Apple should be arrested for daylight robbery [MERGED]

[noanker]

That Apple has chosen to raise the prices on their latest products isn't a concern to me. In our capitalist society, the consumer has choices. Apple even gives consumers the excellent option of buying from their Refurbished store, of which I am a fan. For me, the refurb option works. I've previously purchased brand-new iPhones right after their release, but found that for my use, it wasn't really a quantum leap over the previous phone.

And that last sentence is key for consumers to remember. Does the product fit your needs? If you buy the latest product simply to validate your perceived social status through the display of the latest pricey item, that pathology speaks for itself. But it fills a need, albeit an expensive one.

Then there's the early adopters who crave the latest simply because it's cutting edge, fast, and a different style. They often don't care about their perceived social status but care more about the increased performance and capabilities the device offers. And for them, the purchase makes sense.

Then there's consumers like me. I've purchased the cars with all the options and the brands that allegedly connote that etherial thing called status. Since I'm more concerned with the value of how the product fits into my daily needs, almost all of those purchases left me feeling like "is that all there is?"

I don't want my cars or devices to evoke a sense of Thoreau's cabin at Walden Pond, but I do want the features that I use and use on occasion to be there. I want quality, reliability and style that's sensible to the way I'll be utilizing it. If the brand has traditionally been expensive but delivers exceptional value, quality and residual value, I'll buy it, no questions asked and will be a repeat customer. And I won't go back to brands that are poorly designed or delivered little value, function and residual value.

For me, Apple offers a diverse line from which to choose, with varied pricing options. They've been well-made and have been exceptionally reliable. For an IT professional like myself, the last thing I want to do when I come home is futz around with something that isn't working properly.

So Apple chose a high price point on their latest products. If consumers are willing to pay and their needs are met, what's the problem with that? You have choices.

 

[rillrill]

Apple can start charging 2 grand for a phone for all I care, but this company has changed from what it once was with this new leadership. If you can’t see that or haven’t been using their products before the iPhone crazy, then you might not see it. Capitalism is capitalism and I and everyone else has a right not buy anything. No entitlement here. I think a lot of these tech manufacturers see the commoditization of these devices and are trying to inflate the prices for a cash grab. But whatever.

 

[ZipZap]

There is a simple solution that I hope people do....stop buying.

If you whine then buy you might just as well keep it to yourself as you are contributing to the problem and not the solution.

 

[sracer]

Apple can start charging 2 grand for a phone for all I care, but this company has changed from what it once was with this new leadership. If you can’t see that or haven’t been using their products before the iPhone crazy, then you might not see it. Capitalism is capitalism and I and everyone else has a right not buy anything. No entitlement here. I think a lot of these tech manufacturers see the commoditization of these devices and are trying to inflate the prices for a cash grab. But whatever.

I generally agree. I think that is why some are having difficulty adjusting. There's a difference between paying a premium for a well-designed, well-made, well-functioning product and a cynical money-grab. Not everyone will see it. It doesn't mean one has to be angry at Apple for doing it, but simply acknowledge the reality of the situation.

I see what Apple is doing, and for the decreasing number of products that offer value and suit my needs, I buy them... otherwise I give them a pass. But there's a psychological element at play where people feel like they are "missing out" by not buying the latest and greatest.

 

[rillrill]

I generally agree. I think that is why some are having difficulty adjusting. There's a difference between paying a premium for a well-designed, well-made, well-functioning product and a cynical money-grab. Not everyone will see it. It doesn't mean one has to be angry at Apple for doing it, but simply acknowledge the reality of the situation.

I see what Apple is doing, and for the decreasing number of products that offer value and suit my needs, I buy them... otherwise I give them a pass. But there's a psychological element at play where people feel like they are "missing out" by not buying the latest and greatest.

Totally. And I'm very much guilty of having that feeling of "missing out." I think a lot of people are in this culture. Apple is very, very good at marketing their products to make some feel like that.

I don't think people are necessarily whining about their prices in this thread, as Apple products have always cost more than most of their competitors. However, even on some prominent tech podcasts like those on Relay.fm or 9to5Mac, it's more of raised eyebrow at Apple's pricing...

 

[Seed101]

Most Apple users are not pros, and this price policy alienates the use of these devices for business purposes.

