Ask me anything: I switched from Mac to Linux because of Apple's surveillance

[nickdalzell1]

Yeah we've definitely come a long way. Remember the hell of getting a WinModem to run on Linux?

Heck, I remember having to compile tar.gz files just to get the base install, then if that booted properly it was a whole other animal just to get a base X going.

 

[crymimefireworks]

How's your Linux journey?

I've been following Linus' journey on his Linux Challenge. I don't think the actual youtubes have been posted but he's been talking about his experience in LMG clips and this one for me sums up not only my experience but also the criticisms of Linux

Hi Mac friends,
A few months ago I switched to a System76 laptop from a 16" i9 Macbook Pro. I wanted to share my expectations going into the switch and my results so far. I wrote this for anyone else is thinking switching, I wanted to have this as something of a guide.

For $1500 I got a zippy Lemur Pro laptop with Pop! OS. It's small and weighs less than a Macbook Air. https://system76.com/laptops/lemur

I purchased from a Linux-first vendor, System76. Having the support team to answer my questions has been instrumental. I can write them any question about the system or hardware, and friendly Linux geeks respond and solve any issues. I would recommend System76 anyone curious about Linux.

On the other hand, trying to install Linux on random hardware and expecting "just works" functionality seems insane to me. You get what you pay for. For me, I just want a computer that works and I can afford paying for a laptop that includes email support by Linux geeks. As much as I like Pop OS, it's the software+hardware combo that matters.

Expectation 1: "It just works"
Overall, I'd say I'm satisfied here. Slack, Zoom, Brave, Signal are my core apps. All are solid. Managing the camera and mic is a bit odd at times, plugging in a headset brings up a popup to have it in headset or mic mode. Is it perfect? Nope, but it's improving quickly for noobs like me.

Expectation 2: "It will be less good"
Linux is better than I thought. I open the lid and the first key I press starts typing my password. On my MBP it takes a few seconds. My Mac UI generally feels a bit "slow" compared to Linux now.

Expectation 3: "Linux is scary"
Any time I have an issue ("how do i remap this key to be where command is"), I just email System76 support. They respond in a few hours. I don't bother searching reddit or whatever. The Linux community outside System76 is not for me however. Linux broadly is scary for me - Pop OS is friendly

Expectation 4: "iMessage is irreplaceable"
This is the hardest part. I've been slowly moving my contacts over to Signal. It's more like a 6 month project, not overnight. I have my iPhone in the meantime, still not sure when I'll replace that.

Expectation 5: iCloud is hard to replace
I was a heavy Notes user, synced across devices. I have been delightttted to switch to Standard Notes. All notes are end to end encrypted. It's the highlight of my switch to Linux. The other iClohd functions I haven't needed as much, but will work on replacing them in time. I have my iPad still but disabled all iCloud stuff. I'm surprised how less useful devices are when they dont have all my passwords, history, bookmarks loaded.

Overall, I would say if you can't afford a System76 laptop, avoid going to Linux just for the heck of it, it seems problematic.

System76 has incredible support and develops the hardware alongside the software. Happy other distros exist for people of all shapes and sizes. System76 with Pop! Os is the Best deal in the universe for Linux beginners like me.

 

[crymimefireworks]

I suspect not very well given how quiet he has gone on the subject.

forgot all about macrumors and have been using my new computer!

 

[WriteNow]

I wanted to share my expectations going into the switch and my results so far.

Thanks for the update!

Overall, I would say if you can't afford a System76 laptop, avoid going to Linux just for the heck of it, it seems problematic.

It may be worth noting there are other companies that specialize in Linux systems. But there is a real argument for buying from such a company--especially for a first time buyer.

I've used old Windows sytems, and they've worked for me. It helps, though, that they were older--so there was time for hardware to be supported. And I've had minor issues here and there.

 

[bensharma]

Interesting thread!

I've just put Manjaro on my 2013 Macbook Air and plain Arch on my 2015 Chromebook Pixel, both of which lost their OS updates from Apple and Google this year. I like it a lot, but I like tinkering. The pre-T2 chip Macs seem to be pretty well supported by now.

Not overly fussed about switching my 2019 Macbook Air over. I'm happy to use MacOS on it until it hits EOL for Apple, at which point I expect the Linux community will have figured those out and gotten their fixes into the mainline kernel.

The pure Linux laptops are tempting for my next machine, but Apple's industrial design is just so good. So I won't rush out of the Apple ecosystem -- I'll just straddle the two for awhile. But if FOSS improves and hits some baselines -- wireless charging, water resistance, and so on -- then I could move some mobile device uses over (phone, tablet, etc.)...

Edit, adding: after reading through the entire thread, I feel that my own Linux journey has been vindicated -- after the first few posts from the OP, I was all "he really should go and use Pop!_OS", the distro I initially put my 2013 MBA on, and sure enough, that's where he landed. The other gent who misses command-line work might do well with Arch (which doesn't even install a desktop environment to start with), tho I'm sure that the distro he now runs is fine.

Maybe I will get a Pinephone to play with, though...

 

[crymimefireworks]

Edit, adding: after reading through the entire thread, I feel that my own Linux journey has been vindicated -- after the first few posts from the OP, I was all "he really should go and use Pop!_OS", the distro I initially put my 2013 MBA on, and sure enough, that's where he landed.

Haha you called it! System76 and Pop is pretty dang sweet. Get one of their laptops if you have cash to spare. System76 feels like an early version of Apple - super responsive to bugs and feature requests, fighting for the user, and they're only getting started. It's way more fun than I thought it would be.

Maybe I will get a Pinephone to play with, though...

