Apple to Adopt RCS Messaging Standard for Better Interoperability With Android Devices

[TimFL1]

I am neither scared, uncertain, or doubtful but sure. Whatever floats your goat. They might roll out their own hub, there's no info on that. All we have is that they're implementing RCS UP and not Jibe late next year. Which, right now, only means an additional protocol like SMS and MMS. Which if that's all they do, will absolutely require carrier side support per GMSA and RCS standards. I don't have to know how it works, I only need to know what the people who control it says on how it works. They say it has to be implemented on your device and your carrier has to implement it. One or the other and it doesn't work. Just like SMS and MMS.

Wrong. I am sorry for my previous words but you are wrong. I assume you don‘t understand how all of this works or tie’s together, let me help you:

your misunderstanding seems to stem from you thinking UP is the counterpart to Jibe (Jibe is a service provided by Google). UP is nothing more than a PDF file that outlines how *one* (I highlight this for a reason, explanation follows) has to implement RCS so that *others* can interoperate with your hub.

Let‘s get an easy example going:
RCS requires me to say A and you understanding A, so that we can both do B. That‘s essentially what the UP file tells someone who‘s interested in providing a RCS hub for someone (or their own client).

The UP file being the guideline can be implemented by anyone, even you and me, if we have the resources and reach that Google or Apple does. Reach as in: I can pour resources into creating an UP compliant RCS service, that‘s capable of interconnecting with other hubs, but I need them to take me seriously and actually interconnect.

I‘m not sure if I‘m allowed to link this here, but this is the latest version of UP: https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/RCC.71-v2.4.pdf
As you can see, the only time carriers are mentioned is when it comes to billing for things.

Furthermore, the official website outlines the different roles and keyplayers (many being device manufacturers or third parties, unrelated to carriers): https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/rcs/the-rcs-ecosystem/

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

 

[cics]

Amazing news for EU customers. I can finally delete whatsapp and enjoy rich messaging with everyone without giving my data to Mr.Zuck

 

[scorpio vega]

Typical Apple way to bring Android on board while giving them a degraded experience.

If you want an apple experience then get an apple product lmao. Like this logic makes no sense.

I am test driving google fi (why idk as I am very anti google as I think they are a terribly shady company but I’m also traveling for the holidays).

fi obviously works best with pixel phones and they quite explicitly state that and want you to use pixel or at least some form of android device.

iPhones are currently in beta support. You have to do a few extra hurdles to activate your iPhone but in the end I can still use the service. 5g and all.

Should I blame google for making the experience better with android a product Fi was designed for? No.

If I truly wanted a 100 percent compatibility, I’d buy an android which i obviously would never use again in my lifetime.

 

[OneBar]

Wrong. I am sorry for my previous words but you are wrong. I assume you don‘t understand how all of this works or tie’s together, let me help you:

your misunderstanding seems to stem from you thinking UP is the counterpart to Jibe (Jibe is a service provided by Google). UP is nothing more than a PDF file that outlines how *one* (I highlight this for a reason, explanation follows) has to implement RCS so that *others* can interoperate with your hub.

Let‘s get an easy example going:
RCS requires me to say A and you understanding A, so that we can both do B. That‘s essentially what the UP file tells someone who‘s interested in providing a RCS hub for someone (or their own client).

The UP file being the guideline can be implemented by anyone, even you and me, if we have the resources and reach that Google or Apple does. Reach as in: I can pour resources into creating an UP compliant RCS service, that‘s capable of interconnecting with other hubs, but I need them to take me seriously and actually interconnect.

I‘m not sure if I‘m allowed to link this here, but this is the latest version of UP: https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/RCC.71-v2.4.pdf
As you can see, the only time carriers are mentioned is when it comes to billing for things.

Furthermore, the official website outlines the different roles and keyplayers (many being device manufacturers or third parties, unrelated to carriers): https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/rcs/the-rcs-ecosystem/

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

There was no confusion. You didn't say anything different from what I said. UP is the vanilla build of RCS; JIBE is Google's build on RCS. Just as you said. In order to use JIBE, you must use Google products. You cannot use JIBE just because your phone utilizes RCS. Your phone will communicate with someone using JIBE, theoretically, we'll see how that pans out, but they are not the same.

