Apple Vision Pro is amazing. And I returned it. (MERGED)

[Ludatyk]

I would gather that there is a large majority of people who never intended on keeping this device due to the cost of it. They wanted to try it but never intended on parting with $4k-$5k for something like this.

Certainly! If cost wasn't a factor in this situation... majority will keep it.

Early adopters claim they have had other 1st generation Apple products... but didn't realize how bad of a 1st generation product they were (Revisionist History is a thing!). The differentiation among AVP versus other 1st generation devices is that the cost is uncomfortable with dismissing.

I had the 1st generation iPhone and it had plenty of hiccups, we are fooling ourselves in thinking that time period didn't come with large amounts of shortcomings. But as an early adopter I was willing to live with it because of the cost.

 

[jqc]

I agree. it's quite frankly shocking this wasnt mentioned by Apple at all, and unforgivable that the YouTubers havent mentioned (except Brian Tong). The glare ruins the exerpience of a home theatre. Period. If I had known its an issue, then I would not have been so disappointed, and made kept it, but they they set expectations WAY to high from their marketing and YouTube marketing. They deserve all the returns due to this.

People in here defending Apple need to understand something. In my view and opinion, owners of the VP who are complaining about some aspects of the VP, mainly FOV, glare, smearing and vingretting, because they were not able to use something that is called 'informed decision'. What this means is Apple neglected to inform buyers of ALL the problems/issues with the VP which meant important and relevant information about the VP was withheld from buyers. This mean buyers were not able to make a proper 'informed decision' if they should purchase the VP or not.

Yes the VP is first generation but Apple should have been expressly clear about the issues of FOV, glare, smearing and vingretting but they weren't and neither was any of the reviewers when they got to try it out for the very first time at Apple's headquarters. Only later when it was a few days before official release day did one video appear to bring attention to the visual issues mentioned and then on official release day out comes all the reviews on the VP, probably held back from early release due to NDA's but if people watch many of the reviews, nearly all of them mention at some point the visual issues that some buyers of the VP are reporting.

Yes there will be bugs and issues because it's a first gen product but Apple should have at least done more extensive reporting on the visual issues of the VP, basically it's FOV, glare, smearing and vingretting and then allowed buyers to make an 'informed decision' on whether to buy it or not. The fact is they didn't and now some buyers are experiencing issues with it that should have been expressly highlighted during first time trials and first time reviews. Those complaining about their VP are right to do so because Apple have mislead them.

 

[macman01101]

This is totally false and misleading. It is the opposite of what you say.

The displays use foveated rendering which means only the small area is rendered where the user is looking is rendered in full resolution. In other words, only the area where you look is fully rendered. It has nothing to do with moving your head.

From the time light hits the outside camera lens to when the rendered image hits your eye is 12ms according to Apple.

By definition, this means everything rendered in your peripheral vision will not be at full resolution. It’s how our eyes actually work. However, it’s not as good as our eyes and it still can make things objectively blurry.

I’m not surprised either. You have the sweet spot and you have to make sure you position the headset correctly. Another thing people may not realize yet is that you have to move your head, instead of your eyes, with other headsets to stay in the sweet spot. Not sure about the AVP assume the same.

 

[macman01101]

This was an easy prediction by the price alone, way before it made it out to the public. Saw it coming a mile away. The vast majority had absolutely no intention of keeping it and just wanted to play with Apple’s shiny new creation for a couple weeks.

For some reason, people are expecting the views from virtual reality to be just like reality…

Most people were expecting it to be similar to the marketing and demos. It’s not, and not even close.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I am writing this from my Vision Pro right now. I lover this thing! Holy ****ing cow!

 

[laptech]

I don’t believe that. Unopened returns are still new.

You ned to check your consumer law because then you will see I am right. I've had 13 years of working in the world of consumer electronic manufacturing and thus know what I am talking about. Basically there are two different levels of 'New', 1) straight from the manufacturer to the warehouse to the customer, this commonly referred to as 'Brand New', not new but 'Brand New' as in the products have only been handled by the manufacturer, their supply chain (delivery company) and the store/warehouse designated to take delivery of the product ad then there is 2) 'New in the Box', which is a product that has been shipped to the end user, handled by the end user but the customer decided they did not want it and returned it to the store with the product seal(s) still in place.

As soon as the product is shipped from the store/warehouse to the end user it's status changes from 'Brand New' to 'used'. That is the law, consumer law. You will find the reason for this is to do with handling of the product. When products are made, the handling of the product comes under the policies and procedures of the manufacture and any 3rd party delivery companies they contract out to handle shipping of their products. These polices and procedures will dictate how employees and any 3rd party shipping companies are to handle the product. Specific quality standards are to be maintained throughout the handling of the product from the manufacturer to the store/shop/warehouse. No dents or scuff marks or any other kind of mark(s) are allowed on the products packaging/box. This maintains the quality level of the product those maintaining it's status as 'Brand New'.

