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HSTRIP

macrumors member
May 9, 2007
34
0
the only thing that bothers me about it is that now bootcamp assistant has expired i can't get rid of my windows partition without buying leopard. Which i may not upgrade to for a while yet. I only use windows now and then for games and i might want that 40GB back before i upgrade to leopard.
 

JNB

macrumors 604
It has also been posited (a few months ago) that the Leopard implementation of BC will also incorporate OS management differently as well, somewhere between full reboot and virtualization, wherein you would "sleep" or "hibernate" one OS and switch to the other, still giving full hardware to one OS, while the other would likely be a saved state on the HD. If that were the case, Leopard (for me) would not only a Tiger-killer, but a Parallels-killer as well.

Since I haven't heard a thing about it in quite a while, I suspect that it will remain merely wishful thinking.
 

JoeG4

macrumors 68030
Jan 11, 2002
2,871
540
Fast OS switching was dumped, apparently didn't work well.

Guys, unless you want to have a deleteable windows partition, you can just split your drive into several partitions using disk utility on the OS X disk, and then install windows the same way you installed OS X (insert CD, hold down option, and choose it).
 

Hugh

macrumors 6502a
Feb 9, 2003
840
5
Erie, PA
Beta and OS 10.5

Can someone please explain to me why people are thinking that Boot Camp is free?

Boot Camp is part of 10.5 and they stated that from the start, and not to mention it's beta software. Therefor it's not supported by Apple at this moment. They most likely support Boot Camp after 10.5 gets released but it would be the version that shipped with 10.5.

This is what's going to happen.

a) Partitioning the hard drive
b) Burning the driver disk that setups Windows up for use on a Mac.
c) Starting the Windows install from Boot Camp instead of just booting with your Windows Install Disk.
C) (MAYBE) You won't be able to restore your Mac's Hard drive partition back as one. With out reforming your hard drive and re-installing every thing (Did you back up your hard drive like Apple told you do? :rolleyes: )

This will NOT effect anyone who has Boot Camp already installed. You just won't be able to get Apple Drivers (There are other drivers out there that some people have been able to find.). You WILL still be able to boot in Windows as long as you do it before Boot Camp 1.4 beta is over.


Hugh
 

HSTRIP

macrumors member
May 9, 2007
34
0
I make fairly regular backups with SuperDuper! just to be safe and i understand that bootcamp is not free and that it was clearly stated in the license agreement that it was beta and for a limited time only. Thats fair enough. But to be forced to reformat the drive and reinstall everything when there was a simple and pain free solution with the bootcamp assistant, i think, is being deliberately awkward. I could understand Apple restricting from any further installs via bootcamp but to force people to go to such efforts to remove it is unnecessary IMO.
 

dvince2

macrumors 6502
Mar 6, 2007
283
1
Canada
Undo?

Up until today, I was using 1.1 with no trouble. However, when you try to open the bootcamp assistant in OSX it simply said the licence had run out then closed. So I downloaded 1.4

Question though... after the beta has run out and you can no longer use the assistant, is there a way do destroy the partition and have a hardrive with just OSX on it? or am I stuck with windows until I buy leopard/reinstall 10.4?
 

HSTRIP

macrumors member
May 9, 2007
34
0
once leopard is released bootcamp 1.4's license will expire, so you can't use the bootcamp assistant to remove the partition. You can either purchase leopard, or (if you've got a full backup) repartition your HD which will erase all data, and then reinstall via backup.
 

daveschroeder

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2003
315
13
Madison, WI
once leopard is released bootcamp 1.4's license will expire, so you can't use the bootcamp assistant to remove the partition. You can either purchase leopard, or (if you've got a full backup) repartition your HD which will erase all data, and then reinstall via backup.

You do not have to buy Leopard or reformat your drive.

1. You could simply set the system date back when the Boot Camp Assistant stops working.

2. You could use diskutil at the commandline to live-repartition the disk, which has been supported since Mac OS X 10.4.6.
 

daveschroeder

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2003
315
13
Madison, WI
I make fairly regular backups with SuperDuper! just to be safe and i understand that bootcamp is not free and that it was clearly stated in the license agreement that it was beta and for a limited time only. Thats fair enough. But to be forced to reformat the drive and reinstall everything when there was a simple and pain free solution with the bootcamp assistant, i think, is being deliberately awkward. I could understand Apple restricting from any further installs via bootcamp but to force people to go to such efforts to remove it is unnecessary IMO.

