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gerald.d

Cancelled
Oct 20, 2007
223
304
Very, very slight astigmatism. My wife has no astigmatism. We both see smearing on the Vision Pro when moving our heads around (not when moving content on the screen around), and neither of us see smearing on the Quest 2 or Quest 3. I'd guess this isn't to do with our eye sight.
Out of interest, how slight, and are you using the Zeiss inserts?

I've been using the Viture One XR glasses for a couple of days. They have built-in diopter adjustment for up to -5 (independent per eye of course), but in addition, I also purchased a prescription insert that correct for both my myopia (-2.75), and my astigmatism (-0.75).

I thought that maybe I could get away with not using the insert and just using the built-in adjustment, but the difference is enormous. I simply couldn't imagine using the glasses without the astigmatism being corrected.

/edit - apologies, I see that you are using the Zeiss inserts. Do they correct for your slight astigmatism?
 
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cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,431
5,627
I am very curious on the glare, will you describe more in detail if you have a chance. Know you have been here for a while, so respect your opinion. Have used mine for 4-5 hours tonight, and have not noticed any glare issues so far. But maybe I am missing something as seems like popular issue so far.

Never ask for the blue pill. Or is that the red one? lol. Seriously if you don’t see a problem then don’t go asking to see it. You can’t unsee it.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G4
Original poster
Mar 29, 2008
10,008
3,894
Seattle
Out of interest, how slight, and are you using the Zeiss inserts?

I've been using the Viture One XR glasses for a couple of days. They have built-in diopter adjustment for up to -5 (independent per eye of course), but in addition, I also purchased a prescription insert that correct for both my myopia (-2.75), and my astigmatism (-0.75).

I thought that maybe I could get away with not using the insert and just using the built-in adjustment, but the difference is enormous. I simply couldn't imagine using the glasses without the astigmatism being corrected.

/edit - apologies, I see that you are using the Zeiss inserts. Do they correct for your slight astigmatism?
It's slight. Again, my wife has no astigmatism and struggled. Yes, I'm using the Zeiss inserts, and yes, they do correct for astigmatism. Wifey was using no inserts.
 

robertosh

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2011
1,147
969
Switzerland
I would keep it until the last day of returning possibility. Of course they would not be able to fix the weight issue, but maybe they can fix some other issues with software. They will be fast given the number of reports, so expect a new OS version before the end of the returning period. I think (from the many reports as I'm not in US) more or less was a normal 1st product type release (for Apple), the only problem is the price, which I guess is difficult to commit to and hence any minor problem gets converted to a big reason to return.
 

Jim Lahey

macrumors 68030
Apr 8, 2014
2,751
5,724
OLED benefits greatly from black frame insertion at 120hz to make a super slick 60z in rapid panning. I’m guessing AVP does not have this feature, which might result in frame persistence and smearing.

ETA: I also wonder if the panel refresh in passthrough could potentially be nerfed in order to keep the overall latency low. Speculation.
 
Last edited:

DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
2,529
8,174
Appreciate the review OP. The main thing keeping me from purchasing this is the weight of the headset. I have a quest 3 and find it uncomfortable to wear after about an hour so I highly doubt the AVP will be a better experience.
 

jclardy

macrumors 601
Oct 6, 2008
4,233
4,577
I am very curious on the glare, will you describe more in detail if you have a chance. Know you have been here for a while, so respect your opinion. Have used mine for 4-5 hours tonight, and have not noticed any glare issues so far. But maybe I am missing something as seems like popular issue so far.
I see it but am not really bothered by it. Easiest way is theater mode, and start an Apple Original show (Masters of the sky works) - the screen will be full black, with full white text in the center. While looking at the text, you will see white highlights around the edges of the frames where the bright parts of the screen are reflecting in the curvature of the lens (Either that - or it is reflecting back off people's eyes into the lens.)

For me it is only an issue in that specific case of stark contrast - when there is a full frame of content I don't see it or notice it any more.
 

attohs

macrumors regular
Sep 13, 2017
112
349
California
If you don't notice it, you don't notice it (enjoy the Vision Pro!). But if you want to see it more easily, open up an Apple TV original, - that's the easiest place to see it, when the Apple logo appears - a white icon on a black background. Pause then. The glare inside the lenses is laughably bad. It's the only way to describe it. Some less sensitive types won't notice it on evenly illuminated material (like the spatial video with the lady in Norway on a tightrope during the day), but I tend to notice it everywhere, though some material is worse than others (anything high contrast/night scenes).
Y’all just need a better fit. So stupid.
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,431
5,627
I think if anything it reignited an interest in getting the quest 3 again. I’m probably not even going to bother picking up the avp and just cancel. And put the avp out of mind.