If a company has 10,000 employees using the iPad Pro for work, then it could be in serious trouble. It would have paid USD 5,990,000 for those iPad Pros in 2016, but it would now have to disburse USD 7,990,000 for the same amount of iPad Pros. This additional USD 2 million could make a difference to the company.

Businesses need predictability. Apple is unpredictable, it wants to surprise people, and charge a premium for the "wow" factor. Businesses do not buy into that because it will eat into their profits. Consumers buy it because they do not care, they are "wowed", they think it does not really make a difference to pay a little bit more for one product, they do not think long term, or just because they are stupid, or a combination of these reasons or others.

Honestly, I do not buy it anymore as well. I am tired of increasingly higher prices, year after year. The iPad Pro was already premium when its price was USD 599. It is not "more premium" now that it costs USD 799, because the components get cheaper as technology advances. I do not want a company testing my limits.

Yep, I'd guess, given the figures that most apple users are not using iPads in a professionally capacity...but then most Apple user's won't be buying the iPad Pro...they will be buying an iPad..at around £3-400 as I mentioned in my post.

Personally the price point hasn't alienated the device for my business based on productivity of the 1st gen I've used. I think your 'company' example is a bit of a straw man tbh..

Most businesses don't consist of 10,000 staff, let alone 10,000 staff kitted out out with iPad Pros...I'd suggest the primary market for this device are small production teams/one man bands who write this off against tax and also individuals who can afford the product. Similar to their 'pro' line of computers.

We'd all rather they charged less for their premium products..but at the moment, considering the price point and product range of their opposition, I'm sticking with them.

This looks a great product IMO.

All the best.

 

[moosington]

You all know Apple sells cheaper iPads right? There’s more Apple devices at all end of the price spectrum than ever. Devices that still is the A9, A10 and A11 are still awesome user experiences and much cheaper.

The new iPads are awesome. They blow away every tablet. You’re getting a mobile soc with laptop performance and literally the best screens on the market, especially with True Tone and all that. It’s going to be expensive.

I look at this differently. If Apple kept their top end prices lower, we probably wouldn’t get as cool devices. A $900 iPad can afford more tech than a $400 iPad. Is it all needed for everyone? No, and that’s why it’s not the only option. The same can be said for every Apple product on the market. Most competitors show this too - there are cheaper laptops or tablets out there with comparable cpu/memory/screen resolution, but you don’t get as much inside.

Threads like this piss me off because people want everything and cheaper. Running a business doesn’t work like that. Pick more things or cheaper price.

I like having cool **** and I’m happy Apple is pushing the boundaries on this. I totally understand how people would be disappointed about not being able to afford the top end stuff, but it’s stupid to think Apple is nefarious in this. It’s the same supply and demand curve every company uses.

 

[Dave-Z]

It’s the same supply and demand curve every company uses.

Maybe to some extent, but this is also Apple just trying to get more money from people, otherwise they wouldn't have increased the cost of the cellular upgrade option for iPad (which was already too high, and is now even higher... retroactively on already released models that received no updates Tuesday).

 

[moosington]

Maybe to some extent, but this is also Apple just trying to get more money from people, otherwise they wouldn't have increased the cost of the cellular upgrade option for iPad (which was already too high, and is now even higher... retroactively on already released models that received no updates Tuesday).

Literally Econ 101 supply and demand. Every company wants to find the sweet spot of maximizing price and purchases.

 

[1144557]

You all know Apple sells cheaper iPads right? There’s more Apple devices at all end of the price spectrum than ever. Devices that still is the A9, A10 and A11 are still awesome user experiences and much cheaper.

The new iPads are awesome. They blow away every tablet. You’re getting a mobile soc with laptop performance and literally the best screens on the market, especially with True Tone and all that. It’s going to be expensive.

I look at this differently. If Apple kept their top end prices lower, we probably wouldn’t get as cool devices. A $900 iPad can afford more tech than a $400 iPad. Is it all needed for everyone? No, and that’s why it’s not the only option. The same can be said for every Apple product on the market. Most competitors show this too - there are cheaper laptops or tablets out there with comparable cpu/memory/screen resolution, but you don’t get as much inside.

