People buy German cars all the time. There are reliability problems but they're just so much better to use.
Same with Macs. I have to deal with the keyboard for now.
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Apple selling defective MacBooks
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Same with Macs. I have to deal with the keyboard for now.
Apple putting the new keyboard on the keyboard replacement program is apple showing how much confidence they have in their own product. To give the consumer confidence apples should bee saying that they have fixed the problem and it works. Apple by adding the new 2019 MacBook Pro to the keyboard replacement program is Apple saying they have put a defective keyboard on the new 2019 MacBook Pro.
Apple have been selling MacBooks with defective keyboards since 2015 and know they are now selling the new 2019 MacBook Pro with a defective keyboard.
They can’t come out and say that they have fixed it, mainly because if they do and even 1 person has an issue with it, they are opening themselves up to lawsuits.
The fact that Apple have added it to the repair program could be seen 2 ways, you can look at it how you are OR you could look at it, that they have confidence in a fix so much so that they are willing to repair it for free, straight out of the gate IF the keyboard issue arises.
I’m not not saying the issue IS fixed, what I’m saying is we don’t know at this point. They have “tweaked” the keyboard and added new materials, this could very well of fixed it. Alternatively it may not have and the issue could still be there.
Personally I’m giving it a little bit of time, to see what reports and reviews are saying.
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That depends on the issue - a keyboard failing won’t put my life, or others’, at risk. I’m happy to run the risk of the keyboard - it’s not like there’s zero risk on every other component or every other computer for that matter. Importantly, there is small chance that the issue will appear.
I’m invested in the ecosystem and really enjoy it, as I enjoy my 2018 MBP. So it’s not a problem for me.
I disagree completely. It shows they are standing behind their product.
You keep using DEFECTIVE over and over. AppleInsider shows these laptops, WITH KEYBOARD issues, are having less repairs in Apple stores than previous models. There are many millions of people using these keyboards without issues. My wife and I are two out of many.
Am I pleased that it takes $500 to repair this keyboard? No. Am I happy with my MBP 2017? Yep. Same for my wife and she uses hers every day for hours and hours and hours for her PhD studies - typing out many ... many papers that pass the 10 page mark.
Am I glad that Apple is standing behind this keyboard for 4 years - something that no other manufacturer does? Yep.
Apple has my confidence and that's a big reason why they get my $.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-at-a-faster-rate-than-the-butterfly-keyboard
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People buy cars with known issues all the time. For example, BMWs eat turbochargers. I have owned several, and had turbo/wastegates repair under warranty, and had to pay for a couple $7500 turbo/wastegate repairs. Now I own a Tesla and it has, "heaven-forbid", panel gaps. Tesla worked on these under warranty and got them realigned but the are still there if you look close enough.
But, the bottom line is I really like these cars. And, each time I drive one I have a smile on my face.
And I also like my 2018 15" MacBook pro. Even with the short key travel and potential of a having a keyboard failure, I smile when I use it and look at the great display, and use the nice features that MacOS provides.
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Another one of these threads...
Putting the 2019 keyboard into the service program isn't an admission that the keyboard has any defects. It is purely a goodwill gesture to consumers that they will be covered for free if they have any issues. More clearly, it is Apple saying to consumers that they don't need to buy Apple Care+ for $350 to feel "safe" when purchasing the new model. People were doing this with the 2018 on launch and this is honestly an extremely customer friendly move by Apple.
Obviously, if you're concerned about the reliability of the keyboard you should skip the current model. But that was going to happen anyway so this isn't aimed at you.
I don't get how people can spin Apple making it very clear that they don't think you should need to buy Apple Care+ as a baseline as a bad thing. Obviously, if you're concerned about the reliability of the butterfly keyboard nothing Apple does short of replacing it entirely would appease.
Putting the 2019 keyboard into the service program isn't an admission that the keyboard has any defects. It is purely a goodwill gesture to consumers that they will be covered for free if they have any issues. More clearly, it is Apple saying to consumers that they don't need to buy Apple Care+ for $350 to feel "safe" when purchasing the new model. People were doing this with the 2018 on launch and this is honestly an extremely customer friendly move by Apple.
Obviously, if you're concerned about the reliability of the keyboard you should skip the current model. But that was going to happen anyway so this isn't aimed at you.
I don't get how people can spin Apple making it very clear that they don't think you should need to buy Apple Care+ as a baseline as a bad thing. Obviously, if you're concerned about the reliability of the butterfly keyboard nothing Apple does short of replacing it entirely would appease.
And if they do replace the keyboard, then we start a new cycle of the keyboard/display/... is defective. xxx-gate, yyy-gate, ....
if this was a 2 cents gumball that taste like tim jobs socks, would you buy another one?
for the record, i have noooo idea what that would taste like, if he wears socks at all.
[doublepost=1559331304][/doublepost]
for the record, i have noooo idea what that would taste like, if he wears socks at all.
[doublepost=1559331304][/doublepost]
and we buy Dells! hurrrah!
Ugh ... Dells. Took me over 10 years to finally convince a family member that used to work for Dell to ditch the brand and try a Thinkpad. They got a used T430 and love it. Well, I don't mean love it ... but they raved about it for like 4 months after they got it.
