Apple Support: Boot Camp Beta expires as soon as Leopard's released.

[Orng]

If every process under Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, etc. ran with uid=0 and every directory and file under /etc, /usr and /var were given 4777 permissions and almost all applications could execute arbitrary /bin/sh, perl and Python scripts silently behind the user's back, you'd have the same security mess that Microsoft faces.

Uhhhhhhh.... yeah, what he said.


EDIT: I'm not suggesting it would be more secure, just that Windows has the advantage of user familiarity and Unix systems enjoy a vague public perception that they are somehow better/more secure than Windows, although more or less unattainable for, say, My Mom. The unholy alliance of the Windows brand with a Unix Kernel will either negate the existence of the universe, or it will create an environment where people ("My Mom" people, not "us" people) are excited to buy Windows because they think they are getting a super-awesome 21st century OS that is comparable to OSX, rather than how they seem to feel about Windows "Lipstick-on-a-pig" Vista.

It's all about marketing and perspective, your /sqrl and /whatsit are powerless next to My Mom's perception of her OS choices.

 

[Buschmaster]

We don't even know that. My guess is that it will continue to function as it always has, it's just that the license will prohibit its continued use.

What are they going to say? "We want our money back!"

Apple has given us software to use for free on the current operating system that isn't a feature of the current operating system.

Would you guys be mad if they didn't sell you just the new preview or just the new dock? No.

It's good enough we've had the time to use it we have, and think about how many new macs it has probably sold.

 

[jdechko]

Sure, I use Windows XP primarily on my MBP. Why? Well, first of all, the computer itself, to me is flawless, sexy, and not cheaply made (like a Dell, HP, etc.) The quality of Apple products are unbeatable. I wanted to go with a product I know would last me a long long time, for the price I paid. Second, on top of quality, the software I use. I am an architect, and most of my programs I use are Windows based programs. Sure, I use photoshop, but it's easy for me to stay on Windows side to do my work, rather then saving the files i need to an external HD, then switching to Mac side, run photoshop, then wait, oops, i forgot something, so i switch back to Windows and use autocad to get what i missed, save it again, switch to Mac OS, etc.

When I do WORK, i'm on Windows, but if i'm looking to just chat, browse the internet, or listen to music, i'll be on Mac OS. But I primarily use my computer for work, or gaming, so I stay on Windows.

Out of curiosity (as I'm in the same boat - CAD Drafter wanting to switch) did you try using AutoCAD in either Parallels or VMWare? Do you do a lot of 3D work which precluded you from using virtualization or did you find the performance of virtualization to be inadequate. What version of AutoCAD are you running?

From what I've heard, 2D AutoCAD is acceptable through virtualization, but I realize that any 3D work (which is rare for me) would need to be done natively. Just wondering what your setup is and what your experiences were.

Thanks.

 

[swagi]

What are they going to say? "We want our money back!"

Apple has given us software to use for free on the current operating system that isn't a feature of the current operating system.

Would you guys be mad if they didn't sell you just the new preview or just the new dock? No.

It's good enough we've had the time to use it we have, and think about how many new macs it has probably sold.

Well, actually many people like me would like Apple to sell a BootCamp license seperate to Leopard for say 30 bucks. I guess that would be a fair price.

Given that BootCamp 2.0 will rely on some Leopard only technology, they should simply advance the current BootCamp to 1.5 and sell it as standalone App (like QuickTime Pro) and continue support for it.

Some of us simply don't need Leopard features on some machines while they run it once in a while. But maybe we could have a need for a fully supported (and I don't really care if it's crippled compared to 2.0) BootCamp.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S.: Given those two nasty blue vertical lines on my BootCamped iMac this may also be a non-issue for me, as it will be upgraded to a new one rather sooner than later.

P.P.S.: No, I don't want anything else than an iMac in my workspace. Unfortunately they killed white, as it was the perfect color in a medical environment.

 

[Consultant]

No, I don't want anything else than an iMac in my workspace. Unfortunately they killed white, as it was the perfect color in a medical environment.

You can get the white iMac still. Go to store.apple.com and look for "special deals" on the bottom right side. Different models come and go. You can also buy it from Apple reseller. Many have some white iMac in stock still.

 

[HSTRIP]

Yes. I don't even need to try it to know that it will work, since that's literally the only way it CAN work, given that the Assistant doesn't phone home and the system clock is the only way possible it can know when to expire. (And no, Apple doesn't do things like permanently disable software when the expiration date comes...it is purely a system clock issue, and the clock can always just be set back.) And someone in this thread already confirmed that it indeed works exactly that way.



I didn't say Apple suggested this. I was simply saying that the functionality for live-repartitioning a disk is a supported part of the OS and has been since Mac OS X 10.4.6. And if you don't want to do that, set your system clock back.