Threads like this piss me off because people want everything and cheaper. Running a business doesn’t work like that. Pick more things or cheaper price.

I like having cool **** and I’m happy Apple is pushing the boundaries on this. I totally understand how people would be disappointed about not being able to afford the top end stuff, but it’s stupid to think Apple is nefarious in this. It’s the same supply and demand curve every company uses.

Right but then you're sacrificing not only specs but the "old" form factor with Touch ID. There is nothing wrong with the 10.5 hardware specs, but who wants to get stuck with chunk bezels and Touch ID in 2020?

If they were smart they would do an XR type iPad. 11-12.9" Face ID display with the 10.5 older guts and sell it for $650; get rid of the current 10.5 There is nothing wrong with the A10x and 4gb RAM. There is that soft spot in between $329 and $799 now.

I would buy a 11.5-12" current form factor with Face ID iPad with the old 2017 10.5" guts for $650 in a heartbeat. I dont need the $999 iPad power but dont want the old form factor. They would sell a ton of those to people like me who aren't using them for drawing/Photoshop but to do desk type work on (browse, docs, PDFs) but dont want to be stuck with chunk bezels and Touch ID for 2-3 years.

 

[moosington]

Right but then you're sacrificing not only specs but the "old" form factor with Touch ID. There is nothing wrong with the 10.5 hardware but who wants to get stuck with chunk bezels and Touch ID in 2020?

If they were smart they would do an XR type iPad. 11-12.9" with the 10.5 older guts and sell it for $650; get rid of the current 10.5 There is nothing wrong with the A10x and 4gb RAM. There is that soft spot in between $329 and $799 now.

You can’t have everything at every price price point. The iPad and 10.5” Pro are still awesome and will last for years.

As much as people cry planned obsolescence, Apple seems like they really manage the rate of tech increase to not quickly out pace old devices. iOS 12 was a whole update dedicated to that. They could easily up the OS RAM requirements and open up more to app developers and kill off the 1GB 6 very quickly if they wanted.

 

[1144557]

You can’t have everything at every price price point. The iPad and 10.5” Pro are still awesome and will last for years.

As much as people cry planned obsolescence, Apple seems like they really manage the rate of tech increase to not quickly out pace old devices. iOS 12 was a whole update dedicated to that. They could easily up the OS RAM requirements and open up more to app developers and kill off the 1GB 6 very quickly if they wanted.

Except that the XR proves Apple realizes there is that dead space if the middle of the pack releasing a very appropriate priced device for what it is.

The XR is not a '"budget" device by any means at $750, but not a "buy the highest model or dont buy anything" either while still getting current specs/design.

There can be some middle ground that isn't $800-1000 but still getting modern design. Buying an old chunky bezel Touch ID iPad now, which is still $650 for the 10.5 they didnt even lower the price, to keep 2-3 years make little logical sense.

Its the same thing as the keyboard case, it's $199 now. For what? Yes because they can charge that much or whatever they want. But other than that what does it do different than the old to charge $30 more? It's the same concept, it is Apple's slow creep up in prices. It's gotten to the point you can't even get in the game on a current year device for $1,000 anymore.

 

[CPTmom2wp]

You all know Apple sells cheaper iPads right? There’s more Apple devices at all end of the price spectrum than ever. Devices that still is the A9, A10 and A11 are still awesome user experiences and much cheaper.
The new iPads are awesome. They blow away every tablet. You’re getting a mobile soc with laptop performance and literally the best screens on the market, especially with True Tone and all that. It’s going to be expensive.
I look at this differently. If Apple kept their top end prices lower, we probably wouldn’t get as cool devices. A $900 iPad can afford more tech than a $400 iPad. Is it all needed for everyone? No, and that’s why it’s not the only option. The same can be said for every Apple product on the market. Most competitors show this too - there are cheaper laptops or tablets out there with comparable cpu/memory/screen resolution, but you don’t get as much inside.
Threads like this piss me off because people want everything and cheaper. Running a business doesn’t work like that. Pick more things or cheaper price.
I like having cool **** and I’m happy Apple is pushing the boundaries on this. I totally understand how people would be disappointed about not being able to afford the top end stuff, but it’s stupid to think Apple is nefarious in this. It’s the same supply and demand curve every company uses.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I think that the iPad Pro is reasonably priced given the FaceID, screen quality, and new pencil capabilities. The iPhone X, Xs, Max, etc. is about the same price for many of the same features and only a fraction of the size of the iPad. I typically don't trade iPads but every 2 cycles or less. I currently use the iPad Pro 9.7" and pencil but knew that if the new iPads had FaceID I would have to get one. I think that is an amazing feature on both the X,Xs, and now the iPadPro.