Glare. Smearing (worse). More of a 160 fov. Eye tracking that is tiring. No controllers. No ability to sideload. Can’t push vr180 from safari. No YouTube vr. Buggy. No steam hookup.

And I already know spatial computing isn’t a thing with something you don’t want to wear more than 30’mins.

Looking forward to meta quest playing spatial videos from iPhone. Much better value. Much more vr content. Maybe Apple will have something in a few years if it can progress.
 

MagicBird

Suspended
Dec 28, 2023
50
82
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.
Finally a post with some factual accounts of the user experience (as opposed to the usual trolling) :)
 

aParkerMusic

macrumors 6502
Dec 20, 2021
368
908
The glare is very subjective. I never found it to be bothering my eyes. I think the OP has very glare sensitivity issues. He can send a suggestion to Apple to include glaring reduction option in accessibility.

edit: I also suspect the same sensitivity issue with his vision also affects the smearing effect because I tried mine, quickly move left and right, and I didn’t see any smearing.
I don’t have any “glare sensitivity”. I’m also not using the optical inserts. However, when looking at a bright webpage or movie, a white haziness surrounds the edges of my FOV. It looks terrible, and makes a movie unenjoyable, I’m not exaggerating. So, either people are using it in different environments (I imagine it’s less of an issue in a very brightly lit environment with white light), or there is a defective batch. I would’ve expected there to be some sort of anti-reflective coating to avoid something like this.
 
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Alpha God Vonn

Suspended
Sep 20, 2021
164
229
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.
Wait for updates
 

Alpha God Vonn

Suspended
Sep 20, 2021
164
229
I would keep it until the last day of returning possibility. Of course they would not be able to fix the weight issue, but maybe they can fix some other issues with software. They will be fast given the number of reports, so expect a new OS version before the end of the returning period. I think (from the many reports as I'm not in US) more or less was a normal 1st product type release (for Apple), the only problem is the price, which I guess is difficult to commit to and hence any minor problem gets converted to a big reason to return.
He needs the $$
 

3goldens

macrumors 68000
Feb 26, 2008
1,890
265
Born NYC Living in CT
Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.use it.
You should get your seal looked at, I have none of this. The stock head band fit like a charm, even without the extra peice which i have not even broke out of the box yet.As far as smearing goes I have not had this happen to me and have not noticed it when using but will look for it next time i use it. Optic ID works great even with my Zoie’s lens everytime. Low field of vision, well, I can not address that as this is the first “VR” head set I have used but it is not a significant factor for me yet. I get the relief part, I needed to take a break, it’s overwhelming for sure. The Zeiss lens are really great but I have to try with out and see if I notice a difference, I debated getting them as I dont need glasses to watch tv. Have not decided whether I am going to keep it but I wanted to say the issues you are complaining about are not a factor for me and would not be a reason I would return. So far, its been a good experience and I am sorry you have had such a negative experience.
 
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leifp

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2008
524
501
Canada
You do you. Obviously. But I don’t quite understand the reactions to an entirely new computing paradigm being judged within a 24hr window. You have two weeks to return it, as I understand things, in the Good Ole USA. Why not try it out for a week or so? Perhaps there are software updates coming to mitigate certain issues, or perhaps your body needs adjustment time, or perhaps… I’m completely wrong and two weeks later a boatload of you will return the devices to Apple. But I would give it that time…
 

mwegner

macrumors newbie
Oct 25, 2021
9
35
Unfortunately, everything the OP listed is pretty spot on.

I suspect the degree of internal glare is going to highly depend on your IPD, too, if you're outside the design sweet spot. One thing you can do is go to Settings -> Eyes & Hands -> Realign Displays. It isn't shown on the helper UI, but the left button will move the lens apart. If you move the lenses in and out a few times, you'll get a sense of where the problem areas lie. You can confirm out of this menu with the lenses in any position, not just the automatic position it wants to go to.

The tunnel/scuba field of view issue is pretty gnarly. For me, I have the least visual field overlap of any headset I've used (from Oculus DK1 through modern VR headsets, plus several analog and digital drone FPV headsets). I'd have to sketch something to really try to show it, but I'm lazy, so imagine this is your view:

Code:
( (   ) )

The slices on the left/right edges are where only one eye can see a screen, towards your peripheral. Usually you have to look at a very extreme eye angle with a straight head to see this area on a headset, but for me on an the AVP it's surprisingly close in. I have more apparent glare/white milkiness in these one-eye areas.

(Also, to the light seal/fit comments--you realize you can just use the headset in a completely dark room once you have it home, right? It's extremely easy to rule out external light ingress!)