Yeah, taking the few seconds to set your date back temporarily if you really need to remove the Boot Camp partition after January 2008 if you STILL haven't gotten Leopard is really an awkward hardship... :-/

All that said, I would not be surprised in the least if Apple releases a utility specifically for Tiger Boot Camp users to do nothing more than remove the Boot Camp partition. Apple doesn't really overlook things like this.

No i don't think taking the few seconds to reset the clock is a hardship. I personally thought it wouldn't work, i didn't realize that someone had tried it and it did. Sorry. I've had trialware in the past that i wanted to use a while after the expiration date and have tried resetting the clock to get it to work, it didn't. I just thought this might be what Apple would have done.

If they had, as far as I could see, that would then leave the option of doing it in terminal, which as I said would be to technical for the average computer user, I think. Which is why i felt it was a bit awkward. Never-mind, if setting the clock back works thats fine.

I suppose the other point i could make is that if Apple had made people aware of the exact expiration date, which it seems they have as another poster has mentioned it, then the onus would be on the user to remove the partition if they wanted before that date. So I shouldn't moan. Again I didn't realize they had made the expiration date known.

However, I don't see why they would go to the effort of releasing a separate app to just let people remove the partition. Surely it would be easier to just restrict the ability to burn the driver disk in the bootcamp assistant and let the partitioning tool carry on working so people could remove the Windows partition?

 

[TBi]

Given that BootCamp 2.0 will rely on some Leopard only technology, they should simply advance the current BootCamp to 1.5 and sell it as standalone App (like QuickTime Pro) and continue support for it.

What leopard only technology does boot camp 2 use? And how does this affect a standalone install of windows?

..

These are trick questions of course because as everyone knows bootcamp is just a nice GUI for a command line application which is built into OSX, and it also makes a driver cd for windows.

Well i know the driver cd can't use any special leopard technology because this wouldn't work in windows.

The GUI though, well they could use core image and make a program which does not actually need all this fancy stuff use it. Although i don't see why they would do this. It would just be a waste of time and energy.

Lastly they could upgrade the program which resizes the hard drive, but there isn't anything really new in leopard in this respect that would make it too "advanced" for tiger.

Well, actually many people like me would like Apple to sell a BootCamp license seperate to Leopard for say 30 bucks. I guess that would be a fair price.

Given that BootCamp 2.0 will rely on some Leopard only technology, they should simply advance the current BootCamp to 1.5 and sell it as standalone App (like QuickTime Pro) and continue support for it.

Some of us simply don't need Leopard features on some machines while they run it once in a while. But maybe we could have a need for a fully supported (and I don't really care if it's crippled compared to 2.0) BootCamp.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S.: Given those two nasty blue vertical lines on my BootCamped iMac this may also be a non-issue for me, as it will be upgraded to a new one rather sooner than later.

P.P.S.: No, I don't want anything else than an iMac in my workspace. Unfortunately they killed white, as it was the perfect color in a medical environment.

If they had, as far as I could see, that would then leave the option of doing it in terminal, which as I said would be to technical for the average computer user, I think. Which is why i felt it was a bit awkward. Never-mind, if setting the clock back works thats fine.

Someone can just as easily make a simple GUI that calls this command line program for you. Even an automator workflow thing could do this. Enter a few numbers and hey presto, you have a new partition. Click a different button and the windows partition disapears!

I suppose the other point i could make is that if Apple had made people aware of the exact expiration date, which it seems they have as another poster has mentioned it, then the onus would be on the user to remove the partition if they wanted before that date. So I shouldn't moan. Again I didn't realize they had made the expiration date known.

Everyone knew it was a beta... so... i don't get this "expiration date" problem...

 

[Sunnzy]

Some people I know of do buy a Mac just to solely run Windows, they use it as a PC... what is going to happen to those people? A lot of them even removed OS X and use all Disk space for Windows too.

 

[JiN]

Yep, I don't understand Apple stance on this. They should reward the Tiger beta users with a release version of bootcamp that just isn't supported anymore. Instead they make veiled threats that "Oh that was just a beta and not a Tiger feature to begin with."

They purposely shrink their user base with each OS release. The new Core APIs and XCode are other examples. Microsoft makes their tools and APIs mostly backward compatible so why doesn't Apple at least make an attempt to do the same making easier on 3rd party developers.

------

This is not true. In fact users of MS Visual Studio 2003 and 2005 cannot work on a project together! I use Parallels to load up VS and all of our developers had to switch to the latest VS at the same time because once you convert a project you can't go back.

As for the Core API and XCode changes. I welcome them. I don't think Apple should spend time retro-fitting it for older OS X.

