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semiraw

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 8, 2023
27
3
Hi!

A few months ago the news came out that the new Macbook M2 have a slower SSD than the M1. In the base model, because in the advanced ones it is not slower:
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/06/26/base-m2-13-inch-macbook-pro-slower-ssd-speeds/

I would like to buy a Macbook 14" M2 Pro with 512GB. Is the M2 Pro base model.
And I would like to know if the same thing happens in the Pro/Max models. If SSDs are slower than M1.


Thanks!
 

NikkoTuason

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2018
123
255
On a M2 Pro 1TB:

Edit: I just re-read your question. Yes the 512GB M2 base is slower than M1 base.
 

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chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,701
7,264
On a M2 Pro 1TB:

Edit: I just re-read your question. Yes the 512GB M2 base is slower than M1 base.
Your terms are confusing the issue.
For the M2, the 256GB disk is slower than the 256GB M1.
For the M2 Pro, the 512GB is slower than the M1 Pro, but it is equally as fast as any of the computers with the M2 (non pro, non Max) processor and it’s faster than any Intel Mac, except perhaps some of the very largest disks in the 2019 Mac Pro.
I regularly use a 1TB M1 Pro and a 512GB M2 Pro and cannot feel the difference in performance. It’s only when I run a benchmark app that I can tell something is different.
 

chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,701
7,264
Hi!

A few months ago the news came out that the new Macbook M2 have a slower SSD than the M1. In the base model, because in the advanced ones it is not slower:
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/06/26/base-m2-13-inch-macbook-pro-slower-ssd-speeds/

I would like to buy a Macbook 14" M2 Pro with 512GB. Is the M2 Pro base model.
And I would like to know if the same thing happens in the Pro/Max models. If SSDs are slower than M1.


Thanks!
The 512GB M2 Pro computers have 2 storage chips, same as any M1 (non Pro, non Max) computer. The M2 Pro computers with larger storage have 4 chips so those are faster than the M1 or M2 and faster than the 512GB M2 Pro. Only the 256GB M2 (non Pro) MacBook has storage that’s slower than the M1 MacBook- that model only has one storage chip built in so the theoretical speed is cut in half. In actual practice the difference is largely imperceptible.
The storage in the 512GB M2 Pro still reads and writes at about 3000MB/second. It’s not slow storage, just not as fast as the bigger M2 Pro options.
 

semiraw

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 8, 2023
27
3
Still may be reason enough to go for a M1 Pro instead of M2 Pro...
I have searched and there is no longer stock of M1 Pro.

You would have to look at refurbished. And the price difference is not significant.
 

Malus120

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2002
693
1,450
Yes, the SSD in the 512GB M2 Pro is slower than the one in the 512GB M1 Pro. However it's still much faster than something like the M2 MacBook Air and it's highly unlikely to be an issue for you unless you're doing something extremely dependent on storage bandwidth for performance (in which case you'd probably be looking at a 2TB+ SSD as even Thunderbolt 3 external storage tops out around 4000Mbps.)

The main reason the reduction in SSD speed got so much bad press in the first place was that on the base M2 MBA with only 8GB of ram there are realistic usage scenarios where the MBA can run out of ram and have to page (use SSD as "ram") AND THEN becomes much slower than the older M1 machines (albeit still not exactly slow.)

The base 14" MacBook Pro by contrast comes with 16GB of ram (and an SSD ~2x the base M2) making the aforementioned scenario much less likely. Given the nice step up the M2 Pro is over the M1 Pro (especially the efficiency cores) I really wouldn't recommend going for an M1 Pro just for the SSD speed (although it's a good choice if you want to save money or get more storage/ram for the same price)

Anyway you'll be perfectly happy with the base M2 Pro MBP :)
 

HouseLannister

macrumors 6502a
Jun 8, 2021
694
1,100
Is it better to pay the 1TB price to not have the slow SSD?
I think so. The 1 TB model also has 2 more CPU cores, 3 more GPU cores, and the higher watt power adapter. Since it is still a stock config, you can get it from Amazon or Best Buy or anywhere. It is usually $200-300 off retail.
 
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AF_APPLETALK

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2020
670
921
No. They are not slow, It won’t make any difference.
Since when is 6GB/s sequential considered “slow”? What do you do with your computer, copy huge files all day long?

Slow?

