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Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,791
394
the rub is that given how easily it dents, it seems as though apple should be more lenient on their "we don't warranty damaged/dented goods policy."
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories in general, but sometimes I wonder if Apple is deliberately choosing scratch- and dent-prone designs, to force you to pay extra for cases, skins and "socks", and to make second-hand specimen look so awful that people will give up looking for used ones and buy new. Plastic, for all its faults, tends to stay fresh. This Dell notebook I'm typing on is 3 years old and plastic all over, but it looks spanking new. And every Nokia and SonyEricsson cellphone I have in my retired gadgets drawer looks good too, despite never having been protected by any case or whatever. My iPods on the other hand look miserable, the chrome they used on the back to get that mirror effect will scratch if you look at it funny. I even have the 1st gen iPod Nano, the one that was so scratch-prone someone filed a lawsuit (the glass would go from clear to frosted within a couple of weeks, just from rubbing against pocket lint). And my friend's MBA looks like someone went ice skating on it. The only Apple gadgets I have that don't look heavily used are the Mighty Mouse and a white iPhone 3G. I have a really hard time buying that their industrial designers can do all these amazing things like laser-carved unibodies and ultra-thin iPods but have absolutely no idea how to produce surfaces that can withstand normal wear and tear without looking like sh*t after a week. It has to be intentional.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,791
394
I hear that all the time...my 10 years old car looks/drives like brand new.:confused:
Well there are people who take care of their stuff and people who don't. My anal retentive neighbor vacuums his Ford once a week and sits on some cover thingy to protect the seats. But some things simply can't be saved, like this 1st gen iPod Nano of mine. It used to contract new scratches when I wiped it off with a soft, clean cloth. Front and back. Then it reached a tipping point where the scratches became so numerous that you could no longer distinguish any single scratch, it's gone from a chrome look to more of a brushed aluminium look.
 

techound1

macrumors 68000
Mar 3, 2006
1,977
7
like this 1st gen iPod Nano of mine. It used to contract new scratches when I wiped it off with a soft, clean cloth. Front and back. Then it reached a tipping point where the scratches became so numerous that you could no longer distinguish any single scratch, it's gone from a chrome look to more of a brushed aluminium look.

Go get yourself a piece of that nano scratch settlement money!
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
I would blame Apple. They shouldn't make a portable product that can't withstand a 2 foot drop without suffering $1000 in damages.

Like another poster said, make sure your next laptop is the Thinkpad x200

I strongly disagree. No computer is expected to be DROPPED. It was an accident, but Apple should not be required to ensure MBAs are not going to suffer damage from being dropped.

An MBA is a designer notebook. With the image comes consequences to being dropped. Besides, he didn't say the MBA doesn't work. It has a nick on the corner, I would expect it if I dropped my MBA.

It sucks, but it isn't Apple's fault... and it still works fine.
 

tubbymac

macrumors 65816
Nov 6, 2008
1,074
1
It's a trade off I'm willing to accept. I wasn't under any mistaken assumption that the Air was built like a tank. Nor do I expect it to take a beating and survive a fall unscathed. It was sold as a super thin, highly fashionable, portable machine and that's exactly what it is. If the later revisions get even thinner and more fragile but include more power under the hood and look better, I'm still going to buy another one.
 

dudeitsjay

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 26, 2009
197
0
You have to be there and see the fall to see how ridiculous the resulting damage is... In terms of design, I would've preferred the entire bottom aluminum plate to cover up to the corner, and have the top unibody chassis to snap in place onto the bottom plate. That way, by design, you are limiting a majority of potential, and inevitable, damage to a $60 component...
 

mhnajjar

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2008
777
0
Sorry OP, but this is known for all the aluminum MBs in general. It is NOT just the air.

However, the newer ones (unibodies) are way more resistant than the older ones made of thin aluminum (just check how many MBP suffered from this exact same issue).

