Apple should be arrested for daylight robbery [MERGED]

[lowkey]

I don’t like the price increase, but I’ll probably end up buying it at some point just because I enjoy having an iPad....

.... They just raised it because they wanted to raise the average selling price per device/category and they did market research that people would still pay it. They could probably raise it another $100 for no reason at all and some would still pay it.

It doesn’t take an economics degree to know that is literally the test for whether something is overpriced or not. If you can raise the price of your product and still sell it, it is by definition not overpriced.

You just think you’re entitled to it for less.

 

[rafark]

People are holding onto devices for longer these days.

The new ipad costs the same as a mac book (actually more with the keyboard), the problem is that it comes with iOS. it is a disposable OS. It is not reliable for the long term. I have an 11 year old mac with OS X that can still do the job. An ios device with half the years of that mac is pretty much useless today. If Apple wants to charge that much for the ipad, then they should give the iPad the same reliability and flexibility as a Mac. That includes, at the very least, allowing appstore-less apps and removing the OS downgrade lock.

 

[Ghost31]

Sorry. I should have said “if a supplier of mine raised their prices I’d start a discussion with online strangers about how their time should be set by my expectations rather than by their business. Then I’d complain that their service isn’t as good as it used to be when that guy Steve was around. That guy Steve would never let this happen!”

Justify for me why the Smart Keyboard is also more expensive? Is fade I’d

It doesn’t take an economics degree to know that is literally the test for whether something is overpriced or not. If you can raise the price of your product and still sell it, it is by definition not overpriced.

LOL

thats...literally not what we are talking about. Worth is totally subjective. Apple could raise the price of the iPad another $100 and we could fall on that “well worth is subjective hehe” argument because people would still buy it. “Worth” And “if the price increase was justified for the changes or just a cash grab” are two completely different arguments.

Not sure why you’re leaning on worth and if people will buy it.i said myself I’ll probably buy it at some point but also don’t see why the price increase was justified.

You couldn’t justify the price increase of the Smart Keyboard. Therefore the increase was most likely a cash grab and just charging more because they can. Which is entirely what this thread is about. So are you agreeing with me by accident?

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

People are holding onto devices for longer these days.

In my case, I hold onto my iPad Air 2 for longer because I have to. The air has only 64GB which is already filled up and if I went for the 6 with 128GB it would fill up within a year or year and a half. I need 256GB of storage. So the only option for me is the new 11” @ €1050 which is more than twice the cost of a 6/128GB (€450)

Guess what. I was ready to buy a new pro but am skipping. I only regret that 3 years ago I did not buy the Air 2 with 128GB for €100 more.

 

[lowkey]

I don’t need to justify their price. All I need to do is decide if it’s the right keyboard for me and buy it or not. I’m going to use a spare Bluetooth Apple keyboard instead. I’m going to be using the pencil a lot and don’t think I’ll be needing a keyboard when travelling.

Who knows why the cost is more. Could be your joke of a president slapping tariffs on Chinese made goods for all I know.

Justify for me why the Smart Keyboard is also more expensive? Is fade I’d

thats...literally not what we are talking about. Worth is totally subjective. Apple could raise the price of the iPad another $100 and we could fall on that “well worth is subjective hehe” argument because people would still buy it. “Worth” And “if the price increase was justified for the changes or just a cash grab” are two completely different arguments.

Not sure why you’re leaning on worth and if people will buy it.i said myself I’ll probably buy it at some point but also don’t see why the price increase was justified.

You couldn’t justify the price increase of the Smart Keyboard. Therefore the increase was most likely a cash grab and just charging more because they can. Which is entirely what this thread is about. So are you agreeing with me by accident?

 

[Ghost31]

I do t need to justify their price. All I need to do is decide if it’s the right keyboard for me and buy it or not. I’m going to use a spare Bluetooth Apple keyboard instead.

