Are we seeing a post-"Everything just works"-Apple?

[Rogifan]

Outside of WWDC 2011 when Steve Jobs used the phrase "it just works" regarding iCloud had Apple ever used "it just works" or "everything just works" in marketing materials or on stage?

But I agree with an earlier post that Apple software needs work (and I'm referring to fixing bugs, not aesthetic preference which some seem to be obsessed with). I'm hoping WWDC brings a Snow Leoppard version of iOS and OS X. I would argue Apple has almost done more with iOS in the last 2 years than the previous 6. They've done a lot in a short amount of time. I think they can afford to take a year to polish what they have and make it really good.

 

[grahamperrin]

… had Apple ever used "it just works" or "everything just works" in marketing materials …?

I vaguely recall it being fairly commonplace for a while. This, for example, from Apple (United Kingdom) - Education - Leaders & Administrators - The Apple Ecosystem

"Everything Apple means everything just works …"​

… I think they can afford to take a year to polish what they have and make it really good.

Yes, but I doubt that Apple will do so.

Everything just works is a marketing term, pure and simple. …

My point is Apple while worked towards perfection, they have laid their share of eggs. …

Someone used the phrase "best within reason", or words to that effect.

It's easy to forget that, for example, with Windows 7: some quite ordinary USB devices will not work until after an administrator logs on to allow installation of drivers.

Compared to daft stuff such as that with Windows, Apple stuff truly just work.

 

[Rogifan]

Ben Thmpson has an interesting post over at Stratechery - basically about Apple, disruption and the need to focus. He makes a couple arguments that I agree with 100%: decouple iOS and OS X from harware releases (i.e. ship when ready) and disband first party software teams or spin them off into a different company. Focus on OS and building the best platform for 3rd party developers. Really interesting and thought provoking piece.

http://stratechery.com/2014/best/

 

[grahamperrin]

Holistiic not separatist

… disband first party software teams or spin them off into a different company. Focus on OS and building the best platform for 3rd party developers. …

+1
for the link and for provoking thought. I wasn't sure what was meant by first party, the article suggests:

… First party software like the iWork and iLife suites …

I doubt that disbanding or spinning off would benefit Apple or its operating systems. I feel that something more holistic is needed.

 

[quackers82]

Having been an Windows user exclusively for my whole life until 2012, and being an Android user before my first iPhone in 2013, i can tell you in comparison, for me , it does 'just work'. I needed a Windows only app this week, so i installed Parallels Desktop and Windows 7, and within the first few seconds of Windows being installed it was driving me up the wall, endless first run wizards, updates, reboot after reboot, beeps of errors, then choose your default browser crap, then another reboot as another update comes down, then downloads not downloading because IE was doing annoying things. All i wanted to do was run Sharepoint Designer, 1 task! I don't want to go back to that world permanently. it reminded me how in general the Apple stuff does just work.

In comparaison i had a sealed 2014 Air upstairs as a spare, and a friend wanted to come round and play Minecraft, after spending an hour or so trying to get Minecraft working on his Windows machine we just gave in, went upstairs grabbed the new Mac, unwrapped and had Minecraft downloaded and working in under 10 minutes with all the updates installed, it just worked.

 

[grahamperrin]

Are releases of OS X too rushed?

From the opening poster:

… wondered if it's inevitable to have an ever growing company and keep up with the bug squashing, especially with their rather quick release schedule for software. If the answer is yes …

A poll begun by another user:

Is OS X upgrading too quickly?​

… what's the issue? …

… I just wish that Apple would slow down their breakneck pace and spend the time required to build stable software that their hardware so desperately needs. The yearly release cycles of OS X, iOS, iPhone & iPad are resulting in too many things seeing the light of day that aren’t finished yet. Perhaps the world wouldn’t let them, perhaps the expectations are now too high …[/INDENT]

No, no different than how it's always been. …

… there have ALWAYS been problems and ALWAYS been people claiming "Apple is going downhill".

… there are always people here claiming that every software update and new product is "the worst ever".

Well, OS X and iOS have improved TREMENDOUSLY since the beginning. The amount of major bugs with new releases has decreased significantly. …

… Apple releases software before it's ready. I used to look forward to new releases, but have learned from experience that they will be bug-ridden. … Apple's hitting the wall. And by the time they finally have things working smoothly, it's time for the next major upgrade and things that had been fixed are broken again. …

Ben Thmpson has an interesting post … ship when ready … Focus on OS and building the best platform for 3rd party developers …

 

[kazmac]

So it would seem.

