Apple Warns Proposed UK Law Could 'Secretly Veto' Global User Protections

[zoomp]

Well... I lived in London and it was terrifying the amount of CCTV they have all around. No blind spot. No guns allowed. Police use odd and dangerous tactics against "democratic" demonstrations.

Ohhh... well... it's a "republic" run by a King. I wonder why they need so much control over the people.

 

[Ctrlos]

For generations the UK has suffered numerous terrorists acts by the IRA and still do to this day as well as terrorists acts by other groups and thus the UK government will do what is necessary to protect it's citizens. Apple and other manufacturers think they are doing everyone a favor by beefing up security in their devices but when that security is used to help cause death and destruction, governments and security services/authorities will act whether we like it or not.

2005 was the last major attack by a pluralised group in the UK. Everything since has been loners.

If smartphones didn't exist these groups would still find a way to communicate. They did before phones even existed.

"Because a man who'd trade his liberty for a safe and dreamless sleep
Doesn't deserve the both of them, and neither shall he keep."

 

[Ctrlos]

No guns allowed.

Number of high school shootings in the UK in the 21st Century: Zero.

 

[ric22]

Well... I lived in London and it was terrifying the amount of CCTV they have all around. No blind spot. No guns allowed. Police use odd and dangerous tactics against "democratic" demonstrations.

Ohhh... well... it's a "republic" run by a King. I wonder why they need so much control over the people.

Did you just put "no guns allowed" on a list of scary things?

 

[cupcakes2000]

it's a "republic" run by a King

Wut

 

[ric22]

For what it's worth, guns aren't blanket "banned" in the UK, but they're tightly controlled. You can fire guns in the UK, registered legally. You certainly can't be wandering around the streets of London with them, though...

 

[cupcakes2000]

For what it's worth, guns aren't blanket "banned" in the UK, but they're tightly controlled. You can fire guns in the UK, registered legally. You certainly can't be wandering around the streets of London with them, though...

Disregarding the above poster, and thankfully what you say is true. There is a big knife problem on the streets though

 

[SmugMaverick]

This Tory government is out of touch and out of control.

If you think this is bad legislation, just read the UK news.

The sooner they're out the better.


I think you're trying out a joke there.
Sorry if I fail to understand it.

This x10000

Good riddance to the bunch of crooks.

Pull out of the UK. Problem solved. Enough of the stupidity of the UK government.

Lots of people saying this on here but the issue Apple has is the UK spends more on Apple products than any other European country.

The UK market is MASSIVE for them, we have a lot of sheep who think iPhone = rich but thankfully WhatsApp is still more important.

 

[SmugMaverick]

I can see a dumbed down iOS version just for the UK.

So just the usual iOS then?

 

[zakarhino]

No, it is Apple twisting the words of the UK government. Read this part of the article and tell me that Apple has not already done this for China's CCP, had iOS changed/modified to suit that of the CCP with no notice, no review and no appeals process. Apple is being very hypocritical here towards the UK government.

Ok, let's review.

🇨🇳 China's policy for Apple was to host all iCloud infrastructure in China on servers owned and operated by the Chinese government. This would also mean hosting iCloud decryption keys in China as decryption keys are part of the total iCloud package. The same keys Apple have access to for everyone else's data (without ADP, we'll get to that) which by extension means the US government has access to it via secret court orders and 'covert' surveillance programs that Apple pretends not to know about. Yes, that includes data on everyone outside of the US too because only China (as far as I know) have a policy where THEY control the encryption keys for THEIR populace.

China's decision was motivated by having the ability to legally request data on Chinese users via China's legal system rather than having to go through the USA's legal system first. If you think this is unacceptable ask yourself if we as Americans or Brits should have to go through the Chinese court system to get data on American or British criminals using TikTok to sell drugs for example. In fact we've been bashing Bytedance over the head trying to go EVEN FURTHER than China by demanding TikTok be partially or fully owned by a PRIVATE American company (Oracle), not even the state.

They also take the intelligent position that data generated or uploaded by Chinese people belongs to the Chinese people, and by extension the state, rather than whatever company is offering the service. We don't do that in the West because our standard model treats the service provider as the owner of the data (read the EULAs of basically any online service you can think of). This is important, along with the Great Firewall, in preventing foreign interference in their populace. If you're a rising world power on the verge of fully eclipsing the incumbent powers you would of course be wary of those same powers trying to sabotage you.