Lastly, Apple products are amazingly resilient and just work and just last. I am still using the first gen iPad in the kitchen for recipes. The fact I don't have to worry about repairs and can repurpose old devices is worth a higher initial price, as well.

 

[noanker]

Threads like this piss me off because people want everything and cheaper. Running a business doesn’t work like that. Pick more things or cheaper price.

You bring up a good point there.

There's a definite danger in consumers wanting everything for cheap has affected our economy, psychology, our communities and the ecosystem. There's a cost to wanting everything cheap and that cost is being paid by the workers in foreign countries who assemble these items American consumers refuse to pay the true cost for. The retail workers who sell these items in the U.S. are also underpaid. American workers miss out on the opportunity to manufacture these goods domestically because the average American consumer refuses to pay the true cost of the item.

Whenever consumers whine about the high cost of an item, the manufacturers respond by cutting their costs and foisting the problem onto another labor pool, a cheaper one. Do you think when you go to an outlet mall that you're getting name brands cheaper? Often not, studies have shown. Some upscale brands manufacture lines specifically targeted for outlet mall buyers. These 'aspirational consumers' feel good that they've acquired what they perceive to be a luxury good at a lower price. And it is often an inferior product when compared to the full-price luxury goods available at that upscale brand's primary stores.

I'd recommend to anyone who wants a more enlightened view of this issue to read two books:

• Thorstein Veblen's Theory of the Leisure Class (he coined the term "conspicuous consumption)
• Ellen Ruppel Shell's Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture - Veblen may be a dry read for most, so if you read anything, READ THIS BOOK!

When I purchased my first desktop computer back in 1987, I had to take out a loan from my credit union. With the desk and peripherals, my computer cost almost $3,000. An iPhone 5 would blow away that old Tandy 1000HX in terms of performance, and yet it was just listed as obsolete the other day by Apple. The price for that computer in today dollars, adjusted for inflation, is staggering. And that would technically be the true cost of a computer today, had consumers gone along with price increases.

The more they became a commodity, the cheaper they became as manufacturers saw the potential in market penetration if the prices were brought down. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. We're slowly seeing the results of not wanting to pay the true cost of an item. Apple's price increase is, as others have noted, an exercise in capitalism to set a price and see if the public will pay it and allow Apple to be as profitable as it has been previously.

But have no doubt about it.....the American consumer, according to many recent studies, is not even able to afford a $400 'emergency' expenditure, this despite the news that the economy is stronger than ever. My guess is there is a significant portion of the population for whom this price increase will exclude them from buying the latest Apple product they previously had been accustomed to. I think if they were to be very honest about their finances and needs vs wants, they'd acknowledge this is true. Hence the complaining....

 

[Dave-Z]

Literally Econ 101 supply and demand. Every company wants to find the sweet spot of maximizing price and purchases.

I do agree with you. But this part upgrade was always way over-priced for the components required and is now even more money. That's not supply/demand, that's penny pinching and it's evident across Apple's product line because they raised the prices just a little bit on everything. Individually it's not much, but since one often buys accessories with their main product purchase those little increases add up to quite a bit.

 

[1144557]

You bring up a good point there.

There's a definite danger in consumers wanting everything for cheap has affected our economy, psychology, our communities and the ecosystem. There's a cost to wanting everything cheap and that cost is being paid by the workers in foreign countries who assemble these items American consumers refuse to pay the true cost for. The retail workers who sell these items in the U.S. are also underpaid. American workers miss out on the opportunity to manufacture these goods domestically because the average American consumer refuses to pay the true cost of the item.

