Apple Tv - the crippled device you'll force to take

[ipedro]

What I don't get is why people are complaining so much. You obviously don't like the product. Don't buy it.

People are complaining as if they had a credit card on file that was going to be charged regardless if they liked the product or not.

Apple makes products that work within their ecosystem of products. If you want to use different codecs, record live programming with a DVR, connect hard drives to your TV... go right ahead. There are other products in the market.

If this doesn't do what you want it to do, then move right along. Apple products aren't for you.

 

[keviha]

What I don't get is why people are complaining so much. You obviously don't like the product. Don't buy it.

People are complaining as if they had a credit card on file that was going to be charged regardless if they liked the product or not.

Apple makes products that work within their ecosystem of products. If you want to use different codecs, record live programming with a DVR, connect hard drives to your TV... go right ahead. There are other products in the market.

If this doesn't do what you want it to do, then move right along. Apple products aren't for you.

I find it funny when I read replies that basically say "if you're not for it - don't rock the boat with your negative comments and move on".

From what I can tell most of the comments where they may be perceived as complaining are from people who own the current ATV and after a lot of time anticipating a new ATV are expressing their concern, displeasure, whatever you want to call it. There has been a lot of build up over the past 1-2 years as to whether ATV would continue and if so, what it might/could morph into, so it's only natural there are going to be people who are excited and those that are critical based largely on expectations and how they want to use the product. ATV has always been a polarizing product - it should surprise no one that the new version has illicit ed comments on both sides.

To just disregard and try to shut down many of these posts from people as just complaining (or in other words - how dare you point out merit based concerns with ATV2) doesn't do anything for moving deep discussions forward.

Hey, I'm in the camp that ATV2 (in it's current form) is not right for me. Maybe as time goes on (and additional functionality is achieved) that will change, but in the meantime I'll continue to enjoy the two ATV1's that I currently have. I did put an order in for an ATV2 for my mother as I think ATV2 will be a good fit for how she'll consume media.

I look forward to more analysis, opinions, etc. from folks on both sides of the fence. Cheers.

 

[Ovenall]

Oh come on. No one's trying to "shut down" posts. People are welcome to complain. It's what the internet is for!

The simple point is that consumers like me who don't give a rat's ass about streaming various codecs or formats -- don't give a rat's ass about it. This is the segment of the market Apple is targeting. Basic users who are not concerned about such things.

I am not dumb, I'm simply uninterested in keeping a library of films and TV shows, and I have no interest in learning a bunch of info about various file formats. I just don't care. I don't care about Major League Baseball either. And I'll never learn how to fly a plane.

And I'll never know the difference between a bunch of different file formats and how to stream them to my television. I just want to watch a movie every once in a while. And stream my Netflix account to my TV. And maybe, maybe something more somewhere down the line. That's who Apple is marketing to. Nothing can be all things to all people.

 

[emaja]

...I'll never know the difference between a bunch of different file formats and how to stream them to my television. I just want to watch a movie every once in a while. And stream my Netflix account to my TV. And maybe, maybe something more somewhere down the line. That's who Apple is marketing to. Nothing can be all things to all people.

This ^

It is a simple business proposition. Apple makes a product. If you want it because it does what you want it to do - you will buy it. If not - then you will not.

You also have to remember that people on MR are not your typical users. Most of us here know about these different codecs and the shortcomings of the new ATV, but most don't because it just doesn't matter to them. All that matters to most people is that it is simple and that it works.

Unfortunately there are people on MR that will buy anything that has the Apple logo on it and claim that it is perfect and even cures cancer. There are also those who will complain about whatever hardware updates Apple does since they are not enough of an update.

Why does it have to be one or the other. All that matters is that it works FOR YOU. If not, skip it.

 

[Ovenall]

To put it another way, I am a long time (12 years) Mac user who is in the advertising/design business. I do a lot of graphic design type work, but I've also done TV and video production. I know how to use the basics of Handbrake.

I was aware of a product called Apple TV. I had only a sketchy idea of what it did and I never looked into it. Then they announced the new Apple TV. All I heard was "stream Netflix, $99, Apple" and I was sold. The fact that I can rent additional stuff through Apple and that I can stream Youtube, my photos, etc., is just icing on the cake. I pre-ordered which is something I never do.