Surely you mean 'less fast'?

In the real world, nobody will notice the difference.

yes the speeds are slower but that is not an issue in real world usage.

I don't understand this hand-wavy attitude. People making large purchases for something that usually gets held on to/used for several years are entitled to seek out the best specs. Apple is being opaque about it because it makes them look bad.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,137
7,108
This is getting ridiculous. To get the best SSD that they offer, you now have to upgrade the upgrade.
You need the 8TB version to get the best they offer. My 4TB versions are slower than my 8TB ones.

EDIT: Not really sure why people are reacting with laughing. I have 6 different Macs with various internal SSDs. Everything except the 8TB models perform slower. I get ~5-5.6 GB/s on my 2TB and 4TB ones, but I get ~6.8 GB/s (which is close to the advertised 7GB/s) on my 8TB ones.
 
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TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,545
4,012
I don't understand this hand-wavy attitude. People making large purchases for something that usually gets held on to/used for several years are entitled to seek out the best specs. Apple is being opaque about it because it makes them look bad.
How is it Hand wavy attitude? Apple is delivering the specs they committed. I wouldn’t buy Apple if it was slow. I have M1 Max MBP, and M2 MBA. Both are great laptops for their purpose and I don’t feel like M2 is slow. If I was in the market, I would buy M2 max over M1 Max.
 

herbert7265

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2023
104
80
Mexico
I don't understand this hand-wavy attitude. People making large purchases for something that usually gets held on to/used for several years are entitled to seek out the best specs. Apple is being opaque about it because it makes them look bad.
Is it really a “hand-wavy” attitude? Or could it also be a more “real world point of view”?

Yes, some SSDs are slower than others. Yes, some users may recognize an impact on their usage. But it also may help to keep in mind that the “slow” SSD from today is still way faster than the ”fast” SSD from yesterday…!

Last but not least, it’s everybody’s choice what to go for, the possibility to select is there. The only “problem” in here: You want something better, you have to pay more. But isn’t that everywhere else the same? What’s wrong with that?

Herbert
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
OP, when you ask any question of an Apple fan group that would require the group to think consumer BEFORE corporation- especially if the question requires critical thought vs. the corporation- you can't get many objective answers. A crowd would argue in favor of ANYTHING Apple would choose to do, even if the consumer in them can absolutely see steps back.

Basically, Apple did a remarkable thing with M1 Macs: they rolled out amazing specs, including incredibly fast SSD storage, even in the base specs. This established a very impressive speed benchmark. At the time, nobody argued that was too fast, overkill, "Apple should cut the speeds because it is too fast", etc. Instead, it was an incredible accomplishment. Wow! Wow! Wow!

Objective minds should see any tech benchmark as one to be at least matched- if not beaten- in future generations. No objective minds hope M3 will be slower than M2, or 8GB will be cut to 4GB or 48Megapixels will be cut to 12, etc. Tech expectations are universally BETTER, which is often measured in terms like Power, Speed, Resolution, etc. It's why there is so much buzz for M3 right now vs. arguing M2 is good enough and we need nothing more (or M2 is too fast and should be slowed down to about half the processing speed because "no one would notice" and "that is fast enough for anyone").

Unfortunately, in M2, Apple decided to make a different choice for base SSD that resulted in objective measures of HALF the speed of M1. If this was only rumored, even the most passionate Apple fans would argue "no way", "Apple would not cut any speed of anything custom Apple in half" and so on. But it is not a rumor. Apple did it. As such, Apple fans show up to defend any topic that requires assigning fault to Apple.

Basically: if Apple decides something, it is the one and only best answer for everyone... even if that something can be objectively measured and is an absolute step back... as this decision was. You would think that consumers could all remember that they are consumers (first) but that's not how fans work. Fans put the corp. above even their own self interests. If Apple wanted to HALVE speeds again in M3, the same types would argue the same supporting points. Why? Because Apple cannot be wrong.

M2 base SSD is absolutely slower than M1 base SSD. Whether that matters in any world or not can be debated. However, a benchmark was established by an amazing speed bar set by Apple in M1 and then HALVED in M2. There was no force on Apple to halve the speed. There was no supply chain issue or crisis or <other excuse>. It very likely comes down to the M2 choice made those Macs more profitable to Apple than sticking with the same approach used in M1 (one part instead of two parts). When what is best for consumers and what maximizes profits for corp. collide, the latter usually wins. IMO, the true genius of Apple is that the very people that then endure such choices will passionately argue why the downgrade is good/fine/etc. Most other companies cannot make their customers evangelize steps back. It is a relatively unique thing about Apple Inc.