Who knows why the cost is more. Could be your joke of a president slapping tariffs on Chinese made goods for all I know.

ok. So you don’t wanna question why the price is the way it is. Cool. Why come to a thread and criticize those that do then?

 

[lowkey]

It’s either because it costs more to make. The tariffs are higher. Or the profit margin is more. It might be elements of all 3.

This thread is about supposed daylight robbery. On a product that you have pointed out would still sell well if it was priced higher. LOL

It’s about a guy being angry because he thinks a company should price one of their products lower...even if it’s less than 2 hours of his income.

 

[Ghost31]

It’s either because it costs more to make. The tariffs are higher. Or the profit margin is more. It might be elements of all 3.

This thread is about supposed daylight robbery. On a product that you have pointed out would still sell well if it was priced higher. LOL

It’s about a guy being angry because he thinks a company should price one of their products lower...even if it’s less than 2 hours of his income.

Of coarse it would still sell. It’s a great product and apple literally created the tablet market and destroyed everything else. I know I’m excited to get one at some point.

I’ll agree with you on the outright hyperbole and the “sending apple a message for ripping us off” rhetoric. Maybe that’s where we kinda veered off in these little chats. My only position is “it’s definitelty a cash grab and that sucks. Still gonna buy one though”.

 

[rui no onna]

I’ll agree with you on the outright hyperbole and the “sending apple a message for ripping us off” rhetoric. Maybe that’s where we kinda veered off in these little chats. My only position is “it’s definitelty a cash grab and that sucks. Still gonna buy one though”.

I think I'll probably wait for discounts at the very least.

The only thing I really want is more storage but I'm not hurting for storage right now unlike in previous years (have ~600-650GB effective space spread across 512GB Pro 12.9 and 256GB Pro 9.7). I was always at the point where I couldn't update apps without deleting stuff because I had no more free space.

 

[lowkey]

Or waiting for a refurb!

I’m just going with the base 64GB 12.9” IPP. With Dropbox iCloud I think I’ll be fine. For me it’s not a computer replacement but another tool

 

[rui no onna]

Or waiting for a refurb!

I’m just going with the base 64GB 12.9” IPP. With Dropbox iCloud I think I’ll be fine. For me it’s not a computer replacement but another tool

Yeah, refurbs are definitely an option. Depending on carrier promos, though, sometimes brand new via carrier can be cheaper than refurb.

Lol, my PC has ~5TB local plus another 20TB on NAS (one of their primary functions is to serve content to the iPad). The iPad has replaced computers for ~80-90% of my personal usage but it certainly won't be replacing my PC in terms of storage.

 

[Macalicious2011]

I kind of agree lol.

Apple seems like Chevrolet and Ford WRT to their racing programs in the old days. Chevrolet and Ford (or anyone else for that matter) didn’t race for fun - at least not just for fun - they developed cutting edge technology that was tested on the track and migrated down to the cars we all drive. No mainstream car company anywhere raced for glory alone. Hey, they could forego that and be Lada or Yugo (no disrespect to those busines models).

I believe Apple kind of does the same thing - offers high end tech at a premium, but guess what, in a couple of years the same tech is in mainstream products.

So it isn’t diminishing returns, it’s testing new tech, what works, what customers like, and then it’s folded into future products.

If is diminishing returns abs that can be seen by people keeping their phones for longer.

Samsung has started losing market share to Chinese manufacturers offering 90% of the performance and experience at 50% of the cost.

On the iPhone front I used to see the latest iPhone in many peoples hands thr moment I came out. Nowadays I see plenty of people still using iPhone 6, 7, 5s and even 8.

For what most people do on their phones and tablets. Upgrading to the iPad Pro is now like upgrading to a maxed out macbook or dell laptop - it's overkill for media consumption and light gaming.

I keep my ipads for a long period anyway and won't upgrade until the pro has a 4k display.

 

[alFR]

So the only option for me is the new 11” @ €1050 which is more than twice the cost of a 6/128GB (€450)

You can still buy a 10.5 Pro with 256Gb for less than that.