Finally there are lots of features for Vista and is not available for XP and I don't mean the BS Microsoft is pulling with the Games for Vista Only just to push the platform. I mean functions that would take longer to develop or even hampered by the need to support multiple OS Versions.

 

[cliffjumper68]

When does Boot Camp Beta expire?


Here's hoping Apple allows Tiger users to simply purchase Boot Camp 2.0. There's no mention of any such upgrade, but that just means we'll have to play the waiting game. People have already speculated that Apple will do this, a la iChat AV for Jaguar. Heh, if Apple didn't let Tiger users continue to boot their Macs in alternate OS's, there might be a bigger uprising of angry people than iPhone 1.1.1 produced!

People should be careful as Apple might brick their Mac's in similar fashion to the iPhones. Makes me nervous, I wouldn't update tiger for a while after leopard launches just to be safe. Apple has shown that they do not mind "permanently disabling" your device if they feel you are outside of the EULA. Bite me once shame on you, Bite me twice shame on me.

 

[JiN]

What leopard only technology does boot camp 2 use? And how does this affect a standalone install of windows?

The one item that was leopard only when Boot Camp was announced but now seems to have disappeared of the Apple site is the ability to put Leopard to sleep and boot Windows and then go back and forth that way. It would mean a bit more HD space for the Windows and Mac Hiberation files and a longer switch time but a performance boost over Parallels and Fusion.

 

[JiN]

People should be careful as Apple might brick their Mac's in similar fashion to the iPhones. Makes me nervous, I wouldn't update tiger for a while after leopard launches just to be safe. Apple has shown that they do not mind "permanently disabling" your device if they feel you are outside of the EULA. Bite me once shame on you, Bite me twice shame on me.

You are an idiot! You are talking about two different environments. An Open Computing platform vs. a closed smartphone platform.

 

[sprime1]

Out of curiosity (as I'm in the same boat - CAD Drafter wanting to switch) did you try using AutoCAD in either Parallels or VMWare? Do you do a lot of 3D work which precluded you from using virtualization or did you find the performance of virtualization to be inadequate. What version of AutoCAD are you running?

From what I've heard, 2D AutoCAD is acceptable through virtualization, but I realize that any 3D work (which is rare for me) would need to be done natively. Just wondering what your setup is and what your experiences were.

Thanks.

Yeah. I do work in 3dsMAX and Architectural Desktop. I've been told rendering and what not is extremely bad, or doesn't work at all, through virtualization. But I've heard newer versions of Parallels supports 3d or whatever.

Same with gaming... I used to play EverQuest when i first got my computer, couldn't run it with virtualization.

Anyone out there do rendering with Windows based programs using Virtualization software?

 

[Unseelie23]

We do know that. I have Boot Camp 1.1.2 installed on my MacBook. My Windows partition still works fine. The Boot Camp Assistant, however, says that the beta is expired, so I can't print the docs, partition the machine for Boot Camp, or make driver CDs.

No biggie, I'm downloading beta 1.4 now.

We don't even know that. My guess is that it will continue to function as it always has, it's just that the license will prohibit its continued use.

 

[sanford]

When does Boot Camp Beta expire?


Here's hoping Apple allows Tiger users to simply purchase Boot Camp 2.0. There's no mention of any such upgrade, but that just means we'll have to play the waiting game. People have already speculated that Apple will do this, a la iChat AV for Jaguar. Heh, if Apple didn't let Tiger users continue to boot their Macs in alternate OS's, there might be a bigger uprising of angry people than iPhone 1.1.1 produced!

It's always been declared it stopped working in September, with the end of Tiger's life cycle. They never promised you could continue dual boot; in fact hey stated the opposite. Almost all beta software expires, that is it locks, when the final product ships. Then of course they had to push that with Leopard's delays, apparently with a non-expiring Boot Camp beta. I'm immediately upgrading our Intel Macs to Leopard, anyway. But still, after the iPhone thing, all the concern about Apple breaking things and the "new" Apple being so dastardly, it looks like here they remind you that your *license* to use the software expires, but they're not going to break your configuration, freeze your Windows use, if you don't upgrade. Just like with iLife and OS X they ask you to buy a 5-install family license for multiple Macs belonging to distinct individuals, but they don't enforce that with Byzantine codes and networked copy protection. You're on your honor. Meet the new Apple, same as the old Apple: iPhone is unique in that it is much governed by obligations to partners, something Apple rarely seeks or establishes.

 

[Kugo]

Wages of Sin

Those who broke ranks by wanting to run Windows on their Macs are being punished. Boot Camp was just a trick by Apple to see how loyal their users are. Sadly not many were loyal. Thus begins the cleansing.

 

[72930]

Those who broke ranks by wanting to run Windows on their Macs are being punished. Boot Camp was just a trick by Apple to see how loyal their users are. Sadly not many were loyal. Thus begins the cleansing.

