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WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,007
3,894
Seattle
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.
 
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rulymammoth

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2015
440
602
Outstanding review, and I agree with all of it. Based on early reviews, I was incredibly surprised by the poor FOV, the screen glare, and the weight. Yes, the weight even surprised me. This thing is so uncomfortable to wear because of how it sits against your face. When I take it off, I'm actually relieved to do so. There's no way I could sit through a 2 hour movie wearing this, as cool as it is using this.

Sorry, Apple, but this ain't it. I'm a fanboy through and through, but this just ain't it.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,007
3,894
Seattle
Outstanding review, and I agree with all of it. Based on early reviews, I was incredibly surprised by the poor FOV, the screen glare, and the weight. Yes, the weight even surprised me. This thing is so uncomfortable to wear because of how it sits against your face. When I take it off, I'm actually relieved to do so. There's no way I could sit through a 2 hour movie wearing this, as cool as it is using this.

Sorry, Apple, but this ain't it. I'm a fanboy through and through, but this just ain't it.
Yes, and actually what's quite frustrating about the AVP compared to even a device as "cheap" as the Quest is the Quest at least lets you adjust the angle it sits on your face because the arms rotate. Apple dropped the ball here by not allowing that, which adds to the discomfort.
 

Rivanov

macrumors 6502
Dec 28, 2010
488
526
Netherlands
And people were calling me moronic by pointing out the FOV “issue”.

 

Lobwedgephil

macrumors 603
Apr 7, 2012
5,791
4,754
I am very curious on the glare, will you describe more in detail if you have a chance. Know you have been here for a while, so respect your opinion. Have used mine for 4-5 hours tonight, and have not noticed any glare issues so far. But maybe I am missing something as seems like popular issue so far.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,007
3,894
Seattle
I am very curious on the glare, will you describe more in detail if you have a chance. Know you have been here for a while, so respect your opinion. Have used mine for 4-5 hours tonight, and have not noticed any glare issues so far. But maybe I am missing something.
If you don't notice it, you don't notice it (enjoy the Vision Pro!). But if you want to see it more easily, open up an Apple TV original, - that's the easiest place to see it, when the Apple logo appears - a white icon on a black background. Pause then. The glare inside the lenses is laughably bad. It's the only way to describe it. Some less sensitive types won't notice it on evenly illuminated material (like the spatial video with the lady in Norway on a tightrope during the day), but I tend to notice it everywhere, though some material is worse than others (anything high contrast/night scenes).
 

Lobwedgephil

macrumors 603
Apr 7, 2012
5,791
4,754
If you don't notice it, you don't notice it (enjoy the Vision Pro!). But if you want to see it more easily, open up an Apple TV original, - that's the easiest place to see it, when the Apple logo appears - a white icon on a black background. Pause then. The glare inside the lenses is laughably bad. It's the only way to describe it. Some less sensitive types won't notice it on evenly illuminated material (like the spatial video with the lady in Norway on a tightrope during the day), but I tend to notice it everywhere, though some material is worse than others (anything high contrast/night scenes).
Thanks, watched Masters of Air episode, but only thing so far on Apple TV, will keep an eye out. Appreciate it.
 

Jensend

macrumors 65816
Dec 19, 2008
1,448
1,659
3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.
All VR headsets use strobed displays. Each frame is shown for a short while, and the rest of the time the displays are black.
OLED VR headsets tend to use significantly longer strobe times than LCD.

Because LCD is backlit, the backlight can be pushed super bright for a super short amount of time. Yes, LCDs take longer to transition between values, but you don't see most of the transition because the backlight is off. On my Valve Index which uses LCDs and can run at 144Hz, I occasionally see a remnant of the previous frame.

With the self-emissive nature of OLED, I'm guessing that pushing them equally as bright would damage or degrade the panel. So instead, each strobe is longer.

I've heard that the AVP can be quite bright, and the brightness slider doesn't have much effect. If they allowed lower brightness settings, they could probably use a shorter frame time.
 

GrindedDown

macrumors 6502a
Jun 4, 2009
718
270
Las Vegas
I actually thought for sure that this was the one problem that Apple would be able to solve vs the quest. Camera lens manufacturers go through great deals to apply coatings that eliminate glare and artifacts like fringing, aberrations, etc… I expected the Vision Pro to have a significant investment in these optics. I don’t know if it’s just a limitation of the pancake design or what, but disappointing to hear nonetheless.
 

skrungemaster

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2020
75
124
from the marketing, I was anticipating a huge FOV. In my opinion, FOV is the most crucial aspect to immersive VR and useful AR.

Being able to naturally see in your periphery is key, and it’s such a let down to hear we are still stuck in binocular mode.
 

kkee

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2023
525
665
Sydney
And people were calling me moronic by pointing out the FOV “issue”.

It’s totally your fault that you put that into these beginners radar.

Just kidding. To be honest it doesn’t bother me at all because that display is just so high definition you will totally forget about FoV.
 

kkee

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2023
525
665
Sydney
The display inside the headset.
The glare is very subjective. I never found it to be bothering my eyes. I think the OP has very glare sensitivity issues. He can send a suggestion to Apple to include glaring reduction option in accessibility.

edit: I also suspect the same sensitivity issue with his vision also affects the smearing effect because I tried mine, quickly move left and right, and I didn’t see any smearing.
 
Last edited:

macman01101

macrumors regular
May 2, 2005
164
643
I don’t understand this glare issue at all. If light is sealed from the outside where is it coming from?
It’s not sealed, that’s the problem. I asked multiple store employees and tried on multiple units including the one I purchased, and light leaks especially from the bottom near the nose, and also on the sides (for some people. For me it does leak on the sides slightly).

