Apple TV has a better GPU than the Macbook

[snowmoon]

A go7300 is too expensive to put in the MacBook, yet it's in the tv?

We're talking about a chip that costs a couple of bucks here buddy. Nobody's asking for MBP performance in the MB. Asking for a low-end GPU isn't unreasonable.

Last I checked the 950 was a "low-end" GPU. Dell uses them in hundreds of laptop and desktop models.

 

[snowmoon]

i think if anything, the black macbook should have a dedicated graphics chip. something that would actually justify the $150 price difference asides from paint...
doesnt have to be anything special... just something.

Like the upgraded hard drive perhaps?

 

[Eidorian]

Last I checked the 950 was a "low-end" GPU. Dell uses them in hundreds of laptop and desktop models.

Well it's getting to be the X3000 on the Intel desktops and the GeForce 6150 for AMD. The laptops have the GMA950 for now on Intel and the X1150 for AMD.

My complaint is that integrated solutions aren't terrible per se for the low end. It's just that give us an integrated solution with dedicated 3D hardware components instead of software rendering. Oh wait...

 

[Planner Dude]

That being said, if I buy a Geo Metro I don't expect to have a Porsche engine in it.

I am so sick of this cliche metaphor..comon..think different..ow wait..I just did it!!

 

[Planner Dude]

Anyways

We are not comparing models like geo and a porche!

IF we went by this logic it would be like:

I am sorry, I know you wanted an automatic transmission, but we don't allow that on our Ford Focus...that's a luxury feature we reserve for our Ford GT.

Seriously People...since when is a low grade dedicated or higher grade shared GPU considered professional!!!

 

[mrgreen4242]

Why do so many people who purchased the CONSUMER model think they can buy for cheap and have the luxuries of something else. I mean, in the history of any Apple laptop - show me any single laptop for $1000 that has the value the MacBook gives. I mean come on, this is cheap!

That being said, if I buy a Geo Metro I don't expect to have a Porsche engine in it. Come on, be realistic. You bought cheap, you got cheap. I love my MacBook, because I had expectations before I bought it, and new it was not the fastest at gaming. I bought it because of the VALUE. It's a great consumer model, and was not meant for providing luxuries that not everyone needs. That's why the price is what it is.

Yes, future ones will have better graphics, but I promise this situation will always be around. Apple will have a professional model with high end features, and the price to reflect it. They will also have a lower end model, with better features than products now but it will offer less because IT IS LESS.

You're missing the point. The MacBook is $1100, it's not exactly a budget laptop. Putting a better graphics chip in it wouldn't be a big stretch. The iBook G4 was a pretty great value relative to the PowerBook at the time.

Also, just as an interesting aside, quite a few Porches had a Volswagon engine in them. So, while I couldn't get a Geo with a Porche engine, I could get a VW Rabbit with one.

Reckon Apple will assess the GPU of the MacBook for the next generation of Mac's during Leopard's release?

They'll almost certainly get the x3000 Intel chip when it's available. Until then it'll be the GMA950, unless we get an interim release sometime very soon (the x3000 won't be ready for laptop deployment for a 2-3 months at least, and the MB is due, so it's possible but not likely) which COULD (but not likely) get a new GPU. The 7300go is a possibility, I suppose.... still very unlikely imo.

 

[VortexOfPain]

Everyone keeps mentioning how it's only a few dollars more to have Apple put a better GPU in the MacBook. What you are not realizing is the production costs to achieve this. It's not just a matter of Apple buying a new chip. Their entire production line would change, and the cost per benefit would be too high.

This is why you'll see a newer revision of MacBooks, which will have a better graphics processor. There are huge costs to revise a product line, and Apple will wait for a second generation MacBook to release these revisions. It's more than just the GPU swap, talk to any designer to find out how a small change can affect things on a large scale.

Back to the problem at hand, the Apple TV just shipped. MacBook production started over a year ago. Therefore, it's no suprise that a newer item has updated parts, than something that has a production line that's over 14 months old.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

$$$$$ does nail it for sure but its fun reading all the spin by the fan club why Apple uses a $5 graphics chip in Mini and Macbook. Cheap is cheap and the 5 dollar graphics apple went to was just cheap. 7300 is a nice step up. My guess is it will go into the next mini.

 

[iW00t]

Last I checked the 950 was a "low-end" GPU. Dell uses them in hundreds of laptop and desktop models.

Last I checked the 950 isn't even a dedicated GPU...

 

[iBunny]

It comes down to this. Alot of you guys who state that "You dont need a Dedicated GPU for everyday functionality" are nuts, and have completly lost it.

This is the problem, and hopefully apple is listening. By Crippling the MacBook with integrated graphics, as well as only allowing 64MB of shared video memory, I can only do things like simple word stuff, internet, simple video watching, etc. Most of you argue that this is all this machine is ment to do. Ok Fine. 1100$

So if I want to do more... slightly more, play a few games, run like a 20 inch monitor as well, watch some high quality movies, or have a bunch of windows open... I need to buy a MBP. 2200$

No thanks, I will just not buy either. Thanks apple for your choices. Looks like they get no money from me. And Im sure most of you who have some sense agree.