That, and the fact they've both lost their visionary and then threw his work out of the window (software design-wise) means a dissatisfied long-time Apple customer (me).

That said, I do concede that I may be in the minority.

Switching back to Windows has become more attractive than ever, particularly with Windows X on the horizon.

You're not alone. I am questioning my loyalty a lot lately and with the rushed products (software and hardware) it just disappoints me immensely. I will see what 2015 brings.

 

[grahamperrin]

@ZVH re: your https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/22238170 joking aside, there are a few exceptions. For example, I remain interested in security vulnerabilities. One was fed to Apple in 2012 whilst I seed tested a build of Mac OS X 10.7.3.

… a bug that was comparable, potentially worse, in multiple versions of the operating system. I never bothered to test for it in Yosemite … something in MacRumors that suggests the existence of the bug in Yosemite. If so, then it has been disclosed publicly but not irresponsibly …

Today with OS X 10.11.1 in the mix, I find the vulnerability still present.

I'll request a CVE identifier; if Apple reproduced the vulnerability with neither follow-up to me nor a fix, then it may be in the public interest to make a responsible disclosure.

 

[Tech198]

I've been both a Mac and iDevice user for several years, and I'm not trying to blame Apple for this, but with the launches of the last lines of products, and particularly the software (looking at you, iOS 8...), is the famous Apple mantra "Everything just works" relevant anymore, or are we seeing a company getting to be too large to have the same quality control as before?

Not in any way, shape or form am I implying that Apple is doomed. Howsabout the people who read that into what I wrote retook their obviously failed elementary reading comprehension class?

In this day and age, nothing ever "just works"

 

[grahamperrin]

nothing ever "just works"

My YotaPhone 2 just works with eduroam and other networks. Most apps on that device do work. My second-hand eight-year old Sony TV works with a modern YouView box. My teasmade works. I'll probably find the kettle still working in five minutes' time. And so on.

Apple Notes no longer works properly with one or more of three Microsoft Exchange accounts from one of my two Exchange service providers, and iCloud-related synchronisation makes it unnecessarily difficult to identify the affected account(s), after many hours troubleshooting I gave up (and abandoned hope of Apple fixing the bug), it's simpler to just repeatedly escape from the authentication dialogue. And so on.

 

[tdale]

I've been both a Mac and iDevice user for several years, and I'm not trying to blame Apple for this, but with the launches of the last lines of products, and particularly the software (looking at you, iOS 8...), is the famous Apple mantra "Everything just works" relevant anymore, or are we seeing a company getting to be too large to have the same quality control as before?

Not in any way, shape or form am I implying that Apple is doomed. Howsabout the people who read that into what I wrote retook their obviously failed elementary reading comprehension class?

Agree, but its not as they are to large. They still have a small range of products, and the SoC allows them to optimise well, but their beta testing is just poor. I recall a couple of years ago when the stock price was easing, the board demanded innovation. So these days its only about the money.

 

[tdale]

In this day and age, nothing ever "just works"

As you well know, "it just works" is a phrase aligned with Apple, it doesn't literally mean to just works always. But that phrase is 100% irrelevant now as the products never just works, there are always issues. Other phrases that come to mind are "you don't know what you want, but Apple does" That is and always was BS. "Apple may not do it first, but they will do it right" Also BS

 

[tdale]

That's not true at all. By and large, everything DOES "just work". The point is that there have always been issues every once in a while. Always have been and always will be.

I use Windows 7 at home on my gaming rig, and before I switched, I used it all the time, I use it at work, it does in fact just work. Reliable as hell. Back in the day when I might have issues to resolve, they were always due to new tech, driver support for older Windows with the new tech, understandable. Not an issue that Apple users have to deal with as largely you cannot upgrade them. I never had basic issues that appear to escape Apples testing. Wifi issue are legendary with Apple. SMB2 file copy issues. Now El Capitan has broken Airplay on the new ATV4, which is a prime reason people use the ATV. Hopeless

 

[tdale]

I'd say this is objectively nonsense. Apple has an easier time optimizing their OS, given that they control the hardware, but that also means that it performs far better on that hardware. The massive discrepancy in battery life times on the same hardware running OS X and Windows is an example of this. You may prefer Windows over OS X for a myriad of reasons, but "OS X is buggier and runs worse" is a pretty poor one. Not to mention Microsoft hasn't been updating their software at anywhere near the rate of Apple. The most-used OS is as old as Mac OS 10.6; look at the massive amount of changes Apple has done since then compared to Windows.

