Do either of you dock your MacBook Pro to a 5k or 4k display? Curios how heat/fan is impacted in that usage mode.
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Be honest: Do you have buyer’s remorse, re your “new” MBP following the latest keynote?
- Thread starter The Cockney Rebel
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No, the Macbook Pro 2021 Max is not overkill as I need the power for video work. Don’t need Centre Stage as straight forward camera for Zooming and facetime is fine. Portability is important when doing video work.
Macbook Pro 2021 hit the mark…Apple…don’t slow it down to make us buy something else.
Although I think new MBPs and the Mac Studio are completely different product categories which are unlikely to compete with each other in the eyes of most people, I do somewhat understand the sentiment of "feeling a bit hurt" by new product releases.
I did feel a twinge when the M1 MBP and MBA came out and were shown to be mostly as fast as the high end MBP16 with the exception of some GPU workloads and limited RAM. Had I not made my purchase decision until after WWDC 2020, I would almost certainly have waited 5 months (with my previous 2014 MBP15) to see how the M1 turned out, and could have saved myself a pile of cash.
...but then I would have ended up with an M1 MBP/Air and couldn't have justified buying a new MBP14/16 so soon, so "all's well that end's well".
I did feel a twinge when the M1 MBP and MBA came out and were shown to be mostly as fast as the high end MBP16 with the exception of some GPU workloads and limited RAM. Had I not made my purchase decision until after WWDC 2020, I would almost certainly have waited 5 months (with my previous 2014 MBP15) to see how the M1 turned out, and could have saved myself a pile of cash.
...but then I would have ended up with an M1 MBP/Air and couldn't have justified buying a new MBP14/16 so soon, so "all's well that end's well".
You do realize that the Apple Repair Extension Programs often take between 1 and 3 years to materialize, right? Your calculations are still premature at best.Kind of....but I think there is a middle ground.
I accept that obviously there will be iterative improvements to new products, possibly as early as 6 months later. This freaks some people out...but it is just the nature of tech.
However, I don't like to take a risk on untried new technology, however much it has been hyped up in pre-reviews.
I bought a new MBP14, but only after a pretty extensive period of research and waiting for any negative conclusions from long-term reviews (i.e. after about 3 months). I got somewhat burned (almost literally) buying the MBP16 in 2019 after seeing rave reviews about how it "fixed" all the problems with the older models. Only a couple of months later did people start complaining about the thermal performance, and then how the AMD 5600M GPU "fixed" all the problems with the 5500M and overheating when using the GPU.
YouTube review cycles tend to go from the (iJustine-like) excessive "OMG - this is a game changer!" videos...followed by..."10 problems with product x..."....and then "Why I made a mistake buying product x....".
If you get passed those phases, and back it up with some more serious in-depth reviews from places like AnandTech, plus actual user experience reports on forums such as this one, then you can get a reasonably clear picture of whether there are any serious issues with the new release.
I also think there is an optimal time to get on board with a product release cycle. To get maximum use out of a new product, you would ideally buy it at the beginning of its lifecycle, and upgrade after the release a new version, one or more generations later. Obviously buying an M1 a month before the predicted release of M2 would be sub-optimal unless (a) there was a good chance that M2 would have some hidden defect or (b) you got the M1 at a large discount. But you also don't want to take unnecessary risk by being an early adopter of brand-new tech.
In the case of M1 Pro/Max, my calculation was that it was based on M1, which had been very successful, so wasn't really a completely new-generation, and that it was likely to be an 18-24 month release cadence, so it made sense to buy immediately after the initial launch hype had cleared up, and after the machines had been battle-tested by thousands of real users.
So far, my calculations have been correct - it's a fantastic machine
Extremely happy with my MacBook Pro 16" M1 Max. Dont see upgrading any time soon to anything else. They could release a faster Mac tomorrow and I still wouldnt feel like Im missing out. Long live Apple Silicon.
Sorry, not quite sure what your point is regarding the repair program? Are you implying that there could be hidden issues that only materialise after more than a year?
