Apple should be arrested for daylight robbery [MERGED]

[Ceege]

Ok I’m with you on the feeling that this price increase was a bit ridiculous. But I feel like you’re having revisionist history here. Apple has always been like this
[doublepost=1541213825][/doublepost]

If someone you contracted to do work for you that has done it for 3 years at a certain price but then out of nowhere , for some trivial small reason they make up on the spot decide to jack up the price 30%, you wouldn’t question it at least? We would be in the right to call you entitled then? If you would be totally cool with it no questions asked, then you’re a sucker. Questioning things in life is what grown ups do, not just blindly accepting things and trying to justify it later by repeating apples marketing speak.

I don’t like the price increase, but I’ll probably end up buying it at some point just because I enjoy having an iPad. Why are we supposed to enjoy unnecessary price increases all of a sudden? Like we’re all supposed to have no opinion about it all and walk around like mindless dumb sheep accepting whatever companies throw at us?

Throughout all these whiny super pro Apple fan rants about justifying price increases and how anyone that has an opinion is “entitled” they all just miss what’s abundantly obvious right in front of them: the price to make this is not worthy of a $200 increase. They just raised it because they wanted to raise the average selling price per device/category and they did market research that people would still pay it. They could probably raise it another $100 for no reason at all and some would still pay it. If Apple changed the price on their website tomorrow to be $100 more expensive, people like you would blindly accept it and call everyone else entitled. That’s how ridiculous this is

Entitled is not even remotely the right word for this situation.

This. Just this.

 

[kazmac]

My Apple iDevice purchases since late 2016 cured me of the latest and greatest mobile tech. Will eventually replace my belly up 2017 12.9 with a 10.5. I learned I do not need the latest or greatest and not at those price points. I just want to use and enjoy my tech rather than obsessing on what I do not have. So missing out? Naaah.

 

[Azathoth123]

Yes you are. Apple have suddenly become very expensive. People could afford the top iPhone every year but now it costs an arm and a leg. iPads are either underspecced and affordable or reasonably specced and expensive. Sure Apple have always seen us coming but they now see us coming from a few more miles away. Their business model has changed and when it seemed they would have to lower their prices to compete with Huawei, OnePlus and others they have instead decided to go more exclusive. I'm not sure it was the correct decision.

I’m unsure that this is actually true. Let’s look at cost of iPhones over the ‘run’ for example. The original iPhone in 2007 debuted at $600 and people lined up to buy it. And yes, it was expensive then. Using the US inflation calculator, that’s $943 in today’s dollars. An iPhone XS is what, $56 more?

 

[rui no onna]

I’m unsure that this is actually true. Let’s look at cost of iPhones over the ‘run’ for example. The original iPhone in 2007 debuted at $600 and people lined up to buy it. And yes, it was expensive then. Using the US inflation calculator, that’s $943 in today’s dollars. An iPhone XS is what, $56 more?

I think 4GB was $499 and 8GB $599. Price dropped in a few months with 4GB on clearance at $299, 8GB to $399 and 16GB $499 (the 16GB is when I jumped in). That 16GB NAND probably costs the same as 512GB-1TB now.

Let's be honest though, without the $199 on contract pricing introduced with the iPhone 3G, smartphones likely wouldn't have the same penetration as now.

P.S. The lines upon launch are always interesting but I looked it up and Apple only sold 1.4 million iPhones in 2007 compared to 200+ million now.

 

[Azathoth123]

I think 4GB was $499 and 8GB $599. Price dropped in a few months with 4GB on clearance at $299, 8GB to $399 and 16GB $499 (the 16GB is when I jumped in). That 16GB NAND probably costs the same as 512GB-1TB now.

Let's be honest though, without the $199 on contract pricing introduced with the iPhone 3G, smartphones likely wouldn't have the same penetration as now.

P.S. The lines upon launch are always interesting but I looked it up and Apple only sold 1.4 million iPhones in 2007 compared to 200+ million now.

That’s about how I remember it.

No argument on subsidized prices, just as true now as then.

 

[rui no onna]

That’s about how I remember it.

No argument on subsidized prices, just as true now as then.

