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BGPL

macrumors 65816
May 4, 2016
1,005
2,740
California
Cool device but not worth $3500. I'll mess around with it for a few weeks and send it back. They needed to get the dev version out sooner, the App Store is pretty bare. Really good apps would keep people using it, but instead I think they'll have a 1/3 return rate.
 
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riverfreak

macrumors 68000
Jan 10, 2005
1,828
2,289
Thonglor, Krung Thep Maha Nakhon
Thorough review, thank you.

1. I don’t experience or notice the glare, but then again, I work in an office with floor to ceiling glass windows. There is glare all the time IRL and somehow my brain has been able to dismiss it.

2. The stock head band is awesome. Works great for me, is super comfortable for hours on end and is extremely easy to adjust. I stopped worrying about my hair and what others think of me when I was 14.

3. Don’t notice any smearing

4. Don’t notice any fringing - my focus is on what’s in front of me? Perhaps this is more noticeable if you’re a content watcher, which I’m not.

5. Field of view. Expected. Doesn’t impact the immersive experience at all for me.

6. Yes speakers are awesome.

7. Optical ID definitely has problems with my Zeiss lenses. Not enough reason to return.

8. Battery and cord has been fine for me. No problems there.

9. I experience no discomfort whatsoever. But I’m used to wearing hats and helmets for various activities some of which are much heavier, more claustrophobic, and more uncomfortable.
 

jqc

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2007
394
204
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.

agree with everythjng. Deal breaker is glare. Returning.
 

mattopotamus

macrumors G5
Jun 12, 2012
14,735
6,100
Excellent post. You really summarized a lot of my experience. I bought this knowing I would mostly use it for watching 3D movies, but I’m completely taken out of the experience because of the glare. People telling you it is the fit do not understand the issue you are describing. Sure it is less noticeable if I watch a movie without being in an environment (pitch black theater for example), but that is a main reason I bought it. It’s only getting worse in the sense once you notice it, you cannot get past it.

It’s very hard to explain to people that cannot see it. Similar to a screen door effect. You either see it or you don’t. Once you see it, it cannot be undone. With that in mind, it’s basically a demo device for me, and I cannot see myself watching a full length film. Personally, not gonna be out $4k for a cool experience that I know I won’t commit to.

I know I would use it when I travel and could live with the glare in those scenarios, but this isn’t chump change we are taking about. I wanted it to me my main source for watching movies solo. It’s just not going to be able to live up to that requirement.
 

Scarpad

macrumors 68020
Jan 13, 2005
2,149
652
Ma
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.
I agree mine is going back as well. I don’t know who would work in non immersive ar mode it’s a poor blend of ultra sharp windows with a blurry background
 
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ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,577
1,673
I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but this feels overly dramatic to me. You bought a first gen product that's already miles ahead of the competition, and you're upset that it isn't perfect? The users and the developers are going to play an integral part in helping Vision Pro evolve into what it is that you want now.
 

Iskee

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2023
28
80
I’m surprised and jealous of all the people claiming that they’re not experiencing glare and no smearing. I’ve had exactly the same experience as OP not using Zeiss inserts. The glare is extremely noticeable in the right conditions and absolutely not a result of improper light seal fit, although I suppose it’s worth trying to reconfigure the IPD to see if that helps at all. On the other hand, the smearing or motion blur from turning your head is completely obvious and makes me wonder how anyone could claim they don’t see it.
 

mattopotamus

macrumors G5
Jun 12, 2012
14,735
6,100
I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but this feels overly dramatic to me. You bought a first gen product that's already miles ahead of the competition, and you're upset that it isn't perfect? The users and the developers are going to play an integral part in helping Vision Pro evolve into what it is that you want now.

I think it’s easy to lose sight of the fact it’s a gen 1 product from Apple. I think the reason it’s easy to lose sight of that is because of the price point. At this price, many people want perfection. Apple positioned this in a really unique spot. I understand demos and marketing material are just that, but people were expecting near perfection knowing the app limitations.

What we are seeing is people wanting $4k level of achievement. They want that giant leap over say a quest 3. It’s unequivocally better than a quest 3, but is it 7x the price better? I believe that is a lot of the frustration people are experiencing. Apple premium price aside.
 

NotApplicable

macrumors 65816
Sep 18, 2019
1,068
2,062
I don’t have many of the OPs issues, but I’m still not sure I’ll keep it. But I’m giving it more than a day to prove itself.

Honestly, it’s about the price of a good TV, so if it can entertain me as much as one I’ll keep it!
 

Iskee

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2023
28
80
I think your assessment is spot on. The only issue you described that I don’t have is Optic ID, which worked flawlessly for me, although I’m not using Zeiss inserts. But your comments about comfort and field of view match my thoughts exactly.
 
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mattopotamus

macrumors G5
Jun 12, 2012
14,735
6,100
I don’t have many of the OPs issues, but I’m still not sure I’ll keep it. But I’m giving it more than a day to prove itself.