 

[MDA84]

You can still buy a 10.5 Pro with 256Gb for less than that.

Keep in mind that 10.5 seems to be widely affected with screen deteriorating after 1 year... see the post on 10.5 white spot on this forum

 

[Ghost31]

Keep in mind that 10.5 seems to be widely affected with screen deteriorating after 1 year... see the post on 10.5 white spot on this forum

Wow this is a thing? I just noticed a white spot forming on mine recently

 

[1144557]

Honestly, I don’t know why I expected a response other than this. My fault I guess.

Anyway, the title of the original post is definitely hypberole, but the idea around it is sound. Valid criticism of a price increase.

God damn people. We’ve done this so many times over the years and it’s like the same responses copy and pasted over and over again.
[doublepost=1541217090][/doublepost]
Accessible personal consumer electronics is SO much like a Lamborghini

...I thought we were done with the ridiculously non applicable car metaphors years ago

Never thought this would come out of my mouth as an iphone user since the 3GS, but the answer is Apple sheep. Nothing more, nothing less.

The "diehard defenders" are becoming disgraceful to actually stoop to making fun of people who dont want to blindly shovel money into Apple's pocket anymore while they raise prices at an astronomical rate in the past 2 years. How dare one question the all mighty king Apple, just pay whatever they demand you poor peasant.

No wonder the studies show only 39% of Americans have enough cash to afford a $1,000 emergency; I thought that was nonsense it couldn't be that low for only $1,000, but starting to believe it. Utterly blind consumerism.

It is 100% within all consumers' rights to question corporations. If people didn't question Apple they would have never come forward with the iPhone 4 antenna issue, or bend issues in the iphone 6. Or the minor software issues on the newest iphones and prior OS versions. Same with OS exploits, it took people questioning Apple as not perfect and finding those to get them patched. People questioning Apple brought all of those issues to light.

Especially when a product goes up 25% in cost in just 1 year.

If your Comcast bill suddenly went up from $200 to $250, 25% and "just because," 99% of people would freak out calling them WTF why is my bill going up $50. That's a NORMAL reaction to feeling ripped off with "just because" price hike. It's not that the person can't afford $50 in most cases (or the extra $200 on an iPad) it is why are you getting it without lube; the principal. Who actually WANTS to spend more money just because?

 

[sracer]

Apple spells out their refurb process in detail on the refurb webpage.

Actually they don't. They describe what they do in general terms that are open to interpretation.

As for them being a terrible deal, that is subjective. There are plenty of people, myself amongst them, who feel differently.

People, at least here in the US, can often buy new Apple products on sale for prices LESS THAN refurbs. THAT makes refurbs a terrible deal. But I know that there are die-hard refurb fans, who even say that they prefer them to new. Rock on!

 

[lowkey]

If the iPad Pro costs $450 or $500 makes no difference to the problem you identified. Those problems are way deeper than that. As you have touched on, there are huge amounts of people who could never afford an iPad let alone an iPad Pro. They are pretty much excluded from forums like this because they have bigger challenges. That’s why a whole bunch of (relatively) well off people complaining that their new shiny toy is $50 more than they want it to be is so pathetic.

Never thought this would come out of my mouth as an iphone user since the 3GS, but the answer is Apple sheep. Nothing more, nothing less.

The "diehard defenders" are becoming utterly pitiful to actually stoop to making fun of people who dont want to blindly shovel money into Apple's pocket anymore while they raise prices at an astronomical rate in the past 2 years. How dare one question the all mighty king Apple, just pay whatever they demand you poor peasant.

No wonder the studies show only 39% of Americans have enough cash to afford a $1,000 emergency; I thought that was nonsense it couldn't be that low for only $1,000, but starting to believe it. Utterly blind consumerism.