I agree with everything OP said. I am also going to return mine.

I could probably stand the discomfort if the visuals are outstanding. They’re not. The chromatic aberration / prismatic / holographic type effect is just too hard to deal with. The FOV is also tight.

I love the concept of spatial computing, and I want it to work. I’m normally a very early adopter and hope Apple succeeds. This is not something I could use productively.

For entertainment - yes, the 3d effects are cool. It’s just like you’d see at Disney or IMAX, and better. The blur and other effects mentioned above are less noticeable during movies. I don’t watch a lot of movies though. If I did, my main issue would be that the unit is not comfortable. Other than squeezing it more/less on your face, there is no real adjustment. Moving the solo band up/down in the back didn’t help relieve any pressure for me for more than a couple minutes.
 

kkee

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2023
525
665
Sydney
It’s not sealed, that’s the problem. I asked multiple store employees and tried on multiple units including the one I purchased, and light leaks especially from the bottom near the nose, and also on the sides (for some people. For me it does leak on the sides slightly).
You need to scan your face again. Apple has more than 20 light seal size, you must not get the right one.
 

rulymammoth

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2015
440
602
It’s not sealed, that’s the problem. I asked multiple store employees and tried on multiple units including the one I purchased, and light leaks especially from the bottom near the nose, and also on the sides (for some people. For me it does leak on the sides slightly).

I agree with everything OP said. I am also going to return mine.

I could probably stand the discomfort if the visuals are outstanding. They’re not. The chromatic aberration / prismatic / holographic type effect is just too hard to deal with. The FOV is also tight.

I love the concept of spatial computing, and I want it to work. I’m normally a very early adopter and hope Apple succeeds. This is not something I could use productively.

For entertainment - yes, the 3d effects are cool. It’s just like you’d see at Disney or IMAX, and better. The blur and other effects mentioned above are less noticeable during movies. I don’t watch a lot of movies though. If I did, my main issue would be that the unit is not comfortable. Other than squeezing it more/less on your face, there is no real adjustment. Moving the solo band up/down in the back didn’t help relieve any pressure for me for more than a couple minutes.

Totally. Too many compromises. It's not even about the price. If the glare were gone (and, yes, it's an issue), great. But then the fit is still uncomfortable. If the fit were comfortable, great. But then the app selection is terrible.
 

kkee

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2023
525
665
Sydney
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.
Just curious, do you have high astigmatism? That might explain the problem for glaring and smearing you experience.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,007
3,894
Seattle
Just curious, do you have high astigmatism? That might explain the problem for glaring and smearing you experience.
Very, very slight astigmatism. My wife has no astigmatism. We both see smearing on the Vision Pro when moving our heads around (not when moving content on the screen around), and neither of us see smearing on the Quest 2 or Quest 3. I'd guess this isn't to do with our eye sight.
 

Jony Ive

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2012
151
228
Very, very slight astigmatism. My wife has no astigmatism. We both see smearing on the Vision Pro when moving our heads around (not when moving content on the screen around), and neither of us see smearing on the Quest 2 or Quest 3. I'd guess this isn't to do with our eye sight.
Smearing is due to OLED. Quest DK2 also had it

Glare is due to internal display reflecting on lenses.


These are normal issues on VR headsets, the problem here has been Apple overpromising their product
 

WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,007
3,894
Seattle
Smearing is due to OLED. Quest DK2 also had it

Glare is due to internal display reflecting on lenses.


These are normal issues on VR headsets, the problem here has been Apple overpromising their product
100% agreed. And also none of the usual shill reviewers mentioning it is expected, and shameful. But you know, if they did mention this stuff they'd never get sent the products to begin with.
 

Herbert123

macrumors regular
Mar 19, 2009
240
253
9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.
...and this... THIS! ...is exactly why the Vision Pro and any other 3d eye wear will remain a niche product and never become mainstream nor convince the average user. Together with the awkward heavy weight of these and other 3d headsets wearing these things for any longer length of time becomes an uncomfortable (even physically painful) experience for most people, excluding the die-hard tech enthusiasts.

The Vision Pro is a jump forward, but not nearly enough. It's still an awkward to wear heavy ski-goggle just like the ones from 2 decades ago. Less uncomfortable that those older ones, of course. People will be mesmerized by their first experiences with the tech, and then their experience is fundamentally marred by the physical distress caused by wearing those goggles any longer than 30~40 minutes. And visible effects left behind by wearing those heavy goggles.

Only when these things are as comfortable to wear and use as regular glasses or contact lenses will the technology succeed. Personally I dislike wearing large headphones, even comfortable ones: and many people will agree with me on this. Most people dislike or even abhor wearing ski goggles, which are much more comfortable than wearing a Vision Pro or any other VR/AR headset. These heavy-weight Vision Pro goggles are far, far worse in this regard.

For now all these headsets provide an interesting geeky, yet fatally flawed, user experiences. I wholeheartedly agree with the OP: a beautiful tech demo that shows future potential. We'll have to wait another decade or two before the user experience becomes physically acceptable for average users.
 

Herbert123

macrumors regular
Mar 19, 2009
240
253
Btw, I am convinced it is only a matter of time before VR/AR tech will solve the physical UX. I believe Apple's Vision Pro is an investment to be ready or to be a front-runner when that time arrives. The first mobile phones were physical monstrosities with limited functionality. And turned into very pleasant to use physical devices in just a few decades with amazing usability and capabilities.

iu
 
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