Are they really going to update Mac Pro in 2013?

[deconstruct60]

I was agreeing with you until you mentioned Windows 8. It seems like MS threw the road map away when it came to Windows 8. It's a complete f-up and no corporate is going to upgrade it. It's pretty clear they are going to skip it since the training and upgrade costs will be horrendous when most are only now moving to Windows 7 and 8 is simply just far too much of a departure from the standard paradigm.

The last part there just illustrates that "Metro" really isn't the core issue. It is not that it is a "tablet OS" it isn't. There are perhaps 7-8 new things the learn but it is perfectly usage with mouse and keyboard. It is the 7-8 things to learn that are the problem. Many companies won't be upgrading to 8 because they never did get rid of XP.

Windows 8 isn't really a failure if its growth rate matches that of Windows 7 over last 24 months. (yes even though Apple clowned them on Windows 7's rate. If the OS is going to be deployed for the next 5-6 years that isn't bad. Lion needs to get to 60-70% in a year because it is being retired in 2 years. At Window's 7 rates it would be in de-support before it got to that level. ) As long as Windows 7 polishes off XP in the corporate world and Windows 8 moves along in some corporate and alot of consumer desktops Microsoft will be just fine.


In 2-3 years, the number of corporations adopting will probably start a new growth curve as Windows 9 starts to queue up. Enterprise IT are typically just slow. They work on 4-6 year cycles to pretty much do anything with scale.

Even the journalists who are self-confessed MS fan boys are asking, "WTF".

LOL. It is actually in both groups self interest to fan the flames of discontent. The journalists because it is "news" ( unsuspecting user run over by Windows 8 because didn't read any manuals or doing any training. ). "Fan boys" since there is no expertise edge in being just as untrained as the users. ("we have to stick to this road because this is the one I know.")
The same kinds of folks who rolled on the floor in agony over OS X's LaunchPad. Or labeled Mac OS X 10.1 a downgrade to OS 9.

 

[d-m-a-x]

Yeah it was a bad move. Completely agree. It needs to be updated, but I think that the doomsaying is a little out of hand. Apple also updated Aperture and Final Cut recently didn't they? They are committed to those products.

They did, but the FCPX release was a train-wreck. When people thought we were stuck with single camera, they started to jump ship. The lack of communication from Apple open the field for speculation. Personally i don't like it, but when a huge company releases sub-par hardware / software with infrequent updates in the pro sector , and frequently updates the consumer sector....... the question of their priorities will be asked

 

[eric/]

They did, but the FCPX release was a train-wreck. When people thought we were stuck with single camera, they started to jump ship. The lack of communication from Apple open the field for speculation. Personally i don't like it, but when a huge company releases sub-par hardware / software with infrequent updates in the pro sector , and frequently updates the consumer sector....... the question of their priorities will be asked

Well it's a business, so of course they're priorities are going to go to making money. Sure it sucks that they didn't update it, and let's face it, their priorities are the consumer market, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their professional stuff. And it definitely doesn't mean the company is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[d-m-a-x]

Well it's a business, so of course they're priorities are going to go to making money. Sure it sucks that they didn't update it, and let's face it, their priorities are the consumer market, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their professional stuff. And it definitely doesn't mean the company is going anywhere anytime soon.

There're not going anywhere. They may soon earn the title "McApple" though

 

[Sitti]

Really though, some of the posts here are just mind blowing. The downfall of Apple because they've taken a little too long to update the Mac Pro? C'mon.

I agree. Sales of Mac Pro wouldn't have much effect on their revenue. Besides, Mac Pro and most of Apple products aren't really the "must have" or primary choice for Pros. Apple's business model, when sales of certain product becomes slow, kill it. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple kills Mac Pro now. And I also wouldn't be surprised if they start completely new "Mac Pro" under different name

 

[deconstruct60]

They can't not update it after everything that happened this week.

They could, but it isn't likely. However, if the sales of Mac Pros dropped to practically zero they could kill it on the justification nobody is buying it.