Whenever consumers whine about the high cost of an item, the manufacturers respond by cutting their costs and foisting the problem onto another labor pool, a cheaper one. Do you think when you go to an outlet mall that you're getting name brands cheaper? Often not, studies have shown. Some upscale brands manufacture lines specifically targeted for outlet mall buyers. These 'aspirational consumers' feel good that they've acquired what they perceive to be a luxury good at a lower price. And it is often an inferior product when compared to the full-price luxury goods available at that upscale brand's primary stores.

I'd recommend to anyone who wants a more enlightened view of this issue to read two books:

• Thorstein Veblen's Theory of the Leisure Class (he coined the term "conspicuous consumption)
• Ellen Ruppel Shell's Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture - Veblen may be a dry read for most, so if you read anything, READ THIS BOOK!

When I purchased my first desktop computer back in 1987, I had to take out a loan from my credit union. With the desk and peripherals, my computer cost almost $3,000. An iPhone 5 would blow away that old Tandy 1000HX in terms of performance, and yet it was just listed as obsolete the other day by Apple. The price for that computer in today dollars, adjusted for inflation, is staggering. And that would technically be the true cost of a computer today, had consumers gone along with price increases.

The more they became a commodity, the cheaper they became as manufacturers saw the potential in market penetration if the prices were brought down. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. We're slowly seeing the results of not wanting to pay the true cost of an item. Apple's price increase is, as others have noted, an exercise in capitalism to set a price and see if the public will pay it and allow Apple to be as profitable as it has been previously.

But have no doubt about it.....the American consumer, according to many recent studies, is not even able to afford a $400 'emergency' expenditure, this despite the news that the economy is stronger than ever. My guess is there is a significant portion of the population for whom this price increase will exclude them from buying the latest Apple product they previously had been accustomed to. I think if they were to be very honest about their finances and needs vs wants, they'd acknowledge this is true. Hence the complaining....

How about just a cheaper OPTION that isn't a chunky bezel Touch ID model? Why is it get a small 9.7" non-laminated 2015 display that elementary kids use or an $800 entry price point?

Clearly, there is a market for the middle ground with the newest tech or else the XR would not exist in the iphone line and Apple would just push people to the 7 or 8 line they still sell new as sole lower cost options.

I do agree with you. But this part upgrade was always way over-priced for the components required and is now even more money. That's not supply/demand, that's penny pinching and it's evident across Apple's product line because they raised the prices just a little bit on everything. Individually it's not much, but since one often buys accessories with their main product purchase those little increases add up to quite a bit.

I agree, there is NO WAY it cost $200 to make the 2017 12.9" iPad with smaller bezels and Face ID (credit the Touch ID parts since removed).

Apple didnt charged extra for spec bumps; the Gen 2 12.9" got a new CPU, double the storage (32 to 64gb storage) same 4gb of RAM, better front and back cameras, and the fully laminated display tech with 120hz ProMotion from the first 9.7 Pro all for the same $799 as the Gen 1 12.9"

This 3rd gen has the same internals; same 4gb RAM, same 64gb storage. A CPU bump and better cameras. So Face ID and removing some bezels is really $200 more?

I get capitalism and economics but that's absurd. Its Apple trying to raise its ASP (average selling price) which is apparent across their phone and iPad line; even accessories, they bumped the keyboard case up $30 to $199 which is ridiculous as it was already overpriced at $169 and rather poor quality.

I never understood the Android clan calling Apple people sheep and always thought it was ridiculous shade/exaggeration, but seeing people actually defending this insane price hike across the board lately "because Apple" is scary.

 

[Azathoth123]

Apple make a full range of devices at different price points consistent with their business model. Today you can get a refurb iPhone 8 for $499, and I buy refurb whenever I can, I think that they’re better having seen the short-term failures pass and getting a thorough testing. You can get a gen 1 or gen 2 iPad Pro cheaper and they are still very powerful, I’m writing from my gen 1 12.9” LTE iPad Pro. LTE too costly? Forget it and connect through your phone and you won’t even need the iPad data plan. Still too high? Buy refurb or used.

Want a new top of the line design at 2-3 year old prices? Ain’t gonna happen. But there are lots and lots of other options that at least in the case of iPad Pros, work extremely well.