To be clear to anyone reading this, even though I'm repeating myself, you ARE NOT "forced" to do anything you say. When the Assistant from the 1.4 beta finally stops working (it WILL NOT be right when Leopard ships; that's when your "license" to use it technically expires), and you haven't yet upgraded to Leopard, you can still simply set the date back to use the Assistant, or use diskutil via Terminal to live-repartition the disk.
 

HSTRIP

macrumors member
May 9, 2007
34
0
do you know that setting the system date back will work, have you tried it?

I don't know how to use CLI (most people probably don't) is Apple suggesting we should? Sorry but i still think its deliberately awkward.
 

Westside guy

macrumors 603
Oct 15, 2003
6,411
4,281
The soggy side of the Pacific NW
While it's not outside the realm of possibility, knowing how boot loaders work it's hard to imagine Apple disabling your ability to boot into Windows if you've installed it prior to the Boot Camp beta's license expiring.

In any case there is work being done to update the traditional Linux boot loaders like Grub so they'll work with EFI, which is the way of the future for most all PCs - not just Macs. If you've ever used Grub, you know it's quite user-friendly once installed.

But I'd bet those people predicting that Apple won't be making updated device drivers readily available to non-Leopard users are correct.

I stopped using Boot Camp, though, because VMware does the job for me and is much more convenient. For gamers, though, I realize virtualization isn't good enough (yet) performance-wise.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
20,987
4,562
New Zealand
C) (MAYBE) You won't be able to restore your Mac's Hard drive partition back as one. With out reforming your hard drive and re-installing every thing

Correct. The beta expires on 1/1/08 and the Assistant won't even open after that date. However, you could probably still do it from the command line.

From a strictly legal perspective, does this mean that once Leopard is released, we're then all running unlicensed copies of Boot Camp while we wait for our Leopard boxes to arrive?
 

swagi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 6, 2007
906
123
You are absolutely right in your thinking. Since it's obvious you are like a few others, you have no intention of using your Mac as a real Mac but rather use it as a pseudo Windows machine then get the Dell outta here. :D

Hi dan,

sorry if it's just that I didn't sleep well this night or that I have to go on an education trip for the next days, but I took your comment rather personal. Normally I would just ignore it, but being a long time reader of Macrumors and following the deterioration of this forum, I feel like I should clear some things up with you.

First of all you don't know **** about my computing situation and my business decisions. Therefore you should not dare to comment on my intentions. But let me enlighten you. Here are the short points:
- Mac user for approx. 8 yrs. (so practically been on the OS 9 side and started with a dual bootable OS X machine with 10.0
- having built up a veterinary practice in the last year
- had to solve some computing decisions being media integration (video material -> chose FCS), direct digital X-Ray (chose Osirix) and having an accounting system (no Mac software available -> hence Parallels, but very slow with main database, hence database server is BootCamped)

When I bought the four iMacs for use in my practice, BootCamp was officially released 1 month for a short time. By that time, there was no arguing, that BootCamp was to be introduced into Leopard. Guess why the version number is BootCamp 2.0! Also there were many resellers, that were advertising their "Ready for Windows"-Macs packages.

So, to bring my point to you, I will educate you on some things:
- the update from 10.0 to 10.1 was FREE (oh...those were the days), it only cost 20 bucks to receive the CD media (btw...the days were only few have broadband connection)
- the first version updates of iLife programs (i.e. iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes) were FREE (though still a lot more functional, than you may think)
- iChat AV was introduced with Panther. There was also a Public Beta Program for that one. People, who chose to skip the Panther update, could buy iChat AV for Jaguar (Mac OS X.2) for 29 bucks
- Apple only slowly integrated known features from OS 9 to OS X, and since Jaguar charged you for every update (10.2 -> spring-loaded fodlers; 10.3 -> Labels)

All I want is an affordable License for BootCamp support without buying Leopard, as I don't need it. And as a small enterprise I don't qualify for family license (otherwise I'd just buy that, and legally install Leopard on all 4 iMacs).

Here's to hoping you don't take the answer too personal.

Cheers,
swagi
 

MacBiscuit

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
62
0
First of all you don't know **** about my computing situation and my business decisions. Therefore you should not dare to comment on my intentions. But let me enlighten you.

Tee Hee

Good for you. It does get tedious reading post after post from people who jump on anyone who even dare mention that they were once in a room with a Windows PC.

