Base iMac Pro vs Loaded BTO iMac 2020

[fokmik]

I do a lot of development on both xcode and .net (windows) but also would like to game in windows.

For that, the 2020 will be better

 

[pldelisle]

Then I probably wasn't talking to you

Are you always condescending like that?

He posted some apps that, if the files the files are large enough and require complex rendering, the differences between the two machines can be hours (if days, he needs a Mac Pro 7.1). He never mentioned mentioned anything that would let me know exactly — likewise, he didn't offer you guys any information to justify your claims, either.

Without context — and there still is none here — your pronouncements that something is or is not correct are worthless.

He gave enough insight to let me say it would be totally pointless to go with iMP.

The argument that the current iMP will be obsolete sooner than a 2020 using the same architecture is just silly.

They will both be obsolete at the same time. But I would never pay 6000$ CAD for 3 years old hardware. Never.

Again, lost in the fog is that I have A/B'd the two machines on typical work files just last week. Then I sold my 14 Core and bought an 18 Core.

Good for you.

 

[mikehalloran]

They will both be obsolete at the same time. But I would never pay 6000$ CAD for 3 years old hardware. Never.

Then don't. No one is asking that you do. I make my living on my iMP and the cost/benefit works in my favor. The 10 Core 2020 cannot do what I need and I tested it. The 10 Core iMac Pro can but it would be slooooow. You seem to keep missing that I have addressed the topic of this thread exactly.

…
He gave enough insight to let me say it would be totally pointless to go with iMP.

Not at all, but if you think so, believe what you want.

Are you always condescending like that?

I was trying to be helpful. Interpret it how you like.

You keep beating the false equivalency dead horse and it's hard to respect such arguments. Much of the technology in the modern automobile is over 125 years old. That argument is just as valid as your "3 years old hardware" nonsense. Just because something is true doesn't mean it's valid. In fact, one bit of tech in a Mac goes back to 1873 while another bit has been around since 1828. So what? Neither of those facts are germane either.

 

[mikehalloran]

I have hands on experience and stated my results.

 

[pldelisle]

Hahahahahahahah

nice

You are the conscending one

And *I* get moderated.

This is getting non-sense.

Thanks for reporting. F*ck that. I’m out. Good bye.

 

[Freida]

At first I thought you were just justifying your purchase and used the OP's question to make yourself feel better about it. However, after this post below, I've realised that its not the case. You just seem to want to pick miniscule 'battles' or you just want to troll. Either way, I'll leave it here. My advice to OP still stands and I feel its a sounds advice. If you want to have a nonsensical 'arguments' about it then leave me out of it. (and Pldelisle too most likely)
Thank you and have a nice day

I gave you a real world way to find out. If your tasks don't take that long, then you should be ok.

I don't spend that kind of money for "a couple of minutes". But yes, if that's the real difference.

Then I probably wasn't talking to you.


But you don't know and constantly post as if you do — and that's my point. Advice is worthless without knowing the tasks at hand.

He posted some apps that, if the files the files are large enough and require complex rendering, the differences between the two machines can be hours (if days, he needs a Mac Pro 7.1). He never mentioned mentioned anything that would let me know exactly — likewise, he didn't offer you guys any information to justify your claims, either.

Without context — and there still is none here — your pronouncements that something is or is not correct are worthless.


Minutes, hours, days, weeks — depends on the layers, project and its length. I have access to a 28 Core 7.1 with a pair of Vega Pro II Duo + Afterburner and a $150k Maya Box for the really heavy lifting — but not here. The more I get done here, the better.



Neither of you seem to know enough about this subject to be having this conversation with me. The 2020, iMP and 7.1 are using 3 versions of recent Intel CPUs—there's no magic here. It's a very safe bet that, as long as Apple is supporting Intel architecture, all 3 will still run the latest OS.

In three years, it's likely that all will be replaced by ARM but even then, Apple will support the last Intel OS for three years after its release — California, EU and other laws apply. The argument that the current iMP will be obsolete sooner than a 2020 using the same architecture is just silly.

