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macos works fine with official app store AND unofficial
It's not going to do that until Steam, Microsoft, Playstation, Nintendo, Google, Amazon, Meta Quest etc do that with their digital stores, why should they?
All mentioned by you allow installing and loading up an app/game without it's official app store.
Devs/users do not have that choice on iOS.
 
Even if the employer provides one that still means that Apple/Google is a gatekeeper for those jobs.

Most critical services don't require a smartphone, however they are easier and more convenient if you do. The ability to use apps to smartphones can make a lot of aspects of life (public transit for instance) more convenient, it is easier to use a banking app to pay bills than the same on a website.

Are there alternatives? Yes, however the ubiquity of smartphones has made their presence the default assumption. No one assumes you don't have one anymore, they just ask which platform. Android or iPhone. That is the question, not, do you have one.
I think that’s the answer. A popular platform doesn’t mean it’s a gatekeeper. And because something’s not designated a smartphone doesn’t mean it’s not capable of running apps. Heck my flip phone in the 1990s ran VZ navigator.
 
Banking and payments.

Public transit has at least become quite inconvenient to access without staffed stations and lack of machines that provide timetable/connection information (where I live).

Oh, and of course personal messaging apps.
Come on now. You can physically walk into a bank and pay with cards and checks. I don’t recall a time where I had to use my phone for an actual payment. It’s either cards or checks or cash.
 
Come on now. You can physically walk into a bank and pay with cards and checks.
I live in Europe.
Checks aren't "a thing" here.

We don't have as antiquated banking systems as the U.S. (and that's in no small part thanks to E.U. regulation).$

I don’t recall a time where I had to use my phone for an actual payment.
Online payment transactions normally require two-factor authentication.
Which is (mostly) provided through apps.
 
I live in Europe.
Checks aren't "a thing" here.

We don't have as antiquated banking systems as the U.S. (and that's in no small part thanks to E.U. regulation).
So you absolutely cannot do any form of banking or pay for anything without a phone? And this is Apple’s problem how?
 
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So you absolutely cannot do any form of banking or pay for anything without a phone? And this is Apple’s problem how?
It's not entirely, but Apple, and Google, worked very hard to take as much of the mobile market as they could, using things like free App hosting and code signing. They wanted the world to move onto their platforms, they wanted everything to be an App. Customers loved it too, so did developers for a time. As apple and google got bigger and bigger their power grew and at this point in time Apple and Google have such outsized share of power that developers have no negotiating power on their own. The only entities left that can really ensure there is competition and fair market access are governments because they are the only entities left with the power to really stand up to Apple and Google.
 
I am kinda shocked at the amount of people still defending apple’s practices in this thread

I mean what would it take for those people to call apple out? If tim cook invaded a sovereign country perhaps?

A judge specialising in the tech industry has been absolutely scathing to Apple - when most legal judgements are dry and full of legalise.

Yet still some here are on Apple’s side. The mind boggles.
Apple has a die hard cult following, that’s why.
 
It's not entirely, but Apple, and Google, worked very hard to take as much of the mobile market as they could, using things like free App hosting and code signing. They wanted the world to move onto their platforms, they wanted everything to be an App. Customers loved it too, so did developers for a time. As apple and google got bigger and bigger their power grew and at this point in time Apple and Google have such outsized share of power that developers have no negotiating power on their own. The only entities left that can really ensure there is competition and fair market access are governments because they are the only entities left with the power to really stand up to Apple and Google.
How is it Apple or Google’s fault you all cannot do any form of physical payments? I mean what it digital warfare happens or both companies stop making phones. You all literally cannot make any payments in person?
 
It's not entirely, but Apple, and Google, worked very hard to take as much of the mobile market as they could, using things like free App hosting and code signing. They wanted the world to move onto their platforms, they wanted everything to be an App. Customers loved it too, so did developers for a time. As apple and google got bigger and bigger their power grew and at this point in time Apple and Google have such outsized share of power that developers have no negotiating power on their own. The only entities left that can really ensure there is competition and fair market access are governments because they are the only entities left with the power to really stand up to Apple and Google.
As I keep saying, popularity is a curse. The DMA is a bunch of needle threading nonsense designed to target American tech.
 