True but even on installment plans, there's probably a point when people start balking at the prices. I doubt many would be ardent enough to continue buying iPhones if the monthly installment for just one device alone starts costing as much as a car payment.

Also, inflation may have increased but wages haven't kept up. That means less money for luxury goods.

 

[Azathoth123]

True but even on installment plans, there's probably a point when people start balking at the prices. I doubt many would be ardent enough to continue buying iPhones if the monthly installment for just one device alone starts costing as much as a car payment.

Also, inflation may have increased but wages haven't kept up. That means less money for luxury goods.

I think that your last sentence is true and represents much of the problem. It’s real and unfortunately continues today.

 

[sracer]

So - if a refurb is usually a 15(ish)% discount - where are you seeing retailers selling for 15% off? I think you can see that for iPads - but I've never seen that for phones or laptops...

I regularly see iPhones, Macbooks, iPads, etc. on sale at the local Best Buy at prices that are LESS than refurbs. Sure, if you need to have a particular device TODAY and it is not currently on sale then those sales don't do any good, but those sales DO exist and having a blanket "refurbs are always cheaper" position is not always true. It has been quite a few years since the last time I paid more than Apple refurb prices for new devices.

 

[blairh]

I regularly see iPhones, Macbooks, iPads, etc. on sale at the local Best Buy at prices that are LESS than refurbs. Sure, if you need to have a particular device TODAY and it is not currently on sale then those sales don't do any good, but those sales DO exist and having a blanket "refurbs are always cheaper" position is not always true. It has been quite a few years since the last time I paid more than Apple refurb prices for new devices.

I'm not too familiar with sale prices on iPhone's at BB but I do know about their sales on iPad's and MacBook's. The MacBook sales however are often 24 hour sales at random times. I got my MBP for $1000 price matched by B&H via BB. But I just got lucky learning about the sale online. I know iPad's go on sale often at not just BB but other authorized Apple retailers.

At the same time I see no reason to avoid Apple refurb purchases. If you feel the price they offer is valid and you want it in that moment, pull the trigger. Some people don't want to wait months for something to go on sale potentially.

 

[DaniJoy]

As a professional illustrator and cartoonist, I whole heartedly disagree.

I own a Cintiq 22HD (and an aging iMac from 2012), and since I picked up the first gen iPad Pro 12.9, all the Cintiq has done is collect dust on my desk.

I work for Mad Magazine, I've done illustrations for record companies and other magazines, I did a Rick and Morty comic book cover last year, countless other illustrations and drawings, all of which were drawn on the iPad Pro and using Procreate. So, if you think you HAVE to use a Cintiq / Computer combo to "do art," then you're not that well adversed in what these iOS apps can do.

Is the Cintiq great? Of course. It's the industry standard...but the iPad Pro is gaining ground, and fast. I posted some of the below in a previous thread, but it bares repeating here--

The most low-cost version of the Cintiq is $800, which is literally just a screen and a pen. You still need a computer to run the damn thing (so add another $1k, minimum) Their biggest Cintiq (32 inch) costs over $3300, and again, you still need a computer to use it.

As a price comparison, the lowest cost version of Wacom’s tablet (the MobileStudio Pro) STARTS at $1500 (and that’s with a current $300 off promotion). The 16-inch model of the MobileStudio Pro, maxed out, is $3,300. Their tablets, no matter the version, only have 512g hard drives.

It also weighs over 4 pounds and has a battery life (of “mixed use,” so less if you’re using battery hungry programs) around 6 hours. The plus side, they have 16g of RAM. BUT, it also has to run a full desktop operating system ON TOP of full desktop apps.

Ultimately, the price point of the iPP is much better than what Wacom has to offer. The gap between desktop apps and iOS apps is closing. What's the advantage of a Wacom these days? Not much, in my opinion.

PERSONALLY, the drawing experience on the iPad Pro is SO MUCH BETTER than on the Cintiq (desktop OR tablet version) - the only thing Apple needs to do to fully kill (or mortally wound) Wacom is allow me to hook up the iPP to the Mac for a Cintiq-like experience (without using a 3rd party app like Astro Pad to do so.) The Apple Pencil is MILES better than any Wacom pen I've ever used.