 

[sracer]

Apple make a full range of devices at different price points consistent with their business model. Today you can get a refurb iPhone 8 for $499, and I buy refurb whenever I can, I think that they’re better having seen the short-term failures pass and getting a thorough testing. You can get a gen 1 or gen 2 iPad Pro cheaper and they are still very powerful, I’m writing from my gen 1 12.9” LTE iPad Pro. LTE too costly? Forget it and connect through your phone and you won’t even need the iPad data plan. Still too high? Buy refurb or used.

Want a new top of the line design at 2-3 year old prices? Ain’t gonna happen. But there are lots and lots of other options that at least in the case of iPad Pros, work extremely well.

Refurbs are a terrible deal. For all of the accolades given to Apple refurbs, no one knows specifically what is done in the refurb process. There are enough reports of Apple refurbs having no visible sign of cleaning/repairing to show that it isn't the "deal" that many make it out to be.

Besides, why would anyone buy a refurb when these same units can be found NEW for less?

 

[1144557]

Want a new top of the line design at 2-3 year old prices? Ain’t gonna happen. But there are lots and lots of other options that at least in the case of iPad Pros, work extremely well.

Bull.

Gen 1 12.9" iPad A9x, 4gb RAM, 32gb storage, 1.2MP front camera, 8MP rear camera, 10,307mA battery $799 in 2015
Gen 2 12.9" iPad A10x, fully laminated 120hz display added, 4gb RAM, 64gb storage, 7MP front camera, 12MP rear camera, 10,875 mA battery $799 in 2017

All those upgraded specs and NO increase in price. As being said, a small increase in price for Face ID and significantly changing the bezels, say $50, ok sure. Make this year's 12.9" $849. A $200 increase from $799 to $999 just because? No way; highway robbery.

Further:

iPhone 6/6 Plus A8, 1gb RAM, 16gb storage $649/749
iPhone 6S/6S Plus A9, 2gb RAM, 16gb storage, better cameras $649/749
iPhone 7/7 Plus A10, 2/3gb RAM, 32gb storage, better cameras $649/769
iPhone 8/8 Plus A11, 2/3gb RAM, 64gb storage, better cameras $699/799

Mobile device prices NEVER increased in the same line more than a few percent year to year despite better specs each year until recently. A few bucks here and there; perfectly acceptable.

Double-digit percent price increase in one year was previously unheard of in Apples mobile device line.

The iPhone X was overpriced when released ($100 overpriced like this year's models) but COMPLETELY new screen tech and unlock/facial tech to Apple, so I understand that part. I get that $799 to $999 price difference there even if I believe it should have been more like $100 more and a $899 phone.

This year's ipad has the SAME LCD screen tech and adding Face ID the company already has been offering in millions of units; there is no radical new tech here justifying a 25% price increase other than the Apple tax.

 

[Azathoth123]

I’ve had great experience with refurbs - all looked new, have all the accessories, eligible for AC if you want it. I have friends that also buy refurb and they’ve had equally good experiences. YMMV.

 

[Pakaku]

if you were going to use this iPad as a computer you would need to get the bigger size, the keyboard case and the Apple Pencil, all of this would cost £1,287, yet I can go buy the new MacBook Air for £1,199

I mean, if I was in the market for a near-Macbook with a completely integrated drawing setup, this wouldn't be half bad. 64GB is okay, but with the USB-C port I could see it opening more potential for external storage. The only thing missing from the equation is OSX, and I'm too tied to desktop-OS features to shift just yet.

 

[Azathoth123]

Bull.

Gen 1 12.9" iPad A9x, 4gb RAM, 32gb storage, 1.2MP front camera, 8MP rear camera, 10,307mA battery $799 in 2015
Gen 2 12.9" iPad A10x, fully laminated 120hz display added, 4gb RAM, 64gb storage, 7MP front camera, 12MP rear camera, 10,875 mA battery $799 in 2017

All those upgraded specs and NO increase in price. As being said, a small increase in price for Face ID and significantly changing the bezels, say $50, ok sure. Make this year's 12.9" $849. A $200 increase from $799 to $999 just because? No way; highway robbery.