Why would your carrier be billing you for anything unless they had to implement some kind of infrastructure on their end to utilize RCS? Almost like I've been saying this the entire time....

 

[OneBar]

I don't understand this. Jibe is just a server that serves the RCS UP for Google and the carriers. I don't understand the device supporting "Jibe" since that's just a server for the UP. If Apple builds RCS in they will serve it or the carriers will serve it probably using the Jibe server. No matter who serves it it'll communicate with Google phones because they use the UP. Just because Google adds a layer of encryption on top doesn't mean it still won't receive and send just basic RCS messages.

Apple has never been in the business of introducing things that don't work. Heck even Ping worked, but nobody used it. If Apple is going to integrate RCS messaging into Apple Messages it's going to work.

UP is the vanilla build of RCS that everyone can utilize and communicate across like SMS. JIBE is Google's hub that allows communication through their servers utilizing their build of RCS which is NOT UP. It is not required to use their servers to use RCS, just as you don't have to go through anyone's servers in particular to use SMS. It's a communications protocol that your carrier implements and provides infrastructure for. I will give 80% likelihood that Apple rolls out something similar to JIBE and that they will not be using Google's server or version of RCS. It'll probably still be iMess since that's already OTT like JIBE but it'll be fleshed out a little more with RCS implementation.

 

[DakotaGuy]

UP is the vanilla build of RCS that everyone can utilize and communicate across like SMS. JIBE is Google's hub that allows communication through their servers utilizing their build of RCS which is NOT UP. It is not required to use their servers to use RCS, just as you don't have to go through anyone's servers in particular to use SMS. It's a communications protocol that your carrier implements and provides infrastructure for. I will give 80% likelihood that Apple rolls out something similar to JIBE and that they will not be using Google's server or version of RCS. It'll probably still be iMess since that's already OTT like JIBE but it'll be fleshed out a little more with RCS implementation.

Yes, but Google's implementation will still communicate with the UP because it's based on it. Just because Google to Google Messages might have more features available with each other basic RCS with the features the UP mandates will still work fine.

Heck I've had it happen on my Android phone several times. The biggest telltale sign I was getting an RCS message from someone outside the Google Messages ecosystem is it was not encrypted. The larger file size and typing indicators still worked.

You seem to have this idea that Google's RCS is incompatible with the UP, but it is compatible. It just has a few additional things.

 

[ki77erb]

If you want an apple experience then get an apple product lmao. Like this logic makes no sense.

I am test driving google fi (why idk as I am very anti google as I think they are a terribly shady company but I’m also traveling for the holidays).

fi obviously works best with pixel phones and they quite explicitly state that and want you to use pixel or at least some form of android device.

iPhones are currently in beta support. You have to do a few extra hurdles to activate your iPhone but in the end I can still use the service. 5g and all.

Should I blame google for making the experience better with android a product Fi was designed for? No.

If I truly wanted a 100 percent compatibility, I’d buy an android which i obviously would never use again in my lifetime.

People who like Android don't want "an apple experience". If we did, like you said we'd just buy an iPhone. What we do want, and what many iPhone users also want, is the ability to send a video or a photo to someone and know that it's not going to come over in crappy MMS potato quality. And not everyone wants to use a bunch of 3rd party apps either. Since apple is not willing to open up iMessage (which is fine, I don't blame them) there needs to be a new open standard that makes it possible. I am not interested in using Whatsapp, Snapchat, Telegram or whatever. I want a single app (Google Messages) that I can communicate with others and not worry about who has an Android phone and who has an iPhone. For most of us... It's really just that simple. A lot of people are making this into a big complicated issue.

It's not.

 

[grkm3]

Read the fine print. "RCS Universal Profile" not the Google RCS thing. To early to tell how this will work and what form it will take.

The Google thing is what all the major carriers are using. The GSM standard is like 7 years old and has no end to end encryption

 

[TimFL1]

There was no confusion. You didn't say anything different from what I said. UP is the vanilla build of RCS; JIBE is Google's build on RCS. Just as you said. In order to use JIBE, you must use Google products. You cannot use JIBE just because your phone utilizes RCS. Your phone will communicate with someone using JIBE, theoretically, we'll see how that pans out, but they are not the same.