Things all change once the product has been shipped to the store/shop/warehouse because the shipping of the product is then handed over to national carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, DPD, carriers like that) and the local postal service. Whilst these delivery services have their own level of quality handling standards, they are not at the same level as that expected by the manufacture, the manufacture is not able to control the quality of handling from the other delivery services and thus when the other deliver services handle the product, it can get tossed and turned, thrown about, dropped, knocked and others. Because the manufacture can no longer control the chain of handling quality, it's status from 'Brand New' changes to 'used' because someone out of direct/indirect control of the manufacture is now tasked with handling the product. So when UPS delivers the VP's to the buyers door, under consumer law that VP has now gone from 'Brand New' to 'used' and if the buyer was to send to VP back unused and still sealed in it's box, it's status becomes 'Used new in box' meaning it's being handled by the end user but returned still sealed in it's box.

This has been consumer law for years. This is has affected car dealerships for decades because as soon as a brand new production car leaves the dealership it instantly loses x amount of value meaning the dealer can no longer resale the car as 'Brand new' at the same price it was before it left the dealership because it is now classed as 'used'.

 

[gleepskip]

If the price were a fraction of what it is, people would be more willing to endure AVP's shortcomings. It doesn't replace anything in anyone's workflow; it creates a new one. How useful is a computer (they market it as one) that has a built-in usage limit because of physical effects on a person?

If I had returned my release-day iPhone, I would have had to go back to my Samsung flip-phone. iPhone had an immediate impact on users, even without a fast processor, retina display and App Store. The AVP doesn't share this quality. I go back to my amazing 32" Dell 4K display that has no time limit for productivity, much to the chagrin of my family some days.

 

[klasma]

You're wrong.

Tim Cook called it the next iPhone, the next iMac, the next iPod and the next iPad.

So no, it's not a prototype nor a tech exploration.

Why would you take Apple’s marketing speak and wishful thinking at face value? Look at what it is and judge on your own. “Apple said it so it must be true” is not a convincing argument.

 

[ThailandToo]

I am very curious on the glare, will you describe more in detail if you have a chance. Know you have been here for a while, so respect your opinion. Have used mine for 4-5 hours tonight, and have not noticed any glare issues so far. But maybe I am missing something as seems like popular issue so far.

I didn’t see it when I did the in-store demo. However, at home with my own AVP, it’s really bad and annoying.

However, everything else about it is amazing for content consumption. I can see gamers like it with a controller. My son says it would be like being right there in the game. I really think it’s the future. It’s just the technology isn’t there yet. When these get down to the size of eyeglasses, they’re going to be everything in our daily lives. I can think of so many great ways to develop apps and use this.

Not returning mine, but the glare is definitely there. I also wondered in the store they gave me a different light seal and wondering if I have the wrong size in my box. Would that cause the glare. I see it anytime there isn’t a lot of light either in the room or in the deepest levels of immersion.

 

[WilliamG]

I didn’t see it when I did the in-store demo. However, at home with my own AVP, it’s really bad and annoying.

However, everything else about it is amazing for content consumption. I can see gamers like it with a controller. My son says it would be like being right there in the game. I really think it’s the future. It’s just the technology isn’t there yet. When these get down to the size of eyeglasses, they’re going to be everything in our daily lives. I can think of so many great ways to develop apps and use this.

Not returning mine, but the glare is definitely there. I also wondered in the store they gave me a different light seal and wondering if I have the wrong size in my box. Would that cause the glare. I see it anytime there isn’t a lot of light either in the room or in the deepest levels of immersion.

It's already been established - the glare is nothing to do with outside light. Go into your closet, turn the light off, and you'll still see significant glare. It's the light coming off the OLED panels into the lenses.

 

[ThailandToo]

If the price were a fraction of what it is, people would be more willing to endure AVP's shortcomings. It doesn't replace anything in anyone's workflow; it creates a new one. How useful is a computer (they market it as one) that has a built-in usage limit because of physical effects on a person?

If I had returned my release-day iPhone, I would have had to go back to my Samsung flip-phone. iPhone had an immediate impact on users, even without a fast processor, retina display and App Store. The AVP doesn't share this quality. I go back to my amazing 32" Dell 4K display that has no time limit for productivity, much to the chagrin of my family some days.

I do agree at $1499 for 256GB/16GB RAM people would be in love. At $3899 + $400 for AppleCare + $400+ in taxes, it’s quite the investment.

 

[ThailandToo]

It's already been established - the glare is nothing to do with outside light. Go into your closet, turn the light off, and you'll still see significant glare. It's the light coming off the OLED panels into the lenses.