Does the average American know that TikTok data is already required to be hosted in America with strict surveillance and rules regarding what can get sent back to China? Most Americans don't see that as scary, in fact we think it's good. What makes you righteous in your opinion on US TikTok data policies but the same doesn't apply to Chinese people's opinion on Apple's data policies in China? Why are you so sure Chinese people aren't just as concerned about the US interfering with their population via control of digital platforms (Apple/Google/YouTube) in the same way you're concerned about TikTok? What makes you think Chinese people distrust their government? Is it because you don't trust yours?

I for one think western countries should have stronger data protections to prevent foreign entities with selfish political motivations from sabotaging you. Look at Europe, they are almost entirely reliant on US owned and operated software. They're hopeless.

Now here's the part that's going to frustrate people: Advanced Data Protection is available for Chinese iCloud users according to both Craig Federighi and the Chinese iCloud terms of service which means they are entitled to the same E2EE features as everyone else. Yes, that means Chinese people in China can delete their encryption keys from Apple servers in China which by extension means the Chinese government can't get access to their data through some scary Gulag backdoor or whatever we're supposed to scared of on behalf of the Chinese people.

🇬🇧 The UK wants to ban End to End Encryption, that has been their stated end goal for years. This would mean no Advanced Data Protection for UK citizens. Nobody in the UK that actually understands this policy wants it. So no, equating what the UK is doing with what China is a stretch.

If the UK get their way, the average Chinese citizen will have more encryption features available to them than the average UK citizen. I'd like to see how the BBC and NYT navigate their way around that.

 

[arkitect]

Be sarcastic all you want but threats of all kinds upon UK citizens are real and the UK government is obligated to act. If electronic device manufactures keep beefing up security of their devices which allow the nefarious and undesirables to do what they do with impunity then it stands to reason that security authorities will ask their government to step in an act.

You and others may disagree with what the UK government is doing but I have now doubt if you was to go out onto the UK streets and ask members of the general public what they think, you would not like their answers.

Oh dear, you mean the "silent majority"?

*sigh*

 

[darkpaw]

One can only hope that the coming GE will see the present governing party decimated & the new Government will drop these proposed laws.

I doubt it. Labour MPs and Keir Starmer keep railing against the Rwanda Bill, but it just passed a reading in the House of Lords because Labour peers wouldn't agree with an amendment from the Lib Dems. Labour have not said they would remove any policy previously introduced by the Tories. Get rid of the poverty-causing 2-child benefit cap? Starmer agrees with it.

Labour in power will be just as terrible as the current Tories.

 

[ric22]

Disregarding the above poster, and thankfully what you say is true. There is a big knife problem on the streets though

There is a terrible knife problem, with pitiful sentencing.

 

[MrSkoTA]

Apple Defence Force, unlike the EU legislation (which is basically just trying to make iOS more like MacOS) this is what too much meddling by a state in the tech sector actually look like.

EU is breaking security as well. It will break screen time parental rights which puts children at risk.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Labour in power will be just as terrible as the current Tories.

That’s definitely highly highly unlikely. They’re not a Labour Party that I really like at the moment. But they’re still a far cry from tories, even more so these particular tories of the past several years.

 

[crees!]

Apple needs to get some teeth. Just pull the features and then put out a marketing campaign against it

 

[ke-iron]

Ok, let's review.

🇨🇳 China's policy for Apple was to host all iCloud infrastructure in China on servers owned and operated by the Chinese government. This would also mean hosting iCloud decryption keys in China as decryption keys are part of the total iCloud package. The same keys Apple have access to for everyone else's data (without ADP, we'll get to that) which by extension means the US government has access to it via secret court orders and 'covert' surveillance programs that Apple pretends not to know about. Yes, that includes data on everyone outside of the US too because only China (as far as I know) have a policy where THEY control the encryption keys for THEIR populace.

China's decision was motivated by having the ability to legally request data on Chinese users via China's legal system rather than having to go through the USA's legal system first. If you think this is unacceptable ask yourself if we as Americans or Brits should have to go through the Chinese court system to get data on American or British criminals using TikTok to sell drugs for example. In fact we've been bashing Bytedance over the head trying to go EVEN FURTHER than China by demanding TikTok be partially or fully owned by a PRIVATE American company (Oracle), not even the state.

