Apple VP Referred for Criminal Contempt After 'Outright Lies' in Epic Games Ruling

[dannys1]

Why does Apple need to be guaranteed revenue? They sell a really expensive phone. They sell really expensive software, services, entertainment, etc.

Why do they HAVE to receive a tax on everything everyone else does? Because Steve Jobs came up with the phone, the corporation is perpetually entitled to tax us?

Maybe we should have other app stores, so Apple isn't forced to provide free apps?

Maybe websites should be allowed to serve/install apps, instead of being forced to use Apple's, since it's such a burden for them to allow free apps?

Or perhaps no one would want an Apple product if they couldn't access other peoples creations -- like Netflix, etc. maybe Apple isn't the main value if that's the case?

The whole thing is absurd. I've been using software on my Mac for decades without Apple getting a cut. But a phone, oh my, we better all protect Apples TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from independent developers thinking they deserve anything but a handout.

But you're forgetting this the same for every Android phone, Samsung, tablets, iPads, Smart TV app stores, Amazons Firesticks, Amazon Firetablets, SteamDeck, any device running SteamOS, Playstation, Nintendo Switch, Xbox, Microsoft store, the Meta Quest etc etc

Apple isn't going to change unless the entire industry changes with them, why should they have to do it differently if everyone else doesn't.

Valve set the example (ironically on Mac and PC) that everyone else followed - and trust me as a PC gamer multiple app stores are not a nice experience at all.

 

[dannys1]

You mention Steam, but the comparison isn't really the same because I don't need Steam to buy games on PC. If developers don't want to sell their game on Steam, then they sell on GOG or Epic. Or just on their website. I can even play on my non-Steam games on my Steam Deck. I can even install Windows on that thing.

You're right you can, but it's not a great experience either and it's not one many gamers choose on purpose. You even get game marketplace wars, which is ridiculous - imagine having your favourite digital store.

But it's horrible managing multiple stores and multiple games/apps installed from multiple stores.

IF the deal was that 3rd party stores were allowed however if you released an app it had to be on the Apple App Store as well (even if it was more expensive on the App Store) then i'd be ok with that, it would give people choice and the majority of us could just stick to having the native experience on our devices sync across multiple devices. Maybe that is the solution (although I doubt the courts would allow Apple to force companies to have to release on their own store as well and I don't know how Apple could enforce that apart from removing notarisation for an app perhaps)

 

[dannys1]

Eh, I'm fine with it. They make tens of billions of dollars doing absolutely nothing. Stop protecting multi-trillion dollar companies that don't care about what you think.

I'm a share holder.

And to say it's absolutely nothing is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the tens of other companies running digital app stores with a 30% cut (almost all of them) would also say the same.

 

[adrianlondon]

aahhhh.....If it isn't the cows starting to come home to roost.....

Flying cows!

 

[I7guy]

Since Apple spends time and money reviewing and hosting these apps, why would it be horrible? It'd be only fair, wouldn't it?


You can't just simply remove the hardware from the equation.

iPhone buyers "buy into" an operating system platform. They aren't going (and aren't free) to buy mobile apps elsewhere after having spent hundreds of dollars on a hardware purchase.

Also, Apple giving away access to their App Store for (almost) free played a big part in establishing their market position (duopoly with Google's Android) in the market for mobile operating systems.


I could imagine Spotify, Netflix & Co. being OK with selling their iOS app for $0.99, if it enabled them to conduct their own transactions independent from Apple's App Store.

The ctf will be introduced in the US.

 

[upthetoffees]

My opinion is that Epic Games are terrible and the world is a better place without them, I support Apple in any anti ‘epic’ “games” actions.

 

[playtech1]

Apple and Google are so big and control so much of the phone market that they will get singled out and have to do things that would be totally unreasonable for firms either not operating in a duopoly or in a sector of less significance to modern life. I think that fact renders a lot of the comparisons with, say, Walmart or Nintendo somewhat redundant.

Capitalism is great and all, but if a company is a gatekeeper to a vital service it's going to get legal and political attention.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Just appeal until you get a competent judge.

 

[Plerf]

I wonder if Apple had been reasonable—say, taking 10% as a “facilitation fee” instead of 27% which is almost no discount at all—they’d not be in this mess.

Probably not—Epic wants the literal whole cake, notwithstanding they only get rich because of the App Store.

Bad day for Apple.

Good day for 3n5h1ttification, though.

 

[d686546s]

You're right you can, but it's not a great experience either and it's not one many gamers choose on purpose. You even get game marketplace wars, which is ridiculous - imagine having your favourite digital store.

But it's horrible managing multiple stores and multiple games/apps installed from multiple stores.

Individual preference over having all games in one place, I would counter that the situation has given PC gamers quite a few upsides.

• The games I buy on Steam are generally cheaper compared to the games I buy on PS5. Even Sony's own games are cheaper on the PC than on their own platform.
• Plus the PC is currently the only platform where you have an option to buy digital games without DRM. That may or may not be important to you individually, but the option is there.
• And while it generally doesn't do physical games anymore, there's nothing stopping anyone from selling physical games either.

Compare that with consoles, where the absence of alternative digital stores will gradually erode consumer options. For now that's mitigated by just buying discs, but for how long this will remain an option is anyone's guess.

And regarding 'marketplace wars,' isn't this exactly what is happening with the exception that people fight tooth and nail that it should be the only one?

IF the deal was that 3rd party stores were allowed however if you released an app it had to be on the Apple App Store as well (even if it was more expensive on the App Store) then i'd be ok with that, it would give people choice and the majority of us could just stick to having the native experience on our devices sync across multiple devices. Maybe that is the solution (although I doubt the courts would allow Apple to force companies to have to release on their own store as well and I don't know how Apple could enforce that apart from removing notarisation for an app perhaps)

Leaving aside the legality of such an option, what justification other than your own preference and Apple's bottom line is there for forcing anyone to use the App Store.