Is that your assumption or has Apple made a statement to that effect?
That action contradicts their public statements that this keyboard issue affects a SMALL NUMBER of users. So, either Apple was not being truthful about the number of people being affected or they're exercising extreme caution to go through cost of analyzing and designing new material.
Their own statement said something to the effect that the change should reduce the occurrence of the problem. They didn't say it would resolve the problem. That wording indicates that they are NOT confident that they have solved the problem and reveals that is the true reason why the 2019 Macbooks are included in the keyboard program.
Keyboards go bad all the time, in every notebook. I had Dell notebook where it failed and at least 3 non notebook ones (none Apple) which failed. It is the occurrence = probability that it happens manufacturers are trying to manage. Especially when notebook is designed so poorly that it costs arm and leg to replace.
Another words, no one can resolve this problem. Every device, especially this highly packed notebook, will fail once in a while. It should be failing rarely...
"Keyboards go bad all the time, in every notebook" != "All keyboards failing"
!= is not equals.
Where is the source for MacBooks being returned at an alarming rate?
See, it's stuff like this that makes me think the whole reason you're here is to inflame and incite. lol.
oh wrong, i helped many users with sound advice on these forum since 2002. I'm a happy person who hates conflicts.
Now, we really do not need a source for the faulty "butterfly" keyboards that have caused havoc these past year, do we?
Wow a 2002 member, much respect then.
I wonder if you were one of the many that I used to follow.Apple Insider seems to have "proof" of the opposite - 2017, 2018 models going into service at much less rates than before.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...em-to-improve-reliability-and-thats-not-great
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-at-a-faster-rate-than-the-butterfly-keyboard
--- I may not agree with all your posts, but I do find your participation here interesting, so don't get me wrong. Not trying to slap you down.
all is good! my post was harsh but i'm upset i had to leave with mac things over silly, stubborn issues. in the long run i'm glad i did!Wow a 2002 member, much respect then.
Apple Insider seems to have "proof" of the opposite - 2017, 2018 models going into service at much less rates than before.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...em-to-improve-reliability-and-thats-not-great
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-at-a-faster-rate-than-the-butterfly-keyboard
--- I may not agree with all your posts, but I do find your participation here interesting, so don't get me wrong. Not trying to slap you down.
Have to disagree with you there. If there's no way to tell what's causing the keyboard failure, the right thing to do is replace it under the warranty program. They should default to the keyboard being defective.
Look no further than adding the current model to the repair list for peace of mind. Which is great, but it's also 100% clear Apple admits the design/parts/etc. is defective. Hopefully we don't start seeing Apple looking for reasons to deny replacing keyboards.
Apple are acting in bad faith not telling the consumer that they are purchasing a faulty product as they should have known of the butterfly keyboard defects before the Laptops were ever sold to the public, as a result of standard pre-release product testing
only after 2 class action lawsuits were filed apple started the keyboard service program for MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro in June 2018. Before apple started the keyboard service program apple would fix the defective keyboard with another defective keyboard by replacing the top cover and charge £500 for the out of warranty repair ever time the customer had the problem happened.
The program covers eligible MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit.
cross your fingers and hope apple have fixed the defective keyboard or the customer will be the now bearing the cost and its not cheap.
Why did it take apple over 3 years and 2 class action lawsuits for apple to admit sine 2015 the keyboard in the MacBook has been defective?
How log did apple know they we're selling defective MacBooks?
Why was apple selling defective MacBooks and not telling the customer the keyboard was defective?
Why is apple not sending out emails to everyone they send advertising to informing them of the defective keyboard?
As apple were aware they were selling MacBook computers with defective keyboards should they not be offering a full refund for selling goods not fit for purpose?
How log did apple know they we're selling defective MacBooks?
Why was apple selling defective MacBooks and not telling the customer the keyboard was defective?
Why is apple not sending out emails to everyone they send advertising to informing them of the defective keyboard?
As apple were aware they were selling MacBook computers with defective keyboards should they not be offering a full refund for selling goods not fit for purpose?
Why are you asking loaded questions that assume something over and over? This is considered a logical fallacy.
Watch, I can do it too: why are you asking questions that you know aren’t true but do so anyway just to get attention?
Most people don’t have problems with these keyboards. Apple insider shows that even with the supposed keyboard issues the 2016-2018 models are being repaired at fewer rates than 2015 and before models.
Millions of people buy these. Most don’t have problems. IMO to say something is defective it has to affect a significant number of users.
So there you have it. That’s why. Most people aren’t having problems. Apple is standing behind their product, something most other computer manufacturers wouldn’t do.
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questions not true?
My first question with facts to support the question.
Why did it take apple over 3 years and 2 class action lawsuits for apple to admit sine 2015 the keyboard in the MacBook has been defective?
Apple launched its Keyboard service program 22nd June 2018.
MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015) was the first with a defective keyboard.
This link will give you more information it also mentions the 2 class action lawsuits also a change.org petition that has over 36,000 have signed
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/22/apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-repair-program/
As apple monitor sites like this may I ask are you an apple employee?
If any apple employee post here it may be helpful if you say that you work for apple.
and apple are ok with you saying you are an apple employee