Before you buy a new Mac with just 8GB RAM, know this.

[6916494]

• Because swap means the CPU is running slower (maybe half speed); using more energy and battery; and if swapping, then the user isn't benefiting from as much cache memory as they would be with some headroom.

That is not correct. Swapping means less power consumption because data stored on an SDD needs only power when writing and reading to the SSD, RAM has constant power consumption.

The OS knows pretty well when and what to write to a swap file. That is exactly why almost everybody in almost any circumstances will not have any issues with 8 GB of RAM.

 

[6749974]

That is not correct. Swapping means less power consumption because data stored on an SDD needs only power when writing and reading to the SSD, RAM has constant power consumption.

The OS knows pretty well when and what to write to a swap file. That is exactly why almost everybody in almost any circumstances will not have any issues with 8 GB of RAM.

RAM is low-powered though and apparently SSDs use 3x as much voltage just for mere nanoseconds of writing.

But more so—the way that macOS preserves battery is by returning to idle as quickly as possible—where almost no power is being used—something the CPU can't do when its busy for twice as long due to swapping. So I reiterate—its not just about the power usage or RAM vs SSD, but about how inefficient the CPU is being due to swapping. The CPU is the real energy hog.

Why not just have sufficient RAM so that the CPU isn't performing double work?

SWAP is the equivalent of constraining the kitchen to such a small size that the catering staff has to use the basement as a storage extension of the kitchen. Whenever the kitchen counter gets full, they move partially cooked meals into the basement, and all the back and forth is a waste of time and energy. You've introduced lag in between kitchen tasks, and latency in finding items. It's wasteful. Doubling the kitchen size may double the lighting bill—but that's a better price to pay than all the energy keeping an entire kitchen open for twice as many hours.

 

[6916494]

RAM is low-powered though and apparently SSDs use 3x as much voltage just for mere nanoseconds of writing.

But more so—the way that macOS preserves battery is by returning to idle as quickly as possible—where almost no power is being used—something the CPU can't do when its busy for twice as long due to swapping. So I reiterate—its not just about the power usage or RAM vs SSD, but about how inefficient the CPU is being due to swapping. The CPU is the real energy hog.

This is so wrong.

 

[James Godfrey]

Somehow curiosity is a sin today?

Why not?

Yeah let’s believe Apple’s marketing even more and ignore what truly matters, and completely forget about this: even if your demand remains the same, the software supporting your demand will become heavier overtime, slowly chipping away whatever horsepower your machine has today. As a matter of fact, my Apple Watch Series 4 still runs watchos 10 fine, but I have to keep airplane mode on all the time to let it last a whole working day. Not to mention all of those animations being noticeably choppier Than in previous versions.

Apple Wants you to buy new shiny things instead of using the same thing for years or even decades. App developers want more features and better features to be included in their applications, which will inevitably make apps more bloated than before, whether you use such features or not. I don’t care how Apple touts their RAM management magic in their presentation. 8GB of RAM Is still 8GB of RAM, and it can only store so many electrons. Compression can only do so much as its effectiveness varies greatly from data type to data type.

I am not saying everyone must buy 16GB of RAM. If you know what you are doing, by all means. What I do judge is all similar claims saying 8GB of RAM is enough for most people in 2-3 years, which incentivises frequent upgrade when it could've been avoided, and let Apple further justify their insidious actions.

I see your point but look at it this way…

Person A makes 2 different purchase decisions over a 6 year period, this is a basic user with basic computer needs but may dabble in occasional photo/video editing and doesn’t need a lot of storage as they use cloud storage… 8GB RAM is plenty today for this use case.

-

Purchase Decision 1. Person A never goes on forums and literally just buys what they think they need which logically would be a base MacBook Air but they get the M2 version as Apple has sold them on it being the latest, so they slam down $1,099.00 and they are on their way. Three years down the line they are finding their MacBook Air doesn’t seem to be performing as well (unlikely but let’s say for the sake of argument it is) so they sell it for $400 (fair price considering it still getting updates and is likely still in fairly good condition) and pop into the store again for an upgrade and slam down another $1099.00 for the latest base spec MacBook Air again, which is much faster and performant for their needs. Three years later they are back in the same boat and need a better performing machine so they sell there old one for $400 and buy the latest base MacBook Air again for $1099.00 and are happy again…

In that 6 year period this person has spent $3,297.00 on base spec MacBook Air’s but have sold 2 of them for $800.00 in total, meaning overall they have actually spent $2,497.00 over a 6 year period for a laptop with spec’s which perfectly matches their needs.