Not saying it has to do with outside light. The light on the panels that I am seeing. When there’s a lot of light there’s no glare. You’re getting it backwards. In a closet there would be the most glare for me if I don’t have an environment in full immersion.

It’s sort of like photography. In photography the more light available the greater an iPhone camera can compete against my Canon R5. Now you go to low light, you need a real camera to take great photos. Without holding your iPhone there for three seconds. 😂

 

[richard371]

I didn’t see it when I did the in-store demo. However, at home with my own AVP, it’s really bad and annoying.

However, everything else about it is amazing for content consumption. I can see gamers like it with a controller. My son says it would be like being right there in the game. I really think it’s the future. It’s just the technology isn’t there yet. When these get down to the size of eyeglasses, they’re going to be everything in our daily lives. I can think of so many great ways to develop apps and use this.

Not returning mine, but the glare is definitely there. I also wondered in the store they gave me a different light seal and wondering if I have the wrong size in my box. Would that cause the glare. I see it anytime there isn’t a lot of light either in the room or in the deepest levels of immersion.

If you press against the sides of you light seal does the glare disappear?

 

[nexx27]

Right off the bat, the most fascinating part of the Apple Vision Pro is how little (not at all) the early reviewers, - uh... "reviewers" mentioned its biggest flaw, which is - its phenomenal screens. These screens are amazing. But... but the issues, oh the issues.

1.) The screen glare. This is, as far as I'm aware, down to the type of lenses in the AVP, but the internal glare is absolutely horrendous. Every time you start an Apple Original, you get the glare right in your face with the Apple TV logo. Open up the prehistoric demo (which, by the way, really is incredible), and the opening credits glare right in your face - like a hall of mirrors of glare, right after the Apple TV logo glares in your face. It's worse than the Quest 3, which was already pretty bad with its pancake lenses. But you can forgive this kind of thing at $499 + tax. You can't forgive it at $3499 + tax. I put the AVP into Guest Mode, handed it to my wife (without my Zeiss lenses in), and her first complaint was about glare she noticed within 5 seconds, and the next complaint was about blurriness (the smearing) when moving her head. That pretty much sealed the deal (she had a good time demoing it, but would never keep it). I can't overstate how bad the glare is. It annoyed me while trying to watch part of a movie (which truly is a treat aside from the glare, and as long as you don't move your head much - see point 3.)

2.) The stock head band is a joke. It's there to look pretty in marketing material, but everyone knows the dual loop is much more supportive of the AVP's weight. Nobody looks at the dual loop and sees sexiness, though, but Apple knew they had to include it in the box. Sure, if you have hair (I don't), it's not great, but then quite frankly if you have hair you're pretty much doomed to either squish it or use the stock band and experience a squished face due to lack of top-of-head support.

3.) The smearing. I honestly have no idea why it's as bad as it is, but the smearing is horrific. You turn your head left and right and everything smears, whether in mixed reality or full on VR. What's most interesting is that the OLED panels are wonderfully responsive. If you drag a web page up and down without moving your head at all, it's all super sharp and readable - fantastic. This is perfect. If you move your head up and down, though? Yikes. As I have a Quest 3 right here with me, it's easy to go back and forth between the two, and the Quest 3 does not have any of this smearing.

4.) Color fringing. Yep, it's definitely there, especially obvious toward the edge of the frame.

5.) Low field of view. I don't have numbers, but it's obviously less than Quest 3, and you feel like you're really wearing a scuba mask. Note that none of the promotional materials show any of this field of view or color fringing.

6.) Speakers are leagues better than the Quest 3 ones, which shouldn't come as any surprise. Everyone seems to praise the Quest 3 speakers, but I've never understood the praise. They're serviceable, and that's about it. The AVP speakers are excellent for what they are, and Spatial Audio is a treat.

7.) Optic ID seems to be pretty broken if you wear Zeiss lenses. I only got it to work by squishing the AVP (with the thin light seal!) against my face while I set it up, and to unlock my AVP I have to squish it against my face every time. Apparently I'm not the only one with this issue.

8.) The battery cord is annoying in that it bunches up really easily, and requires finessing to loosen.

9.) Taking this thing off is such a relief in terms of head freedom. I'd much rather sit in front of my 27" or 32" display and work, than use the AVP.

10.) The whole packaging and setup experience is definitely top tier (minus Optic ID for Zeiss users).

Overall, this really is an incredible kinda-sorta tech demo. The screens, though, ultimately make or break the device, and in this case, due to the lenses and smearing it's an easy return to the store for me. If it didn't glare or smear, I'd almost certainly keep it, and how this made it through testing without someone saying, "WAIT WAIT!" is well beyond my ability to comprehend. There's so much good, though, that I can't wait for the next generation of Vision Pro. Not today, Apple. But perhaps soon. The future is there for the taking.