Again, lost in the fog is that I have A/B'd the two machines on typical work files just last week. Then I sold my 14 Core and bought an 18 Core.

 

[mikehalloran]

At first I thought you were just justifying your purchase and used the OP's question to make yourself feel better about it.

Not at all. I bought and still have both of those machines and get to compare them side-by-side. You do not own either and continually make arguments not based on fact.

I stand by my recommendations and, now having owned both machines for the better part of a year, wouldn't change a thing. The fully loaded 2020 iMac is very good but the iMac Pro blows it out of the water doing AV — which is how I make my living these days.

 

[Freida]

Only a crazy person would buy iMac Pro these days. Unless its for fraction of its cost its pure insanity.
Recommending it is even worse.

Not at all. I bought and still have both of those machines and get to compare them side-by-side. You do not own either and continually make arguments not based on fact.

I stand by my recommendations and, now having owned both machines for the better part of a year, wouldn't change a thing. The fully loaded 2020 iMac is very good but the iMac Pro blows it out of the water doing AV — which is how I make my living these days.

 

[TriApple]

Only a crazy person would buy iMac Pro these days. Unless its for fraction of its cost its pure insanity.
Recommending it is even worse.

Recognizing I am WFH for most of this year likely I "side graded" over the holidays from a 15" 2019 MBP (i9, 32gb, 2tb, Vega 20) to an iMac Pro (8-core, 32gb, 2tb, Vega 56). It is like new condition and was purchased at $2500.

I've been using it for about a week and the first thing I noticed is how silent it is compared to a MBP setup (even with an eGPU paired to it - which I am also using with the iMac Pro to drive displays [5700 XT]).

I would imagine the iMac Pro will run solid as the center of my workflow for a couple years. 15" MBP is headed to swappa and will be replaced with an m1 air for travel when that returns to my life.

If you can find these deals (and there are several out there, having just searched this) you can find a pricing sweet spot.

Would the 2020 iMac BTO be faster for my specific workflows? Maybe? For gaming? I'd probably get a few more FPS by not using an eGPU 5700xt, but honestly, iMac Pro + eGPU for displays is an amazing setup that I expect to be worry free and stable AF.

 

[mikehalloran]

Only a crazy person would buy iMac Pro these days. Unless its for fraction of its cost its pure insanity.
Recommending it is even worse.

Wow. You just can’t leave it alone when someone disagrees with you.

You have no experience with the machines in question and don’t know what you’re talking about. All you’re doing is guessing and you’re wrong. Repeating the same nonsense over and over does not change this.

Time saved=Money earned. If the loaded 2020 could have worked for me, I would have kept it and bought a second for my wife. Instead, I bought another iMac Pro for myself and gave her the 2020 which is working nicely for her.

It’s possible that I may to upgrade to Apple Silicon when the iMac Pro replacement is released. Won’t know till that happens. Till then, I’m good.

 

[Freida]

In this case I kinda agree with you. If one can get really good price then it makes sense. So in your case it was a steal to be honest. I was talking Apple prices though. $5k pre tax is just insane for the product that is in many aspects worse than loaded iMac.
Anyway, good for you, enjoy the machine - its awesome for that price

Recognizing I am WFH for most of this year likely I "side graded" over the holidays from a 15" 2019 MBP (i9, 32gb, 2tb, Vega 20) to an iMac Pro (8-core, 32gb, 2tb, Vega 56). It is like new condition and was purchased at $2500.

I've been using it for about a week and the first thing I noticed is how silent it is compared to a MBP setup (even with an eGPU paired to it - which I am also using with the iMac Pro to drive displays [5700 XT]).

I would imagine the iMac Pro will run solid as the center of my workflow for a couple years. 15" MBP is headed to swappa and will be replaced with an m1 air for travel when that returns to my life.

If you can find these deals (and there are several out there, having just searched this) you can find a pricing sweet spot.

Would the 2020 iMac BTO be faster for my specific workflows? Maybe? For gaming? I'd probably get a few more FPS by not using an eGPU 5700xt, but honestly, iMac Pro + eGPU for displays is an amazing setup that I expect to be worry free and stable AF.