I still need to run to my iMac or MacBook to do work on Illustrator, but I've become way less attached to Photoshop BECAUSE of great apps like Procreate, which focus solely on the drawing experience for the user.

Long story short: the iPad Pro rules, and I'll never buy another Wacom product again.

this is only true for your workflow. comics and illustration can be done on a 10 year old tablet PC like tercra m4, and a fully kitted out ipad pro 1tb is $2500. you can get a way better tablet pc for that price, and not have to deal with as much performance/workflow limits.

Really drawing on a tiny 13" screen all day is more comfortable than drawing on a 32" cintiq? I draw all day for commercials, animation, for big corporate clients . no way i would say a ipad pro is more comfortable than the cintiq. perhaps if i want to leave the studio sure its lighter than my MSP16, but i would still rather have the bigger size if im working. apple needs pro sized tablets if they are ever going to be pro solutions. If i need the best drawing experience, ill grab my $10 sketchbook.

i agree it would be nice to use the ipad pro as a screen. been wishing for that for years. that way i can use an actually powerful computer with the tablet, and still have the light duty iOS apps to use when they come handy.

Its interesting we have the exact opposite view. My ipad mostly collects dust while i use cintiq 27" and MSP16" all day long.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Living in the Middle East and seeing many wonderful cars I can certainly say that Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz don’t make the best cars in the world, they make good cars but far from the best. But like most things it comes down to individual opinion whether that be cars or iPads

Actually you’re both wrong - Mercedes-Benz actually makes the best car in the world. Lewis Hamilton proves that the Mercedes-Benz F1W09 is in fact the best car in the world.

 

[Perene]

It’s not just Iphone figures they’re not presenting. It’s macs and iPads. Apple have realised that people aren’t going to constantly upgrade devices. And with the likes of iOS working on a device 5 years old and apples premium quality in materials why would they need to? Therefore the market is slowly declining on all products year by year because they’ve almost achieved the highest market they possibly can.

The way to overcome this is to increase prices to still make revenue which is what they’re doing but again if someone’s going to pay £1000 for an iPad Pro. They’re not going to upgrade each year probably for the next 3 the same goes with Macs.

As long as Apple put great features in their devices they can afford to up the price slightly because it’s much more difficult for people in the ecosystem to have to replace all their devices I.e- laptop,phone, Watch rather than upgrade. However there will come a point where it will become too expensive. This is why they’re concentrating on their services. Like making their own Netflix. Millions have apple devices so if they’re not going to upgrade every year they will always have a device to use Apple services

----
Well said... and come to think I believe Apple lied about their own financial health and already reached that point perhaps years ago. What you don't get it is that their services are overpriced, too.

What I really think has happened here with this 32% increase is that Apple is trying to profit no less than X from the fewer customers who are going to buy these tablets. iPAD sales are almost 10 times lower than iPhones and will never grow no matter what Apple adds to them (and the improvements are not worth paying that much more).

I really hope tablets don't die, I can't stand smartphones. I also hope Samsung puts more effort in their Galaxy Tab so I can finally abandon this sinking ship.

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

You can still buy a 10.5 Pro with 256Gb for less than that.

So,
iPad 6/128 - €450
iPad 10.5”/256 - €900

These are my options. I guess I am skipping this iteration of iPads, too.

 

[droog]

As a professional illustrator and cartoonist, I whole heartedly disagree.

I own a Cintiq 22HD (and an aging iMac from 2012), and since I picked up the first gen iPad Pro 12.9, all the Cintiq has done is collect dust on my desk.

I work for Mad Magazine, I've done illustrations for record companies and other magazines, I did a Rick and Morty comic book cover last year, countless other illustrations and drawings, all of which were drawn on the iPad Pro and using Procreate. So, if you think you HAVE to use a Cintiq / Computer combo to "do art," then you're not that well adversed in what these iOS apps can do.

Is the Cintiq great? Of course. It's the industry standard...but the iPad Pro is gaining ground, and fast. I posted some of the below in a previous thread, but it bares repeating here--

The most low-cost version of the Cintiq is $800, which is literally just a screen and a pen. You still need a computer to run the damn thing (so add another $1k, minimum) Their biggest Cintiq (32 inch) costs over $3300, and again, you still need a computer to use it.

