Apple VP Referred for Criminal Contempt After 'Outright Lies' in Epic Games Ruling

[Plerf]

having thought about it, a reasonable Apple would:

-Offer a carve out at the small end to encourage small developers
-Take their cut in recognition of their contribution in a way that doesn’t force developers to hit a “negative cash flow cliff” (which is to say, you don’t get dinged for previous downloads when you hit the threshold)
-Diminish over time as the cost and effort to Apple is lower as they move towards a maintenance paradigm on existing apps
-Offer no advantage for being inside or outside the Apple payment system
-Make it clear that the taker of the payment assumes any liabilities involved with payment processing, refunds, etc

 

[pksv]

Applies to Epic-stans, too.

Like I said:

... corpos ...

 

[Plerf]

I would have thought Unreal Engine powering a significant part of the video game industry and a series of quite successful games would have had something to do with that...

I do not know how Epic does business on that front. On the “Epic application in the App Store front” I think my point is still valid.

 

[Fender2112]

You cannot just ignore court rulings against you and rely on endless appeals to block a decision.

You have a call on line 3. It's Donald Trump.

 

[Plerf]

Like I said:

Yeah. Not directed at people who get that this is just accountants and executives playing at lawfare over money via their lawyers.

 

[O and A]

It’s time for Tim Cook to resign.

He’s led Apple to this absolutely appalling state of affairs, completely messed up the transition to genai - which is the next big tech paradigm - and left Apple very overexposed in china, at a time of increasing tensions in that region.

Jobs always bought up the Wayne Gretzky quote about not skating to where the puck is but to where it’s going to be, as being his main driver in business.

And cook has spent so much of apple’s energy sticking to where the puck is - defending the teens era App Store, when its typical in business that you can only hold the first mover advantage for so long and then need to relinquish it, otherwise innovation is stifled.

And Apple should get innovating again imho - not trying to defend the status quo.

This is a laughable take. Tim Cook is one of the most successful CEOs of all time in all of business. Leading the largest most successful company in history.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is a laughable take. Tim Cook is one of the most successful CEOs of all time in all of business. Leading the largest most successful company in history.

That does not mean "keeps job forever"

 

[albebaubles]

There needs to be some kind of rule where by it's fine to use third party payment links without Apple taking a fee however you can't host a free app in the store and the ONLY way to active its features is via a third party payment link.

Nope, allow side loading -- problem solved.

 

[albebaubles]

Again? 🫠

So far he's damaged Apple stock more than anything else and he put the company in an actually really bad position vs competitors like Samsung. Apple had to face a lot more tariffs from Vietnam, India and China, than South Korea.

Now they've gained exemption on a couple of things, luckily, otherwise they were going downhill for sure.

Exempted the iPhone from Tariffs, for now...

 

[Devyn89]

I’m glad a judge is holding the powerful accountable, especially in this political climate. Shame on Apple for knowingly lying under oath.

 

[StuBeck]

I'm a share holder.

And to say it's absolutely nothing is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the tens of other companies running digital app stores with a 30% cut (almost all of them) would also say the same.

Being an activist share holder doesn't change your thoughts on this. I'm a shareholder, too, and I'd be more concerned with their criminals than trying to ban free apps with poor anaologies.

Its a 99% profit center with little input required, that was my point. Fixing a problem that doesn't exist isn't going to make you more money either.

 

[contacos]

All things considered I am surprised Apple was only really sentenced to pay the legal fees and didn't book his ass

 

[I7guy]

You can't be this blind. Many services are starting to require 2-factor authentication with dedicated phone-apps just to log in, there are many jobs that are unavailable to people without smartphones because of these requirements. Phones are nearly essential in modern life, sure you can get by without them but the default assumption, even of governments, is that everyone has a smartphone these days...

Name one major critical service to society that can’t be accessed if you don’t have an iPhone or other android device.

if a job requirement is an smartphone most employers will provide one. But for the typical person Apple is not a gatekeeper.

 

[bluecoast]

This is a laughable take. Tim Cook is one of the most successful CEOs of all time in all of business. Leading the largest most successful company in history.

Right. He’s lost a key case and one of his reports but one has lied under oath. And as they (edit) didn’t correct it, are you telling me that’s ok or an honest mistake ?

He was great at steadying he ship and iterating on the product plan that jobs would’ve left. However as time has gone on I don’t think he’s the right person to lead Apple forward.

 

[I7guy]

If it is introduced in the same way it was in Europe I expect it to fail in the same way it is failing in Europe. The only way a CTF has a chance of passing regulatory scrutiny is if Apple doesn't try and create one set of terms with the CTF and one set of terms without it. This would mean everyone that gets big enough would pay it regardless of how the app is monetized.

This could backfire, does Facebook really need to be an App? They could pull their apps entirely, so could Netflix, so could Spotify, etc...