 

[Freida]

And yet it was you who decided to respond after almost 3 monhts. Talking about hypocrisy, shall we?

I'm not guess first of all and second of all I stand by my statement. You are trolling here and have been "challenged" by others and yet you keep validating yourself. Suit yourself, to me time saved from reading your comments = higher IQ

Wow. You just can’t leave it alone when someone disagrees with you.

You have no experience with the machines in question and don’t know what you’re talking about. All you’re doing is guessing and you’re wrong. Repeating the same nonsense over and over does not change this.

Time saved=Money earned. If the loaded 2020 could have worked for me, I would have kept it and bought a second for my wife. Instead, I bought another iMac Pro for myself and gave her the 2020 which is working nicely for her.

It’s possible that I may to upgrade to Apple Silicon when the iMac Pro replacement is released. Won’t know till that happens. Till then, I’m good.

 

[TriApple]

In this case I kinda agree with you. If one can get really good price then it makes sense. So in your case it was a steal to be honest. I was talking Apple prices though. $5k pre tax is just insane for the product that is in many aspects worse than loaded iMac.
Anyway, good for you, enjoy the machine - its awesome for that price

Yeah, I agree with all your points here. No way I'd buy this at list in 2021. But there are some steals out there at 2400-2800 bucks and if its the right machine for someone, that's a solid price.

TBH, this is a stopgap machine for me until there is an Apple Silicon solution that fits my needs.

 

[hoodafoo]

I steered clear of the 2017 iMuc Pro because it could be affected by the Meltdown & Spectre cpu bug. I think Apple patched it, but at the cost of ~20% performance hit

 

[haddy]

Go with the BTO 2020. The iMac Pro for what it's worth seems dead. The anti-glare coat didn't make it on there as an option and it's nearly impossible to upgrade without taking it halfway apart.

The iMac 2020 has a faster chip (even if you don't opt for the 10-core) and the ram is user replaceable and can go up to 128GBs. Even the GPU options are more up-to-date.

The only thing you'd be missing ... I mean REALLY missing, are the two extra thunderbolt 3 ports.

Yep I have the maxed out 2020 iMac including the nano glass and 10G ethernet.
I have solved the T3 port problem by buying OWC's T3 hub. Works great.
Running 10.15.7. This would be the best Mac (touch wood) I have had since the 1989 SE30

 

[Freida]

I bought 2020 iMac as I thought it would be great for me but when I saw the AS I have returned it and decided to wait for the AS iMac. So I completely understand the stopgap thing.
The iMac we will be getting will be very good. The only worry for me is GPU but according to rumours we should get some decent performance. 5700XT is pretty much minimum they need to aim for even though it will be 2+ years old tech. This next WWDC will certainly be interesting : )

Yeah, I agree with all your points here. No way I'd buy this at list in 2021. But there are some steals out there at 2400-2800 bucks and if its the right machine for someone, that's a solid price.

TBH, this is a stopgap machine for me until there is an Apple Silicon solution that fits my needs.

 

[TriApple]

I bought 2020 iMac as I thought it would be great for me but when I saw the AS I have returned it and decided to wait for the AS iMac. So I completely understand the stopgap thing.
The iMac we will be getting will be very good. The only worry for me is GPU but according to rumours we should get some decent performance. 5700XT is pretty much minimum they need to aim for even though it will be 2+ years old tech. This next WWDC will certainly be interesting : )

Sounds like we have similar hopes. GPU performance or eGPU compatibility for Apple Silicon will have me jump right away and it will likely last a while.

I got my wife the Air to replace her intel 2020 air and the real world performance difference is borderline insane. Not to mention the thermals.

 

[Freida]

Yeah, we do

I'm on 2017 MBP but I never liked this form factor so I can't wait to jump on proper computer. Or, if the Mac Pro Mini is released that would be a likely candidate also but only if they also release a standalone display that is not insanely priced like XDR. So I guess my best bet for now will be AS iMac

Sounds like we have similar hopes. GPU performance or eGPU compatibility for Apple Silicon will have me jump right away and it will likely last a while.