If They put a 1/2 way decent video card in the macbook, we would buy them. I dont need a Professional Machine like the MBP. All I need is a 13'' MacBook... but I do want a better graphics card. It is SO easy to put a Midrange, even low end dedicated graphics card in the MacBook and still Outdo it with a Better Video card for the MBP.

This past revision they could have put a Radeon Mobile x1300 64MB in the top of the line MacBook. And Still Used the Mobile x1600 256 in the MBP. Huge difference between the two.

Im done ranting... but you see my point

 

[zap2]

It comes down to this. Alot of you guys who state that "You dont need a Dedicated GPU for everyday functionality" are nuts, and have completly lost it.
t

Please, the GPU in my Mini is fine...it runs better then my iBook G4, and noone was crying over that CPU.

So if I want to do more... slightly more, play a few games, run like a 20 inch monitor as well, watch some high quality movies, or have a bunch of windows open... I need to buy a MBP. 2200$
t

Thats simply not true! Do you even have a Mac with integreated GPU? My 1.66Ghz Mac Mini runs great. I'm telling you this as sit on it, ripping Family Guys with handbrake(ripping them a lot faster then my iMac G5), surfing the web and using iTunes, and dashboard opens great(the ripple effect runs great too.)....and its running a 20'' ACD.

 

[deputy_doofy]

.
.
.
.

Back to the problem at hand, the Apple TV just shipped. MacBook production started over a year ago. Therefore, it's no suprise that a newer item has updated parts, than something that has a production line that's over 14 months old.

Exactly. All this whining and moaning from everyone reminds me of every ibook release over the last 4-5 years, where the iBook, because it was almost always released after the Powerbooks by at least a few months, had better everything.

I'm not a fan of shared graphics, but really, before I bought my MBP back in October, I was using my PB 12" 1GHz, which had a dedicated 32mb something . The current MacBook's shared GPU probably still kicks the crap out of my PB's dedicated GPU.

 

[NintendoFan]

It really seems to be people want their MacBook's to be MacBook Pros. Higher this more that, when they fail to notice it isn't meant to be higher this and more of that.

 

[Manic Mouse]

It really seems to be people want their MacBook's to be MacBook Pros. Higher this more that, when they fail to notice it isn't meant to be higher this and more of that.

What a strawman.

Nobody is asking for their MBs to be MBPs. We're asking for a dedicated GPU, and last time I checked having a dedicated GPU doesn't make a laptop "professional". Not by a long shot.

If you want any form of dedicated GPU in an Apple laptop you need to buy the professional one. I think that's a pretty dire situation to be honest. A low-end GPU like the Go7300 isn't out of the question or unreasonable. If it can be put in the TV then there's no reason at all it can't be in the MB. Something that costs a small fraction of the MB shouldn't have ANY components that outperform it.

 

[VortexOfPain]

This is the problem, and hopefully apple is listening. By Crippling the MacBook with integrated graphics, as well as only allowing 64MB of shared video memory, I can only do things like simple word stuff, internet, simple video watching, etc.

So if I want to do more... slightly more, play a few games, run like a 20 inch monitor as well, watch some high quality movies, or have a bunch of windows open... I need to buy a MBP.

You sir, are very uninformed. A post like this shows stupidity and ignorance on a topic you know nothing about. Crippled? Only 64MB memory? Can only do "simple video watching"? Cannot run a 20 inch display? Cannot have a bunch of windows open?

The GMA 950 can allocate up to 224 MB of memory for video, using your Mac's RAM. Proof? http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

Cannot run a 20" display? Uhm, a big yes. 1920x1200 on an external display WHILE still providing full video on internal. Proof: http://support.apple.com/specs/macbook/macbook.html

The other complaints of "simple video watching" and "cannot have a bunch of windows open" are so idiotic I won't even try to argue. You sound like your 12 years old, and have no idea what you're talking about. I won't stoop so low as to argue these.

No thanks, I will just not buy either. Looks like they get no money from me.

THANK YOU!!! (why are you posting in the MacBook forums then?

 

[VortexOfPain]

A low-end GPU like the Go7300 isn't out of the question or unreasonable. If it can be put in the TV then there's no reason at all it can't be in the MB.

See my post above. The Apple TV just started shipping. The current MacBooks production line started 14 months ago. I'll explain no more, it's been posted earlier for a better explanation.

 

[Manic Mouse]

THANK YOU!!! (why are you posting in the MacBook forums then?

And this, my friends, is why Mac users have a reputation of being snobby ********s. If Apple don't have a computer to meet your needs instead of saying "Apple have a gap in their lineup then" they say "Piss off then". After all, how dare you want a computer that suits you? Apple makes computers and you change to suit them! Apple don't ask you what you want, they tell you what they'll give you, and you're damn thankfull they give you anything at all!

Apple didn't provide a laptop that suited iBunny and therefore he didn't buy one. Losing potential Mac sales isn't something you should be thankfull of if you're an Apple fan.