It's possible of course, but if you had to wait 1-3 years before buying new gear, the whole industry would grind to a halt, so I think I'm taking a pretty low risk. Looking at the "bathtub curve" for typical failures, most serious issues with electronics occur early or late in its life cycle:
You and me both. I wish there was a MiniLED or OLED Monitor under a grand that could hold a candle to this display, but there aren't.
Has anybody run a test on draw at the wall outlet? I was under the impression that the 140W power supply of the 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max was 140W not because the computer draws that much, but rather because 140W enables fast charging of the battery.
Anandtech have tested this. Under some benchmark, the M1 Max chip is reported to draw above 90W. The entire laptop draws close to 120W in this scenario. This is the reason for the 96W brick I assume: Still being able to charge under full power.
Failures are with new designs/body styles, not individual release models. This seems to be a point that you are missing here. There will always be people that are eager to buy a brand new design of Apple product, despite these risks. And yes, most of them take at least a year to materialize. This is often known as "Rev A Sickness" which is why some folks prefer to wait for Rev B (the second release in a design generation) or Rev C (the third release in a design generation, and so forth).Sorry, not quite sure what your point is regarding the repair program? Are you implying that there could be hidden issues that only materialise after more than a year?
It's possible of course, but if you had to wait 1-3 years before buying new gear, the whole industry would grind to a halt, so I think I'm taking a pretty low risk. Looking at the "bathtub curve" for typical failures, most serious issues with electronics occur early or late in its life cycle:
Your assertion that the whole industry would grind to a halt given this makes absolutely no sense. Products receive new designs all the time, the point is that it's a higher gamble on the earlier end of such a design. Also, the "Bathtub" curve and your mentioning it here proves to me that you have no idea whatsoever about what I'm talking about. Go look up Apple Repair Extension programs over the years. We're not talking about "End of Life" wearing out things. We're talking about faulty components resulting from either poor design, poor quality control, or both.
As a 24” iMac owner I have zero remorse for my purchase. Sure I might drool a little bit over the thought of a Mac Studio with the 27” Studio monitor but for my use it’s just overkill. If anything perhaps the Studio display with a Mac mini but I’m holding out to see if there’s a new upgraded mini on the horizon.
There’s always going to be something new and faster coming out in PC hardware. It doesn’t matter if it’s Mac or Windows. Just because something new comes out that doesn’t mean what you have now is suddenly somehow worse. The question you have to ask is does what I’m using now work and if the answer is no and you just bought it then you made a bad decision with the purchase.
I think a Studio Display and a future M? Pro Mac mini variant will be a very compelling combination that should have the vast majority of previous 27” iMac users covered from a power and pricing standpoint.
at the moment, I think a Mac Studio and Studio Display is a bit overkill in terms of both performance and price for what a large portion of the 27” iMac audience needed/wanted - which I think was a large simple computer at an okay (for Apple) price.
I don't think there's going to be a "Pro" version of the Mac mini. If anything that's the Studio since the base model at 2k covers anything someone would do on a MacBook Pro. I think there's going to be an updated M2 Mac mini but who knows when. There's already three levels of screenless desktop computers from Apple so I don't see them adding a forth level.
Be happy with what you had and is your budget! I seem not to understand why so many of you kids complain constantly! Be happy and good thing will come your way! the Studio Mac was made for developers that crunch video/music/art! So unless you video make, music maker or artists the Studio is not for you! Many kids in Colleges need a laptop the take to class with them! I would love laptops when I went to college but my Business school switch from VAX central system to IBM business machines between my junior and Senior year! As a radio DJ I fell in love with the Mac taking place along cart machine for commercials to microphone tech getting better and better! So be happy with what you have in moment!
I think that is likely, but I can also see higher specced Mac mini. They already have the Pro line of chips so why constrain them to a laptop? I don't think the mini will ever get the M? Max because that is Studio territory, but remember they did have a higher tier Mac mini in the Intel era with that Space Gray variant. I'm not saying they'd market it as a Mac mini Pro, but I do think we'll eventually see both the 24" iMac and the Mac mini have configuration options with the Pro line.
