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webkit

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2021
2,918
2,527
United States
Ok dude, you win. You obviously can't read or you'd have already read the contract and TOS and found out you were flat wrong.
The "MSRP" on what you posted is there because they're preorders and the final price isn't set, yet.
The discussion was about whether a store can change the price of a product, period. They cannot. As you said, they can work with the product creator to change the price or the creator can increase the price of the product and the store cannot countermand it. Try selling something, you'll find that out. Stores only control the pricing of their own products. In the cast of Walmart, Equate. Otherwise they have a contract with whoever is using them to resell their product, just like you would contract with the App Store or Amazon, to display said product at a set price and they either get a cut of sales or charge you a monthly fee for shelf space. Walmart doesn't care about pricing of Frito Lay products as long as they get their monthly shelf fee. Sales of Fritos aren't their problem or concern. The App Store doesn't care about the pricing of your app as long as they get their cut of sales where applicable. In both cases that's a level of control they don't want or need and opens them up for liability if and when someone disagrees with the pricing.

You are clearly ignorant (or intentionally lying) about MSRPs and other things that have been discussed here. No, those were NOT estimated prices and it's absurd for you to (claim to) think they were. Those were clearly set MSRPs being announced by Sony. They exactly match the prices now found on Sony's product pages. Of course, as I have repeatedly stated, what retailers choose to sell them for can vary as those retailers (like retailers of so many different products) absolutely can have control over the pricing of products they sell.

It is unbelievable that you would actually think that MSRPs only apply to automobiles. Wow!

There's no point in continuing this discussion if you are that ignorant about the topics, or at least pretending to be for whatever reason.
 
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OneBar

Suspended
Dec 2, 2022
575
2,001
You are clearly ignorant (or intentionally lying) about MSRPs and other things that have been discussed here. No, those were NOT estimated prices and it's absurd for you to (claim to) think they were. Those were clearly set MSRPs being announced by Sony. They exactly match the prices now found on Sony's product pages. Of course, as I have repeatedly stated, what retailers choose to sell them for can vary as those retailers (like retailers of so many different products) absolutely can have control over the pricing of products they sell.

It is unbelievable that you would actually think that MSRPs only apply to automobiles. Wow!

There's no point in continuing this discussion if you are that ignorant about the topics, or at least pretending to be for whatever reason.
But if I claim you are ignorant or disingenuous, which you are and have been, I'm the one at fault. Go on with yourself, this is dumb. Everything I've stated can be independently verified, you just refuse to be wrong.
 

NervousFish2

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2014
338
632
You defined a marketplace as "a place where other companies sell THEIR commodities, and [a company] takes a service fee "cut" for each sale." Obviously thousand of private marketplaces exist. I sell through them all the time.
Friend, you are being more than dishonest here. I did NOT define a market place as where a company takes a cut. You inserted words there, in complete violation of my point. It is disingenuous.

What I am seeing in this whole exchange is you wanting to die on this hill of defending Apple from the accusation of being a monopoly. And fair enough. Perhaps in the end the courts will agree with you (tho I doubt it). But it is unacceptable for you to put words in my mouth.

I thought perhaps you were accidentally missing the forest for the trees, but now I think the error is intentional. What we are all interested in here in this exchange is the classic "cartel"-behavioral definition of a monopoly. I reiterate my point, functionally Apple does have "sole power to set pricing" for apps. Perhaps you would respond that Apple having the "sole power" to set app pricing but not actually fully using that "sole power" is somehow an exculpatory point. But from a governance perspective, it is not. Apple does partially use its power. And to great benefit. It is not some selfless regulator in its own private market. It leverages its power to great personal gain, and often at the expense of consumers and developers alike. That's why they are in trouble here.

A thousand private marketplaces may exist. That's a truism. They do exist. In software and, perhaps, things like the livestock and commodities. But they are infinitely less common than public markets. Both kinds are regulated, but the latter kind is far less susceptible to cartel behavior.
 
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Crowbot

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2018
1,720
3,947
NYC
Friend, you are being more than dishonest here. I did NOT define a market place as where a company takes a cut. You inserted words there, in complete violation of my point. It is disingenuous.

What I am seeing in this whole exchange is you wanting to die on this hill of defending Apple from the accusation of being a monopoly. And fair enough. Perhaps in the end the courts will agree with you (tho I doubt it). But it is unacceptable for you to put words in my mouth.

I thought perhaps you were accidentally missing the forest for the trees, but now I think the error is intentional. What we are all interested in here in this exchange is the classic "cartel"-behavioral definition of a monopoly. I reiterate my point, functionally Apple does have "sole power to set pricing" for apps. Perhaps you would respond that Apple having the "sole power" to set app pricing but not actually fully using that "sole power" is somehow an exculpatory point. But from a governance perspective, it is not. Apple does partially use its power. And to great benefit. It is not some selfless regulator in its own private market. It leverages its power to great personal gain, and often at the expense of consumers and developers alike. That's why they are in trouble here.

A thousand private marketplaces may exist. That's a truism. They do exist. In software and, perhaps, things like the livestock and commodities. But they are infinitely less common than public markets. Both kinds are regulated, but the latter kind is far less susceptible to cartel behavior.
Grocery store = public market
NSO Group = private market
 

NervousFish2

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2014
338
632
Grocery store = public market
NSO Group = private market
I'm curious if you could elaborate on this. I would call a grocery store simply a vendor. The vendor orders the commodities from the manufacture at a certain price, and tries itself to sell them for profit. Whereas the Apple App Store works differently, as the "manufacturers" are vending their own goods within the marketplace.

A cattle mart in certain instances can be a private market, as can certain commodity markets. The Apple App Store is also a private market.

But the vast majority of markets are not private. That's my only point.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Friend, you are being more than dishonest here. I did NOT define a market place as where a company takes a cut. You inserted words there, in complete violation of my point. It is disingenuous.
Nope. I quoted you directly except for the part in brackets where I substituted "a company" for "Apple".

Here is your full quote in context:
I don't think that's right. The App Store is indeed a marketplace. It would be a "store" if Apple was selling its own commodities there (like the bricks and mortar Apple Store, or on the web, for example). But the App Store is a place where other companies sell THEIR commodities, and Apple takes a service fee "cut" for each sale.

There is nothing dishonest about my quote. So let's stop with the ad hominem fallacy where you attack my integrity and imply I'm irrational. I simply disagree with you.
 

NervousFish2

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2014
338
632
Nope. I quoted you directly except for the part in brackets where I substituted "a company" for "Apple".

Here is your full quote in context:


There is nothing dishonest about my quote. So let's stop with the ad hominem fallacy where you attack my integrity and imply I'm irrational. I simply disagree with you.
Your quote is precisely dishonest because you took my words and inserted your own preferred meaning. If you want to debate with me, do it in good faith.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Your quote is precisely dishonest because you took my words and inserted your own preferred meaning. If you want to debate with me, do it in good faith.
I didn’t insert any meaning. Again, I quoted you directly. And then provided a longer quote directly from you to show context.

Heck, your whole argument that the App Store isn’t a store is silly to me. But I’m not dishonest for quoting it.
 

NagasakiGG

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2017
221
255
You need WhatsApp to be on the list to be able to get rid of WhatsApp, which it is (assuming Apple requests to be interoperable with WhatsApp).
WhatsApp is on that list. About iMessage they're still validating if they meet the criteria. Unfortunately Threema already stated that they won't support this "dUe To SeCuRiTy CoNcErNs". Let's see. I would welcome such interoperability.
 
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