Boot Camp has probably switched more to the Mac than Leopard will...

 

[Kugo]

Never attribute to malice, that which may be more adequately explained by incompetence, ignorance, or neglect. - Hanlon's Razor

Why do people take perfectly acceptable and universally accepted sayings and re-craft them (and ruin them) to take their own attribution?

 

[Orng]

Why do people take perfectly acceptable and universally accepted sayings and re-craft them (and ruin them) to take their own attribution?

I don't know, why do people take a perfectly harmless sig line that isn't bothering anybody, and make an issue out of it?

Why do people need to haughtily resist harmless variations in sayings, colloquialisms and folk wisdom? Don't they WANT language and knowledge to evolve? Are these the same people who get upset that people in my region tell that joke differently from people down around their region?

And why do some people say "some people" when they really mean "you idiots?"

Good questions all, and probably more productive than saying "why don't some people blow it out their hoo-ha." Which would probably result in some people saying "why do some people have to say hoo-ha instead of flow-hole?"

Anyways, I try not to take these things personally; after all, why attribute to malice anything that can be more easily explained by ignorance? Or whichever of the 17 variations of that formula you prefer.

 

[swagi]

Sorry for feeding the troll

Those who broke ranks by wanting to run Windows on their Macs are being punished. Boot Camp was just a trick by Apple to see how loyal their users are. Sadly not many were loyal. Thus begins the cleansing.

As you spoke those flaming words of wisdom I realized my mistake. I realized, I had to put my main iMac to the treatment, that it deserved.

First of all I digged a hole in the garden, buried it, so just the monitor head looked out and stoned it. Then I built up a heap of failure from all those Windows boxes, I found (stocking it up with old OS X boxes) and burned the iMac on it.

God bless it, on its way to Purgatory!

And as the ashes settled to dust, I felt the warm glowing of our mighty one's RDF, that startet surrounding me again.

 

[sosumi1981]

I don't know, why do people take a perfectly harmless sig line that isn't bothering anybody, and make an issue out of it?

Why do people need to haughtily resist harmless variations in sayings, colloquialisms and folk wisdom? Don't they WANT language and knowledge to evolve? Are these the same people who get upset that people in my region tell that joke differently from people down around their region?

And why do some people say "some people" when they really mean "you idiots?"

Good questions all, and probably more productive than saying "why don't some people blow it out their hoo-ha." Which would probably result in some people saying "why do some people have to say hoo-ha instead of flow-hole?"

Anyways, I try not to take these things personally; after all, why attribute to malice anything that can be more easily explained by ignorance? Or whichever of the 17 variations of that formula you prefer.

Now that was funny!!! However Orng, I think you were attributing to malice that which could have been adequetly explained by stupidity!

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

You know... Am I the only one who doesn't read these license agreements? I mean who really cares.

That's the thing about license agreements, they are binding documents whether or not you care to read them.

The only reason anyone would deem this a negative is because they've grown spoiled and like their new free application, and don't want to have to pay for an entire OS to use the final draft of it. Perhaps this should be a lesson to those that think that these license agreements are meaningless.

 

[72930]

That's the thing about license agreements, they are binding documents whether or not you care to read them.

The only reason anyone would deem this a negative is because they've grown spoiled and like their new free application, and don't want to have to pay for an entire OS to use the final draft of it. Perhaps this should be a lesson to those that think that these license agreements are meaningless.

Maybe this will spur on advancement for OnMac, the project without which Boot Camp would likely never have existed...

 

[Orng]

Now that was funny!!! However Orng, I think you were attributing to malice that which could have been adequetly explained by stupidity!

Drat! Hoisted by my own petard!

 

[kingtj]

License agreements....

Well, technically, shrink-wrap and "click through" license agreements are legally a questionable, gray-area, all in all.

(EG. If you have to simply click an "OK" or "I agree" button to move past one, what if you just let one of your kids do it for you? They're not of legal age to be held to a binding contract, right? And since clicking through it once, during installation or the initial run makes it go away - it never happens to ask YOU to agree to any terms after that.)

By the same token, I imagine there have been cases where a service technician installed some software on a Mac for the owner, and clicked through one of these agreements to do so. Some folks claim they were simply agreeing to the license "on your behalf" - but that seems like a weak argument, unless said tech actually called you to verify YOU were ok with those terms first (or had some kind of written clause you signed in advance, stating he/she could legally act on your behalf to sign for such agreements).

That's the thing about license agreements, they are binding documents whether or not you care to read them.

The only reason anyone would deem this a negative is because they've grown spoiled and like their new free application, and don't want to have to pay for an entire OS to use the final draft of it. Perhaps this should be a lesson to those that think that these license agreements are meaningless.