They also take the intelligent position that data generated or uploaded by Chinese people belongs to the Chinese people, and by extension the state, rather than whatever company is offering the service. We don't do that in the West because our standard model treats the service provider as the owner of the data (read the EULAs of basically any online service you can think of). This is important, along with the Great Firewall, in preventing foreign interference in their populace. If you're a rising world power on the verge of fully eclipsing the incumbent powers you would of course be wary of those same powers trying to sabotage you.

Does the average American know that TikTok data is already required to be hosted in America with strict surveillance and rules regarding what can get sent back to China? Most Americans don't see that as scary, in fact we think it's good. What makes you righteous in your opinion on US TikTok data policies but the same doesn't apply to Chinese people's opinion on Apple's data policies in China? Why are you so sure Chinese people aren't just as concerned about the US interfering with their population via control of digital platforms (Apple/Google/YouTube) in the same way you're concerned about TikTok? What makes you think Chinese people distrust their government? Is it because you don't trust yours?

I for one think western countries should have stronger data protections to prevent foreign entities with selfish political motivations from sabotaging you. Look at Europe, they are almost entirely reliant on US owned and operated software. They're hopeless.

Now here's the part that's going to frustrate people: Advanced Data Protection is available for Chinese iCloud users according to both Craig Federighi and the Chinese iCloud terms of service which means they are entitled to the same E2EE features as everyone else. Yes, that means Chinese people in China can delete their encryption keys from Apple servers in China which by extension means the Chinese government can't get access to their data through some scary Gulag backdoor or whatever we're supposed to scared of on behalf of the Chinese people.

🇬🇧 The UK wants to ban End to End Encryption, that has been their stated end goal for years. This would mean no Advanced Data Protection for UK citizens. Nobody in the UK that actually understands this policy wants it. So no, equating what the UK is doing with what China is a stretch.

If the UK get their way, the average Chinese citizen will have more encryption features available to them than the average UK citizen. I'd like to see how the BBC and NYT navigate their way around that.

Really great explanation!

 

[Motorola68000]

Not a good idea to turn the thread into a political arena Conservatives v Labour, as no doubt all parties will want a backdoor into Apple. This is why the EU are on the same path.

Whatever Political Parties, the EU and the UK are simply about having access to all of your data. They will use any excuse to do it.

They only data they want to protect is about themselves.

Its very dangerous when governments and the EU, who from my experience have very very limited understanding of technology, get on their platforms from a position of privilege to chip away at privacy of the individual.

 

[iPay]

I'm in the UK. The government of any state telling a software company they cannot push out an update to their OS is an overreach of state powers. If the government themselves are worried about their own devices becoming compromised then they should issue MPs with dumbphones and only communicate sensitive information via localised VPN in the same way the Ministry of Defence do.

Also, they have terrible cheese.

 

[jarman92]

What they're asking for in effect is the same as China did and has got in spades: A specific and far-reaching exemption to the rule.

What are you even talking about? You’re twisting this story into knots to try to criticize Apple and failing miserably. Apple has never provided China with veto power over global security updates. That’s what the UK is threatening to do here. It has nothing to do with an “exemption” to any “rule.”

There are valid arguments to be made that Apple is too deferential to China, but yours is nonsensical.

 

[Supercyborgninja]

Worry so much for my British friends. They’re in a similar circumstance as us, two parties which are the same thing.

Albeit they do have more of a headway on 3rd party / Independence than us.

 

[jarman92]

Also, they have terrible cheese.

Terrible food in general, really.

 

[Ctrlos]

EU is breaking security as well. It will break screen time parental rights which puts children at risk.

I must admit I did not know about the screen time breakages.

 

[cosmichobo]

Democracy, the way it is often run, seems to be a system where people who lack the basic understanding of how something works make decisions on how it should work.

It's a terribly stupid system, but the alternatives are even worse.

Democracy in and of itself is not the issue.... it's party politics that's the issue. The major parties - be that in the UK, US, AU - are almost always full of people who have no life experience. They get elected, and follow the party lines, decided as you say by people who don't know or understand, and who wont listen to the experts that tell them exactly what they ask them to investigate and report on...

Remove the party from politics and you have a better chance... but a wild parliament.

 

[ric22]

Terrible food in general, really.

Slam British food in general all you like, but the cheese is excellent!! Where has a better variety of cheese? Only France is on par.