Apple probably fully expects an Osborne Effect to kill the demand to levels that are probably lower than their minimal unit sales mark is. But I think they also know this was self inflicted because they screwed up the update. This latest update could not have been the primary plan 1.5-2 years ago. Unless the plan actually was to invoke the Osborne Effect.

But I have a feeling that it's going to be a bitter-sweet update, kind of like the rMBP. No, I don't mean it's going to become a laptop. I mean that it's going to be great in some ways and it's going to be disappointing to a bunch of people.

That is a pretty safe bet since it was true back in 2010. Unless, you are excluding the xMac ( "It should be cheaper". "It should be smaller". "It should compete with $900 generic towers" ) crowd. Or the "top of the line i7's are cheaper" than Xeons ( when they effectively aren't ) crowd. And the "has to have more then 4 PCI-e slots" and the "must have dual banks per memory controller crowd".

I have a suspicion that it's going to be a redesign and they are going to go into directions that not everyone will be happy with.

I suspect the Mac Pro will become more like the other Macs (e.g., embedded GPU). But yes, it seems likely they will modify the Mac Pro so it is less a "basic erector set" kit (slightly more than a barebones box) and more components users are required to buy from Apple.

I also suspect those who buy Mac Pro's for highest single core GHz will be disappointed too (the overclocking crowd). Likewise folks whose software doesn't scale well with cores and/or doesn't fully leverage OpenCL/GrandCentralDispatch/other-Apple-parallelism-boosting-libraries .


That still could relatively leave lost of flexibility, but some folks that put a high value on "control" will go on the warpath.

 

[eric/]

I agree. Sales of Mac Pro wouldn't have much effect on their revenue. Besides, Mac Pro and most of Apple products aren't really the "must have" or primary choice for Pros. Apple's business model, when sales of certain product becomes slow, kill it. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple kills Mac Pro now. And I also wouldn't be surprised if they start completely new "Mac Pro" under different name

Why would the alienate an entire fan base, and customers who they make revenue on?

Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Mike Valmike]

I've been following Apple rumors every day for 5 years and I can tell you that they will DEFINITELY be releasing a new mac pro next year. What month next year who knows (could be as late as December) but it will definitely come. They're PR reaction is so unusual and un-apple like that if you really know how to read apple rumors (which I do) this is a sure thing. I would not even be surprised if after WWDC Tim Cook and the big whigs all have a meeting to figure out how to "fast track" the next mac pro for release by WWDC next year.

This guy has the right of it. Considering Apple's typical level of communication about upcoming products, this one is basically a mortal lock. It might be late or it might be whatever but it WILL happen.

 

[deconstruct60]

Why would the alienate an entire fan base,

fan base? It is a business. Apple wants people to find their product useful. But having fans to just to be trendy/popular .... that's not their objective. Dropping the Mac Pro would not negatively impact the overall Mac market in any significant way if it is so small that Apple is extremely motivated to kill it. It isn't going to particularly alienate MacBookPro customers if Apple now has more R&D resources to spend on their product and they reap the benefits.

and customers who they make revenue on?

If customers aren't buying it then Apple isn't making much revenue on it. They aren't customers unless they buy Mac Pros from Apple. If the customer market Apple is targeting with the Mac Pro vote 'thumbs down" and do not buy in extremely high numbers, then Apple may cancel.

Apple isn't going to produce something that people don't buy.

Apple likely knows that right now sales are going to drop more before they start to rise again after the new model's introduction. However, if that doesn't turn the tide .... that may be last model.

 

[eric/]

fan base? It is a business. Apple wants people to find their product useful. But having fans to just to be trendy/popular .... that's not their objective. Dropping the Mac Pro would not negatively impact the overall Mac market in any significant way if it is so small that Apple is extremely motivated to kill it. It isn't going to particularly alienate MacBookPro customers if Apple now has more R&D resources to spend on their product and they reap the benefits.

If customers aren't buying it then Apple isn't making much revenue on it. They aren't customers unless they buy Mac Pros from Apple. If the customer market Apple is targeting with the Mac Pro vote 'thumbs down" and do not buy in extremely high numbers, then Apple may cancel.

Apple isn't going to produce something that people don't buy.