Further:

iPhone 6/6 Plus A8, 1gb RAM, 16gb storage $649/749
iPhone 6S/6S Plus A9, 2gb RAM, 16gb storage, better cameras $649/749
iPhone 7/7 Plus A10, 2/3gb RAM, 32gb storage, better cameras $649/769
iPhone 8/8 Plus A11, 2/3gb RAM, 64gb storage, better cameras $699/799

Mobile device prices NEVER increased in the same line more than a few percent year to year despite better specs each year until recently.

25% price increase in one year is unheard of in Apples mobile device line. The iPhone X was overpriced when released ($100 overpriced like this year's models) but COMPLETELY new screen tech and unlock/facial tech to Apple, so I understand that part. I get that $799 to $999 price difference there even if I believe it should have been more like $100 for a $899 phone.

This year's ipad has the SAME LCD screen tech and adding Face ID the company already has been offering in millions of units; there is no radical new tech here justifying a 23-25% price increase other than the Apple tax.

Disagree with the cost of the improvements WRT this year, but I understand and respect your argument.

 

[noanker]

Refurbs are a terrible deal. For all of the accolades given to Apple refurbs, no one knows specifically what is done in the refurb process. There are enough reports of Apple refurbs having no visible sign of cleaning/repairing to show that it isn't the "deal" that many make it out to be.

Besides, why would anyone buy a refurb when these same units can be found NEW for less?

Apple spells out their refurb process in detail on the refurb webpage.

As for them being a terrible deal, that is subjective. There are plenty of people, myself amongst them, who feel differently.

Regarding your claim of "reports of Apple refurbs having no visible sign of cleaning/repairing" where are these reports you mention? Are they confirmed by some independent authority who can validate that to be a true statement? If so, what is the evidence?

 

[Macalicious2011]

Well, yes and no.

Apple has more expensive products now, it is charging a premium. In the preceding years, the difference between an Wi-Fi iPad and a Cellular iPad was USD 130, and now it is USD 150. That alone illustrates that Apple is charging more, regardless of any differences in products.

Apple is a company and it can charge whatever it wants. Well, more or less. Microsoft, Google and Apple are the three only companies that produce operating systems for computers, tablets and smartphones, a multi-billion worldwide market. The three of them are charging more for their products this year then they were last year.

I may be wrong, but they may be crossing a thin line. There is legislation protecting consumers, competitors and the economy in general against abusive acts of monopolists and oligopolists.

I agree that Apple and even Samsung products are getting more expensive.

This is normal when you have reached the point of diminishing returns. Meaningful improvements start becoming exponentially more expensive and less beneficial to 90% of customers. Most user browse, use social media and watch videos which makes an iPad Pro overkill.

What’s great is that Samsung and Apple keep older devices available for purchase. Yes the latest phones have better cameras but there is nothing you can do on an S9 that you can’t on an S8. The iPhone X introduced a new shape but performance wise isn’t not a big leap from the iPhone 7. Safari, gmail, Instagram and YouTube all look and work the same on both devices.

Since 2017 it’s starting to make more sense to buy a year old phone than the latest.

 

[Azathoth123]

I agree that Apple and even Samsung products are getting more expensive.

This is normal when you have reached the point of diminishing returns. Meaningful improvements start becoming exponentially more expensive and less beneficial to 90% of customers. Most user browse, use social media and watch videos which makes an iPad Pro overkill.

What’s great is that Samsung and Apple keep older devices available for purchase. Yes the latest phones have better cameras but there is nothing you can do on an S9 that you can’t on an S8. The iPhone X introduced a new shape but performance wise isn’t not a big leap from the iPhone 7. Safari, gmail, Instagram and YouTube all look and work the same on both devices.

Since 2017 it’s starting to make more sense to buy a year old phone than the latest.

I kind of agree lol.

Apple seems like Chevrolet and Ford WRT to their racing programs in the old days. Chevrolet and Ford (or anyone else for that matter) didn’t race for fun - at least not just for fun - they developed cutting edge technology that was tested on the track and migrated down to the cars we all drive. No mainstream car company anywhere raced for glory alone. Hey, they could forego that and be Lada or Yugo (no disrespect to those busines models).

I believe Apple kind of does the same thing - offers high end tech at a premium, but guess what, in a couple of years the same tech is in mainstream products.

So it isn’t diminishing returns, it’s testing new tech, what works, what customers like, and then it’s folded into future products.