This is what Apple is doing. Marketing to guys like me, and people who have even less knowledge about tech than I do. It's a simple marketing decision, and I think it's the right move on their part for sales. Ultimately, Apple is trying to make money.

 

[Doc750]

"If you don't want an apple tv, don't buy it ... If you bought an apple tv, and don't like it, bring it back ... bring it back."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4

 

[gkarris]

I wish they'd put Purchases back in - I purchased all the shows/movies/music with mine and it threw it all back onto my server.

That would be just a software update on the new one - easy "fix"....

My main problem is my HT is set up for Component (from my old projector). The new AppleTV has no Componet. Interesting, my XB360, PS3 still do...don't feel like doing more wiring work.

Cancelled my order for a new one. It may be easier to buy an old AppleTV on closeout (my old one burned out months ago).

 

[emaja]

My main problem is my HT is set up for Component (from my old projector). The new AppleTV has no Componet. Interesting, my XB360, PS3 still do...don't feel like doing more wiring work.

I know that it will not be until the end of the year, but the "analog sunset" is coming and those component connections along with all other analog connections are no longer going to be built into new HT components.

It does not affect you right now, but just thought I'd pass that along.

 

[VTMac]

I wish they'd put Purchases back in - I purchased all the shows/movies/music with mine and it threw it all back onto my server.

That would be just a software update on the new one - easy "fix"....

Sorry to tell you it's not a software fix. The ATV2 likely doesn't have enough onboard storage to hold the entire movie while you stream it back to your computer. That would be a hardware issue.

 

[NightStorm]

Sorry to tell you it's not a software fix. The ATV2 likely doesn't have enough onboard storage to hold the entire movie while you stream it back to your computer. That would be a hardware issue.

I think they could come up with a method to have the download either stream directly to a designated computer, or simply add it to your download queue on your iTunes account.

 

[lilo777]

My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

I agree for the most part but there are two caveats. Firstly, there are too many devices (including TV sets) that already allow people to stream the movies. It makes perfect sense to have this functionality elsewhere rather than in dedicated box. You have to have DVD player anyways (and some families have to have game consoles). Those can do just everything ATV can. The second point is that content providers do not like vertically integrated companies (of which only one left really and it's Apple). So you are much more likely to rent the same movie for less some place else (Amazon VOD being a primary candidate).

 

[Seydlitz]

I am not dumb, I'm simply uninterested in keeping a library of films and TV shows, and I have no interest in learning a bunch of info about various file formats.

Blinkered much?

1. Codec issues are gone for a few years nowadays. Install XBMC/(works on Linux, Windows, OSX) and you have a free mediacenter. You will not have to worry about a fileformat. Even better, the interface is more streamlined than *gasp* finder.
2.Cheap, 1080P devices like the WD-TV can play everything from a unified command line. Even simpler than XBMC. This and many other products are hardly new on the market. People will compare, even if the features are completely different.
3. The notion "computers are hard" is also a tired notion. most people by now know how to look for a file and double click it (note* with above software even that is simplified to the extreme). really... most people need to input *some* data now and again on their work. Giving most of that is Office based (quite alike on OSX or Windows) people even know some files need different programs (Excel/word).

People aren't blithering idiots. Nor is clicking a file arcane or time consuming anymore. We do not live in the OS9-Win32 days...

Now why people are rightly dissapointed:

- The ATV2, succesor of the ATV1, is a completely different device, with in many ways less possibilities.
- Also, technically it is behind the times. 1080p is standard on most sold tv's and on most sold media devices. Want to bet that most people who are in the market for these devices are LCD/Plasma owners? So why does a lowly WD-TV offer it and an ATV2 not? That is what a consumer will think.

Oh and please don't come with "consumers dont care about 1080P". Because "one extra core, A digital fuel injection, Extra Microflitz blades for better shaving and 1080P" are exactly what the consumer is running after.

It's the techno geeks that go: Hmm the bitrate of 720P is already the bottleneck *insert dificult calculation*. This means they have to use compression *insert bitrate discussion*.

