When users in the EU try to get Apple to refund them for scams they paid for outside of the App Store I’m just going to laugh. You wanted your subpar Android experience? Well… You got it.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Says It Stopped $7 Billion in Fraudulent Transactions in Last 4 Years
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Good, GOOD, GREAT that Apple makes efforts to keep the invisible bad guys at bay... exactly like that have successfully done for many years on Macs which readily have some of these same EU new features about which so many seem so wound up. I'm quite confident whatever works for Macs can work for iDevices.
Instead of a whole bunch of the same old gloom/doom/disaster spin... which always accompanies these security stories... I'll simply point out that many of these new laws have already been in effect for OVER 2 months now. How much disaster has befallen our poor friends in the EU who may have been early adopters so far? Has anyone seen ONE disaster story yet? One drained bank account? One confirmed virus story?
Last year, we were all doomed to pocket lint extinction, wobbly ports and broken tongues with the EU-driven switch from Lightning ports to USB-C. So many seemed so absolutely certain that there would be a tsunami of disaster from that event too and- to date- I'm yet to trip on ONE USB-C tongue and/or see one USB-C repair kiosk to deal with what must be an overwhelming volume of "wobbly." Even stranger, I'm still readily finding plenty of pocket lint. Does extinction and wobbly and broken not mean what I think it means?
This year's variation of "boy who cried wolf" is the apparent certainty that our EU friends will be doomed by rampant security disasters now that they can generally do what the rest of us have been able to do on our Macs all along. Just as Mac app freedom & flexibility have doomed us all to no end with viruses/trojans/crime syndicates/locusts/frogs/death of first born/4 horseman/etc.... now our poor friends in the EU will get the double whammy of all of the very same problems we Mac people have all suffered. Woe is them. I feel so sorry for them. It has been a total nightmare for all 20+ years I've owned Macs and had these same kinds of freedoms.
In the meantime, much like with the certainty of USB-C adoption disasters last year, I think I'll just wait and see the size & scope of the certain doom to befall what is basically a "closed test cell" (EU only) before buying this year's potential version of "little boy who cried wolf." Why?
Let's see some of this security disaster actually unfold unless we are unable to see it due to the pile of USB-C tongues impeding our view. Else, since the laws are established and Apple is complying, the certain doom (or non-event) will play out in time. 2+ months are already behind us. When does the disaster wave hit? By end of May? By end of June? By end of summer? By end of 2024? Perhaps it is scheduled to show itself right after the global atrocity of that USB-C switch finally hits?
"think different"
Instead of a whole bunch of the same old gloom/doom/disaster spin... which always accompanies these security stories... I'll simply point out that many of these new laws have already been in effect for OVER 2 months now. How much disaster has befallen our poor friends in the EU who may have been early adopters so far? Has anyone seen ONE disaster story yet? One drained bank account? One confirmed virus story?
Last year, we were all doomed to pocket lint extinction, wobbly ports and broken tongues with the EU-driven switch from Lightning ports to USB-C. So many seemed so absolutely certain that there would be a tsunami of disaster from that event too and- to date- I'm yet to trip on ONE USB-C tongue and/or see one USB-C repair kiosk to deal with what must be an overwhelming volume of "wobbly." Even stranger, I'm still readily finding plenty of pocket lint. Does extinction and wobbly and broken not mean what I think it means?
This year's variation of "boy who cried wolf" is the apparent certainty that our EU friends will be doomed by rampant security disasters now that they can generally do what the rest of us have been able to do on our Macs all along. Just as Mac app freedom & flexibility have doomed us all to no end with viruses/trojans/crime syndicates/locusts/frogs/death of first born/4 horseman/etc.... now our poor friends in the EU will get the double whammy of all of the very same problems we Mac people have all suffered. Woe is them. I feel so sorry for them. It has been a total nightmare for all 20+ years I've owned Macs and had these same kinds of freedoms.
In the meantime, much like with the certainty of USB-C adoption disasters last year, I think I'll just wait and see the size & scope of the certain doom to befall what is basically a "closed test cell" (EU only) before buying this year's potential version of "little boy who cried wolf." Why?
"And the boy once again cried 'Wolf! Wolf!' but this time the villagers did not come."
Let's see some of this security disaster actually unfold unless we are unable to see it due to the pile of USB-C tongues impeding our view. Else, since the laws are established and Apple is complying, the certain doom (or non-event) will play out in time. 2+ months are already behind us. When does the disaster wave hit? By end of May? By end of June? By end of summer? By end of 2024? Perhaps it is scheduled to show itself right after the global atrocity of that USB-C switch finally hits?
"think different"
Last edited:
fourth annual propaganda piece for our App Store monopoly.
If by "free" you mean imposed by EU laws specifically crafted to make it happen, then sure, conceded, but it's completely irrelevant to the point I was making.
That goddam gameboy emulator is not available on App Store in EU, only sideload. What if this happens to some life-essential apps?