Rubbish. Two PC's, same hardware, as in CPU, GPU, RAM, Apple's is circa 5% slower. take into account that they can optimise their hardware better as its fixed, make it worse. Their bug issues if the same, also make it worse, but they are more widespread and more simple, stupid bugs. Its a really poor comparison when Windows has many variations of hardware it can run on, many manufacturers, many mother boards. And when I go to copy a file in OSX, it tells me after its copied over wifi that it failed as the file was in use. Try agin, fail, try again, ok. BS

 

[grahamperrin]

… beta testing is just poor …

I understand why people might imagine that. However …

… membership of the AppleSeed programme proved, to me, often enough, that testing of software was thorough.

True: there are problems with (or affecting) Apple software, but I shouldn't rush to blame such problems on Apple's test/feedback routines.

… these days its only about the money.

Not only that, but there clearly is an obsession with money, and I find that obsession unhealthy. On shareholding:

… The more I think about OS X 10.10.x, the more I suspect that a few misguided people within Apple – people with inappropriate powers – felt a need to respond to pressure (from shareholders and from some media/marketing areas) by insisting upon release of 10.10 before the end of 2014. …

"it just works" is a phrase aligned with Apple,

Yep, https://web.archive.org/web/2009042...aders-administrators/the-apple-ecosystem.html and assertions such as Everything Apple means everything just works and Everything Apple means everything works together became memorable, not mockable, because those assertions were reasonable. There was evidence of a visionary, holistic approach to things working.

2009 was not a year of rushing things to market with an over-focus on fashion.

… Other phrases that come to mind are "you don't know what you want, but Apple does" That is and always was BS. …

Another Myth Bites The Dust: How Apple Listens To Its Customers (2011-08-26)

 

[Qbnkelt]

Very interesting read.
So this is where I go against the grain and state that for me, each iPhone and iOS has surpassed the last in reliability and usefulness.

 

[grahamperrin]

Outside of WWDC 2011 when Steve Jobs used the phrase "it just works" regarding iCloud had Apple ever used "it just works" or "everything just works" in marketing materials or on stage? …

Revisiting this, because my memory of things was recently muddled.

From Universal Serial Bus – The new standard for connecting peripherals. (1999-01, PDF):

… The USB experience is very similar to a Macintosh customer’s experience today when pluggingin a keyboard and mouse—it just works! …

From the iCloud section of Apple (Canada) - iPhone 4S - The most amazing iPhone yet. (the present, and captured in the Wayback Machine):

… stores your music, photos, documents, and more, and wirelessly pushes them to all your devices. Automatic, effortless, and seamless—it just works. iCloud is the easiest way to manage your content, because now you don’t have to.

From iPhone in Business - Profiles - RehabCare - Apple (KR) (UK version captured 2011-03-07 in the Wayback Machine):

… Jim O’Brien, Assistant Vice President of Technology Services. “iPhone excites them because they know it’s helping them provide better patient care.” …

 

[Zirel]

lol, no

 

[Tech198]

I've been both a Mac and iDevice user for several years, and I'm not trying to blame Apple for this, but with the launches of the last lines of products, and particularly the software (looking at you, iOS 8...), is the famous Apple mantra "Everything just works" relevant anymore, or are we seeing a company getting to be too large to have the same quality control as before?

Not in any way, shape or form am I implying that Apple is doomed. Hows about the people who read that into what I wrote retook their obviously failed elementary reading comprehension class?

I don't think we would, because its never been true (unless u have all Apple devices connected). however if by software alone, then no...

You can't expand, and still promise "everything just works" because it's just impossible, to get every little nitch always correct as u add features, services sand all..

The more u add, the worse it gets. Yes, Apple fixes stuff, but new stuff breaks it again or other stuff...

No different from any other company.

For example i have third party router, and contently have "graphics type' issues every time i use screen sharing even though i know I never get drop outs as my wi-fi is rock solid always, however I if i were to switch my router in with an Apple Airport extreme, or express, I would believe i would not have these black graphic artifact issues, just because Apple made it..

The 'Everything just works" used to be true, but Apple does soo much other stuff now-days (particularly the integrated syncing stuff of all types of services across one single icloud convenient service) just adds to the ball growing bigger.

I don't beleive anyone that can use Apple services and use all of their services: Apple music, photo stream, backup, and everything else, and they all play nice with one another 100% of the time.

 

[grahamperrin]

… integrated syncing stuff of all types of services across one single icloud convenient service …

I read that Apple may introduce iSync for Windows.

 

[AlphaHumanus]

When you look at any other company with their similar products and services, Apples just work. Still.

It's about comparison, like everything else. Not fact.