Apple likely knows that right now sales are going to drop more before they start to rise again after the new model's introduction. However, if that doesn't turn the tide .... that may be last model.

Apple is very sensitive to their reputation. And they surely realize that a drop off in Mac Pro sales is directly related to the computer not being updated recently. Nor do they need to be purchased in extremely high numbers, just in high enough numbers to turn a profit.

honestly, the rest of your post is just speculation.

 

[deconstruct60]

Nor do they need to be purchased in extremely high numbers, just in high enough numbers to turn a profit.

It isn't about profit. It is about growth.

Apple makes 10's of million of dollars per day in revenue. That's per day. If the Mac Pro goes down in the "round off " column on the balance sheet it will get the axe. Especially, if other, higher growth potential Mac products are understaffed or underfunded.

 

[eric/]

It isn't about profit. It is about growth.

Apple makes 10's of million of dollars per day in revenue. That's per day. If the Mac Pro goes down in the "round off " column on the balance sheet it will get the axe. Especially, if other, higher growth potential Mac products are understaffed or underfunded.

Well, neither of us really know what they are going to do, or what things are looking like.

but I really think the doomsayers need to relax. I don't think the Mac Pro is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Well, neither of us really know what they are going to do, or what things are looking like.

but I really think the doomsayers need to relax. I don't think the Mac Pro is going anywhere anytime soon.

I think you inadvertantly hit the nail on the head.

 

[Jst0rm]

I've been following Apple rumors every day for 5 years and I can tell you that they will DEFINITELY be releasing a new mac pro next year. What month next year who knows (could be as late as December) but it will definitely come. They're PR reaction is so unusual and un-apple like that if you really know how to read apple rumors (which I do) this is a sure thing. Whenever they really want the public to know something they always tell their trusted sources (NY Times, WSJ, and Forbes) to spread the word (it happened with iPhone on Verizon, new iPhones, iPad introduction, and many more rumors). Also, they took the VERY unusual step (I've never seen it done) of backtracking the "new" designation of the mac pro on the apple store. All of this combined with Tim Cook emailing macrumors himself and responding to the facebook page is just a plain admission that this is happening, period. For a secretive company, this is as much as I have seen them EVER do, so much so that I wouldn't even call it a rumor. I would not even be surprised if after WWDC Tim Cook and the big whigs all have a meeting to figure out how to "fast track" the next mac pro for release by WWDC next year. I personally see WWDC as the best place for them to release it and am almost certain that of all the times in 2013 to release it, WWDC will be it. One thing that is a huge unknown however is what hardware they will release it with. For all we know it could be on Sandy bridge and not even Ivy bridge at the time (as Intel has yet to release Ivy bridge Xeon support).

This. How often has apple pr come out and said something like this? Seems to be such a rare occurrence that it will happen 100%

 

[Ice-Cube]

2013 is so far away....they could release it in Christmas '13 and still keep to their word.

 

[Dj Lee]

I can't wait till Apple whips out the single best Mac Pro they've ever made and you guys all eat your words.

Fan boy.

Regardless of what they do next year they seriously fked up this year. People have been waiting and waiting for a Mac Pro update and when Apple finally updates it they do it with old tech. This really pisses me off but hey I guess this what we Apple users should expect.

Apple really couldn't put in new Sandy Bridge Es in or new GPUs? There really isn't many competent employees in Apple to do this? If people are building hackentoshes with new gear why can't Apple build new Mac Pros with new tech?

 

[Jst0rm]

It angers me they ****ed up this year but it pleases me they realized it and came out with a clear message to those of us in business that the macpro will be there moving forward.

 

[Maccho]

Yeah I was quite upset that the Mac Pro didnt get updated at WWDC, I saw the "new" sign on the Mac Pro and thought, wow finally!

But then looked closely and realized its not really new, its just branded as new. Though they did correct themselves.

I have been waiting ages for a new Mac Pro to come out. I hope next year, sometime early, they will pump out something totally awesome, I have confidence they will since Tim Cook did say so.

For Apple prosumers, we really need the Mac Pro. Mac Mini, iMac, MBP's they won't do when you need extreme CPU power.