However, this is the price you pay for getting a cool sexy laptop made with aluminum casing!

Sorry for your loss and I hope that you find a way to compensate for it.
 

IgnatiusTheKing

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2007
3,657
2
Texas
However, this is the price you pay for getting a cool sexy laptop made with aluminum casing!

Don't forget, the MBA is made with thin aluminum because it's made to be very lightweight and "ultraportable" and, as such, should not be expected to withstand any sort of fall.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,791
394
Even though aluminium has a bit of, er, silly putty quality to it, it's still the best choice for the job at hand... harder isn't always better. Titanium has the best strength-to-weight ratio of all metals on the planet, but the TiBooks were notorious for breaking. Specifically, they cracked around the hinges.

It's simply the price of admission for riding the Apple rollercoaster... you get cool looking, innovative hardware like the TiBook, the Cube, the unibodies, the iMacs... but due to their unique constructions they haven't gone extensive real world testing -- you're buying experimental hardware. No wonder it cracks, breaks and overheats. It's exactly like buying a Citroën in the 1960's, sure you get to ride a spaceship with 4 wheels, but don't look so surprised over having to repair it once a week.
 

dudeitsjay

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 26, 2009
197
0
Even though aluminium has a bit of, er, silly putty quality to it, it's still the best choice for the job at hand... harder isn't always better. Titanium has the best strength-to-weight ratio of all metals on the planet, but the TiBooks were notorious for breaking. Specifically, they cracked around the hinges.

It's simply the price of admission for riding the Apple rollercoaster... you get cool looking, innovative hardware like the TiBook, the Cube, the unibodies, the iMacs... but due to their unique constructions they haven't gone extensive real world testing -- you're buying experimental hardware. No wonder it cracks, breaks and overheats. It's exactly like buying a Citroën in the 1960's, sure you get to ride a spaceship with 4 wheels, but don't look so surprised over having to repair it once a week.

I'm curious as to a second implication for using aluminum. Since the G4 aluminum casing, I've heard that apple is using aluminum also to act as an overall heatsink as well as a casing. I can see that working, and not working (aka burning my lap like when i first got the MBA)... Anyone know for certain if the aluminum design was also intended purposefully as a heatsink mechanism?
 

pdxflint

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2006
2,407
14
Oregon coast
Think of it like a crush zone in a car... it absorbs the energy, deforms, but protects the insides better than a solid, hard case.

Aluminum is a soft metal, very bendable. I used to work with it a lot on aircraft. It is quite strong for its weight, and can be turned into some very rigid structures, but it can also be bent, punched through and can oxidize in its pure form. I imagine the whole issue of material is one of cost vs. benefits, and aluminum came out the winner.

Speaking of Thinkpads - I had one for 7 years before it died. Yes, it was rugged and durable, but both sides of the case on right and left of keyboard along the edges, cracked after a couple of years of use. Also, bits of plastic would crack off in places, usually where there was some seam or edge. The main cracks in the top case near the keyboard came about by simply opening and closing the lid repeatedly. I just lived with it, but it was not classy seeing the cracks open up each time I adjusted the screen tilt. All cosmetic, but I honestly can't say the plastic in the Thinkpads is any more rugged than the aluminum in the Macbook Pros. My MBP is a year old, and I use it the same way, and it looks pretty good, and still feels tight and new. I can't speak for the unibody models... but the previous versions were a lot better constructed than most people here will admit. Especially in the later revisions MBP Classics.
 

sushi

Moderator emeritus
Jul 19, 2002
15,639
3
キャンプスワ&#
OP, sorry to hear that you dropped your MBA. Edge impact can be severe.

If you actually need a machine that can withstand anything, there are PC laptops out there for that. Panasonic Toughbook, Dell Latitude XFR etc.

This torture test video pretty much says it all... I could barely watch the 'waterboarding' part: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/24/durable-faceoff-and-torture-test-panasonics-toughbook-30-vs-g/
Nice website.