If you want to overcome the issue as a consumer, don't buy base configurations. As you add more SSD capacity to a Silicon Mac, you are generally also buying a faster SSD configuration. Some say 2TB maxes out speed, some say 4TB, none say 256GB or even 512GB... though at least 512GB overcomes the "halving" choice in M2.

If economics heavily weigh upon the decision, you can get at least 512GB to overcome the "half speed" issue and then save substantial money on exterior storage in a fast Thunderbolt enclosure. Yes, that may not be quite as nice as having it all INSIDE, but Apple charges about 3X market or more for storage💰💰💰... so again, the focus of the problem and the Apple-oriented remedy BOTH revolve around maximizing corporate profits:
  • Add more SSD to overcome half speed and Apple pockets big profits on the VERY EXPENSIVE upgrades which can only be purchased from Apple.
  • Don't contribute to Apple profit maximization by embracing minimal specs and pay with half speed SSD and probably too little RAM over the life of the device.
IMO, the many arguments in support of half speed SSD is not consumers thinking as consumers. Tech consumers should very rarely rationalize tech cuts in something as fundamentally important as speed. The problem here is that Apple chose to do it vs. their own established benchmark and a segment feels it MUST side with Apple no matter what.

Solve the problem by paying up for more Apple SSD (and probably at least one notch up in Apple RAM too while you are at it). If you need sizable storage and don't want to far (relatively) overpay for it, seek out much less expensive third party m.2 in a fast enclosure.

Else, step outside the walled garden and PCs still have enormous competition for RAM, SSD, etc. Where there is much competition, much more of the money spent is buying the product vs. adding onto the cash vault pile. Because I needed full Windows for work with some clients, I had to buy my first PC in a LONG time for "old fashioned" bootcamp. It's quite shocking to look at an 8TB upgrade from Apple being priced at $2200 and an 8GB M.2 stick being priced at $750. The same shock occurs if one needs a lot of RAM. As a long-term Apple guy who is just about everything Apple myself, I can objectively appreciate the great value of PC hardware, driven by competition. A chunk of a budget of a loaded Mac can buy a LOT of PC power.
 
Last edited:

ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
The main reason the reduction in SSD speed got so much bad press in the first place was that on the base M2 MBA with only 8GB of ram there are realistic usage scenarios where the MBA can run out of ram and have to page (use SSD as "ram") AND THEN becomes much slower than the older M1 machines (albeit still not exactly slow.)

The base 14" MacBook Pro by contrast comes with 16GB of ram (and an SSD ~2x the base M2) making the aforementioned scenario much less likely. Given the nice step up the M2 Pro is over the M1 Pro (especially the efficiency cores) I really wouldn't recommend going for an M1 Pro just for the SSD speed (although it's a good choice if you want to save money or get more storage/ram for the same price)
Well said. There has also been a bit of an epidemic of youtubers recommending people to upgrade to the 512GB SSDs on the base M2 systems (or 1TB on the 14"/16") specifically for better swap performance. This has been a bit misleading for a lot of consumers who aren't as well versed on how these things work, as the better choice is almost always to upgrade RAM instead if the primary reason you are upgrading is for better swap performance.

No matter how fast the SSD is, it will still be orders of magnitude slower than RAM due to access latency. I don't think that the youtubers have been intentionally malicious, but they haven't exactly helped with the confusion on this whole matter.
 
Last edited:

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,545
4,012
Well said. There has also been a bit of an epidemic of youtubers recommending people to upgrade to the 512GB SSDs on the base M2 systems (or 1TB on the 14"/16") specifically for better swap performance. This has been a bit misleading for a lot of consumers who aren't as well versed on how these things work, as the better choice is almost always to upgrade RAM instead if the primary reason you are upgrading is for better swap performance.

No matter how fast the SSD is, it will still be orders of magnitude slower than RAM due to access latency. I don't think that the youtubers have been malicious, but they haven't exactly helped with the confusion on this whole matter.
And some of the YouTubers had no idea SSD was slower than RAM.
 
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