Consumers look at the tags, not at the tech.



So yes, the ATV2 is an interesting device. But it has some head scratching choices (resolution) and some annoying (if understandable) feature shift.

 

[rotarypower101]

Apple removed purchases from the new Apple TV because there is no dedicated storage for them.

Downloading purchased content on the Apple TV was never a great experience anyway.

In fact, the last HD movie I purchased directly on my Apple TV took forever to download — much longer than it would have in iTunes (probably due to the processor overhead and slow hard drive).

Then you would have to wait for it to sync back (which was again very slow). If you tried to do anything while it was syncing, it would stop because it couldn’t handle syncing and playing content at the same time (other than audio).

Again, not the best experience. Very complicated for an Apple device. Purchases aren’t gone. You can still purchase movies, music and TV shows on iTunes on your Mac/PC and practically every iDevice that has enough storage to complete the transaction.

%100 correct, but I feel apple is a clever enough company to have implemented a better solution than just removing the ability to buy content from the TV. Thats just rolling over IMO

Why not build a system by which it gave the user the option to purchase the selection, and stream the content immediately, while queuing the appropriate download to the users iTunes library when it is advantageous to download.

I know easier said than done, but they did make a conscious decision to delete any kind of storage that could be used in this way, and I am pretty sure most users would have wanted a choice, and that way they would have had what design elements they wanted and the choice for their paying customers.


I feel a cliche coming....everybody wins!

 

[Chwisch87]

One, most backlogs of TV shows are going to be on netflix usually within a year after they come out and even more so today on instant play. The plane fact of the matter is this is really a device for watching a movie you never intent on owning, streaming music/video from your computer and watching netflix. If there is something i wish to watch over and over again or having in my blu-ray library I am simply going to just buy it.

Eventually this device will also be opened up to "paid services" like hulu plus or something similar. Either that or it won't be long until you can just streaming it from your iOS device to AppleTV either.

 

[bergmef]

Exactly. The kind of person who wants to save everything (or even some things) they download will fill any size drive that comes with the unit. And people like me who don't save stuff will jump at a low price point.

I can't even think of a good reason to argue having it any other way. You can STILL save whatever you want and stream it using this device, yet people are complaining about it.

I just hope it actually works as advertised.

I just like to have my photos and music on it so I don't have to have the computer running to a slideshow. Personal preference. I'm not a collector just because I would like disk space for that.

 

[ceraz]

Well I am sadly joining those that are disappointed.

The new ATV is a very different product. ATV started out by synchronising my content on my TV so I didn't have to leave the Mac on. Now Apple's focus is really on me renting *their* content to be streamed to my TV (or leave my Mac on for streaming).

I love my patched ATV with 250GB disk, I even bring it on vacation with me to plug into the local TV/HIFI so I can play *my* music and movies.

I was impatiently waiting on full 1080p support to view *my* Home videos via the ATV over Giga Ethernet. The new tech specs are 10 years old.

This hasn't happened .... hello Western Digital for 109USD.

 

[Ovenall]

Seydlitz- that's truly an epic "missing my point" moment.

You talk about "consumers" not caring/caring about 1080. I am a consumer who has purchased an ATV. I do not care about 720 vs. 1080. I really don't. Really. I'm not lying or trying to be cute. I just don't care. I've seen BluRay, and I've seen other HD. I can notice a slight difference, more or less depending on the film. But I really, really don't care. I bought the ATV because I want to plug it in and watch movies on my TV and it costs $99. 15 feet away in my non-audiophile patched together living room -- I don't care that much. I like watching a movie once in a while and it doesn't go past that.

I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions for "free" media centers, but again, I am not concerned about this. $99. Apple. Netflix.

 

[newagemac]

I have a strong feeling one of the reasons Apple decided to drop the hard drive and focus on streaming (other than the low price and ease of use) is because of that huge new datacenter and rumored plans to store and stream your itunes library over the internet.

With that, you possibly won't even need a computer or a hard drive. The new Apple TV already offers mobileme integration for photos.