Why would your carrier be billing you for anything unless they had to implement some kind of infrastructure on their end to utilize RCS? Almost like I've been saying this the entire time....

Jibe is compatible with UP, because every RCS server has to implement the bare minimum (which is UP). Anything added on top, like Google gimmick stuff and e2ee, is optional and works for those who are on the same platform (Jibe).

 

[scorpio vega]

And not everyone wants to use a bunch of 3rd party apps either.

Literally more than half the world does. And already uses at least one 3rd party apps.

lol don’t speak for most iOS users since you don’t even use iOS. You (android) and the few iOS users are a very vocal minority who happens to benefit from
The EU being invovled. So kudos I guess.

No matter how many times you make this argument it still doesn’t change that the only issue is android users feeling left out.

 

[ki77erb]

Literally more than half the world does. And already uses at least one 3rd party apps.

lol don’t speak for most iOS users since you don’t even use iOS. You (android) and the few iOS users are a very vocal minority who happens to benefit from
The EU being invovled. So kudos I guess.

No matter how many times you make this argument it still doesn’t change that the only issue is android users feeling left out.

I don't speak for most iOS users. I don't even speak for most Android users. I said "many" and that is just a fact.

"No matter how many times you make this argument it still doesn’t change that the only issue is android users feeling left out."

You're doing what you just accused me of doing... speaking for everyone. I don't feel left out. The Android users I know don't feel left out. This isn't about your fantasy that everyone wants to to be like you. This is about a modern communication standard. You're over complicating it and putting your irrational emotions into it. Why?

 

[scorpio vega]

I don't speak for most iOS users. I don't even speak for most Android users. I said "many" and that is just a fact.

"No matter how many times you make this argument it still doesn’t change that the only issue is android users feeling left out."

You're doing what you just accused me of doing... speaking for everyone. I don't feel left out. The Android users I know don't feel left out. This isn't about your fantasy that everyone wants to to be like you. This is about a modern communication standard. You're over complicating it and putting your irrational emotions into it. Why?

Read your post again? You literally use the word most.

When did I say I want everyone to be like me? That’s a narrative you’ve created yourself.

 

[ki77erb]

Read your post again? You literally use the word most.

When did I say I want everyone to be like me? That’s a narrative you’ve created yourself.

Some of you guys in this thread are just jumping through ridiculous hoops to find things to complain about when it comes to this announcement by Apple. If you don't need RCS, then this has zero effect on you. No need to complain. If it bothers you this much and you think they're making a mistake to the detriment of their users, then write a complaint to Apple or stop using an iPhone. I don't know what else to tell you. It's crystal clear that a lot of the people in this thread have no idea what they're talking about but have no problem spreading FUD by making demonstrably false claims, assertions and assumptions. Maybe Apple made a mistake making this announcement without more details or maybe the number of people actually upset about this is smaller than it appears on Macrumors.

EDIT: After looking on other sites, definitely feels like there is a lot more complaining on here. Seems the majority in the tech world have a more positive outlook.

 

[OneBar]

Jibe is compatible with UP, because every RCS server has to implement the bare minimum (which is UP). Anything added on top, like Google gimmick stuff and e2ee, is optional and works for those who are on the same platform (Jibe).

Which I've said probably a dozen times now. JIBE is not UP. JIBE will talk to UP (with possible caveats and shenanigans potentially from Apple). Apple is implementing UP, not JIBE, and unless they do their own hub, which they could turn iMess into likely, it's just a protocol like SMS and will require carrier support and implementation to work.

 

[OneBar]

Yes, but Google's implementation will still communicate with the UP because it's based on it. Just because Google to Google Messages might have more features available with each other basic RCS with the features the UP mandates will still work fine.

Heck I've had it happen on my Android phone several times. The biggest telltale sign I was getting an RCS message from someone outside the Google Messages ecosystem is it was not encrypted. The larger file size and typing indicators still worked.

You seem to have this idea that Google's RCS is incompatible with the UP, but it is compatible. It just has a few additional things.

Theoretically, yes, as I've said. I imagine there might be some Apple/Google shenanigans that don't make it work as smoothly and I'm sure the green bubbles aren't leaving. I'm sure they will still flip green when you switch over to RCS/SMS from iMess, even if iMess is utilizing RCS.