About that... I love Pinephone and want them to succeed. That said, I ordered one recently to check if was ready for me. It's not. It's not ready as a daily driver. For people that are really good with Linux I could see it being fun, it is a smartphone running Linux after all. But it's a year or two away from being a daily driver. Encourage all legit Linux hackers to go contribute and make it great!

 

[WriteNow]

have been using my new computer!

What? Using the computer? Is that allowed, instead of it being a status symbol to impress those at Starbucks, or to form fanboy alliances? LOL

 

[WriteNow]

The pure Linux laptops are tempting for my next machine, but Apple's industrial design is just so good.

Yes. And the laptops may do some things very well. I have little ability to compare, but I always hear commentary about Apple trackpads being top tier (and some at some points some even say there is nothing competitive elsewhere). Even now, in an era when I'm disinclined to buy anything from Apple, I have thought the M1 laptops could be tempting under some circumstances--they have a long list of pluses.

Many years ago, I'd sometimes hear of people who bought Apple hardware new with the intention of using it for Linux from day 1. They felt the hardware was somehow worth it. I think Linus Torvalds even did this. (Back then, I think the hardware was easier to work with under Linux than is the case now.)

So I won't rush out of the Apple ecosystem -- I'll just straddle the two for awhile.

I personally don't see any reason not to straddle two--or even more platforms. I suppose an idealistic argument can be made for embracing Linux 100%--but there are many practical arguments for having different platforms available to one.

As I've said before, I'm currently pretty much Linux-only for my daily driver needs. But there was a period when I had a Macintosh in daily service for productivity work in addition to the Linux system. The application software for Linux didn't work for me back then. I could see myself doing that sort of thing again. I'm not sure I'd want to use Apple as my only computer--but I could see having a modern Mac used for specific tasks.

 

[WriteNow]

As for the Pine Phone, what I've been hearing pretty consistently is that it's not viable--at least not here in the US. Maybe one day... "In a year or two" might be optimistic--I wouldn't be surprised if someone wasn't saying that 2 years ago.

Right now, the best real world choice is some sort of deGoogled Android device. Although this is far from ideal. It's not something you can just casually buy. And some apps won't work. But it's the best privacy respecting real world choice we have right now. It would be nice if someone could create a reasonably priced deGoogled Android phone that could be readily sold.

 

[bensharma]

Right now, the best real world choice is some sort of deGoogled Android device. Although this is far from ideal. It's not something you can just casually buy. And some apps won't work. But it's the best privacy respecting real world choice we have right now. It would be nice if someone could create a reasonably priced deGoogled Android phone that could be readily sold.

Funnily enough, right now that's the Pixel -- because it's one of the few (or the only?) Android phone that lets you unlock and relock your bootloader. Best option for CalyxOS or GrapheneOS.

Thought about that option, but I think at that point the iPhone as-is still compares pretty favourably, in terms of being able to ask apps not to track.

About that... I love Pinephone and want them to succeed. That said, I ordered one recently to check if was ready for me. It's not. It's not ready as a daily driver. For people that are really good with Linux I could see it being fun, it is a smartphone running Linux after all. But it's a year or two away from being a daily driver. Encourage all legit Linux hackers to go contribute and make it great!

Yeah the environment clearly isn't there yet, and the hardware too. I want wireless charging and water resistance, over and above being able to use all the services I want. But after my excellent experience with the 2013 MBA on Manjaro Linux, I do want to try its touch version sooner or later...

Haha you called it! System76 and Pop is pretty dang sweet. Get one of their laptops if you have cash to spare. System76 feels like an early version of Apple - super responsive to bugs and feature requests, fighting for the user, and they're only getting started. It's way more fun than I thought it would be.

They seem to be the best of the pure Linux providers, yes. I won't be in the market for new hardware for another couple of years, but their fourteen-inch laptop looks very promising.

Many years ago, I'd sometimes hear of people who bought Apple hardware new with the intention of using it for Linux from day 1. They felt the hardware was somehow worth it. I think Linus Torvalds even did this. (Back then, I think the hardware was easier to work with under Linux than is the case now.)

Torvalds was using an 11-inch MBA, either a 2012 or 2013 model I think.

The wifi has always been an issue because Broadcom doesn't release open drivers, but by now the community has that pretty well-handled. So at this point everything in the pre-2016 devices has been sorted out. (Tho one has to be super-careful about overheating with some MBPs.) The introduction of the T1 and T2 chips complicates things, however...

I suspect issues will always get sorted out by the community eventually, but "new" hardware simply won't work. So if I want bleeding edge hardware, go for the purpose-built. For now, the idea that I can move my old hardware over as Apple drops its own support, for a few more years of life -- that appeals. The 2013 Air really is running well on its new OS. (First Pop!_OS, now Manjaro.)

 

[WriteNow]

Funnily enough, right now that's the Pixel -- because it's one of the few (or the only?) Android phone that lets you unlock and relock your bootloader. Best option for CalyxOS or GrapheneOS.

I've thought it kind of ironic that the Pixels have become the favored Android phone for deGoogling!

For now, the idea that I can move my old hardware over as Apple drops its own support, for a few more years of life -- that appeals.

That is very appealing!

 

[bensharma]

That is very appealing!

It's like Chromebooks. They're fine for what they are, and when they get to the age that Google drops support -- all right, fine, time to put a full Linux distro on it instead of taking it to Best Buy for their e-waste dropoff bins.

I do hope that Apple becomes more open to tinkering on their hardware again, though. I feel like they've been on a bad path since 2016 or so, that way. (Maybe even 2012, when they started soldering their RAM?) I understand why -- they want their hardware to have the "best" software base it can have, and people break things. But locking everything down fully takes the joy out of it.

I know that virtual machines on MacOS can do most of this, but it isn't the same thing.