These things could all be PWAs fairly easily...

Sure, I agree. Some providers of digital content have multiple delivery paths. As it is for example I access Facebook on my iPhone using safari. I heard the app was a battery hog.

 

[Chungry]

given the legal climate and precedent here, the appeal is not doing anything but stalling for time. Sure, it's due diligence for shareholders but this is done and dusted. Apple's petulant, malicious compliance is entirely to blame. How is it that Apple, seeing Epic being a bunch of idiots, said hold my beer I can sink just as low if not lower? Incredibly awful look for the company as they struggle around the world with regulation they could have gotten in front of. They only have themselves to blame for ALL OF THIS

 

[bluecoast]

having thought about it, a reasonable Apple would:

-Offer a carve out at the small end to encourage small developers
-Take their cut in recognition of their contribution in a way that doesn’t force developers to hit a “negative cash flow cliff” (which is to say, you don’t get dinged for previous downloads when you hit the threshold)
-Diminish over time as the cost and effort to Apple is lower as they move towards a maintenance paradigm on existing apps
-Offer no advantage for being inside or outside the Apple payment system
-Make it clear that the taker of the payment assumes any liabilities involved with payment processing, refunds, etc

That’s definitely reasonable and the position that apple should’ve been in 5 years or so ago.

If you’re a developer now you are probably developing for iOS not because you want to but because you have to, due to the install base - and hey, because people love their iPhones (all credit to Apple for that).

But in general, this is not a great place for Apple to be in re developer relations.

As soon as Apple needs some help they’ll find they have next to no friends.

The lack of support from devs for the Vision Pro should’ve been a warning sign as to how little anyone is now prepared to help them.

 

[I7guy]

That does not mean "keeps job forever"

Nor does it mean he should be fired when Macrumors posters say so. Nobody keeps a job forever; we dont live forever. There is a plan in place, TC said so.

 

[I7guy]

given the legal climate and precedent here, the appeal is not doing anything but stalling for time. Sure, it's due diligence for shareholders but this is done and dusted. Apple's petulant, malicious compliance is entirely to blame. How is it that Apple, seeing Epic being a bunch of idiots, said hold my beer I can sink just as low if not lower? Incredibly awful look for the company as they struggle around the world with regulation they could have gotten in front of. They only have themselves to blame for ALL OF THIS

Epic or Apple? Cause it sure seems epic screwed up as all of the revenue it lost.

 

[Chungry]

That’s definitely reasonable and the position that apple should’ve been in 5 years or so ago.

If you’re a developer now you are probably developing for iOS not because you want to but because you have to, due to the install base - and hey, because people love their iPhones (all credit to Apple for that).

But in general, this is not a great place for Apple to be in re developer relations.

As soon as Apple needs some help they’ll find they have next to no friends.

The lack of support from devs for the Vision Pro should’ve been a warning sign as to how little anyone is now prepared to help them.

I've been saying this for years. So have many devs, Marco and company on the ATP Podcast have said this for a decade.

It's like the lying under oath thing: Apple is so clearly delusional they think they can will what they want into reality and it's all George Costanza after that:
'its not a lie if you believe it"

I fully expect if the criminal bit goes forward this will be Apple's defense. Time for an exec shakeup, because shiller is coming off as the only person with any moral backbone.

Apple is going to do massive reputational harm to their brand here. I've said this for years now. And as a stockholder this is not what I want.

 

[Chungry]

Epic or Apple? Cause it sure seems epic screwed up as all of the revenue it lost.

Nice straw man. Don't be dense you know what I meant.

 

[UliBaer]

Wow, this was long time overdue! 👍

 

[I7guy]

Nice straw man. Don't be dense you know what I meant.

I know what you wrote but imo it was so obtuse it could be interpreted as I did. I totally agree with Apple that they are going down with the ship with respect to fees and commissions.

But epic wants back into the App Store and now they want to play “Monte Hall”*

*for those who get the reference

 

[klasma]

Correct, they have the developer fee.

What I’m saying though with this ruling is that to get around Apple's 30% cut, a developer could release a free app and provide a 3rd-party payment link as the only way to unlock the features, which, according to this ruling, Apple is not allowed to take any commission for anymore. Suddenly, they have a sale with no fee to Apple whatsoever.

Thus circumventing Apple's 30% (or 15%) fee.

I think that's exactly the point of the ruling. Apple has no claim to a proportional share of an app's revenue. They could instead impose a flat fee for use of the App Store service, proportional to Apple's actual costs of maintaining the App Store.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Name one major critical service to society that can’t be accessed if you don’t have an iPhone or other android device.

Banking and payments.

Public transit has at least become quite inconvenient to access without staffed stations and lack of machines that provide timetable/connection information (where I live).

Oh, and of course personal messaging apps.