-

Purchase Decision 2. This time person A is on forums such as this deciding what to buy, they see everyone saying that the base MacBook Air is bad as 8GB RAM won’t be sufficient and that 16GB is the bare minimum to future proof their device etc., so they go on Apple’s website buy a spec’d up version of the MacBook Air with 16GB RAM for $1299.00 which is really far more than what they need, however, after 6 years this time they feel like their Mac is now starting to feel slow, is probably in relatively poor condition and is not going to get the latest MacOS updates and want an upgrade but the machine has served them very well over the 6 years. So they sell their machine for $300 (as it is 6 years old at this point, probably has quite a bit of cosmetic wear and no longer getting supported by Apple), and purchase another MacBook Air (based off of their original purchase decision and slam down another $1299.00 and are happy again.

In that 6 year period this person has spent $2,598.00 on MacBooks and has sold one for $300 meaning that overall they spent $2,298.00 over a 6 year period.

-

From the above you can see that Person A only spent an additional $200 over a 6 year period by getting the base MBA’s vs upgrading to 16GB as recommended by many on here.

However, with person A’s use case would their general daily experience of their machines been much different? probably not. So yeah you could argue that person A would have saved $200 over that 6 year period had they have gone with 16GB RAM, however, by purchasing the base spec MBA’s, person A had the luxury of having the latest and greatest MacBook Air 3 times during that 6 year period, making use of all the new features of the latest model etc.

In scenario 2 on the other hand, person A was stuck with an aging machine for a far longer period, likely felt FOMO at times, and really didn’t have any better of an experience of the machine than that that of purchase decision 1.

So is future proofing a device really worth it in the grand scheme of things… I personally don’t think so, hence why I advise buy what you need and what suits your use case and don’t think of future proofing, because by doing so your not going to be saving a huge life changing sum of money, in the example above person A saved just $33 per year by future proofing their device with 16GB RAM… not exactly a huge saving in the grand scheme of things.

 

[6749974]

This is so wrong.

A 1000-photo Lightroom export with a 16 GB MacBook Pro takes 18 minutes. But the same task with an 8 GB Mac takes 2x as long because it's swapping so much. Are you to tell me that swapping for all 36 minutes is somehow more energy efficient on battery than just simply completing the task in 18 minutes?

I'm open to being corrected but "This is wrong" doesn't win arguments.

Everything I'm seeing shows DDR5 is more power efficient than SSD storage, not to mention 66x faster bandwidth with 3000x faster latency—not to mention low power state. So using DDR5 should be much more power efficient. And that two DDR5 modules are being used in the M2 SOC would mean using 16 GB should have no significant energy penalty over 8 GB. (DDR4 on M1 Air may be different in this point, but we're now on DDR5 and moving forward)

Also, it's common knowledge that bursting to idle is what apps and macOS is trying to accomplish because that is where the Mac is in a low power state. It's why you get 16 hours battery in a web test, but a process pegging the CPU is going to run battery down in an hour.

 

[canadianreader]

1. Not future proof
2. It will use more of your ssd lifespan for memory swapping
MacOS and apps (including future Apple AI) will be more ram demanding and since you can't upgrade you will have to sell it for half the price because fewer would want to buy an 8gb of ram in 2024 or 2025 and then buy one with 16 or 32. You saved $200 now so you can spend even more in the future.

 

[James Godfrey]

1. Not future proof
2. It will use more of your ssd lifespan for memory swapping
MacOS and apps (including future Apple AI) will be more ram demanding and since you can't upgrade you will have to sell it for half the price because fewer would want to buy an 8gb of ram in 2024 or 2025 and then buy one with 16 or 32. You saved $200 now so you can spend even more in the future.

As apple states 8GB RAM is…

‘Great for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.’

Which as long as 8GB RAM is used for the above purpose then that will be fine for anyone buying the 8GB RAM option with either M1, M2, M3 or even quite likely M4. In the second hand market that will hold true also.