 

[breenmask]

yuck. no thank you.

rcs îs stupid.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Theoretically, yes, as I've said. I imagine there might be some Apple/Google shenanigans that don't make it work as smoothly and I'm sure the green bubbles aren't leaving. I'm sure they will still flip green when you switch over to RCS/SMS from iMess, even if iMess is utilizing RCS.

We will just have to see how it all works in the end, but Apple's not putting the effort into something that doesn't work.

Google already pays Apple $18-20 billion a year to be the default search engine and they do work with each other. Apple also works with the GSMA and carriers on many things. These companies and organizations do communicate and work with each other.

Think about all the years Apple has slammed Microsoft in the marketing department, but have remained good working partners on things like Office, Outlook and other projects.

None of us know how this us all going to work. Apple states they will use the universal profile which is a good thing. That means it'll work. How it works or who serves who is anyone's guess at this point. It is a fact however that it will be a huge improvement over the extremely limited and archaic SMS/ MMS standard. Unfortunately for everyone that'll still be the fallback standard because you don't need data to make it work. I've been able to send SMS when I could even get a call through.

 

[robbietop]

Which one of those is a cross-platform, default (pre-installed) app?

Google can't just hijack someone else's app, and Microsoft has been making Edge the default browser for half a decade and Chrome is still downloaded more.

So, have fun with your stupid victory with RCS, which is already antiquated compared to the competition

 

[robbietop]

RCS is not a messaging app. Why are so many people having such a hard time understanding these concepts. You have access to the same information I do!

I was in Telecom, I know what RCS is. We intentionally thwarted attempts to adopt the standard as it is a bare bones upgrade of SMS/MMS and doesn't have any of the benefits of these other messaging apps. What we did do was team up with Microsoft to install Teams as the default messaging standard in our VoIP solution app. So, when you go text message someone or receive one, it was through MS Teams whitelisted as our product.

RCS is a decade behind Messenger, WhatsApp, etc and is costly to implement to boot. So, why in the hell would a telecom provider want to implement a backwards solution with features that are touted as ground breaks for MMS/SMS, but are baseline expected in other messaging apps.

Sending Read Receipts is a groundbreaking feature for RCS. It's a core feature of iMessage, Messenger, and WhatsApp for over a decade now. Seriously, do you know anything about RCS other than it's an upgrade of SMS/MMS? Why the hell would I want to implement basic features of something I can already provide via colo with Teams, etc? I can plug Teams or Webex into Broadsoft and start off the ground running without having to even implement RCS other than eventually some ******** government regulation we'll honor and then ignore the spirit of it.

The government will force RCS because they thing it will increase competition in the messaging and multimedia sharing landscape. Really all it does is make TC (TeleCom)/MSP (Multi-Service Provider) implement RCS and then basically ignore it and use Teams or other industry standard app integrations in a colo. Why the hell would I want basic features of RCS, waiting ten years for the international forum to argue via RFCs until finally they catch up to where we are now? I could just ask Facebook to integrate WhatsApp into my voice and messaging solutions TODAY....with features RCS is PROMISING tomorrow and WhatsApp has TODAY.

So, RCS will be adopted by Apple, the government takes that as evidence of competition in the market, and then iMessage remains closed source, only accessible with Apple's whims.

 

[OneBar]

We will just have to see how it all works in the end, but Apple's not putting the effort into something that doesn't work.

Google already pays Apple $18-20 billion a year to be the default search engine and they do work with each other. Apple also works with the GSMA and carriers on many things. These companies and organizations do communicate and work with each other.

Think about all the years Apple has slammed Microsoft in the marketing department, but have remained good working partners on things like Office, Outlook and other projects.

None of us know how this us all going to work. Apple states they will use the universal profile which is a good thing. That means it'll work. How it works or who serves who is anyone's guess at this point. It is a fact however that it will be a huge improvement over the extremely limited and archaic SMS/ MMS standard. Unfortunately for everyone that'll still be the fallback standard because you don't need data to make it work. I've been able to send SMS when I could even get a call through.