It is 100% within all consumers' rights to question corporations. If people didn't question Apple they would have never come forward with the iPhone 4 antenna issue, or bend issues in the iphone 6. Or the minor software issues on the newest iphones and prior OS versions. Same with OS exploits, it took people questioning Apple as not perfect and finding those to get them patched. People questioning Apple brought all of those issues to light.

Especially when a product goes up 25% in cost in just 1 year.

If your Comcast bill suddenly went up from $200 to $250, 25% and "just because," 99% of people would freak out calling them WTF why is my bill going up $50. That's a NORMAL reaction to feeling ripped off with "just because" price hike. It's not that the person can't afford $50 in most cases (or the extra $200 on an iPad) it is why are you getting it without lube; the principal. Who actually WANTS to spend more money just because?

But to call people names and "poor" not to bow to Apple and pay them whatever they demand is absolutely disgusting. It's never ok to mock someone based upon a financial choice; especially one where their money stays in their pocket and being responsible.

[doublepost=1541252475][/doublepost]Unfortunately here in Australia it’s very rare that Apple equipment is sold on sale anywhere. There are very few non-Apple outlets. So it’s not a very competitive market. I’ve bought refurbs more than brand new because it’s almost the only way to save.

We never have iMacs on the refurb store though. Like NEVER. I have no idea where they all go if they are returned to be fixed and resold?!?

Actually they don't. They describe what they do in general terms that are open to interpretation.


People, at least here in the US, can often buy new Apple products on sale for prices LESS THAN refurbs. THAT makes refurbs a terrible deal. But I know that there are die-hard refurb fans, who even say that they prefer them to new. Rock on!

 

[rillrill]

Never thought this would come out of my mouth as an iphone user since the 3GS, but the answer is Apple sheep. Nothing more, nothing less.

The "diehard defenders" are becoming disgraceful to actually stoop to making fun of people who dont want to blindly shovel money into Apple's pocket anymore while they raise prices at an astronomical rate in the past 2 years. How dare one question the all mighty king Apple, just pay whatever they demand you poor peasant.

No wonder the studies show only 39% of Americans have enough cash to afford a $1,000 emergency; I thought that was nonsense it couldn't be that low for only $1,000, but starting to believe it. Utterly blind consumerism.

It is 100% within all consumers' rights to question corporations. If people didn't question Apple they would have never come forward with the iPhone 4 antenna issue, or bend issues in the iphone 6. Or the minor software issues on the newest iphones and prior OS versions. Same with OS exploits, it took people questioning Apple as not perfect and finding those to get them patched. People questioning Apple brought all of those issues to light.

Especially when a product goes up 25% in cost in just 1 year.

If your Comcast bill suddenly went up from $200 to $250, 25% and "just because," 99% of people would freak out calling them WTF why is my bill going up $50. That's a NORMAL reaction to feeling ripped off with "just because" price hike. It's not that the person can't afford $50 in most cases (or the extra $200 on an iPad) it is why are you getting it without lube; the principal. Who actually WANTS to spend more money just because?

But to call people names and "poor" not to bow to Apple and pay them whatever they demand is absolutely disgusting. It's never ok to mock someone based upon a financial choice; especially one where their money stays in their pocket and being responsible with money.

Well said. And there is no revionist history here. Since those 2016 MacBook Pros the prices if Apple’s hardware have dramatically increased. But there’s no changing people’s minds about Apple’s tactics if they can’t see the big picture I guess.

PS -

 

[noanker]

Actually they don't. They describe what they do in general terms that are open to interpretation.

Interpretation indeed. That Apple doesn't state in a way you would like what processes are followed, doesn't invalidate the product nor does it make it an inferior value. This sounds suspiciously like confirmation bias on your part to support your belief that refurbs are an inferior product and value versus brand new.

People, at least here in the US, can often buy new Apple products on sale for prices LESS THAN refurbs. THAT makes refurbs a terrible deal. But I know that there are die-hard refurb fans, who even say that they prefer them to new. Rock on!