Reminds me of the HP110 Portable Plus. This computer came out in the 80's. HP did quite a torture test on it. One was a 3 foot drop directly onto concrete. Another one was connecting it via a cable to a 3 foot pole sticking up from pickup truck bed then driving through the desert. That computer was durable, heavy and expensive.

I would never view the Apple line up as tough computers. Built better than some, but not laptops that you can bang around a lot and have them survive.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,791
394
I'm curious as to a second implication for using aluminum. Since the G4 aluminum casing, I've heard that apple is using aluminum also to act as an overall heatsink as well as a casing. I can see that working, and not working (aka burning my lap like when i first got the MBA)... Anyone know for certain if the aluminum design was also intended purposefully as a heatsink mechanism?
Makes perfect sense.

One of the many problems with the titanium PB G4 was that you could fry eggs on it, Apple were so hell bent on making it thin that the cooling wasn't given due attention.

One could suspect that the use of aluminium was born out of that, or out of desperately trying to get a mobile version of the G5 into a PowerBook while still keeping it cool and even thinner than the last one (as always). So maybe they figured hey, let's turn the whole body into one giant heatsink while also making it lighter, killing two birds with one stone, and the alu G4 was born.

Funny metal, that... apparently it's the third most common element in the earth's crust, after oxygen and silicon. I used to think it was relatively rare, compared to iron or copper, but the stuff is everywhere.

sushi said:
I would never view the Apple line up as tough computers. Built better than some, but not laptops that you can bang around a lot and have them survive.
They're well built and rigid, but the drawback of the enclosures being so thin, with the components so tightly packed, is that there's no room for stuff like the shock mounted hard drives you'll find in some PC notebooks.

I remember another torture test video from a few years ago where they subjected a Dell Latitude to various stress tests -- this wasn't one of the rugged models like the XFR, just a standard Latitude, and the point of the test wasn't to see how much the machine could take before the enclosure cracked (it did), but to see how much it could take and still run. So they dropped it on carpets, then wooden floors, then marble floors (from various heights), they spilled coffee on it, had a go at it with a hammer, etc. It looked like garbage, but it would still boot just fine -- they didn't manage to kill it completely. Not sure what would happen to a UMBP subjected to a similar test... the body would probably be a little banged up and bent, maybe some cracks on the screen and the trackpad, possibly a dead hard drive.
 

dudeitsjay

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 26, 2009
197
0
Very nice link!

OP, I think you shouldn't cry about such extremely minor damage

$800 in damage to a $1700 product is extremely minor. This is precisely the point I am trying to make. The minor damage relative to the exorbitant cost. If you're not crying over this, you're wiping your ass with benjamins. But, I doubt that. I don't usually reply to idiots =\.

Anuba, I agree that the heatsink idea kills 2 birds with one stone, but I'm thinking it would bring two more birds into the equation. 1) Wouldn't aluminum retain the heat more relative to other material such as plastic? 2) heatsink on a bottom of a LAPtop = burn your lap. lol
 

dudeitsjay

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 26, 2009
197
0
someone, point me out too this damage, i'm lost

On the MBA, it would be the top right corner of laptop in accordance to the keyboard. That corner, where the bottom right of the monitor meets the top right of the unibody, is where the monitor corner bent inwards.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
$800 in damage to a $1700 product is extremely minor. This is precisely the point I am trying to make. The minor damage relative to the exorbitant cost. If you're not crying over this, you're wiping your ass with benjamins. But, I doubt that. I don't usually reply to idiots =\.

Anuba, I agree that the heatsink idea kills 2 birds with one stone, but I'm thinking it would bring two more birds into the equation. 1) Wouldn't aluminum retain the heat more relative to other material such as plastic? 2) heatsink on a bottom of a LAPtop = burn your lap. lol

Wait a minute, it still runs. Not like it costs $800 to make it play iTunes or check email. It is COSMETIC damage. It's minor. Cars have been mentioned and are perfect analogy. And an extremely cosmetic dent on a high end car could cost a small fortune to fix; but that doesn't mean the car cannot get you to work in the morning or to the Apple Store.