I agree with all of that. Especially RCS not replacing SMS/MMS. I expect an update to SMS, though, that allows for longer texts or better service. I can't imagine they won't do something with it to make it better after 20 years.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I was in Telecom, I know what RCS is. We intentionally thwarted attempts to adopt the standard as it is a bare bones upgrade of SMS/MMS and doesn't have any of the benefits of these other messaging apps. What we did do was team up with Microsoft to install Teams as the default messaging standard in our VoIP solution app. So, when you go text message someone or receive one, it was through MS Teams whitelisted as our product.

ROFLMAO I would love to know what you mean by 'I was in Telecom' considering you are talking about your VoIP solution app, and take MS Teams as the exemplar product for distribution. 🤣🤣

RCS is a decade behind Messenger, WhatsApp, etc and is costly to implement to boot. So, why in the hell would a telecom provider want to implement a backwards solution with features that are touted as ground breaks for MMS/SMS, but are baseline expected in other messaging apps.

You really aren't comparing like for like. This has been explained many a time now.

Sending Read Receipts is a groundbreaking feature for RCS. It's a core feature of iMessage, Messenger, and WhatsApp for over a decade now. Seriously, do you know anything about RCS other than it's an upgrade of SMS/MMS? Why the hell would I want to implement basic features of something I can already provide via colo with Teams, etc? I can plug Teams or Webex into Broadsoft and start off the ground running without having to even implement RCS other than eventually some ******** government regulation we'll honor and then ignore the spirit of it.

The government will force RCS because they thing it will increase competition in the messaging and multimedia sharing landscape. Really all it does is make TC (TeleCom)/MSP (Multi-Service Provider) implement RCS and then basically ignore it and use Teams or other industry standard app integrations in a colo.

Still waiting what standard that tis what you keep calling industry standard. I'm assuming you base standard on the ye-who-shout-loudest, or has more users if you prefer, approach. That isn't really what standards are or are about, that is ignoring the science/technology.

Why the hell would I want basic features of RCS, waiting ten years for the international forum to argue via RFCs until finally they catch up to where we are now? I could just ask Facebook to integrate WhatsApp into my voice and messaging solutions TODAY....with features RCS is PROMISING tomorrow and WhatsApp has TODAY.

But what about those who use Signal? or Telegram? or Google Chat? or Microsoft Teams? or Slack? or SMS, or ..., or...

And that is precisely why actual standards are great

So, RCS will be adopted by Apple, the government takes that as evidence of competition in the market, and then iMessage remains closed source, only accessible with Apple's whims.

iMessage yes, Messages the app allows access to it all...

 

[watrobkasmaczna]

Great, maybe it is the time to ditch whatsup!

Android phone / Mac fanatic.

 

[robbietop]

ROFLMAO I would love to know what you mean by 'I was in Telecom' considering you are talking about your VoIP solution app, and take MS Teams as the exemplar product for distribution. 🤣🤣

You really aren't comparing like for like. This has been explained many a time now.

Still waiting what standard that tis what you keep calling industry standard. I'm assuming you base standard on the ye-who-shout-loudest, or has more users if you prefer, approach. That isn't really what standards are or are about, that is ignoring the science/technology.

But what about those who use Signal? or Telegram? or Google Chat? or Microsoft Teams? or Slack? or SMS, or ..., or...

And that is precisely why actual standards are great


iMessage yes, Messages the app allows access to it all...

I was a Voice Engineer. RCS was part of SMS/MMS progression, which is part of the entirety of the telco switch. We don't just give businesses the ability to make phone calls anymore, class 5 soft switches have evolved to messaging and video calling as well. We also provided MMS messaging using Teams or Webex integration, all of this running through the same Broadsoft implementation. RCS does nothing that WhatsApp doesn't already do today....and is used by almost half of all smart phone owners. I have WhatsApp and I message most of my contacts through it. iMessage is mostly family, except the one guy who refused and just has to have an Android, his fault, his bed to sleep in. Google cannot force people into giving up proprietary hard worked and developed applications just because they're in a hole and desperately throwing government regulatory power as leverage. Google is a $2 trillion company, develop your own god damned messaging service, maybe resurrect Hangouts...?