We have to remember that Apple will be selling 8GB RAM with that use case description now until at least mid-late 2025, but likely longer if M4 also launches with 8GB RAM base… Apple are not going to sell an 8GB RAM Mac for over $1500.00 that won’t be able to cope with the above use case out of the box. It makes zero sense for Apple to do that, especially considering anything larger than 8GB RAM in the MBA line up and also the entry level MBP can primarily only be purchased through Apple themselves and not through your general tech retailer.

From looking online there is only a small handful of retailers in the UK who sell more than 8GB RAM MBA’s, by the logic on these forums, these will be returned in their droves for anyone purchasing them in 2025/2026, not exactly a great business model for Apple.

 

[canadianreader]

As apple states 8GB RAM is…

‘Great for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.’

Which as long as 8GB RAM is used for the above purpose then that will be fine for anyone buying the 8GB RAM option with either M1, M2, M3 or even quite likely M4. In the second hand market that will hold true also.

We have to remember that Apple will be selling 8GB RAM with that use case description now until at least mid-late 2025, but likely longer if M4 also launches with 8GB RAM base… Apple are not going to sell an 8GB RAM Mac for over $1500.00 that won’t be able to cope with the above use case out of the box. It makes zero sense for Apple to do that, especially considering anything larger than 8GB RAM in the MBA line up and also the entry level MBP can primarily only be purchased through Apple themselves and not through your general tech retailer.

From looking online there is only a small handful of retailers in the UK who sell more than 8GB RAM MBA’s, by the logic on these forums, these will be returned in their droves for anyone purchasing them in 2025/2026, not exactly a great business model for Apple.

I think it's a great business model getting people to upgrade more often just like the iPhone. Macs have become as disposable as the iPhone.
Someone with 8gb of ram mac will be less satisfied of the performance at a much faster rate than someone with more ram because people always install new apps either for testing, curiosity or they have new needs. The main issue is not the 8gb of ram in itself, the problem is you can't upgrade it, just like the iPhone. Also in future macOS updates some features maybe missing for low tier M3 because they can't run it, pushing consumers to ditch their current model for newer model again like the iPhone.
IMO it's a financially successful model until people get tired of it.

 

[James Godfrey]

I think it's a great business model getting people to upgrade more often just like the iPhone. Macs have become as disposable as the iPhone.
Someone with 8gb of ram mac will be less satisfied of the performance at a much faster rate than someone with more ram because people always install new apps either for testing, curiosity or they have new needs. The main issue is not the 8gb of ram in itself, the problem is you can't upgrade it, just like the iPhone. Also in future macOS updates some features maybe missing for low tier M3 because they can't run it, pushing consumers to ditch their current model for newer model again like the iPhone.
IMO it's a financially successful model until people get tired of it.

Yeah getting people to upgrade is great for Apple, however, selling machines which aren’t capable right of the box isn’t, as it’s just bad press for their machines and will end up with general consumers avoiding the Mac like the plague and the truth is Apple are going to be selling 8GB RAM Mac’s brand new for at least the next 3-4 years, the iMac (which comes with 8GB RAM base) probably won’t get refreshed until M5 launches now, which isn’t going to launch until mid 2026 or even early 2027, meaning Apple is going to have to optimise macOS and all of their stock application for 8GB RAM until that time.

Meaning anyone buying a MacBook Air, MacBook Pro or iMac right now with 8GB RAM are going to have a great experience for at least 3-4 years minimum so long as the machine is used for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.

 

[raythompsontn]

he's seeing the system use all 64GB RAM and it made him think he needs more

Using the memory for what? An intelligent OS would load as much stuff in RAM as possible, even some modules that are just used once and may not be used again. The RAM is there, use it. If another app needs memory then discard what is idling in memory and not being used.

When I was using SQL Server that DB engine would load as much of the database in memory as memory would allow. Especially the indices were loaded for speed of access. When available memory would get low the DB engine would resort to tables on disk and discard the tables in memory that had already been committed.

Thus I don't consider memory used a real metric. What needs to be looked is the number of times that memory could not be freed and parts of the memory swapped. Using 95% of memory and 0 bytes of swap is OK. Using 90% of memory and 30 GIG of swap is bad.

