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Hi, this is my first post on MacRumors! First off, there is some really great information in this thread. I'll do my best and try not to say the same thing as others that have previously posted here...

From my experience with two Dell U2410's over the past number of years, I recommend you get yourself a newer generation U2413. Don't bother worrying about anything other than the sRGB color profile when starting out either.

Since cameras tend to use this color space as well as many of the print shops, displaying any other color space on your monitor may cause inaccuracy with what you're seeing in your workflow.

There are other profiles to work in that can display a greater color gamut, however using those is only recommended if you know what you are doing.

If you do work in another profile, you will need to look out for color shift and also need to know what the ink and paper combination will do if there is clipping of a color that cannot be reproduced. It may look acceptable and pleasing on paper, or absolutely incorrect and look horrible.

I've been extremely satisfied with my dual U2410 setup and calibration using Lacie Blue Eye Pro every few months. dE average is 0.5 and dE94 average is 0.3 (anything under 1.0 means great accuracy) with 0% deviation in gamma and color temperature. I'd upload a pdf of one of my calibration reports to show you, but I'm not sure how to do that.

Soft proofing is dead-on accurate when applying the photo labs profile to check for their differences in setup.

Bottom line, pick the best monitor you can afford so that you won't have to upgrade once you see the lower end model shortcomings. I know that's been said before, but it's worth mentioning again because it is so true.

Get the calibration device after the fact once you're comfortable with the purchase. Color accuracy out of the box is okay at best, but the Dell really shines once it has been calibrated.

The other thing... since you are writing 85% of the time, I would also think you want accurate white backgrounds with your text so that your eyes don't fatigue. A calibrated higher end Dell will give you that for sure.

Good luck and hope this helps.
 
I've read some great reviews on MonoPrice's 27" IPS slim screen. Some people mentioned that it has the same LCD as Apple's Cinema Display. Anyone have any experience with it?
 
Since cameras tend to use this color space as well as many of the print shops, displaying any other color space on your monitor may cause inaccuracy with what you're seeing in your workflow.

Bottom line, pick the best monitor you can afford so that you won't have to upgrade once you see the lower end model shortcomings. I know that's been said before, but it's worth mentioning again because it is so true.

The other thing... since you are writing 85% of the time, I would also think you want accurate white backgrounds with your text so that your eyes don't fatigue. A calibrated higher end Dell will give you that for sure.

Great advice by thomasmthurston imo. To add to his first point - I've worked with Fuji Frontier printers for many years, and typically (ie in high street shops) they have been set to a sRGB profile for printing so sending a file with a wider profile (Adobe RGB) is pointless because the out of gamut colours have to be reinterpreted by the Frontier. High end pro print shops will have a wide gamut profile you can download so you can set your workflow to match their printer, but by the sounds of your level of experience you won't need to worry about that just yet - no insult meant.


This article by Eizo explains well why calibration is useful and the differences between software and hardware calibration.


If you can afford the better of the two Dell monitors and the compatible calibration device, then that sounds like a very good way to spend your money. The screen will serve you well for many years, the calibration device will work with the hardware calibration in the screen and will be able to software calibrate other monitors which don't have hardware calibration built in.

Other calibration devices will work with the better of the two Dell monitors, but you will only be able to software calibrate them and not use the monitors in-built hardware calibration features.
 
Um, I turned it down.

I think I currently have the brightness set between 10 and 20. Any lower and I couldn't hit the calibration targets.
 
If you intend to make a lot of prints then save up and get an Eizo or NEC. If only for web use (not professional) its not so important to have such an accurate monitor. You will need an accurate monitor (they are designed to have low brightness and contrast to enable it match a printed image) or you will end up with a lot of hassle spending lots of money on ink and paper trying to make your prints match what you are seeing on the monitor. A good monitor is the first link in the chain with many to follow to get a WYSIWYG set up.
Get the "Screen to Print" tutorial video from "The Luminous Landscape" the old chaps maybe not to your taste but the knowledge they impart is invaluable, could save you years of frustration.
You are embarking on quite a journey but one that leads to immense satisfaction once you have mastered the essential steps.
Enjoy and good luck.
 
Thanks guys. There's a lot of great information here :). I've been pondering my needs and in reality the u2412m would probably be more than adequate for me and then I could move to a 2 monitor set up later... BUT the main thing that concerns me is the PWM issue with IPS Screens. The u2413 only uses PWM below 20% brightness so it would be better in that regard than the u2412m... Should that be a major factor in my decision making? The main thing that annoys me about the 2413 (other than it's dearer) is that you can't hardware calibrate if you are using a Mac as Dell's software is currently not compatible with OSX.
 
Wow, you are really over thinking this. ;)

Have you had issues in the past with flicker caused by PWM? Unless you are unusually hypersensitive you won't have any problems with a modern display from a quality vendor. LEDs aren't going away any time soon and PWM is how they are controlled.

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Oh and as far as hardware calibration - are you going to be using this monitor with many different computers? If so, then hardware calibration will save you from have to calibrate each system. If not then it really isn't buying you anything.
 