Opposed to switching ecosystems with a significant upfront investment in hardware, apps are a good space where consumer choice can play out.

If your favourite app isn't available, then use another that is probably 95% the same.

 

[GMShadow]

A judge too stupid to understand how technology and business works got her fee-fees hurt and is ruling on emotion.

Remove her from the bench and disbar her. Absolutely unacceptable behavior.

 

[I7guy]

Apple and Google are so big and control so much of the phone market that they will get singled out and have to do things that would be totally unreasonable for firms either not operating in a duopoly or in a sector of less significance to modern life. I think that fact renders a lot of the comparisons with, say, Walmart or Nintendo somewhat redundant.

Capitalism is great and all, but if a company is a gatekeeper to a vital service it's going to get legal and political attention.

Apple is not a gatekeeper to vital services. That’s eu nonsense. If Apple went belly up would every other smartphone manufacturer cease to work. Or are android, Linux and other phones NOT gatekeepers.

 

[bluecoast]

I am kinda shocked at the amount of people still defending apple’s practices in this thread

I mean what would it take for those people to call apple out? If tim cook invaded a sovereign country perhaps?

A judge specialising in the tech industry has been absolutely scathing to Apple - when most legal judgements are dry and full of legalise.

Yet still some here are on Apple’s side. The mind boggles.

 

[playtech1]

Apple is not a gatekeeper to vital services. That’s eu nonsense. If Apple went belly up would every other smartphone manufacturer cease to work. Or are android, Linux and other phones NOT gatekeepers.

If Apple went bust then I'm sure the void would be filled, but that's not really the point at all.

While Apple is operating normally then it (together with Google) is controlling a platform relied upon by millions for day to day life.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

A judge too stupid to understand how technology and business works got her fee-fees hurt and is ruling on emotion.

Remove her from the bench and disbar her. Absolutely unacceptable behavior.

The phrase "fee-fees" is a bit immature when discussing perjury, don't you think?. It really doesn't matter anyway; an Apple employee lied under oath in a federal court and the reason why doesn't legally matter. That's a felony with up to five years imprisonment.

Wife is attorney and her advice to everyone is to never lie in court or to a judge, ever, under any circumstances. You will end up in prison if you do.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Bad Apple...

 

[I7guy]

If Apple went bust then I'm sure the void would be filled, but that's not really the point at all.

While Apple is operating normally then it (together with Google) is controlling a platform relied upon by millions for day to day life.

If by the platform you mean the ability to use a smart device, arm devices that are not specifically a phone factor with cellular modems and the like can perform the same functions. It’s not the phone that’s the gatekeeper it’s the underlying telecom infrastructure for which none of this can be done without it.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

A judge too stupid to understand how technology and business works got her fee-fees hurt and is ruling on emotion.

Remove her from the bench and disbar her. Absolutely unacceptable behavior.

Yeah, just like many others these days...a ruling doesn't go your way, blame the judge and disbar them.

 

[d686546s]

Probably not—Epic wants the literal whole cake, notwithstanding they only get rich because of the App Store.

I would have thought Unreal Engine powering a significant part of the video game industry and a series of quite successful games would have had something to do with that...

 

[AppliedMicro]

The ctf will be introduced in the US.

How?

I mean, the U.S. does not have external application stores (yet).
So will every app on Apple's App Store become subject to a "core" fee?

 

[pksv]

I am kinda shocked at the amount of people still defending apple’s practices in this thread

I mean what would it take for those people to call apple out? If tim cook invaded a sovereign country perhaps?

A judge specialising in the tech industry has been absolutely scathing to Apple - when most legal judgements are dry and full of legalise.

Yet still some here are on Apple’s side. The mind boggles.

Exactly. Absolutely mind boggling watching people siding with corpos whose primary goal is only and exclusively - profit. Every decision they make is only a derivative of that. Yet, people jump in to defend them. Impossible to understand.

 

[bcortens]

Exactly. It’s Apple’s platform, they have every right to have requirements for distributing on their platform… 👍🏻

This fawning over corporations is exactly why the right to own things, to repair things, is being degraded. You don't buy anything anymore, you just license or rent it.... this isn't progress.

 

[bcortens]

The ctf will be introduced in the US.

If it is introduced in the same way it was in Europe I expect it to fail in the same way it is failing in Europe. The only way a CTF has a chance of passing regulatory scrutiny is if Apple doesn't try and create one set of terms with the CTF and one set of terms without it. This would mean everyone that gets big enough would pay it regardless of how the app is monetized.

This could backfire, does Facebook really need to be an App? They could pull their apps entirely, so could Netflix, so could Spotify, etc...

These things could all be PWAs fairly easily...

 

[Plerf]

Exactly. Absolutely mind boggling watching people siding with corpos whose primary goal is only and exclusively - profit. Every decision they make is only a derivative of that. Yet, people jump in to defend them. Impossible to understand.

Applies to Epic-stans, too.

 

[bcortens]

If by the platform you mean the ability to use a smart device, arm devices that are not specifically a phone factor with cellular modems and the like can perform the same functions. It’s not the phone that’s the gatekeeper it’s the underlying telecom infrastructure for which none of this can be done without it.

You can't be this blind. Many services are starting to require 2-factor authentication with dedicated phone-apps just to log in, there are many jobs that are unavailable to people without smartphones because of these requirements. Phones are nearly essential in modern life, sure you can get by without them but the default assumption, even of governments, is that everyone has a smartphone these days...