 

[raythompsontn]

For example, 32GB and above. Lower than that, activity monitor will always show yellow or red memory pressure no matter what

Not my experience. On my 16 Gig Air I have never shown memory pressure in yellow. With multiple apps open including Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom; MSWord and Excel, Mail, DaVinci Resolve and 5 or 6 Safari tabs.

 

[Shirasaki]

I see your point but look at it this way…

Person A makes 2 different purchase decisions over a 6 year period, this is a basic user with basic computer needs but may dabble in occasional photo/video editing and doesn’t need a lot of storage as they use cloud storage… 8GB RAM is plenty today for this use case.

-

Purchase Decision 1. Person A never goes on forums and literally just buys what they think they need which logically would be a base MacBook Air but they get the M2 version as Apple has sold them on it being the latest, so they slam down $1,099.00 and they are on their way. Three years down the line they are finding their MacBook Air doesn’t seem to be performing as well (unlikely but let’s say for the sake of argument it is) so they sell it for $400 (fair price considering it still getting updates and is likely still in fairly good condition) and pop into the store again for an upgrade and slam down another $1099.00 for the latest base spec MacBook Air again, which is much faster and performant for their needs. Three years later they are back in the same boat and need a better performing machine so they sell there old one for $400 and buy the latest base MacBook Air again for $1099.00 and are happy again…

In that 6 year period this person has spent $3,297.00 on base spec MacBook Air’s but have sold 2 of them for $800.00 in total, meaning overall they have actually spent $2,497.00 over a 6 year period for a laptop with spec’s which perfectly matches their needs.

-

Purchase Decision 2. This time person A is on forums such as this deciding what to buy, they see everyone saying that the base MacBook Air is bad as 8GB RAM won’t be sufficient and that 16GB is the bare minimum to future proof their device etc., so they go on Apple’s website buy a spec’d up version of the MacBook Air with 16GB RAM for $1299.00 which is really far more than what they need, however, after 6 years this time they feel like their Mac is now starting to feel slow, is probably in relatively poor condition and is not going to get the latest MacOS updates and want an upgrade but the machine has served them very well over the 6 years. So they sell their machine for $300 (as it is 6 years old at this point, probably has quite a bit of cosmetic wear and no longer getting supported by Apple), and purchase another MacBook Air (based off of their original purchase decision and slam down another $1299.00 and are happy again.

In that 6 year period this person has spent $2,598.00 on MacBooks and has sold one for $300 meaning that overall they spent $2,298.00 over a 6 year period.

-

From the above you can see that Person A only spent an additional $200 over a 6 year period by getting the base MBA’s vs upgrading to 16GB as recommended by many on here.

However, with person A’s use case would their general daily experience of their machines been much different? probably not. So yeah you could argue that person A would have saved $200 over that 6 year period had they have gone with 16GB RAM, however, by purchasing the base spec MBA’s, person A had the luxury of having the latest and greatest MacBook Air 3 times during that 6 year period, making use of all the new features of the latest model etc.

In scenario 2 on the other hand, person A was stuck with an aging machine for a far longer period, likely felt FOMO at times, and really didn’t have any better of an experience of the machine than that that of purchase decision 1.

So is future proofing a device really worth it in the grand scheme of things… I personally don’t think so, hence why I advise buy what you need and what suits your use case and don’t think of future proofing, because by doing so your not going to be saving a huge life changing sum of money, in the example above person A saved just $33 per year by future proofing their device with 16GB RAM… not exactly a huge saving in the grand scheme of things.

Thank you for your post.

 

[canadianreader]

Yeah getting people to upgrade is great for Apple, however, selling machines which aren’t capable right of the box isn’t, as it’s just bad press for their machines and will end up with general consumers avoiding the Mac like the plague and the truth is Apple are going to be selling 8GB RAM Mac’s brand new for at least the next 3-4 years, the iMac (which comes with 8GB RAM base) probably won’t get refreshed until M5 launches now, which isn’t going to launch until mid 2026 or even early 2027, meaning Apple is going to have to optimise macOS and all of their stock application for 8GB RAM until that time.

Meaning anyone buying a MacBook Air, MacBook Pro or iMac right now with 8GB RAM are going to have a great experience for at least 3-4 years minimum so long as the machine is used for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.