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So you absolutely cannot do any form of banking or pay for anything without a phone?
Sure I could.
Just as I could "survive" without having access to electricity or internet.
It just "sucks" and would be a bad experience and waste of time, energy and resources.

And this is Apple’s problem how?
Smartphones provide convenience and great utility to both (3rd party) businesses and consumers.
There's only a limited choice of ecosystems - operating systems and application stores - that they've (businesses and consumers) converged on.

And I, the government and society expect their providers to have fair and reasonable terms of service and competitive pricing. And allow for competition on related markets and services.

If not, government will - and should - make rules and rulings to ensure that.
That is Apple's problem. More precisely: Their unwillingness to (non-maliciously) comply with these rules and rulings.
 
How is it Apple or Google’s fault you all cannot do any form of physical payments? I mean what it digital warfare happens or both companies stop making phones. You all literally cannot make any payments in person?
That wasn't my point.
My point is that in a society in which a huge amount of commerce has moved on-line and smartphones (and their makers) have pushed to become staples of everyday life it is not unreasonable that they be regulated in a way that ensure that there is fair market access.
 
That wasn't my point.
My point is that in a society in which a huge amount of commerce has moved on-line and smartphones (and their makers) have pushed to become staples of everyday life it is not unreasonable that they be regulated in a way that ensure that there is fair market access.
Except the DMA is not fair. I agree with fair, but that’s not what the DMA is. The DMA is unfair.

Now with regard to the ruling and all of the hubris in these forums. We will see where it goes. But Apple lost the anti-steering provision.
 
If governments decide that something is so essential to daily life that companies can't be let to their own devices, then it becomes those companies' problem.
Except that no matter how it is sliced it Apple disappeared tomorrow life would go on without missing a beat. That’s not the definition of essential. I’d argue convenient but not essential.
 
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That wasn't my point.
My point is that in a society in which a huge amount of commerce has moved on-line and smartphones (and their makers) have pushed to become staples of everyday life it is not unreasonable that they be regulated in a way that ensure that there is fair market access.
And my point was Apple and Google are not REQUIRED for banking and payments.
 
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macos works fine with official app store AND unofficial

All mentioned by you allow installing and loading up an app/game without it's official app store.
Devs/users do not have that choice on iOS.

Eh? No they don't..


Nintendo Switch
Microsoft Xbox
Sony Playstation
Meta Quest
SteamOS
LG's WebOS
All Smart TVs
Roku devices
Kindle
Tesla's Infotainment System

Even Samsung have been clamping down on anything outside of their own store and Google Play on their phones - according to Epic it's a 21 step to install their store so they're making it harder not easier on the so called "open platform"
 
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And my point was Apple and Google are not REQUIRED for banking and payments.
So? At some level electricity is not required, but only extreme (usually USA) libertarians would actually argue that electric utilities should be allowed to charge whatever they want.

Are we at the same point with smartphones and the web? Probably not yet, but I can see a day in the near future where it is kind of assumed that in a well developed society that smartphones are available to all and that they are regulated to ensure that competition on them is free and fair.
 
They decided to charge 27 percent earlier rather than later, but the decision was not final until Jan 2024? No, upon reading the Gruber piece which reports a few QA exchanges, he said "we had no idea until Jan 2024". So, he may be in more than a bit of doo-doo. "A bit of doo-doo, I must say, is the smallest amount of doo-doo for which you must pay". 🍸🙀
 
If by the platform you mean the ability to use a smart device, arm devices that are not specifically a phone factor with cellular modems and the like can perform the same functions. It’s not the phone that’s the gatekeeper it’s the underlying telecom infrastructure for which none of this can be done without it.
I mean a tin can and string can perform the same function as a telephone, or indeed a PC connected to the internet, but in reality people use iOS and Android so they are in practice gatekeepers. The theoretical availability of alternatives or that they in turn rely on other technologies doesn't change that.
 
Did Alex Roman think he wouldn't get caught? Lying on the stand is a serious offense. The judge seems fairly pissed.
More than fairly pissed — this is about as harsh as you’ll ever see in a case like this, and the criminal referral is a very big deal. Apart from Roman, Apple’s lawyers should be very worried. They have an absolute ethical obligation to correct the record if their witness lies under oath. If they failed to do that, they could be looking at sanctions or worse.
 
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