I really do think affordable thin client hardware with an internet connection and able to stream is the wave of the future when it comes to entertainment and media. The hardware is easy. The main focus should be on the UI and content. The new Apple TV should be positioned well for this.

 

[MowingDevil]

Has anyone stopped to consider perhaps they'll bring the purchase option back to the TV once the cloud based iTunes is ready?

 

[PIX]

iDisk if you dislike the Apple TV2 so much why don't you "make a stand" and don't buy it? There is no reason to complain when there are so many video alternatives out there like Amazon Unbox, Windows Media Center and WD HD Media Player to name a few...

In my opinion, Apple has crippled the device and rendered it less usful... it's because there current Consumers aren't making a stand saying NO we want a Apple Tv with this and that and this.

 

[ntrigue]

I agree you can do that - but what I just realized the other day were the codec limitations. What about things in .mkv format, or some flavors of .avi, etc.

You can only stream stuff that is in Apple's limited arena of codecs.

This AppleTV is like an Airport Express with HDMI and an interface - only it's crippled by being unable to use many codecs that exist now.

If someone hacks it so that I can play anything through it then I might be interested. I have to look and see if the someone has extended (hacked) the itunes app to play (pass through) the mkv codec - then I may buy it!

Handbrake

 

[Seydlitz]

Seydlitz- that's truly an epic "missing my point" moment.

No sorry, not epic at all. Cold hard facts. Consumers look at the tag and assume 1080P>720P. You have done the research and know that 720P on a 42" plasma takes a viewing distance of 2.5-3 meter. But the normal consumer doesn't know this.

You talk about "consumers" not caring/caring about 1080. I am a consumer who has purchased an ATV. I do not care about 720 vs. 1080. I really don't. Really. I'm not lying or trying to be cute. I just don't care. I've seen BluRay, and I've seen other HD. I can notice a slight difference, more or less depending on the film. But I really, really don't care.

Anecdotal. Sorry, commerce works with buzz words and they work quite effectively. You are a geek who has done his research. The average Joe just wants 1080P (TrueHD!). He goes to a costco and the salesman will confirm this by spewing a techno nonsense blabber. The consumer goes home happily with a big 1080P LCD.

I bought the ATV because I want to plug it in and watch movies on my TV and it costs $99. 15 feet away in my non-audiophile patched together living room -- I don't care that much. I like watching a movie once in a while and it doesn't go past that.

I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions for "free" media centers, but again, I am not concerned about this. $99. Apple. Netflix.

Good for you. But that doesn't do anything on either of my and other good points. But you quite strongly have the opinion that we should not complain.

See the problem? You are happy, so others shouldn't complain even though they can point out where their problems lie. Even worse, your opinion becomes "the consumers opinion" which in itself is quite tricky.. and in this case has been proven to be wrong. The 1080P tag works quite well in sales. It's completely pointless to hold the position that this won't matter for the decision of the average consumer.

 

[chrono1081]

It's rather ridiculous for critics to say Apple is trying to control the consumers' abilities when all they are doing is modifying a product to what they deem appropriate. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

+ 329482093849823840283409823

Everyone thinks there is a conspiracy behind things.

I myself welcome the fact that I can store all my stuff on a computer where I have externals I can expand my movie collection on to rather than be limited to what size hd is in the apple TV.

This is one of the reasons the Atv is cheaper. I'm actually considering it now.

 

[Ovenall]

Seydlitz- see post #28. Complain away!

My point is you're complaining about the wrong thing. ATV is being marketed as a simple, cheap plug-and-play device. That's it. Pointing out various features it's "missing" to you is beside the point. It doesn't have those "missing" features on purpose.

Might as well complain that Apple computers don't ship with Windows installed. After all, far more software and games that are attractive to the average consumer would be available to the average consumer if those MacBooks were running Windows, right?

 

[carlgo]

Well, Uncle Jobs has a vision and that is to have small and thin devices playing media, and ultimately software programs, distributed through Apple.

The idea is to have this done as easily and intuitively as possible, because each degree of difficulty is an obstacle to success.

ATV is only a hobby because that is all the bandwidth and reception infrastructure allows now.