Are we over-criticizing the 720p webcam?

[JKNorth]

To answer the original question: yes.

In my experience there aren't any built-in cameras that are 'amazing' they're all bleh to meh. If you want a better camera for recording and video conferences you will be infinitely better served with an external camera.

I've been through a range this year and this is what I found:
Built-in laptop cameras: Mediocre. Doesn't matter if it's Windows or Mac. Tiny apertures and sensors means dim and grainy. The M1's built-in is among the better of them. I find the ISP is pretty good. I'd say the camera is acceptable for quick and dirty video calls.

The Logitech C920 and the iMac Pro are pretty comparable and fairly decent, well-exposed crisp and clear images.

The Logitech StreamCam I found better than the C920 and the iMac Pro. Slightly bigger lens and sensor results in a better exposure.

Using a Sony A5100 mirrorless camera with an HDMI capture card is a quantum leap in camera performance. Makes all the webcams look flat and harsh. You get legit bokeh, the exposure and colour saturation is excellent, and of course it's highly adjustable.

The idea that just upping the pixel count will get you that mirrorless quality image in a camera assembly the size of your fingernail is foolish. If you need that image quality, you need an external camera with a sizeable lens. Or a seriously fat lid. The M1's ISP makes the most of what you can do in that size.

 

[MrEcted]

My position is that it's kinda silly that it's still 720p, but I literally could not care less. It's fine for its purpose. Not great, not abysmal, just fine. Literally nobody cares who sees you in 720p. I never have people's faces blown up in full screen, usually they're a square off to the side (especially during meetings) so resolution doesn't even matter at that point.

The only thing that I would see as a good thing if they upgraded it to 1080p is that people would stop complaining about it, so with that in mind I hope they upgrade it ASAP.

 

[ian87w]

720p in 2020 is a disaster and a classic example of Apple dragging down the specs so they can bump them in a future model. There's zero excuse for such a low res webcam in these new models and 'it looks OK' doesn't cut it.

Did you watch the video?

 

[thenewperson]

Sadly the Face ID components would be too thick. Can you imagine a MacBook with a camera bump (front or back)?

Indeed. I wonder how many of the people actually asking for this have considered what actually needs to happen to support it. The lid is pretty thin because all the components are so thin now, so it's either we get a bump (ew), or the lid is thickened to match the space needed for the camera (and I'm not sure who's going to point to a lid close to the thickness of an iPhone as an improvement).

 

[johannnn]

This new "AI filter" just makes me extremely blurry

 

[johannnn]

I guess I'll start: they should put a 4K camera up there. Preferably with the other Face ID components

We already have Touch ID...

 

[AutomaticApple]

The only thing that I would see as a good thing if they upgraded it to 1080p is that people would stop complaining about it, so with that in mind I hope they upgrade it ASAP.

Exactly! The only reason to upgrade it is for the sole purpose of making the angry mob happy.

Did you watch the video?

They probably didn't. All that matters to nerds is the spec sheet. That is enough for them to throw a temper tantrum over the webcam.

 

[wytwolf]

While I would like to have 1080p it is not a deal breaker (hence the 13" M1 MBP I have on order). I looked around and all of the 13" MBP competitors have 720p camera's also. And it's probably partially due to the how thin the LCD is, hence the reason why they had to ditch the glowing apple logo. The Dell XPS, a base 13" MBP competitor has a 720p along with the Lenovo X1's. Most of those thin smaller laptop also only have 1080p screens with the a few with 4K but only 1/2 the battery life. It's about balance. As long as youre well lite it should be fine and most zoom meetings are in brady bunch squares and I would use the laptop for more screen real estate. If it's personally facetime it's usually on my phone.

 

[MarkAtl]

If you want to look good on your zoom calls, make sure your face is well lit first. Use like a ring/donut light in front of your That alone will help a lot.

What I did was to get 2 inexpensive desk lamps at Target with $10 WiFi bulbs from Home Depot. I have it linked to my Echo so I can just say, “Alexa, turn on office lights to 25%” and I’m ready to go. I have them on both sides of my monitor angled towards my face. I guess for the Christmas season I can make the lights green too.

I use a Logitech C920 as my webcam so no complaints there.

 

[dogslobber]

Did you watch the video?

720p webcam in 2020 = lousy in any language. Wake up and stop drinking kool aid.

 

[MarkAtl]

While I would like to have 1080p it is not a deal breaker (hence the 13" M1 MBP I have on order). I looked around and all of the 13" MBP competitors have 720p camera's also. And it's probably partially due to the how thin the LCD is, hence the reason why they had to ditch the glowing apple logo. The Dell XPS, a base 13" MBP competitor has a 720p along with the Lenovo X1's. Most of those thin smaller laptop also only have 1080p screens with the a few with 4K but only 1/2 the battery life. It's about balance. As long as youre well lite it should be fine and most zoom meetings are in brady bunch squares and I would use the laptop for more screen real estate. If it's personally facetime it's usually on my phone.