If you remember when Apple was selling iPhones with 8gb and 16gb storage for base models, people were outraged back then and they kept selling them despite being insufficient for everyday use they knew it and they didn't care. So yes Apple can get away with stuff like that.

 

[raythompsontn]

being insufficient for everyday use they knew it

I had one of those phones, 8 gig, and it was fine for every day tasks. In two years I never had a problem of not enough memory.

 

[geta]

As apple states 8GB RAM is…

‘Great for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.’

Which as long as 8GB RAM is used for the above purpose then that will be fine for anyone buying the 8GB RAM option with either M1, M2, M3 or even quite likely M4. In the second hand market that will hold true also.

We have to remember that Apple will be selling 8GB RAM with that use case description now until at least mid-late 2025, but likely longer if M4 also launches with 8GB RAM base… Apple are not going to sell an 8GB RAM Mac for over $1500.00 that won’t be able to cope with the above use case out of the box. It makes zero sense for Apple to do that, especially considering anything larger than 8GB RAM in the MBA line up and also the entry level MBP can primarily only be purchased through Apple themselves and not through your general tech retailer.

From looking online there is only a small handful of retailers in the UK who sell more than 8GB RAM MBA’s, by the logic on these forums, these will be returned in their droves for anyone purchasing them in 2025/2026, not exactly a great business model for Apple.

Even iPad will cover these basic daily tasks, let alone the base MBA/MBP with 8GB RAM will be fine for the next 3ish years.

But in real life, most of the people are not tech nerds and will keep their Macs much longer, usually 7-10 years or till they die, and during this time, possible their needs will change so extra RAM (and storage) will be good investment.

 

[theluggage]

As apple states 8GB RAM is…

‘Great for browsing online, streaming movies, messaging with friends and family, editing photos and personal video, casual gaming, and running everyday productivity apps.’

...and even the cheapest M1 MacBook Air is more than adequate for that sort of usage. Heck, that's been true for years now.

If this was just about the cheapest Mac model(s) then Apple would be closer to having a point - except, not really, since 16GB (often of the self-same LPDDR5 RAM) is rapidly becoming the norm in most thin'n'light PCs in the ~$1000 or higher range.

The real problem, though, is that 8GB is still the default after you pay a premium for an M2 Air or a 14" MacBook Pro... and even if you shell out for the 'better' version of the M2 Air, M3 MBP or M3 iMac you still only get 8GB.

8GB has been Apple's default for pretty much the last decade, in which time every other spec has improved dramatically while prices have dropped "in real terms" (which is the norm in the consumer electronics biz) and the "demands" of even basic use have increased (e.g. 4k video and higher res stills are becoming commonplace, websites have become more app-and-video laden...). With every new release, like the M3, it's becoming harder and harder to defend the same old 8GB RAM base spec and $200-per-8G upgrade charges.

 

[ZebedeeG]

As an owner of both 8GB & 16GB machines, I do agree that 8GB is quite adequate for doing a lot of stuff and probably for over 90% of users.

🤔 but...

With the release of the M3 chip I do think that Apple have missed a trick by giving customers a merely "adequate" amount of memory in base spec, when they could have given their customers a "decent" amount of memory instead!

Surely it wouldn't have cost Apple much to put 12GB in base machines, with 24GB being the $200/£200 upgrade?

Wouldn't this make their entry level machines look better value / get better reviews and perhaps help sales... 🤷‍♀️

But who am I to say? I'm sure they employ some pretty good bean counters!!!

 

[James Godfrey]

If you remember when Apple was selling iPhones with 8gb and 16gb storage for base models, people were outraged back then and they kept selling them despite being insufficient for everyday use they knew it and they didn't care. So yes Apple can get away with stuff like that.

There is quite a difference between phones/MacBooks and storage/RAM.

However, all of my iPhone journey I have always had the base storage, never opted for more (since the 3GS) and I have never found it to be a bottle neck as I have always been a general user.

Even iPad will cover these basic daily tasks, let alone the base MBA/MBP with 8GB RAM will be fine for the next 3ish years.

But in real life, most of the people are not tech nerds and will keep their Macs much longer, usually 7-10 years or till they die, and during this time, possible their needs will change so extra RAM (and storage) will be good investment.