Again, from my last reply to your prior post, your claim of "reports of Apple refurbs having no visible sign of cleaning/repairing", where are these reports you mention? Are they confirmed by some independent authority who can validate that to be a true statement? If so, what is the evidence? Please provide a valid source. I'd love to know more if this can be proven.

And finally, please provide the evidence to support your claim that 'US consumers can often buy new Apple products on sale for prices less than refurbs." Remember, you're stating SALE prices. Sales are usually temporary in nature whereas the Apple refurb prices are relatively more stable over a period of time.

 

[Azathoth123]

I don’t understand why people are having problems. If you don’t like Apple products, pricing, business model, TOU, what evah, buy something else. Am I missing something here?

 

[blairh]

As stated, it has nothing to do with "pro" or not. You are stuck between a 9.7 crappy non-laminated display they give out to elementary school kids for $329, or a 11" Pro for $799 or 12.9" at $999

Buying a 10.5 chunky bezel touch ID right now to use for 2-3-4 years for $650 is a piss poor value and the old 12.9 is gone totally.

What exactly would be wrong with a "normal" ipad at 11-12" the same as the current form factor without pen support, and A10x instead of A12x, same 4gb of RAM for say $650?

How would that be "bad" for even professional use for people who want a big display to do side by side apps but have zero need for pen support or the fancy new CPU running console games?

An XR of iPads. Still a good device but not top tier.

I bill $300 USD per hour, DOUBLE what you do (415 AUD it appears). It has nothing to do with what you make, or how much money you have, but common sense and smart purchases that you will actually use.

It's the same argument as when you buy a car with the "premium" trim but only wanted the leather seat option, not the satellite radio, blind spot, and other crap you wont use. Its not a money issue but use to value issue.

There CAN be a middle ground if the manufacturer decides to no matter what others think is too "peasant" for their mighty Apple. The XR proves that.

I bought the 10.5 refurbished from Apple the day after the keynote for $583 when you include tax. I was planning on buying the 11" Pro before the keynote because I thought it would be $650 and the 10.5 would be reduced $100 or discontinued. Nope. I'll take .5" less and no Face ID for a savings of $217. $800 is laptop territory and I'm never spending that much on a tablet.

 

[dgdosen]

Actually they don't. They describe what they do in general terms that are open to interpretation.


People, at least here in the US, can often buy new Apple products on sale for prices LESS THAN refurbs. THAT makes refurbs a terrible deal. But I know that there are die-hard refurb fans, who even say that they prefer them to new. Rock on!

So - if a refurb is usually a 15(ish)% discount - where are you seeing retailers selling for 15% off? I think you can see that for iPads - but I've never seen that for phones or laptops...

 

[sunking101]

I don’t understand why people are having problems. If you don’t like Apple products, pricing, business model, TOU, what evah, buy something else. Am I missing something here?

Yes you are. Apple have suddenly become very expensive. People could afford the top iPhone every year but now it costs an arm and a leg. iPads are either underspecced and affordable or reasonably specced and expensive. Sure Apple have always seen us coming but they now see us coming from a few more miles away. Their business model has changed and when it seemed they would have to lower their prices to compete with Huawei, OnePlus and others they have instead decided to go more exclusive. I'm not sure it was the correct decision.

 

[dgdosen]

PS -

No matter what people feel about your comments - I think they should take the thoughts of the analyst in the video to heart. Before I watched that video - I kind of thought Apple was raising prices using 'maximizing shareholder value' as their most important guide - even if that means not maximizing the value to some stakeholders - customers.

After seeing that video - I completely agree that Apple, in raising prices and going up market, will make their market smaller. That's bad for people who make apps for a living - but more importantly to Apple and their shareholders - that's going to put the brakes on maximum growth in services revenue from Apple. That's not very smart from any stakeholder's point of view. Maybe they should invite the head of that division into the meetings when they set the prices for their next iPad.