true...

I went back to Mavericks because Yosemite has too many beach balls on a clean install... Chrome was constant beach balling upon every opening if u acted too quickly,

There are things i regret upgrading to iOS8 as well.... little things like switching of wifi while searching for networks, does not stick when going back. deleting apps under usage is not instant as it was under previous (aka is actually shows the word "deleting" and u wait)

Most Apple users will just snuff this off, but that we are....

Personally, i reckon Apple is focusing adding to iOS more and more feature wise, that it starts to slow the rest of it down, which kind of forces u to buy the latest iPhone....to make it run better.. (aka iPhone 5s is not that old)
 
Rogifan said:
Hmm...
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-withdraws-another-buggy-update-7000034819/
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Or, you could look at it another way: Microsoft's software is so bug free that a single - let alone two - buggy software upgrades make the news.

On topic, I can't disagree. My girlfriends' 2013 MBP is currently on its 3rd logic board due to graphics driver issues. You could make the case that she's had 2 bad boards that randomly have the same exact problem, but more likely than not there's a bug in the graphics driver that Apple has yet to fix...
 
thejadedmonkey said:
Or, you could look at it another way: Microsoft's software is so bug free that a single - let alone two - buggy software upgrades make the news.

On topic, I can't disagree. My girlfriends' 2013 MBP is currently on its 3rd logic board due to graphics driver issues. You could make the case that she's had 2 bad boards that randomly have the same exact problem, but more likely than not there's a bug in the graphics driver that Apple has yet to fix...
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I'm happy with Windows 8, its been solid and fairly problem free. I think Yosemite is decent but I see a lot of complaint on the bugs and issues.

I think it stems from the shift of releasing OS X annually. Why not roll out the OS when things are a bit tighter code wise. MS seems to be heading in this direction as well, faster (and smaller) updates as opposed to longer larger upgrades.

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smoledman said:
Microsoft makes way better software. Apple makes great hardware.
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In a sense I agree with you and in another sense I disagree with you.

For instance, I love my rMBP, its a great laptop, but the MBP is not defect free.
2008, 2010, 2011 MBPs all have issues with the discrete GPU failing - a design/manufacturing issue that cannot be corrected, i.e., replacing the logic board will only delay another failure.

On current MBPs, many people are experiencing issues with the display, where the coating on the display panel is wearing off.

For the first time in a long time, I'm contemplating a windows machine over a Mac. While I'm not abandoning the platform, I'm being judicious with my limited funds. I think for the price/performance and stability of the hardware and software A windows machine makes more sense.
 
Tech198 said:
then again... all of us could just be picky :rolleyes: :apple:

But it's true...

I went back to Mavericks because Yosemite has too many beach balls on a clean install... Chrome was constant beach balling upon every opening if u acted too quickly,

There are things i regret upgrading to iOS8 as well.... little things like switching of wifi while searching for networks, does not stick when going back. deleting apps under usage is not instant as it was under previous (aka is actually shows the word "deleting" and u wait)

Most Apple users will just snuff this off, but that we are....

Personally, i reckon Apple is focusing adding to iOS more and more feature wise, that it starts to slow the rest of it down, which kind of forces u to buy the latest iPhone....to make it run better.. (aka iPhone 5s is not that old)
Click to expand...

The yearly release cycle now seems to have many spoiled with new features that some have a hard time adjusting to, which is not the case for geeks, but the problem is, Apple doesn't have the man power to release two operating systems a year and that's leading to some embarrassing problems for Mac users.
 
Has it declined or are more people using it would be the first question.
For sure apple across all products are having issues, be the iOS or OS X and those issue are pretty impactful.
 
Michaelgtrusa said:
The yearly release cycle now seems to have many spoiled with new features that some have a hard time adjusting to, which is not the case for geeks, but the problem is, Apple doesn't have the man power to release two operating systems a year and that's leading to some embarrassing problems for Mac users.
Click to expand...

So, whats changed ?

There must of be something that relates to a downward spiral OS.. Maybe lay offs, Apple just stop trying ,,,, *shrugs* something like that...

It's like a round about..... an OS starts with bugs... and by the time u get to 10.9.5, most of the ones are fixed.... that is till we go to 10.10, then it all starts again...

same with iOS...

If MS can keep wifi connected u would think Apple can...... There a more simple company.
 
Snow Leopard worked like snot on a door knob for me... slick, slick, slick. Never had a problem, nary a glitch that lasted more more than a New York Minute/Hong Kong Instant.

I've used Mavs, and while I like some new features (unified accounts being one I personally really like), I have had glitches. Yosemite - ironically - has been more reliable after that last stability update. Prior to that, I was taking :30 trips to the beach several times a day.

What I'd like to see is this: Instead of pushing new features like they did with Mavs to Yosemite (continuity, anyone? ...and who actually needs to have that anyway?) push a Snow Leopard-esque upgrade out that thins it down, streamlines whatever processes need it, and makes it faster and more stable.

It's time for a Snow Leopard 2.0 release I think. Snow Yosemite. Yosemite 2: Too Fast, Too Stable. Yosemite 2: Mac Reloaded...
 
Renzatic said:
When Apple was a smaller company, that 5% wasn't much. (etc.)
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Nicely-written post, but I have to disagree. I've always had bugs with OS X (and Windows and Android and...) and I've never simply dismissed these problems by drinking more from the Apple kool-aid (like these forums were a couple of years ago). But the frequency and magnitude of bugs has increased dramatically lately. I'm not basing this on possibly overblown claims by other users, but on my own personal experience. I've had a lot more crashes on OS X and iOS, I've had several Kernel Panics (and I've experienced very few of these previously).