I think it would make sense for Apple to release bootcamp for a small fee. After all, one of the main selling points of the Intel Macs was the ability to be all things to all people - most of us cant entirely live without Windows for one thing or another. Apple have heavily marketed this fact and released the beta to win sales to the platform. To then force a paid upgrade to a whole new operating system may be legally fair, but I think it's a PR own goal...
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,566
Sorry but I just don't see a point in buying a Macintosh just to run Windows only as you do.

Why not? If someone wants to run Windows and nothing else, they would look for the hardware they like best to run it on. And it is hard to beat a 24" iMac, or an eight core MacPro, or a MacBook, or a MacMini.
 

daveschroeder

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2003
315
13
Madison, WI
do you know that setting the system date back will work, have you tried it?

Yes. I don't even need to try it to know that it will work, since that's literally the only way it CAN work, given that the Assistant doesn't phone home and the system clock is the only way possible it can know when to expire. (And no, Apple doesn't do things like permanently disable software when the expiration date comes...it is purely a system clock issue, and the clock can always just be set back.) And someone in this thread already confirmed that it indeed works exactly that way.

I don't know how to use CLI (most people probably don't) is Apple suggesting we should?

I didn't say Apple suggested this. I was simply saying that the functionality for live-repartitioning a disk is a supported part of the OS and has been since Mac OS X 10.4.6. And if you don't want to do that, set your system clock back.

Sorry but i still think its deliberately awkward.

Yeah, taking the few seconds to set your date back temporarily if you really need to remove the Boot Camp partition after January 2008 if you STILL haven't gotten Leopard is really an awkward hardship... :-/

All that said, I would not be surprised in the least if Apple releases a utility specifically for Tiger Boot Camp users to do nothing more than remove the Boot Camp partition. Apple doesn't really overlook things like this.
 

Orng

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2007
386
0
Have you SEEN Windows?

My wife and I were talking about Vista yesterday (it's an IT nightmare for her) and we thought that what microsoft SHOULD have done when they developed Vista, is build it from scratch on a Unix kernel (why not, they've had five years) given it a Windows aesthetic, and allowed users to run their old windows stuff in virtualization. Yeah, I know, exactly like the introduction of OS X 10.0 with Classic mode. They'd get criticised for copying, sure, but they probably wouldn't be hemorrhaging OS market share to Apple right now. Because people would stick with the system they "know" even if it was a whole new system. They only abandon the system they "know" when it lets them down, or better alternatives are becoming impossible to ignore.

I'm glad that Apple is earning a bigger piece of the pie, I'm just theorizing from a business perspective. That's what I would've done if I were Microsoft. And if they HAD done that, it might be appealing to my budget right now. As it stands, I'm scrimping for a new Mac. A decent Unix based Windows... I might have bought one already. (yes, i know I could just go build a Unix box, Ubuntu with Beryl, yadda yadda, I'm talking about the average users)
 

sprime1

macrumors member
Aug 30, 2007
36
0
Sure, I use Windows XP primarily on my MBP. Why? Well, first of all, the computer itself, to me is flawless, sexy, and not cheaply made (like a Dell, HP, etc.) The quality of Apple products are unbeatable. I wanted to go with a product I know would last me a long long time, for the price I paid. Second, on top of quality, the software I use. I am an architect, and most of my programs I use are Windows based programs. Sure, I use photoshop, but it's easy for me to stay on Windows side to do my work, rather then saving the files i need to an external HD, then switching to Mac side, run photoshop, then wait, oops, i forgot something, so i switch back to Windows and use autocad to get what i missed, save it again, switch to Mac OS, etc.

When I do WORK, i'm on Windows, but if i'm looking to just chat, browse the internet, or listen to music, i'll be on Mac OS. But I primarily use my computer for work, or gaming, so I stay on Windows.
 

JudasConstant

macrumors newbie
Jan 21, 2007
11
0
If we read between the lines...

Judging from apples last iphone press relase, I take it this one means my computer will explode if I try to use the beta after the new OS comes out. :)
 

ktlx

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2002
313
0
My wife and I were talking about Vista yesterday (it's an IT nightmare for her) and we thought that what microsoft SHOULD have done when they developed Vista, is build it from scratch on a Unix kernel (why not, they've had five years)...
I've seen others propose this in the past and it really represents a misunderstanding of the security problems with Microsoft's NT family of operating systems. Vulnerabilities in the kernel itself are rare and really no more frequent than in other kernels.

If every process under Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, etc. ran with uid=0 and every directory and file under /etc, /usr and /var were given 4777 permissions and almost all applications could execute arbitrary /bin/sh, perl and Python scripts silently behind the user's back, you'd have the same security mess that Microsoft faces.
 
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