What RCS is at its core is Google didn't develop their own messaging app and is left completely behind and is now using the bitchfest known as international standards committees to lean on Apple to give up access to the iMessage kingdom so it can effectively neuter the strongest driving force behind Android's MASSIVE slide with Gen Z in adoption. iPhone is desired by 80% of all teenagers today. Multiple studies have confirmed this. Google doesn't have a messaging app, so they are using passive aggressive feminine finger wagging to make Apple look like some bully on the block when in fact, Apple spent billions of dollars just like Facebook to develop an internal messaging service to provide their customers.

Google did not. They canceled hangouts and then Duo flopped like a limp dick. Now, they're far behind everyone else and the best they could latch onto was a half assed and now antiquated replacement for SMS/MMS. RCS is a ****ing joke....there's a reason it has languished in the market just like Was-Mart's dumb attempt the Merchant Customer Exchange (MCX), which was then wiped out by ApplePay.

As for the other apps, we use those. I barely text anymore, 80-90% of my daily communication is in Messenger or WhatsApp, with iMessage for like 5 people out of the 100 or so I communicate with everyday. Nobody texts anymore, which means RCS will be implemented and nobody uses texting....they use a messaging app...which RCS is not....and by the time they build the RFC next decade after ten years of philosophizing and jokes about avian carriers, Apple and Facebook will have moved on to something bigger....and then we'll goi through this again with RCS 2.0.

And for my business, we use MS Teams, something RCS doesn't even address....it's an SMS/MMS REPLACEMENT, an evolution, not an innovation and nobody will actually use it other than Google so they can make their users feel good about buying an inferior phone and having a green bubble.

 

[gregmancuso]

The Google thing is what all the major carriers are using. The GSM standard is like 7 years old and has no end to end encryption

I know. That's the point. Apple stated they will support UP as adopted by GSMA. They will not implement anything with Google's extensions. They've said they'll work to include E2EE into the adopted standard, but it is not there now. We'll have to see what exactly Apple implements.

edit: typo

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I was a Voice Engineer. RCS was part of SMS/MMS progression, which is part of the entirety of the telco switch. We don't just give businesses the ability to make phone calls anymore, class 5 soft switches have evolved to messaging and video calling as well. We also provided MMS messaging using Teams or Webex integration, all of this running through the same Broadsoft implementation. RCS does nothing that WhatsApp doesn't already do today....and is used by almost half of all smart phone owners. I have WhatsApp and I message most of my contacts through it. iMessage is mostly family, except the one guy who refused and just has to have an Android, his fault, his bed to sleep in. Google cannot force people into giving up proprietary hard worked and developed applications just because they're in a hole and desperately throwing government regulatory power as leverage. Google is a $2 trillion company, develop your own god damned messaging service, maybe resurrect Hangouts...?

What RCS is at its core is Google didn't develop their own messaging app and is left completely behind and is now using the bitchfest known as international standards committees to lean on Apple to give up access to the iMessage kingdom so it can effectively neuter the strongest driving force behind Android's MASSIVE slide with Gen Z in adoption. iPhone is desired by 80% of all teenagers today. Multiple studies have confirmed this. Google doesn't have a messaging app, so they are using passive aggressive feminine finger wagging to make Apple look like some bully on the block when in fact, Apple spent billions of dollars just like Facebook to develop an internal messaging service to provide their customers.

Google did not. They canceled hangouts and then Duo flopped like a limp dick. Now, they're far behind everyone else and the best they could latch onto was a half assed and now antiquated replacement for SMS/MMS. RCS is a ****ing joke....there's a reason it has languished in the market just like Was-Mart's dumb attempt the Merchant Customer Exchange (MCX), which was then wiped out by ApplePay.

As for the other apps, we use those. I barely text anymore, 80-90% of my daily communication is in Messenger or WhatsApp, with iMessage for like 5 people out of the 100 or so I communicate with everyday. Nobody texts anymore, which means RCS will be implemented and nobody uses texting....they use a messaging app...which RCS is not....and by the time they build the RFC next decade after ten years of philosophizing and jokes about avian carriers, Apple and Facebook will have moved on to something bigger....and then we'll goi through this again with RCS 2.0.

And for my business, we use MS Teams, something RCS doesn't even address....it's an SMS/MMS REPLACEMENT, an evolution, not an innovation and nobody will actually use it other than Google so they can make their users feel good about buying an inferior phone and having a green bubble.

Why are you so angry?