I have my fingers crossed for whatever comes out, I just hope sooner better than later. Then again lets me save up the money

 

[theSeb]

Yes,

I do hope Microsoft will at least offer a version without Metro.

According to the leaks of latest unreleased Windows 8 build, it's getting worse. It looks as though MS is really intent on destroying the desktop experience.

It's kind of ironic that many people here complain about the "iOS-isation" of OSX with Lion and ML (I am not in that camp by the way) when MS is going to show us how to f-up a desktop GUI properly.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/15/windows8_flat_flat_flat/

 

[eric/]

Fan boy.

Regardless of what they do next year they seriously fked up this year. People have been waiting and waiting for a Mac Pro update and when Apple finally updates it they do it with old tech. This really pisses me off but hey I guess this what we Apple users should expect.

Apple really couldn't put in new Sandy Bridge Es in or new GPUs? There really isn't many competent employees in Apple to do this? If people are building hackentoshes with new gear why can't Apple build new Mac Pros with new tech?

Oh I am no fan boy, I just think each and everyone of you guys here complaining are going to be doing the exact opposite when apple releases a new Mac pro, and you're all wrong about apple not caring about their pro stuff.

 

[deconstruct60]

According to the leaks of latest unreleased Windows 8 build, it's getting worse. It looks as though MS is really intent on destroying the desktop experience.

Chuckle....... removing the "disco" glass effects from the desktop is destroying it ? Sorry but there is a small camp of folks who thought that when it was introduced in Vista ( yeah that's right the article overtly states that they are removing a Vista era 'improvement' ).

This has more the hallmarks of being a 'Vista' like move in an attempt to expand the suitable hardware foundation for the upgrade. For example, All those early netbooks with much worse Intel iGPUs. This is one of the themes you can run with Windows 8. Of course it is the 'end of the world' that it isn't closely tracking the Finder's "reflections in the dock' disco and candy coated, 'almost lick-able' , chrome UI elements.

In fact, if follow the links to the "examples" a the bottom of the article you'll eventually find a Microsoft blog.

"Goals
1. Fast and fluid.
....
2. Long battery life.

... we want a chrome style that doesn’t distract from the content of the app. ... "
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx

where many of the motivations of the changes are outlined. There is almost nothing truly "Moaist" there at all. More like "anti" "the Vegas strip" or "Times Square at night", chrome themes that are "in your face" even as you focus inside the application's window.

The other side-effect I don't think the blog mentions is that it is more obvious to the user when they switch between intermediary apps/resources/etc navigation mode that is Metro based ( which is still candy color coated flavor ) and the desktop chrome ( which is less "colors in your face" ) now.

It's kind of ironic that many people here complain about the "iOS-isation" of OSX with Lion and ML (I am not in that camp by the way) when MS is going to show us how to f-up a desktop GUI properly.

How is iOS-isation when going back to something closer to the XP (or Win95 ) desktop ? Seriously?

 

[theSeb]

Chuckle....... removing the "disco" glass effects from the desktop is destroying it ? Sorry but there is a small camp of folks who thought that when it was introduced in Vista ( yeah that's right the article overtly states that they are removing a Vista era 'improvement' ).

This has more the hallmarks of being a 'Vista' like move in an attempt to expand the suitable hardware foundation for the upgrade. For example, All those early netbooks with much worse Intel iGPUs. This is one of the themes you can run with Windows 8. Of course it is the 'end of the world' that it isn't closely tracking the Finder's "reflections in the dock' disco and candy coated, 'almost lick-able' , chrome UI elements.

In fact, if follow the links to the "examples" a the bottom of the article you'll eventually find a Microsoft blog.

"Goals
1. Fast and fluid.
....
2. Long battery life.

... we want a chrome style that doesn’t distract from the content of the app. ... "
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx

where many of the motivations of the changes are outlined. There is almost nothing truly "Moaist" there at all. More like "anti" "the Vegas strip" or "Times Square at night", chrome themes that are "in your face" even as you focus inside the application's window.