The smearing issue is easily seen with passthrough. You can do this eye behavior without a headset too--look at a fixed point, and shake your head left/right while staring at that point. Your eyes will quickly counteract your head movement. This produces a lot of smearing. (This eye behavior is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibulo–ocular_reflex )

I'll be very tempted to return it within the window too. Honestly, it's more of a question of curiosity at this point than any hope of practical day-to-day use cases (although maybe something 3rd party pops out). The weight isn't immediately punishing, but it's very much in the "oh right there's a dumb headset on my face" feeling after ~30 minutes, same as other large headsets. MacBook + Vision Pro on a flight for large virtual workspace is sooooo appealing, but I also can't imagine trying to wear this thing for any substantial portion of a 5+ hour flight, to say nothing of an international journey...
 

ttyRazor

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2019
284
457
Btw, I am convinced it is only a matter of time before VR/AR tech will solve the physical UX. I believe Apple's Vision Pro is an investment to be ready or to be a front-runner when that time arrives. The first mobile phones were physical monstrosities with limited functionality. And turned into very pleasant to use physical devices in just a few decades with amazing usability and capabilities.

iu
I hope that’s true, but I feel we’re already close to the peak of Apple’s (and everyone else’s) miniaturization expertise. Gains at this point are going to be much more incremental.
 
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BradWI

Suspended
Aug 29, 2011
262
2,109
Completely agreed. Going to play around with mine for another week or so and ship it back. Looking forward to future revisions.
 

tengorazon

macrumors regular
Sep 30, 2012
142
151
I also haven’t had any issues with OpticID and the Zeiss lenses. Sounds like several of your problems might be due to improper fit.
 

triscuitbiscuit

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2007
155
108
It’s not sealed, that’s the problem. I asked multiple store employees and tried on multiple units including the one I purchased, and light leaks especially from the bottom near the nose, and also on the sides (for some people. For me it does leak on the sides slightly).

If that were the case then why would the problem exist in a pitch black room? If the glare disappears in a pitch black room then you could blame the seal but if it still occurs in a pitch black room then that has to do with the lenses.
 

chaospet

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2011
185
348
I've spent several hours playing with the AVP since yesterday, and while there's a lot to love about it, I am sending it back.

A bit about me - I LOVE VR. I have been SO excited for Apple to finally come out with a VR/AR/MR/Spatial (whatever you want to call it) device for years. And there is a lot about the AVP that is amazing - the resolution, the depth sensing, the eye and hand tracking. Some of my experiences with the device, like the dinosaur demo and watching content in Disney+, were truly magical.

That said, I'm definitely returning it.

One of the main reasons is comfort. This thing is just SO painful to wear for any length of time. Comfort is a personal thing, of course, and some others don't seem to find it as intolerable as I do. But I just couldn't find a way, with either of the included straps, to make wearing this thing tolerable. Perhaps this can be improved if some third party straps are released (something like the BOBOVR strap that I use with my Quest 3 would probably be great). But for now, it's borderline unusable for me.

The other huge disappointment is the field of view. I had read that it was less than the Quest 3, but I didn't think it could possible be that much of a difference. But oh my, it is drastically smaller. I just tried on my Q3 after playing with the AVP for hours, and I couldn't believe how much wider the FOV was. Apple really dropped the ball on this.

The other big issue for me is that the "sweet spot" for clarity seems to be very narrow. It reminds me somewhat of my old Quest 2. This is really surprising. On the Q3, I pretty much have edge to edge clarity, and I don't have to do much fiddling with the headset fit to get that clarity. That just isn't the case with the AVP. It's only very clear toward the middle of the FOV, and it takes some messing with the way the headset is sitting on your face to get there. Such a disappointment. I've seem some people suggesting that this is a problem with the Zeiss lenses - perhaps (I couldn't say since everything would be very blurry for me without them).

Finally, some of the experiences in the headset are still somewhat buggy. For example, I simply could not get OpticID to set up, no matter how many times I tried. Again, this could be an issue with the Zeiss lenses, I dunno. But it was a bad experience.

On the whole, I am glad the AVP exists. There's a lot about it that's amazing. I'm typing this now while wearing my Q3, and I am truly missing that incredible AVP resolution. However the drawbacks, and the price, erase any advantages the AVP has over the Q3 for me for now. I'm looking forward to what Apple does next when it makes a more consumer friendly device. Hopefully something much lighter and cheaper (dropping the 'eyesight' feature could probably go a long way toward both of these goals!). And it's great to have some competition in this space - already, the existence of the AVP has pushed Meta to add new features to the Quest. But for now the AVP really has the feel of a very expensive developer prototype - it does not yet seem ready for mass use.
 
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