Yeah generally those folk who are intending to keep their Mac for a prolonged period I would say get 16GB especially if your intending to keep it for 7-10 years, however, 8GB will serve the majority of users in the target demographic well for at least 5 years.

...and even the cheapest M1 MacBook Air is more than adequate for that sort of usage. Heck, that's been true for years now.

If this was just about the cheapest Mac model(s) then Apple would be closer to having a point - except, not really, since 16GB (often of the self-same LPDDR5 RAM) is rapidly becoming the norm in most thin'n'light PCs in the ~$1000 or higher range.

The real problem, though, is that 8GB is still the default after you pay a premium for an M2 Air or a 14" MacBook Pro... and even if you shell out for the 'better' version of the M2 Air, M3 MBP or M3 iMac you still only get 8GB.

8GB has been Apple's default for pretty much the last decade, in which time every other spec has improved dramatically while prices have dropped "in real terms" (which is the norm in the consumer electronics biz) and the "demands" of even basic use have increased (e.g. 4k video and higher res stills are becoming commonplace, websites have become more app-and-video laden...). With every new release, like the M3, it's becoming harder and harder to defend the same old 8GB RAM base spec and $200-per-8G upgrade charges.

I do agree in part but… PC’s generally do need more RAM, as the system just isn’t as optimised as what Apple’s Mac line up is, so in general they need higher spec’s to run more effectively.

As for price, Apple has always been more expensive for less spec, look at their iPhones for a great example of this, so the PC world’s sub $1000 laptop is the equivalent to apples $1000-$2000 laptop, it’s the premium we have to pay for their devices/ecosystem, that is something that will never change and something that everyone using Apple products needs to just get used to.

Don’t get me wrong users needs have increased over time with 4K video etc… and that is why the jump to Apple silicon from Intel was needed, MacBook Air’s were really struggling during the Intel days, and Apple silicon changed that dramatically even with the base 8GB RAM remaining unchanged, the M1 Air base is still considered one of the best value laptops even now for most users and is still highly recommended.

As for websites I feel like the opposite is true, if anything websites I would say have become less hungry and less bloated than years ago as the vast majority of online traffic is via smart phones and tablets which are even less capable, forcing developers to optimise their websites accordingly, if they built websites to require 16GB of RAM on a Mac to run smoothly that is going to have a massive negative impact on their traffic.

Computer tech now has matured that much to a point that future proofing really isn’t as much of an issue these days. Many people said that 8GB RAM was not enough back when M1 launched in the MacBook Air in 2020, now 3 years later they are still performing really well with very few user complaints and people are still buying them brand new and are still completely happy with them, it still holds a whopping 4.8/5 on Amazon reviews, and all recent purchasers of the machine are still very much happy with it… this is a 3 year old device we are talking about, a device which 3 years ago people said isn’t great because it only has 8GB RAM and should be upgraded to 16GB to future proof it.

Could Apple have given 12GB RAM with the M3, sure they could have but they know too well, that there will always be those niggling thoughts in people’s mind on whether 8GB will be enough and always a potential of a spec upgrade which is just pure profit to Apple, something which they are not going to give up easily. The day Apple bring 12GB RAM to their entry level Mac, is the day you will see a huge slump of people upgrading their RAM or opting for the base MBP M-Pro chip, therefore I can see when that day comes the base Airs, iMac and base Pro see a price hikes.

 

[Baseiseough]

This debate about 8GB of RAM is seriously exaggerated. I see many people and “influencers” talking about thousands of raw photo files, 4k videos and Adobe apps. Most people don’t touch any of that stuff. Of all the people I know (friends and work colleagues), I’m the only one who is subscribed to Creative Cloud. I’m sure the vast majority of computer users just browse the web, stream movies and use productivity apps like MS Office and iWork. For this kind of usage, base Mac models are a fantastic value. You get performance and unbeatable battery life in a compact, light and well designed laptop.

I’m a professional photographer and also a teacher. For the pro photo side of my life, I use a Mac Studio on which I throw all the raw files and Adobe apps I need. I also use Blender. For my teaching life, I use a midnight M2 MacBook Air. That little son of a b.. is just PHENOMENAL. All my teaching colleagues use Dell laptops. After three hours, they have to use their power supply even though all they do is using Word, Outlook and Teams. I use iWork and MS online apps because there is no way I’m installing MS apps on any of my Macs. In that field of work, the base M2 MacBook Air is a beast! Heck, it’s a teacher workstation. Would I render highly detailed 3D scenes on it and edit 2GB photo files on it? Heck no. Although that little A.. kicker would probably surprise me and do it.