As a price comparison, the lowest cost version of Wacom’s tablet (the MobileStudio Pro) STARTS at $1500 (and that’s with a current $300 off promotion). The 16-inch model of the MobileStudio Pro, maxed out, is $3,300. Their tablets, no matter the version, only have 512g hard drives.

It also weighs over 4 pounds and has a battery life (of “mixed use,” so less if you’re using battery hungry programs) around 6 hours. The plus side, they have 16g of RAM. BUT, it also has to run a full desktop operating system ON TOP of full desktop apps.

Ultimately, the price point of the iPP is much better than what Wacom has to offer. The gap between desktop apps and iOS apps is closing. What's the advantage of a Wacom these days? Not much, in my opinion.

PERSONALLY, the drawing experience on the iPad Pro is SO MUCH BETTER than on the Cintiq (desktop OR tablet version) - the only thing Apple needs to do to fully kill (or mortally wound) Wacom is allow me to hook up the iPP to the Mac for a Cintiq-like experience (without using a 3rd party app like Astro Pad to do so.) The Apple Pencil is MILES better than any Wacom pen I've ever used.

I still need to run to my iMac or MacBook to do work on Illustrator, but I've become way less attached to Photoshop BECAUSE of great apps like Procreate, which focus solely on the drawing experience for the user.

Long story short: the iPad Pro rules, and I'll never buy another Wacom product again.

. I am a animator at a large company. I find it to be an over priced toy. I just sold my first gen. The guy didn’t even want the pencil so I have to sell it separately.

 

[jagolden]

Well... Apple has just released their new iPad Pro and I’m speechless, if you were going to use this iPad as a computer you would need to get the bigger size, the keyboard case and the Apple Pencil, all of this would cost £1,287, yet I can go buy the new MacBook Air for £1,199 and that has a bigger display, a physical keyboard, Touch ID, 2 USB C ports compared to 1 and 128gb compared to the base model iPad Pro 12.9” at 64gb. This is absolutely outrageous Apple are charging more money for their iPads than for their laptops, I can’t tell you how angry I am, I feel like Apple are trying to rob me, they should of at least included the Appl pencil and or the keyboard case in the box, this makes me feel sick.

How are they "robbing" you? It’s all in your hands to decide what to buy.
If you think the MB Air is a better deal, buy it.
As to the keyboard case, why? I have no problem using the on-screen keyboard for long typing sessions.
Apple Pencil? So how many pressure sensitive MBs does Apple make? And try using a pencil on a steep angled screen.
It’s all about what you need. I don’t agree with the anger. Apple has always found ways to maximize their profits at our expense. I’ve been buying Apple for 32 years. I’ve been indoctrinated and have become inured to their "logic".

 

[Azathoth123]

Deleted, lol

 

[jagolden]

this is only true for your workflow. comics and illustration can be done on a 10 year old tablet PC like tercra m4, and a fully kitted out ipad pro 1tb is $2500. you can get a way better tablet pc for that price, and not have to deal with as much performance/workflow limits.

Really drawing on a tiny 13" screen all day is more comfortable than drawing on a 32" cintiq? I draw all day for commercials, animation, for big corporate clients . no way i would say a ipad pro is more comfortable than the cintiq. perhaps if i want to leave the studio sure its lighter than my MSP16, but i would still rather have the bigger size if im working. apple needs pro sized tablets if they are ever going to be pro solutions. If i need the best drawing experience, ill grab my $10 sketchbook.

i agree it would be nice to use the ipad pro as a screen. been wishing for that for years. that way i can use an actually powerful computer with the tablet, and still have the light duty iOS apps to use when they come handy.

Its interesting we have the exact opposite view. My ipad mostly collects dust while i use cintiq 27" and MSP16" all day long.

...and this is only true for your workflow. He didn’t "note" that his clients were "big corporate clients" so none of us know enough to be diss’ing his workflow.
While I really like my 27" iMac, I find myself using the 12.9" more and more. Just need to have the right software.

 

[lowkey]

Apples profit margin is 26%.
Macdonalds is 45%.
So who is fleecing their customers to a greater degree?