I agree, I keep everyone as a pretty small square.

Plus a lot of people use Zoom’s slider to hide flaws which softens the image.

 

[fivenotrump]

yes 'we' are: it's better than I need

 

[ian87w]

720p webcam in 2020 = lousy in any language. Wake up and stop drinking kool aid.

But did you watch the video comparing the webcam? I didn’t drink anything, I just watched the facts.

 

[ian87w]

While I would like to have 1080p it is not a deal breaker (hence the 13" M1 MBP I have on order). I looked around and all of the 13" MBP competitors have 720p camera's also. And it's probably partially due to the how thin the LCD is, hence the reason why they had to ditch the glowing apple logo. The Dell XPS, a base 13" MBP competitor has a 720p along with the Lenovo X1's. Most of those thin smaller laptop also only have 1080p screens with the a few with 4K but only 1/2 the battery life. It's about balance. As long as youre well lite it should be fine and most zoom meetings are in brady bunch squares and I would use the laptop for more screen real estate. If it's personally facetime it's usually on my phone.

Reality apparently doesn’t seem to register with some posters here.

 

[dogslobber]

But did you watch the video comparing the webcam? I didn’t drink anything, I just watched the facts.

The fact is it has a lousy 720p webcam in it. Who'd have thought they actually made such a lousy resolution in 2020?

Now the real question is why Apple is putting a piece of junk in there and selling it in 2020. Shameful.

 

[ian87w]

The fact is it has a lousy 720p webcam in it. Who'd have thought they actually made such a lousy resolution in 2020?

Now the real question is why Apple is putting a piece of junk in there and selling it in 2020. Shameful.

Seems like you don’t quite understand what facts are, despite the obvious (ie. The video). But whatever, keep the rage, surely you’ll get somewhere, I guess.

 

[Zazoh]

Interestingly enough, this camera only has ONE purpose. For the last 4 years you folks have covered the damn thing with a sticky note. Because there isn't much else to complain about, now we yank off the sticky note, and demand 4k Video that will only show the image of a face at 18-24 inches?

It is so nice to hear that Apple has nailed all other aspects of design and now we are down to this ...

I for one, am glad it is "only" 720, I don't want to spend money on something I'm only going to use, reluctantly.

Signed - blurry faced in Texas.

 

[LonestarOne]

People over-criticize everything. A great many movies are only available in 480p to this day. If it’s good enough for Cary Grant, it’s good enough for me.

 

[LonestarOne]

Besides, people need a bad camera for photographing UFOs and Bigfoot.

 

[dogslobber]

Seems like you don’t quite understand what facts are, despite the obvious (ie. The video). But whatever, keep the rage, surely you’ll get somewhere, I guess.

When Apple finally releases a 1080p webcam in a future model, these flag wavers will drop the 720p is OK nonsense like a lead balloon. Always happens. E.g. those who said a Fusion Drive was great whereas it was junk then as it still is.

 

[MarkAtl]

Amazing all the moaning going on. This isn’t just an Apple problem.

”I don’t want those huge bezels. Waaaah.”

”I want my laptop to be thinner and lighter. Waaah.”

Well, they delivered.

“Unlike most tech, webcams on laptops have worsened in recent years, and the XPS 13 takes much of the blame. The normal size of a camera module is 7mm, but Dell worked hard with camera vendors to make a 2.25mm module that could squeeze into the tiny top bezel of the laptop screen.”

In The Age Of Zoom, Bad Laptop Webcams Are A Big Problem | Digital Trends

More of our lives are moving to Zoom, and that means laptop webcams are more important than ever. The problem? They suck -- but there's good reason for it.

www.digitaltrends.com

If Apple believes they need a 1080p webcam they will find a way to deliver it, but if you shrink the lens and sensors the image might have more pixels but look worse.

 

[AutomaticApple]

720p webcam in 2020 = lousy in any language. Wake up and stop drinking kool aid.

I assume that you're a very smart engineer who knows how to put 1080p camera module in a laptop with an extremely thin lid?

 

[dogslobber]

I assume that you're a very smart engineer who knows how to put 1080p camera module in a laptop with an extremely thin lid?

That's not my role at Apple.

 

[AutomaticApple]

That's not my role at Apple.

Exactly, so what position are you in to assume that they can stuff a slightly better 1080p webcam module into such a thin lid?

 

[limesmoothie]

It's an OK camera. Obviously, the issues of 2020 mean we are all suddenly relying more on the webcam, which no one could have foreseen (I barely used mine before this year, even for work).

If the legacy of 2020 is more remote working, then Apple will need to make improvements here, and they're totally aware of this. The performance and battery gains in these machines far outweigh any concerns I have about the camera at this time.