 

[Manic Mouse]

You sir, are very uninformed. A post like this shows stupidity and ignorance on a topic you know nothing about. Crippled? Only 64MB memory?....

The GMA 950 can allocate up to 224 MB of memory for video, using your Mac's RAM. Proof? http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

The chipset can, yes. But Macs can't, since Apple drivers cripple it to 64Mb.

If you're going to make fun of someone for being ignorant and stupid please make sure you check your facts in future.

 

[Manic Mouse]

See my post above. The Apple TV just started shipping. The current MacBooks production line started 14 months ago. I'll explain no more, it's been posted earlier for a better explanation.

The were updated in November, were they not?

In fact Apple wasted money by putting draft-n wireless cards in MacBooks, that you can't even use unless you pay them even more, when they could have put the extra couple of bucks that they cost into a dedicated GPU.

 

[snowmoon]

The chipset can, yes. But Macs can't, since Apple drivers cripple it to 64Mb.

If you're going to make fun of someone for being ignorant and stupid please make sure you check your facts in future.

You should check yours as well... because of the arch of a shared memory space you don't need nearly as much "dedicated" memory compared to a separate card. This is the reason the mini beat out the iMac on specific opengl benchmarks. And as has been pointed out you can't compare a 14 month old product with one released this month.

The 950 does provide "dedicated" video and 3d processing even if it's not a discrete motherboard component. Using a larger discrete video chip would have made the MB bigger, probably have a shorter battery life, and probably have other negative impacts on it's usability. Everything has an impact.

And this, my friends, is why Mac users have a reputation of being snobby ********s. If Apple don't have a computer to meet your needs instead of saying "Apple have a gap in their lineup then" they say "Piss off then". After all, how dare you want a computer that suits you? Apple makes computers and you change to suit them! Apple don't ask you what you want, they tell you what they'll give you, and you're damn thankfull they give you anything at all!

Apple didn't provide a laptop that suited iBunny and therefore he didn't buy one. Losing potential Mac sales isn't something you should be thankfull of if you're an Apple fan.

The snobbish effect you are seeing is because people are complaining about Apple's lineup and don't even own any of the hardware. Apple's R&D came to specific conclusions about what features will be supported and how much memory and what video cards they will put in each system for a reason. If you can't or won't believe that fact then it's your loss.

People who use Apple hardware can see the effects not having limitless choice in better hardware and better support overall. If you can't or won't try it for yourself then it's your loss, not ours. Cheap laptops are just that ... cheap. Macbooks on the other hand are inexpensive for the level of software and hardware you get out of the box.

I would prefer that Apple rather not get the sale than compromise on hardware decisions. Even so Apple doesn't need iBunny's sale; Apple is still several times more profitable than most other tech companies.

 

[iW00t]

I would prefer that Apple rather not get the sale than compromise on hardware decisions. Even so Apple doesn't need iBunny's sale; Apple is still several times more profitable than most other tech companies.

Wow! It is such a compromise to give consumers more!

I'm absolutely gobb smacked! Why not run out to your nearest store and buy your quad for the price of an Octo? Oh wait...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I hope that the Apple TV's GPU indicates that the next rev. of the MacBook will have a "real" GPU. The X3000 looks to be better but I still vote for a GeForce or Radeon in the MacBook.

 

[VortexOfPain]

The chipset can, yes. But Macs can't, since Apple drivers cripple it to 64Mb.

If you're going to make fun of someone for being ignorant and stupid please make sure you check your facts in future.

First off, thanks snow moon you hit the nail right on the head. Manic Mouse, I don't mean to get in a pissing match with you but please check your facts before you berate others. Here is documentation that OS X does in fact allocate more to the GPU: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303407

I'm only trying to help education those who do not understand the bigger picture. Yes, the MacBooks would be AWESOME with a better graphics card. YES, they will eventually have a better graphics card. But when you operate a business, it is important to listen to consumers (and Yes, Apple does this), but sometimes the cost can outweight the benefits. For Apple, if the MacBook was introduced over a year ago, and has only undergone minor hardware changes, they will wait for a larger overhaul in order to change their production lines.

 

[gnasher729]

A go7300 is too expensive to put in the MacBook, yet it's in the tv?

The MacBook has a rather expensive mobile Core 2 Duo chip inside, where the Apple TV has a much slower and much much cheaper CPU. The MacBook doesn't need a graphics card for decoding H.264; the Apple TV does. Cheap, slow processor and cheapest dedicated graphics card are the cheapest combination that is capable of decoding H.264 fast enough.

Apple TV is made to display movies and nothing else; it uses the cheapest combination of CPU and GPU that can handle that. The MacBook has a much more powerful CPU; since it has to handle a whole range of different application, that is a much more useful combination for 99% of its users.

 

[Eidorian]

First off, thanks snow moon you hit the nail right on the head. Manic Mouse, I don't mean to get in a pissing match with you but please check your facts before you berate others. Here is documentation that OS X does in fact allocate more to the GPU: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303407

It would be nice if we were given more information about the current shard video RAM allocation though.