Apples profit margins are the LOWEST since 2009. Fact.

http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/a...-1-trillion-honey-i-shrunk-the-profit-margins

 

[1144557]

If someone you contracted to do work for you that has done it for 3 years at a certain price but then out of nowhere , for some trivial small reason they make up on the spot decide to jack up the price 30%, you wouldn’t question it at least? We would be in the right to call you entitled then? If you would be totally cool with it no questions asked, then you’re a sucker. Questioning things in life is what grown ups do, not just blindly accepting things and trying to justify it later by repeating apples marketing speak.

Throughout all these whiny super pro Apple fan rants about justifying price increases and how anyone that has an opinion is “entitled” they all just miss what’s abundantly obvious right in front of them: the price to make this is not worthy of a $200 increase. They just raised it because they wanted to raise the average selling price per device/category and they did market research that people would still pay it. They could probably raise it another $100 for no reason at all and some would still pay it. If Apple changed the price on their website tomorrow to be $100 more expensive, people like you would blindly accept it and call everyone else entitled. That’s how ridiculous this is

Entitled is not even remotely the right word for this situation.

You would be looked upon as a flake at best; and likely reviewed negatively into the dirt by people. You would probably lose somewhere between 50-100% of your old customers/clients as well.

I'd pay to see some people's reactions if their bills for their wireless carrier or internet provider at home went up 25% tomorrow "just because" and the number of spaz-outs that occurred. Or they're just stupid and an utter mindless sucker. You add a whopping 50 cent surcharge to a wireless bill and there are national news articles and freakout threats to leave the carrier

But when Apple does it the fanbois call you a peasant and poor. It's almost so comical it's pathetic how truly bad and hypocritical the diehard Apple sheep have become.

I don’t understand why people are having problems. If you don’t like Apple products, pricing, business model, TOU, what evah, buy something else. Am I missing something here?

Clearly. So you dont like your electric company's pricing. Go buy something else! Not exactly so possible when you hold the monopoly.

What are your realistic other tablet mobile OS (not Windows) choices exactly? A crap Kindle Fire or Galaxy Tab S4?

Sure, about the same alternatives as buying a Generac generator to try to power your house full time to avoid the electric company.

How about demanding companies NOT rip their customers off and increase prices "just because"

Or is the proposition here to just keep taking it sans lube again next year when prices go up another 25% to $999/1250 base price "just because" and the Apple defenders come to bat again?

 

[SactoGuy18]

In the end, I ended up ordering the iPad Pro 10.5" 256 GB WiFi model. The 11" iPad Pro 256 GB WiFi is WAY too expensive for its capabilities and the switch to USB-C means I can't use the Lightning cables I already have now, let alone the Lightning headphones I have!

 

[Azathoth123]

Clearly. So you dont like your electric company's pricing. Go buy something else! Not exactly so possible when you hold the monopoly.

What are your realistic other tablet mobile OS (not Windows) choices exactly? A crap Kindle Fire or Galaxy Tab S4?

Sure, about the solution as buying a Generac generator to power your house full time to avoid the electric company.

How about demanding companies NOT rip their customers off and increase prices "just because" Or just taking it sans lube again next year when prices go up another 25% to $999/1250 base price "just because?"

Apple phones are not basic heating, and they are in no way an electrical company, it’s silly to compare them as such.. You don’t have to have them at all. You can do very well without them.

Other tablet options? I am extremely sorry that your other quoted options don’t measure up. Hey, here’s a thought, maybe they should compete, and offer the same services cheaper! I am all ears sir!

 

[rillrill]

No matter what people feel about your comments - I think they should take the thoughts of the analyst in the video to heart. Before I watched that video - I kind of thought Apple was raising prices using 'maximizing shareholder value' as their most important guide - even if that means not maximizing the value to some stakeholders - customers.

After seeing that video - I completely agree that Apple, in raising prices and going up market, will make their market smaller. That's bad for people who make apps for a living - but more importantly to Apple and their shareholders - that's going to put the brakes on maximum growth in services revenue from Apple. That's not very smart from any stakeholder's point of view. Maybe they should invite the head of that division into the meetings when they set the prices for their next iPad.