The other side-effect I don't think the blog mentions is that it is more obvious to the user when they switch between intermediary apps/resources/etc navigation mode that is Metro based ( which is still candy color coated flavor ) and the desktop chrome ( which is less "colors in your face" ) now.

I am not 100% sure what you're referring to when you say "disco effects". I assume it's the transparency whizz-bang of Aero by your comment about glass. If so, then I agree with you. If it's removing 3D effects from buttons and menus to show the z-buffer and shadows, then I disagree. It's a backwards and silly decision. Oh well, we can wait until Windows 9 when all of Metro will be thrown out and are told that it's out of the date now.

How is iOS-isation when going back to something closer to the XP (or Win95 ) desktop ? Seriously?

The metro interface is getting whizz-bang effects, for the sake of the tablet side, whereas the desktop is getting neglected. So all of the stuff that isn't really necessary in a desktop GUI (like all of Metro), is being forced into a desktop GUI. Only two windows side by side? Seriously? They are moving the desktop back to Windows 3.0, never mind 95. I am not sure why you think this a good thing. The unnecessary tablet UI elements that Metro brings to Windows desktop are, frankly, puzzling. And I am not the only that is puzzled .

 

[Tanax]

Of course they are not.

The hardware for a refresh is available NOW

The fanboys were all saying "it's just because the new Xeons are not shipping"

Well that's not it.

This "It's coming next year" mass delusion is hilarious - there is NO reason for apple to wait until next year - massive improvements in hardware are there NOW.

Is the hardware really available now?
Does the Xeon processors support TB? How will they solve connecting TB to a discrete graphics card?

 

[deconstruct60]

Is the hardware really available now?

CDW seems to think so...

http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/resu...sscat=&b=&p=&searchscope=All&ctlgfilter=&sr=1

5-7 days for several models.


or straight from the HP mothership

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...sg_wscpm_z820_products_preconfig/shopnow_z820

or Boxx


http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DBOXX/8920.asp?prodid=8920


or a few others.

Dell is still just taking orders for July though.


However, it would also be fair to point out that HP, Boxx , Dell, and most of the others who sold 5600/3600 workstations over the last 2 years are also still selling them now alongside these newer models. There are still folks buying those. Apple is aligned with them on that aspect. There is a group of buyers who move forward at a slower speed.

Does the Xeon processors support TB?

Thunderbolt isn't a gating factor. The mainstream processors don't "support" Thunderbolt directly either. Thunderbolt is implemented with a discrete controller chips. Any system that supplies it with PCI-e input and Dispaly Port signal is supported. It doesn't have to come directly from the CPU or be directly integrated into the CPU package.

That's just an excuse.

How will they solve connecting TB to a discrete graphics card?

Do they really have to? If Apple had a fully complete (except for Thunderbolt ) upgrade for the Mac Pro ( Xeon E5 , USB 3.0 , SATA III , more sensible SSD options, more internal drive sleds , etc. ) and squashed it for another 6-10 months for the sole reason to put TB on it with some hack. That was a better move to releasing this "minor speed bump", not-really-new update?

Thunderbolt was never designed with discrete graphics cards in mind. What is whacked in the myopic thinking that the solution has to evolve forward starting with the classic PCI-e discrete card form factor. It doesn't.
It actually backwards. It is how to connect the discrete graphics card's display port output to the TB. Not the other way around.

The only reason TB turns into a problem that is "so hard it is going to take Apple months.... years" longer to solve than everyone else is to compose the problem backwards so that some sort of Rube Goldberg contraption is necessary to 'solve' it.

 

[Dj Lee]

Oh I am no fan boy, I just think each and everyone of you guys here complaining are going to be doing the exact opposite when apple releases a new Mac pro, and you're all wrong about apple not caring about their pro stuff.

Apple releasing a new Mac Pro is a YEAR AWAY!!! This so called new Mac Pro they just released is bull ****. So why are you still defending Apple? You believe what they just released this year is new, innovative? They used 2 year old CPUs and slapped on a New sign.

Honestly I wouldn't be on this forum talking about Apple if at one point I believed in them but the more they keep doing these retarded things makes me lose my trust in the future of Macs!!!