Ya that would be very interesting. Maybe some sort of backdoor into attacking Kinect?
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Apple TV 3 Rumor
- Thread starter jcschlic
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Ya that would be very interesting. Maybe some sort of backdoor into attacking Kinect?
Nah. Many people have the box offset from the screen so facetime would be awkward.
Apple might include a camera if they produced a full-fledged Apple Television set. But not a set-top box.
As far as gesture support ala Kinect, I don't think so Apple is going to do this either. Apple seems to be going the voice-control route instead with Siri. So a microphone in the ATV (or in the rumored Television set) is more likely.
Frankly, while Kinect has tons of applications for games and other hands-free uses (computer control by surgeons who have to remain sterile during surgery, for example), I don't see that arm-waving gesture technology as being very useful for most forms of passive entertainment. It's way easier to either press a button on a remote with your thumb or to say "I want to watch seinfeld" then it is to move your arms in big waving gestures. That would get tiring and old really fast.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
But 802.11ac is only an in-home solution. It doesn't solve the fundamental problem with iCloud and that is: to link with it we have to pay gatekeepers like Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, Time Warner, etc- all of which are in a mode of pinching down tiers and capping bandwidth.
Or, let's put this another way. An 802.11ac version of AEBS or Time Capsule will be great for moving data wirelessly around our home even faster than before. However, if the data is actually stored in North Carolina or Oregon it has to flow from there to our 801.11ac router first. How does it get to our wireless access point? Through pipes owned by Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, etc. And they want to increasingly pinch the data flow.
Relative to this
TV, those players don't want an TV solution that kills off their cable revenue streams... ESPECIALLY if Apple's solution must flow through their very own pipes. So what are they doing? They're increasingly pinching the flow and capping the amount of data that we can get. Should someone like Apple really start eating into their cable revenue, they'll just make their broadband costs go so high that it won't make sense to choose the Apple option over their cable option. And what will we do? We can't exactly switch providers because- if we even have another option for broadband- they're in the cable business too and will be employing similar tactics to protect their cable revenues. 3G/4G? Their tiers are already too small for 1 (ONE) 1080p video file transfer. So the answer is not in the wireless spectrum from existing wireless Internet gatekeepers.
802.11ac is only relevant when the data is already in our homes- such as on our own hard drives. It has next to nothing to do with enhancing the iCloud relationship because it still depends on pipes belonging to the Comcasts, AT&T, Verizons, etc. to get the data to the router that uses it. Once the data is there (which is in our homes), 802.11ac offers faster wifi which will be great for moving streams of 1080p video around our homes.
I see a nice opportunity for them to do something like OTG usb and charge us for the cable!
My friend I am on your side, I agreed pretty much word by word with you, however, a Billion $$ company like Apple is no thinking about exploiting "exiting" markets, they are thinking about "creating" new markets to dominate, they are creating this device to push providers (or gatekeepers) as you metioned either to join the "dark" side or to just get out of the way. They did it with the music industry, no matter how they try to fight, they can't get away from iTunes, they are trying to do the same with content providers and ISPs. I don't agreed with Apple vision of things (that;s why I jailbreak every deice i can, to do as i please and not how apple tells me), however they have the approach to "know better than the user" and while they keep selling 100s of devices per minute, they will keep doing it.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I don't see us fighting here. I would point out that what they did with the music industry happened because there was no middlemen. That revolution was fought and won because we could rip our own CDs for those early iPods. We didn't have to stream anything because there was no iTunes store at first. And even when the store came along, the file sizes were relatively tiny and the broadband gatekeepers were not in music subscription businesses.
This is very different. In general, if you have broadband you probably get it from someone who is also in the business of delivering video via a subscription. In general the choices of broadband are singular or maybe a duopoly where your alternative is probably also in the video subscription business. THEY do not want to lose that money flow to Apple when Apple's solution- whatever it is- will depend on flowing through their pipes. It just won't be allowed to happen if Apple's solution must depend on their pipes.
Any kind of video distribution innovation will require a way to flow the video from where it's stored to us users. This won't be solved with anTV or an Apple Television. The missing rumor is one that addresses the issue of bypassing these middlemen (removing the ability for the middlemen to increase the tolls). While they are in the middle, they can tighten the screws almost as they see fit. Apple really can't do anything about that. And 802.11ac doesn't help with that problem either.
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Right, probably a proprietary connector (patent pending to miniize the cheap knockoffs that work just fine) to be sold for nearly the cost of theTV itself.
This is very different. In general, if you have broadband you probably get it from someone who is also in the business of delivering video via a subscription. In general the choices of broadband are singular or maybe a duopoly where your alternative is probably also in the video subscription business. THEY do not want to lose that money flow to Apple when Apple's solution- whatever it is- will depend on flowing through their pipes. It just won't be allowed to happen if Apple's solution must depend on their pipes.