And with the same money you can get an Apple studio display for your mac ("rather sit in front of my 27 or 32 display")

Then you get a pymax crystal vr headset (the current "best in the league").... an RTX 4070 (nice gpu), connect to a PC and travel around the world with microsoft flight simulator in vr!!!!!

And even if you keep the 3500 usd headset, you can't "travel the world"..... hahaha, it's a joke headset...

Zuckerberg must be really happy because with all that VR hype, after vision pro release, he must be selling 499 quest 3 like hot cakes!

 

[nexx27]

And with the same money you can get an Apple studio display for your mac ("rather sit in front of my 27 or 32 display")

Then you get a pymax crystal vr headset (the current "best in the league").... an RTX 4070 (nice gpu), connect to a PC and travel around the world with microsoft flight simulator in vr!!!!!

And even if you keep the 3500 usd headset, you can't "travel the world"..... hahaha, it's a joke headset...

Zuckerberg must be really happy because with all that VR hype, after vision pro release, he must be selling 499 quest 3 like hot cakes!

Also people who are praising VISION PRO are totally missing the VR concept...

First, it's viewing angle is smaller than other headsets. Second people are praising the headset for like NBA app or using a mac with vision pro, but neither of those APP's really uses VR like it should. I mean to get access to space all around by moving head..

No racing games, no flight games, no games!! no google earth, no virtual piano apps no nothing.... If you compare the PC vr offering it's like light years ahead with many many software options and much better VR experience for much much much less money...

I think right now it's a toy that you can play like a week, or show to your friends, then send back or let 3500 getting dust in the corner of your desk... (and I'm an apple fan boy)

 

[nexx27]

Quest 3 it's in the right direction, much value for your money (499 usd). Hope that Quest 4 will be another step up (and I hate meta because of it's wrong attitude towards privacy)

 

[nexx27]

to be fair - apple has been marketing this thing as an AR device.

It's just VR with video pass thru creating these issues.

Considering current software not even VR, just glasses that either let you have a "larger screen" or multiple screens in an entire virtual space or your own view space. That's it..

And even that experience is flawled! for your hard earned 3500usd and at expense of 650g over your nose!

 

[rweed]

You're wrong.

Tim Cook called it the next iPhone, the next iMac, the next iPod and the next iPad.

So no, it's not a prototype nor a tech exploration.

Wow, the head salesman says it's great? Must be.

 

[gleepskip]

Wow, the head salesman says it's great? Must be.

When he hypes something this high, at a price this steep, you'd never think half the people (my own guess) would be returning it. If I'm spending $4,000 on anything but a car, house or jewelry (yikes), it better be near flawless.

 

[surferfb]

When he hypes something this high, at a price this steep, you'd never think half the people (my own guess) would be returning it. If I'm spending $4,000 on anything but a car, house or jewelry (yikes), it better be near flawless.

I’d advise you to stay away from the mechanical watch world 🤣

 

[sphark]

I'm leaning on returning it too. For $3500 I expected better FOV and comfort. I'm able to wear it for hours with the dual loop strap, but the FOV is pretty bad. Combine that with the lack of apps, and I'm not sold on it. Need gen 2 or 3. It's impressive though, and I think this will be the future when it's 1/2 the price, 1/2 the weight, and has larger FOV

 

[gleepskip]

I’d advise you to stay away from the mechanical watch world 🤣

No doubt. I don't own any jewelry more valuable than a wedding band. My wife, however... 😉

I don't have a taste for luxury jewelry or watches, fortunately.

 

[sjperformance]

I’d advise you to stay away from the mechanical watch world

My BLNR has been flawless since 2015.

 

[duffman9000]

Also people who are praising VISION PRO are totally missing the VR concept...

First, it's viewing angle is smaller than other headsets. Second people are praising the headset for like NBA app or using a mac with vision pro, but neither of those APP's really uses VR like it should. I mean to get access to space all around by moving head..

No racing games, no flight games, no games!! no google earth, no virtual piano apps no nothing.... If you compare the PC vr offering it's like light years ahead with many many software options and much better VR experience for much much much less money...

I think right now it's a toy that you can play like a week, or show to your friends, then send back or let 3500 getting dust in the corner of your desk... (and I'm an apple fan boy)

Before you say something doesn’t use “VR as it should” recall that VR, despite already being widely available for years, has not hit critical mass. Apple goes out of its way to not call this a VR headset. People just don’t want to accept that AVP will be something else.

 

[gleepskip]

Before you say something doesn’t use “VR as it should” recall that VR, despite already being widely available for years, has not hit critical mass. Apple goes out of its way to not call this a VR headset. People just don’t want to accept that AVP will be something else.

That aspect about Apple is very frustrating to me. The AVP is running iPadOS and has an M2 chip. This product has so much potential that I'm certain Apple will leave on the table. At Apple, the name of a product determines its capabilities, not its hardware.