There's also performance regressions when it comes to OpenGL and such (even from the previously very unimpressive performance typical of OS X)

Also, XCode has finished its evolution into what is by far the least stable development environment I've used. It crashes if you simply look at it funny.

But the kicker is when I see blatant bugs like iTunes 12 hiding the repeat icon, or the overflow in the save sheet. I just can't help but wonder if someone has actually tried using this software at all.

I should also note that while Apple's developers been fairly quick at responding to Bug Reports during the Yosemite DPs, for the past few months they've been ignoring them completely. Maybe they've all been relocated to the Apple Watch to focus on the next money-maker.
 
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Marco Arment has a post up on this which is getting a lot of attention because Business Insider wrote about it with their typical sensationalist headline. Anyway Arment's theory is Apple is doing too much with unrealistic deadlines and it's primarily being driven by marketing.

http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-lost-functional-high-ground

I think he's partially correct and I have stated in the past that I think this should be a "Snow Leoppard" year for Apple where they fix bugs and really polish what they have.

But I've gone back and re-watched parts of WWDC 13 and 14 and outside of the original iPhone launch I can't remember another Apple event where the crowd was as enthusiastic/excited. IMO the majority of the features Apple has announced these past two years are necessary and useful.

Personally I think there are organizational and cultural issues that are at the root of these problems and those are issues that Steve Jobs left Tim Cook when he passed away. Numerous former Apple software engineers have stated that Steve ran Apple like a startup with small teams and lots of secrecy. I don't think that model works any more (outside of teams specifically focused on prototyping new products). Perhaps it just takes time for organizational/cultural shifts to permeate through the company. Especially when it comes to resources. Apple definitely has resource issues but they don't have the space (hence the new campus being built). Browse employee reviews on Glassdoor's website and one of the biggest cons for Apple is work/life balance. Perhaps it's as simple as too much work and not enough engineers. Which goes back to my call for '15 to be about bug fixing and polishing over new features.
 
I prefer and like more Apple software than any other.
Nevertheless I have to agree with poster(s) who pointed out that bug fixing and polishing should be one of the priorities and not the release of new OS and new features.
Last but not least, much thought has to be given before cardinal changes in OS. (I consider Yosemite a disaster in all aspects).
 
Marco Arment tweeted this morning that he has some regrets putting up that blog post because his intention was not to feed into the Apple is DOOMED narrative. Apparently his blog post was a topic of discussion on CNBC this morning. I guess these days anything written on Business Insider becomes a discussion topic on CNBC.
 
Disappearance of the Geoff Wozniak blog post to which Marco Arment referred

Rogifan, big thanks for the link and so on.

Rogifan said:
Marco Arment tweeted this morning that he has some regrets putting up that blog post because his intention was not to feed into the Apple is DOOMED narrative. …
Click to expand...

The recent Geoff Wozniak blog post to which Arment referred is 404, not found. I guess that he, too, didn't want the degree of publicity that was generated by CNBC. In the Internet Archive Wayback Machine:
I ran highlighters over the Arment post. https://diigo.com/077l95 for anyone who's interested.
 
grahamperrin said:
Rogifan, big thanks for the link and so on.

The recent Geoff Wozniak blog post to which Arment referred is 404, not found. I guess that he, too, didn't want the degree of publicity that was generated by CNBC. In the Internet Archive Wayback Machine:
I ran highlighters over the Arment post. https://diigo.com/077l95 for anyone who's interested.
Click to expand...

What's sad is thoughtful criticism gets drowned out as the Business Insiders of the world take something and sensationalize it to get page views. A good example is Fred Wilson, a VC guy who predicted that Watch wouldn't have iPhone level success. Business Insider turned that into 'VC predicts Watch Will Be A Flop', and that in turn was the focus of CNBC all morning one day last week. Now it's the same thing with Arment's software post. Sad really.

And to provide a counter balance, below is a blog post from Daniel Jalkut who currently runs the podcast Core Intuition with Maton Reece and who worked at Apple from 1996-2002.

http://bitsplitting.org/2015/01/05/the-functional-high-ground/
 
Rogifan said:
Good lord, CNBC is as bad as Business Insider these days. :eek:
Click to expand...

True, one more thing to get out of control.

----------
Ulenspiegel said:
Well, now I am starting to have a feeling that there is an "anti-Apple conspiracy" all over the world. Strange.

What is forgotten that there is a classical cliché in "influencing campaigns", after a certain time "forced hate"/negative feelings turn to sympathy. It just takes time. (Like Lima Syndrome).
Click to expand...

When your #1…..
 
Michaelgtrusa said:
True, one more thing to get out of control.
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Unfortunately CNBC has a pretty tight relationship with Henry Blodget and their coverage is heavily tech focused which means if something shows up on Business Insider there's a good chance it will end up on CNBC.
 
Going back to the topic, and after reading the pages here, yes,I am wondering.

I dont subscribe to Apple doing too much. They could trips the size of the teams involved in each project without making the bottom line flicker.

I dont subscribe to Apple;s Mac growth bringing out more voices as more products are in use. Its still a teeny market share.

They may release OSX and iOS annually but its not like a Windows XP to 7 to 8 change. I started with Snow Leopard on an inherited iMac, and that now uses Yosemite, my rMBO I assume was Mavs, now Yosemite. These are all very very similar in look, it seems more adding and removing features than a wholesale new OS. So what is going on?Wifi and Apple in the same sentence will only ever be about unreliability. Thats poor as its JUST wifi, old tech
 
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