Any kind of video distribution innovation will require a way to flow the video from where it's stored to us users. This won't be solved with an
TV or an Apple Television. The missing rumor is one that addresses the issue of bypassing these middlemen (removing the ability for the middlemen to increase the tolls). While they are in the middle, they can tighten the screws almost as they see fit. Apple really can't do anything about that. And 802.11ac doesn't help with that problem either.----------
Right, probably a proprietary connector (patent pending to miniize the cheap knockoffs that work just fine) to be sold for nearly the cost of the
TV itself.
again i Agreed, the way i see it they want to do exactly the same again, and they are pushing those middlemen to get out of the way or to become content provider, yielding the same result, direct distribution. (actually, making Apple the middlemen, but that's a whole another issue)
This I didn't know. So any Movies or TV shows I have bought from the itunes store, and have saved locally on my PC, I can still stream to ATV straight from the cloud?
I want Hulu out-o-the-box; and a full iTunes client to connect to a NAS directly.
I have a ATV2 now but honestly not really using it.
I have a ATV2 now but honestly not really using it.
I can't wait to see the new Apple TV--I'm obsessed with mine and had just bought a 2nd one a couple days ago before I found out another is on the horizon. We'll see what happens Wednesday--my guess is the one I just bought is going back.
This DOES mean I have to re-rip all my blu-rays in 1080p now instead of 720... Oh well, it's a labor of love I guess.
This DOES mean I have to re-rip all my blu-rays in 1080p now instead of 720... Oh well, it's a labor of love I guess.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Then, we need to see a rumor that could make that work. It will have to be a big one like Apple is buying DISH network to bypass the middlemen (and even there, it would only be a U.S. solution). The point being that Apple can't push those middlemen out of the way unless they can replace them with some other distribution solution: how to get the movie I want to stream via iCloud from a hard drive in North Carolina to the
TV next to my HDTV. Right now (for me), that file must be flowed through pipes owned by Comcast. At any time, Comcast- fearing that Apple is going to get too much of their cable TV revenues- might decide to up the broadband rate and/or instill some tight tiers "for heavy bandwidth users" (like those us who would want to stream lots of video from iCloud) to make Apple's solution a lot less appealing. What do I do if that happens? I'm lucky in that I have a broadband alternative here: AT&T. However, AT&T is also in the TV subscription business and they would likely feel the pressure of Apple's solution too. So, their solution would probably be the same as Comcasts- they'll raise their broadband rates too.
If both of my broadband options raise their rates, they can break my willingness to embrace Apple's solution over getting television from Comcast or AT&T. THAT's the problem.
Apple can't push them out of the way unless Apple buys them... or buys someone else that can be the middleman between iCloud servers and
TVs in our home. I think the most likely solution is to buy up SATT providers for nationwide (middleman) distribution replacement. But if this is a global play, they'd have to do that on a global scale (buying DISH network would not be enough).With no such rumors flying, either Apples "push them out of the way" strategy is a best kept secret or they have no plan to push them out of the way. And as long as the likes of Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, etc are in the middle, they'll exploit their position as Internet gatekeepers. I see no innovative way around that reality.
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Agree with you on Kinect. I don't want to wave around to change channels. Of course, I don't want to talk to my remote either. I'm pretty happy with my buttons or an ipad interface for viewing channel line ups, scheduling recordings and changing channels.
Apple is "supposedly" working on movies with studios. TV shows however, yes. There's a 'Purchased' section on the ATV now.
I think the biggest issue with the original apple tv was the included HD...it's hard to get internal storage large enough to support a typical movie/music/picture library without raid/external chassis. Not to mention a single spinning drive is NOT where I feel comfortable storing my entire digital life.
Apple TV3 should allow you to attach external drives or interact internally with network storage otherwise i'm happy with hanging a real storage solution off a mac mini through itunes.
The Apple TV hard drive wasn't the only place that stored the data, you realise? Your iTunes Library was synced to it in the same way as it syncs with your iPhone. And the original Apple TV let you stream things too, it wasn't like you were limited to the hard drive space.
I used to sync unwatched items, so they were on the hard drive ready to watch, without having to have my Mac running, and free from any uncertain WiFi dropouts.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Right, again that's why I think the best option would be for Apple to normalize that USB port:
Gen 1 could be jailbroken to work as described above. People could attach BIG storage and sync everything to it for on-demand media when all computers were turned off or even away from home (like when one person takes the laptop out with them, and it's the computer to which theTV needs the link).
I wish Apple would stop leaving software features like that to the jailbreak solutions and instead just build them in. This particular one would be so easy and so useful for those wanting gen-1 like local storage of various sizes. Hopefully, we get that feature in this new model.