Thanks, man. And I'm not trying to poop on anyone's love for Apple here. Just stating what I've been seeing over the last 15 years. Apple went from being almost non-existent to the mega company it is today. I'm sure we all benefited from their devices and software in some way. I know Apple made my life and work a hell of a lot easier using OSX than windows.

But you make an excellent point about what could happen if Apple prices the common people out of the market - a lot of app developers have been relying on Apple's customers, but if those customers go to another platform than it will mos def affect these people - and the domino effect will reverberate back to Apple and so on. I mean, I suppose that's what the iPhone XR is supposed to solve; time will tell.

 

[Perene]

S.hit, this is worse than I thought. Even the SK will not work with these new iPADs.

In 2017 I spent:

- US$ 34.99 in the Lightning Male to USB Type-C Male Cable (6.6' / 2 m)
- US$ 49 in the 29W USB Type-C Power Adapter
- US$ 149.99 in the Smart Keyboard for the 10.5 IPP
- US$ 829 in the IPP 10.5 (256 GB, wifi+cell)
- Not to mention the old Apple Pencil
- The Smart Cover
- A Khomo rear case

And now I am supposed to:

- Sell every single thing and hope that some suck... ops, buyer compensate for my inevitable losses, since it will be impossible to sell all items for the same price I paid a year ago.

Then I'll have to spend a lot more buying all the new things, even if I want the same capacity (256 GB). The 256 GB LTE (IPP 11) is 32% more expensive.

This isn't just about the iPAD, I would have to replace every single item from that list.

Which I would consider doing if the prices were the same. And if the improvements were worth paying more.

Is there someone really in doubt Apple will fail and fail tremendously with this scam?

I'll only say this: truth is the daughter of time. We'll see who's going to take the hit in the end.

 

[Ladybug]

I generally agree. I think that is why some are having difficulty adjusting. There's a difference between paying a premium for a well-designed, well-made, well-functioning product and a cynical money-grab. Not everyone will see it. It doesn't mean one has to be angry at Apple for doing it, but simply acknowledge the reality of the situation.

I see what Apple is doing, and for the decreasing number of products that offer value and suit my needs, I buy them... otherwise I give them a pass. But there's a psychological element at play where people feel like they are "missing out" by not buying the latest and greatest.

Good point! While Apple products are well made generally (had an iPad Pro 9.7 bite the dust after 14 months recently), most of the updates are merely incremental at best. I'm off the upgrade train as it stands. I even went back to PC's rather than purchasing another Mac two years ago. My iPhone 8 and my 10.5 iPad should last me a few more years at least. After that who knows...it’s up to Apple to offer products that offer better value, not to just become the most expensive. The next few years will be interesting I’m sure.

 

[skaertus]

You all know Apple sells cheaper iPads right? There’s more Apple devices at all end of the price spectrum than ever. Devices that still is the A9, A10 and A11 are still awesome user experiences and much cheaper.

The new iPads are awesome. They blow away every tablet. You’re getting a mobile soc with laptop performance and literally the best screens on the market, especially with True Tone and all that. It’s going to be expensive.

I look at this differently. If Apple kept their top end prices lower, we probably wouldn’t get as cool devices. A $900 iPad can afford more tech than a $400 iPad. Is it all needed for everyone? No, and that’s why it’s not the only option. The same can be said for every Apple product on the market. Most competitors show this too - there are cheaper laptops or tablets out there with comparable cpu/memory/screen resolution, but you don’t get as much inside.

Threads like this piss me off because people want everything and cheaper. Running a business doesn’t work like that. Pick more things or cheaper price.

I like having cool **** and I’m happy Apple is pushing the boundaries on this. I totally understand how people would be disappointed about not being able to afford the top end stuff, but it’s stupid to think Apple is nefarious in this. It’s the same supply and demand curve every company uses.

Apple is pushing the limits, this is not absolutely normal behavior. It is not the point that people want cheaper products. It is the point that Apple is increasing the prices of its products every year.

A $900 iPad can do a lot, definitely, and things a $400 iPad cannot do. But the $400 iPad is basically the same thing as it was years ago, and its production cost is much lower now. The price Apple charges does not reflect the production costs. It reflects a supply/demand curve, and a perception of how much customers will be willing to pay.

It is curious how Apple is increasing the iPad prices after it dizimated the tablet industry.