A base Apple silicon Mac is enough for 95% of computer users. For those who think adding RAM is future proofing, well. I don’t think they know Apple well enough. Apple is wiser than that. They don’t use RAM to make techies upgrade. They always find another sneaky way to do it.

I’m starting to think people wanting Apple to make 16GB RAM standard are those who just want to get 8GB free because they don’t have money to buy more and/or believe they are so “pro” they absolutely need it. Geez, people were doing desktop publishing, word processing and video editing on sub 1GHZ single core machines with 256MB of RAM not so long ago. And now, all of a sudden, a 3.5GHZ 8 core CPU with 8GB of RAM is lame and can’t even surf the web or open an excel file.

Apple is a greedy company, it’s true and I don’t agree with all of their decisions. But, when you look at a base model Mac and its price, you have to take in consideration of all the software that is included with it. Operating system: included . iWork: Included. Garage Band and iMovie: Included. Mail and iMessage: Included. Not only are they included but all future upgrades are also included. So, yes, you can get a 16GB PC machine that will heat your bedroom and go to sleep after spending 3 to 5 hours on battery life for less than the price of a base Mac, but you won’t get the all the software, performance, battery life and responsiveness of the base Mac.

I too thought 8GB of RAM was a scam, but after using a base M2 MacBook Air and compared it to my M1 Max Mac Studio with 32GB of RAM, I can say these machines are impressive and represent good value for 95% of PC users. In many tasks, my M2 air is even faster than my Mac Studio.

So, are base Macs good machines? Yes they are. Are they future proof? Not much less than full specced expensive Macs that won’t have the latest bells and whistles future Macs models will have (even base ones) like improved Ai cores, wireless lossless audio, faster and better wifi, non-burning OLED screens and whatever else features Apple will decide to market to make you want to trash your current Mac and buy the new one with upgraded RAM so you can be even more future proof.

 

[Asiatic Black Hebrew]

The whole "future proofing" argument would hold more weight if the majority of Apple users here actually keep their products longer than a year or two & weren't constantly looking for any minor reason to upgrade their devices.

When the M2 Air released, I remember reading multiple threads from M1 users, who were downright angry that the new model didn't completely blow the M1 out of the water in terms of speed. They were upset that it wasn't going to be worth the upgrade, in their eyes. These are the same people who spent $2000+ "future proofing" their laptops, only to be disappointed they couldn't do it all over again the following year.

The majority of the posters giving sermons about how anything other than 32GB is obsolete, tend to be hardcore enthusiast tech nerds, who will often go to great lengths to justify a new purchase, regardless of how well they "future proofed" their machines a year & a half earlier.

 

[6749974]

Ladies and Gentleman—we can argue for years about 8 GB RAM—and I guess technically we have been arguing for years. The fact of the matter is we're both right:

1. 8 GB RAM is enough for low-needs, casual users—who will buy it on sale $200 off anyway

2. Apple is keeping the default RAM spec at 8 GB to increase the amount of customers paying an additional $200 to make the Mac work as it should

So at the end of the day, people in #1 are happy because they bought it on sale for $200 off, and people in #2 are annoyed because they see the grift—and paid at least $400 more (from the people who got it $200 off) just for an additional 8 GB RAM. Plus, people in #2 are going to be annoyed with #1 because people in #1 keep making excuses for Apple and explaining why the grift is "no big deal." We'll never agree because this is the internet where everybody refuses to exercise empathy and everybody refuses to see the other side's perspective.

So I'll leave you with a perspective of someone you've all never considered—the pricing manager.

Yes, despite never showing their faces at Apple events, Apple is filled with MBA types who run the business. See the pricing manager has one job, and that's to figure out ways to maximize profit margins, and its a real balancing act between pricing high enough to make excessive profits, but not pricing so high that sales ('amount of customers' purchasing) is low. To give you an example of his job, let's look at the Studio Display—

The pricing manager suggests Apple price the Studio Display at $1600—because that will get people to commit to purchase—but he suggests they first remove height adjustment from the design—that way Apple can sell height-adjustment back to customers for an additional $400.