- those wanting local storage can attach whatever amount they need (and turn that computer off)
- those not wanting local storage don't have it forced upon them
Gen 1 could be jailbroken to work as described above. People could attach BIG storage and sync everything to it for on-demand media when all computers were turned off or even away from home (like when one person takes the laptop out with them, and it's the computer to which the
TV needs the link). I wish Apple would stop leaving software features like that to the jailbreak solutions and instead just build them in. This particular one would be so easy and so useful for those wanting gen-1 like local storage of various sizes. Hopefully, we get that feature in this new model.
Right, again that's why I think the best option would be for Apple to normalize that USB port:
Everybody wins. Apple could not possibly pick a right size for local storage. And that USB port is already there (just not normalized).
- those wanting local storage can attach whatever amount they need (and turn that computer off)
- those not wanting local storage don't have it forced upon them
Gen 1 could be jailbroken to work as described above. People could attach BIG storage and sync everything to it for on-demand media when all computers were turned off or even away from home (like when one person takes the laptop out with them, and it's the computer to which the
I wish Apple would stop leaving software features like that to the jailbreak solutions and instead just build them in. This particular one would be so easy and so useful for those wanting gen-1 like local storage of various sizes. Hopefully, we get that feature in this new model.
You mentioned jailbreaking Gen 1 for external storage. Does jailbreaking Gen 2 not open it up for similar usage? If that's the case, it's concerning. I don't have an Apple TV, but if I get one I hope I will at least be able to jailbreak it and have the option of using an external drive if wireless streaming doesn't work very well.
My rampant speculation...
Lots of nice ideas here, but I think Apple will want to stick to the <$100 price point, which rules out most hardware improvements beyond processor/graphics, which is pretty much guaranteed to make 1080p a reality; I'd say this is a bare minimum. I'd say bluetooth is a slim possibility, and maybe an increase in onboard memory.
On its own this will seem a little underwhelming. That being said, this is an iPad event so they don't really need to blow us away. However, should they decide to do something really special, my money's on the software/content side. To me, that means expanding content via additional TV service provision (hulu in the US, iplayer in the UK, etc.) and/or an app store, the latter probably in a very limited form at first. Maybe also expect some announcement with regards iPad/iPhone/iPod controlled gaming.
I don't see Siri control as being a high priority; Most people I speak to who are interested in Apple TV just aren't that bothered about voice control, and think that it's a bit gimmicky in the living room unless fully integrated into the rest of the entertainment system (TV, audio, etc.).
Lots of nice ideas here, but I think Apple will want to stick to the <$100 price point, which rules out most hardware improvements beyond processor/graphics, which is pretty much guaranteed to make 1080p a reality; I'd say this is a bare minimum. I'd say bluetooth is a slim possibility, and maybe an increase in onboard memory.
On its own this will seem a little underwhelming. That being said, this is an iPad event so they don't really need to blow us away. However, should they decide to do something really special, my money's on the software/content side. To me, that means expanding content via additional TV service provision (hulu in the US, iplayer in the UK, etc.) and/or an app store, the latter probably in a very limited form at first. Maybe also expect some announcement with regards iPad/iPhone/iPod controlled gaming.
I don't see Siri control as being a high priority; Most people I speak to who are interested in Apple TV just aren't that bothered about voice control, and think that it's a bit gimmicky in the living room unless fully integrated into the rest of the entertainment system (TV, audio, etc.).
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I don't think you can do that with Gen 2 (but I am not sure). It worked with Gen 1 because the software was basically set up to suport local storage (the jailbreak just took it from relatively small to a couple of TBs). I don't think that's there with Gen 2.
Damn, that's terrible. That's the type of thing that could prevent me from buying it.
Rumors had been around for a couple of years already, Apple had said it many times they will not buy content provides, they want partners, that is why the rumors of having landed "good" deals with several TV content providers to be serve to the iTV (and the ATV if you ask me).
My point is that YES, apple can and will push those away offering the content directly, Forcing those middle men to get into the content and distribution instead of monopolizing it, I am not saying that ISP itself will go away, but Comcast as an example own a lot of the content it provide.
Rumors of this had been coming from experts for a couple of years now. this is not my theory, this is what the rumor mill and experts had been saying for a while.
If you have an external hard drive that can connect to a network somehow, NAS or some type of network storage it will do the trick. It just needs to be connected to your router somehow.
I use my WHS.
Yeah I can see why they dropped it from the product, the reasons you mentioned were trivial at best.
Trivial? I see my Mac having to be running so I can watch things on my Apple TV as a huge inconvenience. Especially because I store my media on an external hard drive, so my laptop has to be at my desk.
While one day, we'll not need to worry about hard drive storage because everything will come from iCloud, we're not there yet. And I think when Apple took the hard drive out of the Apple TV, it was premature.
People have hacked their original Apple TV's to have a few TB's of attached storage, something I've been planning for a while. I'd love to have every movie and TV show stored locally on the Apple TV for others to access when my laptop isn't in the apartment.