That way all the chips are offered in both laptop and desktop forms since Apple seems to be going with a "choose your adventure" type of thing. Also, currently a base Mac Studio (with a lack of storage) and a base Studio Display is $3,598 which is much higher than the base 27" iMac. I think a $899-ish Mac mini would bring that cost down to $2,498 which is within the realm of iMacs of old.
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If they were going to put the M1 Pro and Max chips in the Mac mini why bother putting the M1 Max chip into the Studio. It doesn’t make sense to have a Mac mini and a Mac Studio available in the same configuration. I think if they were planning to do this they would’ve only released the M1 Ultra in the Mac Studio. Also if you just mean the M1 Pro and not the Max that wouldn’t make sense either because in every configuration they offer the Pro they also offer the Max so why wouldn’t they do this on a desktop that has better cooling.
I think the Mac mini is going to be treated like the 24” iMac where it’s for basic computing vs if you need “Pro” power then you would get the Studio. There’s really nothing stopping Apple from putting an M1 Max chip into the 24” iMac but they won’t because they want to differentiate the product lines. That’s why I think the mini will come out with a regular M2 chip which will be faster single core than the all of the M1 chips. Of course this is just my thoughts and Apple could do anything. Even the professional leakers get it wrong a lot of the time. Only time will tell.
I must have missed typed. What I meant was I can see a world where you have a Mac mini that comes with an M1 and M1 Pro and then a Mac Studio with an M1 Max and M1 Ultra.
That way you only have to get the studio if you have very high and graphical needs we need the absolute most CPU
You might be right but I don't think so. The main reason is Apple has included M1 Pro and M1 Max options on both 14" and 16" MacBooks. It would seem weird for them to handicap the Mac mini with only a M1 Pro option because if they could fit the M1 Pro it's obvious that they could also fit an M1 Max. Also what would be the price point? Right now the closest configuration of the Mac mini to the base Mac Studio is $1,199 vs $1,999 That's only $800 to upgrade from standard M1/ 16 GB of RAM to M1 Max/ 32 GB of RAM. If we went by the price difference between the base M1 Pro and M1 Max in the MacBook it's $500 less so this theoretical M1 Pro/ 16 GB of RAM would be $1,499? I feel like this is too close to the base model Studio. As I said before it's just my thoughts and it's an interesting discussion and something to think about.
Not a 4K display, but I have my MBP docked to 3 1440p ultrawide monitors and there are no noticeable issues.
A large portion of the 27" iMac Audience needed a performant higher-end desktop with a 27" screen. Incidentally, the M1 Max version of the Mac studio when paired with the Studio Displays is damn near identically priced to a 2020 27" iMac with similar specs. Except now there's the option of not buying an Apple display and getting whatever the hell display you want.
For those that the Mac Studio is overkill for, there's the M1 Mac mini. Obviously, there needs to be an M1 Pro configuration of the Mac mini or some version of the M1 Pro in desktop form. I'm not sure why that doesn't exist, but considering there were very few workflows for which even the base M1 wasn't incredibly performant for, my guess is that such a configuration really isn't THAT necessary.
Uhh...that logic doesn't follow and completely contradicts with Apple's past patterns of offering most CPU options from the smaller size of MacBook Pro as well as a lower-end CPU option from a larger size MacBook Pro. Apple giving the Mac mini some M1 Pro options wouldn't be enough to justify not including the M1 Pro in the Mac mini, especially since Apple is eager to remove Intel from as much of its product line and as quickly as possible.
Apple has done this with multiple prior generations of Mac mini past. They've only offered the lower-end CPU option present in contemporary 15" MacBook Pros on multiple occasions (2011 and 2012 come to mind) and not the higher-end. And the 2010-2020 Mac mini chassis definitely has more thermal room for CPUs than any laptop they've ever released to date (2021 MacBook Pros included).
If you're trying to suggest that a $1500 M1 Pro configuration of Mac mini wouldn't fly, I think you're wrong. Though, it'd certainly make much more sense at $1350 or $1400. But saving me $600 by eschewing portability and XDR ProMotion displays sounds like a sensible idea from the standpoint of the desktop lineup.