I got my wife the Air to replace her intel 2020 air and the real world performance difference is borderline insane. Not to mention the thermals.

 

[HDFan]

Only a crazy person would buy iMac Pro these days. Unless its for fraction of its cost its pure insanity.
Recommending it is even worse.

The 18 cpu iMac Pro with 1 TB of SSD and 32 GB of memory at $6599 is almost $2k cheaper than a similarly configured MacPro at $8399. Both have roughly the same cpu performance, and the iMac Pro includes the monitor which makes it maybe $3k cheaper.

There are a lot of reasons one might choose one over another (iMac Pro update this year, Mac Pro configurability), but it can make a lot of sense in some cases.

 

[mikehalloran]

The 18 cpu iMac Pro with 1 TB of SSD and 32 GB of memory at $6599 is almost $2k cheaper than a similarly configured MacPro at $8399. Both have roughly the same cpu performance, and the iMac Pro includes the monitor which makes it maybe $3k cheaper.

There are a lot of reasons one might choose one over another (iMac Pro update this year, Mac Pro configurability), but it can make a lot of sense in some cases.

Yep. My other choice was a Mac Pro 7.1. Not counting a monitor, there were some in the Refurb Store that would have worked as well or better — @ $6k–$10k more… Then there's the 5K monitor @ $1,400 for the same one you get built into the iMac and iMac Pro. Yikes! I have a pair of 27" LG 4K monitors on the sides of my iMP so I can see the differences every day. I have to look at these 8–12 hours every day. Let's just say that I'm spoiled.

 

[uller6]

I have a base 8 core iMac Pro thats a few years old now, and no contest it’s been the best computer I’ve ever owned. It’s been an incredible machine - silent, stable, and fast. I have a 2019 5k iMac on my desk at work. for day to day tasks they’re both plenty snappy. But the defining difference for me is that the iMac 5k runs way louder and hotter. Running full out for hours brings my iMac Pro CPU to 60C and the GPU to 75c with a nice quiet whoosh. The iMac 5k pegs the cpu at 100C and GPU at 98C after less than 30s of full load, and sounds like a jet engine when doing so. I hate fan noise, and my sanity is worth the additional cost for the iMac pro.

 

[HDFan]

I steered clear of the 2017 iMuc Pro because it could be affected by the Meltdown & Spectre cpu bug. I think Apple patched it, but at the cost of ~20% performance hit

The patches have negligible impact in the majority of cases, 2.5% at most.

About speculative execution vulnerabilities in ARM-based and Intel CPUs - Apple Support

support.apple.com

 

[mikehalloran]

I steered clear of the 2017 iMuc Pro because it could be affected by the Meltdown & Spectre cpu bug. I think Apple patched it, but at the cost of ~20% performance hit

Nonsense. First off, there was no bug. It was a security flaw in the Intel CPUs and that's a big difference.

Everyone had to patch it — as Apple did in the Spring of 2018. Despite all the armchair expert dire warnings in January 2018, the real world performance hit depended on workload and the actual CPU. Apple reported 0%–2% with an average closer to 0% while Microsoft reported 2%-6% with an average of 2.5% as was noted.

 

[jtaylorau]

currently have both iMac & iMac Pro you notice the difference
originally iMac 2020 going replace iMac Pro 8 core due to warranty was expiring soon, in last few months had a major failure system replaced with a 10 core
find iMac Pro with Big Sur more stable less noisy more port you can also attach more monitors too it
iMac with Big Sur not a stable some early 2020 iMac have display glitches coming out of standby and shut down

would stay away from macOS catalina asking for trouble on both
If you got the money iMac Pro better as they got most software bugs out of it now other hand iMac still needs a bit of tweaking

best choice at moment m1 MacBook Pro with LG 5K

 

[mikehalloran]

would stay away from macOS catalina asking for trouble on both

Both my 2020 27" iMac and my iMac Pro are running trouble-free over Catalina.

I've configured a dual-boot from an external for Big Sur on my iMac Pro. Some of my apps are not yet OS 11 compatible so it's a test machine only. Only when my apps are ready, will I make the update for real. I'm not in a hurry.