I am commenting just on that 374M on the consumer side. Those operations will be nearly 100% algorithms on flagging. That's just standard practice for the process for companies at even an intermediate scale.
For a little more background, for this sort of initiative, the people you have working on it are tasked with the A to Z of ETLs, analytics, risk analysis, and model and algorithm refinement. On the back end, that's where you are supposed to have the human component, and it seems like Apple finally has that in place. What's automated there is retrieval of the data and some aggregations so a human can do the review if a user claims they were incorrectly flagged. (I'm sure some of this is now moving to AI, but that's a side conversation.) need people doing manual investigation for people claiming they were incorrectly flagged. That all becomes a set of data inputs that are added to the modeling process, making it a virtuous cycle — if done properly, that is.
I didn't say I was upset at anyone, I was challenging the naive claim that users wouldn't face pressure into using alternative, less secure app stores. Yes they will alway have a "choice", but it's not a net positive if that choice is between an inferior app on a secure store or a superior app on an insecure store.
I’m glad you were able to get it resolved. Personally for me I would never leave any sort of large amount in any 3rd party medium.
My friend uses cash app as their primary banking and I remember last year their entire network was down and wasn’t able to send or receive money or use funds in the account. That’s scary. For like days at a time.
I trust apple more than most but immediately when I get fund it goes straight to my bank lol.
I'm sure you can prove anything with hypothetical pricing, but you're going off on a tangent here. My point was that from my perspective, the App Store model resulted in more choice, better security, and low prices. Maybe you have different priorities, but there isn't a simple tradeoff between choice and security.
Yeah, agreed 100%. I've been an Apple user since the 80s (!) so I think I assigned a level of trust to Apple that I shouldn't have and wouldn't have for any other company. Lesson learned by me!
i dunno any android users side loading, bricking their device or getting a virus. and i know plenty who aren’t tech savvy.
and i doubt you know any neither
phishing has very little to do with your platform
Do people not know that the people commenting here aren't the ones Apple is trying to protect, its the ones that are less versed in the difference in side load versus vetted apps such as my parents. Over the years we've seen its always been this group that has been the target of fraud, not the ones who have a technical understanding between the different between Apple reviewed apps versus a free for all market place.
So your evidence is based solely on personal anecdotes? I work in cybersecurity where we use real numbers or at least estimates with real numbers to determine the biggest threats. We don't need to know the victims personally to understand there are threats. Just think of your PC on the internet and how easy is to get compromised in some way. Multiply that x 100 and that's what we're potentially talking about here.
But that will not stop the people who sideload and get defrauded from somehow blaming Apple or running to the Apple Store and throwing a fit when they are not able to get service. Then of course you will have the ones who will file a class action lawsuit claiming Apple “knew or should have known” that fraud can occur and therefore must be on the hook for the sloppy actions of those same users. Then you will probably have the EU trying to force Apple to support and handle everything even if it has nothing to do with them.
That is assuming apps will be exclusively on one app store rather than multiple. Odds are if the official App Store remains popular almost every app will stay there too.
What’s naive is thinking Apple is pushing against this because it’s trying to protect its end users. Apple is pushing against this because it affects its bottom line. If Apple put the security of its end users first, then features like Private Relay and Hide My Email wouldn’t be locked behind an iCloud subscription.
The App Store model has resulted in one single option so there is inherently no choice. In fact, by definition that is a monopoly.
That is a gross exaggeration and purely speculative. If people don’t know any better then they will learn in time. Maybe there will be growing pains but in the end, users will have an expanded market—which is always a good thing.
Also, don’t worry about the multi-trillion dollar company, they’ll do just fine.
Last edited:
Yes, exclusivity was an essential part of the scenario I described, thank you for explaining my post to me. Nice that you think exclusivity is unlikely but I was responding to someone who seems to be in denial or unaware of even the possibility of exclusivity.
Please take that up with somebody who said that.
Maybe multiple app stores makes YOU happy. You do you. I'm simply speaking from my perspective. I'm more concerned with choices of apps. I see a single, moderated source of apps and updates as a positive.
Sure, by the same definition any individual store is a monopoly. And every manufacturer has a monopoly on its own branded product. It's a meaningless fact.
And Microsoft for their Xbox Streaming App they blocked because they *checks notes* couldn't make money off it.
they will probably find fault with Apple, even if the fraud happened on third party app store.
look at MacOS app store vs iOS app store.
Why would any one publish apps in iOS app store when there are third party app stores, why would they want to pay Apple ?
i don't care if apple allows third party app stores.
i am more concerned about would developers stop publishing app in iOS app store ?
what should i do when they stop publishing apps i need ?
use third party app store and take risk ?
there is, anyone can publish apps in iOS app store.
most apps are free.
Should Sony & Microsoft allow third party app stores in their gaming consoles ?
Should Amazon allow anyone to see on their website for free, to create competition ?