See 2/3rds will pay $1600, and 1/3rd will pay $2000. Which makes the average price $1,733.33 per customer.

And that's how Apple is able to maintain higher profits than any other company by employing the following strategy:

Step 1: Handicap the product—which sells to 2/3rds of customers

Step 2: Then sell upgrades that actually make the product function as intended to the other 1/3rd of customers at an additional (absurd) markup

So now that you have the perspective of the pricing manager—you can see why these Macs start with 8 GB RAM.

And if that wasn't clear enough—know that Apple sells their $999 Air, $1299 iMac, and now $1599 MacBook Pro—with basically the same insides as an $599 iPad Air which has an M-chip and 8 GB RAM. See 8 GB RAM isn't expensive, it's a few dollars to Apple, so they make huge margins either way.

So remember—if you're satisfied buying a $1600 display with no height adjustment—you're right. And if you think paying $400 for height-adjustment is a grift—you too are right. You're both right.

Is 8GB a handicap designed to grift the other 1/3rd of customers out of an additional $200? Yes. But how else is Apple supposed to increase the average price per customer, and thus gross margins? Think of the pricing manager!

 

[azentropy]

8GB is still fine for some, but that number is getting smaller and smaller. Anyone who finds the base M1 MBA laggy is probably going to find the M2 (and future M3) MBA with 8GB laggy as well as the bottleneck is more likely to be RAM constraints than processor constraints. I tested this myself as a while back I did for me a real world test between my 8GB M1 MBA and my 16GB 14” M1 Pro MBP . Even in low power mode the MBP was less laggy in cases where the MBA lagged. I also previously did some test when I first got my M1 MBA and I had just early that year purchased an Intel 32GB 13” MBP. In almost all cases the M1 MBA was faster, but once a certain memory threshold was hit the 32GB Intel was faster. But those cases were rare for me and I ended up selling the 13” MBP and keeping the base M1 MBA (which I really wasn’t planning on doing).

My bigger issue that I and others have mentioned for ever is the lack of a standard/stock 16GB configuration in some models (like the MBA, iMac and non-Pro mini) so that retailers can carry (and discount) them. It should NOT have to be BTO anymore. This “might” be changing as I’ve seen Bestbuy carry a 16GB/1TB 15” recently, although that has been pretty limited. I’d prefer they just update the step up to 16GB/512GB since for my uses I don’t need that much space all the time and really don’t want to pay Apple’s exorbitant storage upgrade cost, but they should at least have an option.

 

[geta]

8GB is still fine for some, but that number is getting smaller and smaller. Anyone who finds the base M1 MBA laggy is probably going to find the M2 (and future M3) MBA with 8GB laggy as well as the bottleneck is more likely to be RAM constraints than processor constraints. I tested this myself as a while back I did for me a real world test between my 8GB M1 MBA and my 16GB 14” M1 Pro MBP . Even in low power mode the MBP was less laggy in cases where the MBA lagged. I also previously did some test when I first got my M1 MBA and I had just early that year purchased an Intel 32GB 13” MBP. In almost all cases the M1 MBA was faster, but once a certain memory threshold was hit the 32GB Intel was faster. But those cases were rare for me and I ended up selling the 13” MBP and keeping the base M1 MBA (which I really wasn’t planning on doing).

My bigger issue that I and others have mentioned for ever is the lack of a standard/stock 16GB configuration in some models (like the MBA, iMac and non-Pro mini) so that retailers can carry (and discount) them. It should NOT have to be BTO anymore. This “might” be changing as I’ve seen Bestbuy carry a 16GB/1TB 15” recently, although that has been pretty limited. I’d prefer they just update the step up to 16GB/512GB since for my uses I don’t need that much space all the time and really don’t want to pay Apple’s exorbitant storage upgrade cost, but they should at least have an option.

Since always Apple offered the bare minimum configurations that will be somehow sufficient for the next 2-3 years for the average user, while charging ridiculous prices for BTO options.

In the end the user need to decide if he’s ok with buying base model and upgrade every 2-3 years, or investing extra money and keep it longer…