Honestly, it’s about the price of a good TV, so if it can entertain me as much as one I’ll keep it!

Try to throw on a movie in Apple+ and go to the cinema environment. It’s basically a glare that comes from the bottom and at times does a strobing effect based on the brightness of the content. I think it’s way more noticeable in 3D content.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68030
May 16, 2006
2,994
6,389
Waterbury, CT
I only have the quest to to compare it to, but I find this thing very comfortable even with just a solo strap. It’s just the glare in the lenses. It bothers me which I’ve heard is a problem on the quest three as well.
 

XboxEvolved

macrumors 6502a
Aug 22, 2004
870
1,117
I surmised that it would have the issues that the OP mentioned and it seems like it's a little worse than I suspected. They may seem like a lot of little things, but a lot of little things add up to one big thing for a lot of people, especially when you are paying $3500 for it, and if you are doing the 12 month plan that's like a damn car payment lol.

As for people talking about reviewers getting blacklisted if they speak negatively of it, yeah maybe Apple wouldn't give them early product, but blacklisting, at least when I was a product reviewer in the past is a bad practice for a company and generally if they get called out on it they won't do it. I had to do this 2-3 times in the past actually because the companies complained to me that my review scores were low, called them out, and they kept giving me review product.

As I thought and I've been saying, you are paying for the chance to be a beta tester at this point.
 

NotApplicable

macrumors 65816
Sep 18, 2019
1,068
2,062
Try to throw on a movie in Apple+ and go to the cinema environment. It’s basically a glare that comes from the bottom and at times does a strobing effect based on the brightness of the content. I think it’s way more noticeable in 3D content.
I watched a movie last night and didn’t have any glare issues. Will be watching more over the next 2 weeks of return period for sure!

If I wear the fat light seal cushion, it lets a ton of light in around my nose. But not with the default one.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,254
39,753
100% agreed. And also none of the usual shill reviewers mentioning it is expected, and shameful. But you know, if they did mention this stuff they'd never get sent the products to begin with.

Case and point about all the "reviewers" out there

I was just getting told this morning how they, iJustine in this case, are actually objective sources of unbiased information about Apple.

yah .. sure.. whateves..

They are shills
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,254
39,753
The other huge disappointment is the field of view.

I'm really shocked Apple released with a very average FOV

That is well known to be a major differentiator in how immersive a VR experience is.

When I see announcements of new HMDs I literally pay attention to the FOV and the panel resolutions, that's it.
No need to tell me more if those things aren't up to spec. Apple missed on 1 of those 2, big time.
 

257Loner

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2022
455
630
I find it startling and eye-opening how different the Vision Pro has been received compared to how other 1st-gen products from Apple were received. People loved their 1st-generation Macintoshes, iPods, and Apple Watches, even though later versions were more capable and more refined. But unlike those other 1st-gen Apple products, the Vision Pro isn’t another screen or a speaker—it weighs on your head, covers your eyes, and tries to augment your vision while in fact producing the exact opposite effect. Nothing manmade can replace God-made vision.

And so people are disappointed and have every right to be.
 

klover

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2009
801
92
I think if anything it reignited an interest in getting the quest 3 again. I’m probably not even going to bother picking up the avp and just cancel. And put the avp out of mind.

Glare. Smearing (worse). More of a 160 fov. Eye tracking that is tiring. No controllers. No ability to sideload. Can’t push vr180 from safari. No YouTube vr. Buggy. No steam hookup.

And I already know spatial computing isn’t a thing with something you don’t want to wear more than 30’mins.

Looking forward to meta quest playing spatial videos from iPhone. Much better value. Much more vr content. Maybe Apple will have something in a few years if it can progress.
Putting aside the "metaverse", the Q3 is a great, "low"-cost entry point to VR. And Asgard's Wrath 2 is, in my view, worth the price for the headset alone. That game pushes VR concepts and execution way down the line.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,254
39,753
And so people are disappointed and have every right to be.

It's like -- Apple, c'mon
All these discussions being had externally now, I'm sure were had internally before.

This should have remained in the lab longer

At the minimum they should have worked with game companies and had a big VR/AR gaming story already fleshed out. That's totally low hanging fruit in this space.

And a lot more people will want to game on something like this vs "look and pinch in the air at a Safari window"
 

soulreaver99

macrumors 68040
Aug 15, 2010
3,704
6,331
Southern California
I’m coming from a Quest Pro, and the AVP is excellent in visual and audio experience. I am however still questioning if it’s $3500 excellent. ($4000 after tax and Apple care).

Also kind of wished that this thing would be smart enough to adjust the images based on my eyesight vs having to buy separate lens inserts especially on how expensive this is.

I’m sure that’s something that may be considered in the next few generations along with having 5G (or whatever the new wireless technology will be at the time) and being lighter.

Comfort is definitely a miss on this. They should have balanced the weight better instead of putting it all in the front.
 
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