OK, I think I see the point you are making...but to date I am not aware of any serious failure of the "Rev A" M1 Pro / Max MacBooks, although it has only been a bit over 5 months since release.
My comment about the "industry grinding to a halt" has some logic behind it, at least to me. Imagine if no-one - absolutely nobody - bought a brand new product variant like the current MBPs for many months after its release, even if there was absolutely no evidence of any problem with it? Zero sales revenue. The manufacturer would probably panic, the IT press would declare it a failure, and many that didn't have other products would go out of business in the same way that failed crowd-funded projects end up.
This doesn't tend to happen often, particularly for companies that have generated some marketing hype, and Apple is very good at this, so they are likely to get at least some strong initial sales, even if the product proves to be defective.
I understand that some design failures, particular in vehicles, tend to show up after a fair amount of time, often flagged by accidents. Possible the "butterfly keyboard" on the MBP was an example of this, which is what you are alluding to.
Sure, there is a risk in being a Rev A early adopter, and I too would hesitate and pre-ordering like many Apple enthusiasts. But the MBPs are not completely new in all aspects. The SoC is an evolution of the M1, which has been proven, the screens probably are using a tested technology, same keyboards, trackpad, speakers etc.
Life it short - and this seems like a pretty low risk in scale of things. If it were a complete lemon, it's a few thousand dollars down the drain, not losing a limb....
Meanwhile I'm enjoying the benefits of the product while the "nervous Nellies" are fretting on the sidelines
5 months since release is too early. That's my point. The vast majority of Apple Repair Extension Programs take between 1-2 years to materialize.
It has no logic behind it because it's 100% unrealistic.
Exactly. There will always be people buying Rev A products because there are always going to be people (e.g. you) who don't care about the potential of Rev A sickness (at least nowhere near as much as they care about having the latest new thing).
The Butterfly keyboard isn't the prime example as that pretty much stayed around until all but the last design rev. The 2016/17 13" and 15" MacBook Pros had no fewer than four separate issues causing REPs to materialize (the butterfly keyboard only being one of them). Two of them would result in the faulty component being replaced with a fixed component, the other two, not so much. One of them was a failure with the SSD. If your Apple Silicon Mac's internal SSD fails, it becomes a paperweight (whereas you could at least external boot or Internet Recovery boot on an Intel Mac).
Components being loosely based on existing components and the components BEING existing components carried over from the previous Rev are two night and day different elements. M1 Pro and M1 Max ARE two entirely new SoCs. The fact that they're based on the M1 which, at this point, isn't new, doesn't count here. It's a brand new logic board design. Yes, Apple has other XDR displays using miniLED technology out there, these are the FIRST 14.2" and 16.2" iterations of those panels, making the panels themselves brand new. The fact that the technology is pre-existing helps to a small degree, but only a small degree. LED backlighting wasn't a new thing, yet the 2016 13" MacBook Pro shipped with a cable that was too short. THESE are the kinds of things you want to watch out for in a Rev A product. These are the things that are, ideally, ironed out by Rev B and definitely by Rev C.
Bro, I don't know how much you make in a week, but a few thousand dollars down the drain IS significant. I'm not saying it's losing a limb, but clearly, you can afford to buy a lemon. There are MANY who are buying these machines because it is the first new computer they've bought in a decade and it's the first computer they've bought in a decade because they CAN'T AFFORD to buy a new Mac more frequently than that.
Meanwhile I'm enjoying the benefits of the product while the "nervous Nellies" are fretting on the sidelines
Again, you've determined that the risks are worth having the latest and greatest today rather than waiting for it to become proven and stable. And clearly, you can afford to ditch it in favor of a Rev C model assuming an REP materializes for the Rev A model. My point is that this isn't the case for MANY Mac users and for those for whom a few thousand dollars is a significant amount, it's less risky to wait.
oh not at all. I don't think we're going to see an M1 Ultra in laptops anyways, as the power and heat may not be optimal for small enclosures. My MBP 14" has dramatically improved software performance over my 2017 mbp. Some of my render times could always be faster, but that's why I'll eventually buy a studio.