I would like to know if the Kenneth Cole "designer" bag was fully padded. As I seriously doubt a fully padded "computer" bag would have let that happen. I own a Coach designer tote, and I am fully aware that it is not true computer bag and will not protect my MBA. Also, sleeves only protect from surface scratches and do not have padding to stop dents.

The problem with owning the MBA, is that those like me don't want to carry around a heavily padded computer bag that would weigh three times more than my MBA. So, if I drop my computer, in a sleeve, in my Coach bag, I expect it to dent. It is the risk that comes with being designer and truly ultra portable.

So it sucks, but it is exactly what I expect if I accidentally drop my MBA from even six inches from the ground.

Sorry again, but let's be accountable for our own actions.
 

tubbymac

macrumors 65816
Nov 6, 2008
1,074
1
$800 in damage to a $1700 product is extremely minor. This is precisely the point I am trying to make. The minor damage relative to the exorbitant cost.

That's one thing I do agree with you on. Anything that happens to the top panel, including dents, nicks, or the hinge breaking, requires the whole piece to be replaced and costs a silly amount of money. The least Apple could do in this case is reduce some of the ridiculously high margins they charge on these repairs.

The way I see repairs is that you're dealing with a customer who has already made a leap of faith to switch to Apple over the competition. You're also dealing with a customer who is probably already irate over the amount of time they have to spend getting their machine repaired. Nickle and diming people at this point is just stupid corporate blindness and greed at work.
 

dwsolberg

macrumors 6502a
Dec 17, 2003
861
836
You have to be there and see the fall to see how ridiculous the resulting damage is... In terms of design, I would've preferred the entire bottom aluminum plate to cover up to the corner, and have the top unibody chassis to snap in place onto the bottom plate. That way, by design, you are limiting a majority of potential, and inevitable, damage to a $60 component...

I think it's a balance between light weight, good looks, functionality, and durability. Apple's new notebooks are pretty durable for everything except drops. So far I've been lucky and haven't dropped any notebooks in 10 years, but it does happen. I guess I'd rather have the light weight as a first priority, but I do think that Apple could work on improving drop resistance because it does happen to lots of people.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,791
394
The way I see repairs is that you're dealing with a customer who has already made a leap of faith to switch to Apple over the competition. You're also dealing with a customer who is probably already irate over the amount of time they have to spend getting their machine repaired. Nickle and diming people at this point is just stupid corporate blindness and greed at work.
Exactly. The way it should work is... sure, let the price of admission to the Mac amusement park be high, but make it worth it by offering excellent service once you're inside.

Look at the money that Dell has spent to keep me happy, a motherboard broke down, I called them, they came here and switched it out. Two days later it broke down again (the actual fault was the power supply, which had now broken the second replacement mobo). OK, clumsy diagnostics there but it's a consequence of giving you new parts just based on the problem description over the phone, otherwise it would take much longer. Two new motherboard (not refurbed) and a power supply, plus two trips to my place and the serviceman's hourly fee. Afterwards one person called me to do a survey about my overall impression of the support experience, and another (some high-ranking dude at their business support office) called to apologize for screwing up and discussed how they could avoid these screwups in the future.

Then there's AppleCare, snarky on the phone, no home repairs, pinching pennies... that's not right, they should spend some of that hefty margin to make an effort to make Dell's service look bad by comparison. Especially if they want a chunk out of those business customers who are reluctant to switch to begin with. Heck, the Dell guy who came around the second time was even more helpful with my broken iMac (oddly it died only two days before the Dell PC did) than Apple was. He didn't repair it (duh) but he happened to know some guys who do service on Macs, gave me some names of the right guys to talk to and told me to say hello from him.
 
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