Wow, you are really over thinking this. ;)

Have you had issues in the past with flicker caused by PWM? Unless you are unusually hypersensitive you won't have any problems with a modern display from a quality vendor. LEDs aren't going away any time soon and PWM is how they are controlled.

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Oh and as far as hardware calibration - are you going to be using this monitor with many different computers? If so, then hardware calibration will save you from have to calibrate each system. If not then it really isn't buying you anything.

Re flicker - not as such but I'm very prone to eye strain :). Re over thinking - always ;).
 
....The main thing that annoys me about the 2413 (other than it's dearer) is that you can't hardware calibrate if you are using a Mac as Dell's software is currently not compatible with OSX.

Writergirl7, I am not sure that I am following you here. If you purchase a third party vendor's USB calibration device, whether that is ColorMunki, Spyder, Lacie, etc, they all should come with their own software that is pretty much always supported in the latest OSX operating system iterations.

I say "pretty much always" because my experience with LaCie is their software updates tend to be released anywhere between one month to three months after a major OSX revision.

You should not need Dell software to calibrate any monitor with your Mac.

Unless of course, I misunderstood your concern. Keep us posted.
 
Writergirl7, I am not sure that I am following you here. If you purchase a third party vendor's USB calibration device, whether that is ColorMunki, Spyder, Lacie, etc, they all should come with their own software that is pretty much always supported in the latest OSX operating system iterations.

I say "pretty much always" because my experience with LaCie is their software updates tend to be released anywhere between one month to three months after a major OSX revision.

You should not need Dell software to calibrate any monitor with your Mac.

Unless of course, I misunderstood your concern. Keep us posted.

This review states that as far as hardware calibration goes only only one calibration device works with the u2413. They also say that to calibrate the hardware of the 2413 you need Dell software that doesn't work with Mac OSX at this stage. Software calibration seems to be different - the requirement is any modern colorimeter. I may have got it wrong as I am new to all of this but that seems to be what they are saying :). It sounds from the above conversations that it doesn't really matter anyway.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm see heading 'Hardware Calibration'
 
Thank you for this. You are absolutely correct that the monitor's hardware LUT is locked down to one branded device for now. Software LUT is open.
 
I've bee researching external monitors to go with my13" rMBP. I've narrowed it down, I think, to the Dell u2413, the Asus pa248q, and the Eizo Forris FS 2333. There are others but these keep on popping up. The Dell is on special at the moment for ~$540 AUD. The main issue is whether or not to get a wide gamut display like the u2413 or a standard gamut one (another option is the older u2412). At this stage I will be using it for about 85% writing, research/ normal office use and about 15% photography (I'm really just a beginner). I want to grow in the photography area and so would like a monitor with good colour accuracy but i don't want anything that will annoy me for general use. I'm thinking that good sRGB coverage would be fine for me but the u2413 is very tempting on special. Can anyone help me? Clear, easy to read text is very important to me but I also want to do a couple of digital photography workshops in the next few months. However it wouldn't be helpful to have great photo editing capability if general use is frustrating. I probably can't afford a colour calibrator as well as the monitor - that purchase would be a month or two down the track. So something that is likeable out of the box would be good. Thanks :)
BTW I really don't have any any editing software yet (had an ancient version of photoshop on my old PC) so advice on where to start there would be good too (although at this stage the monitor is the priority).


You will be very pleased with the Dell u2412HM @ 1920x1200

If you would like higher resolution go with a Dell u2713HM @ 2560 x 1440

A Spyder 3 express or other calibrator is a must if you are serious about colour accuracy. Factor that into your budget.

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This review states that as far as hardware calibration goes only only one calibration device works with the u2413. They also say that to calibrate the hardware of the 2413 you need Dell software that doesn't work with Mac OSX at this stage. Software calibration seems to be different - the requirement is any modern colorimeter. I may have got it wrong as I am new to all of this but that seems to be what they are saying :). It sounds from the above conversations that it doesn't really matter anyway.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm see heading 'Hardware Calibration'

I can tell you for fact that the Spyder does not required dell software to calibrate the display. It uses its own software.
 
I've bee researching external monitors to go with my13" rMBP. I've narrowed it down, I think, to the Dell u2413, the Asus pa248q, and the Eizo Forris FS 2333. There are others but these keep on popping up. The Dell is on special at the moment for ~$540 AUD. The main issue is whether or not to get a wide gamut display like the u2413 or a standard gamut one (another option is the older u2412). At this stage I will be using it for about 85% writing, research/ normal office use and about 15% photography (I'm really just a beginner). I want to grow in the photography area and so would like a monitor with good colour accuracy but i don't want anything that will annoy me for general use. I'm thinking that good sRGB coverage would be fine for me but the u2413 is very tempting on special. Can anyone help me? Clear, easy to read text is very important to me but I also want to do a couple of digital photography workshops in the next few months. However it wouldn't be helpful to have great photo editing capability if general use is frustrating. I probably can't afford a colour calibrator as well as the monitor - that purchase would be a month or two down the track. So something that is likeable out of the box would be good. Thanks :)
BTW I really don't have any any editing software yet (had an ancient version of photoshop on my old PC) so advice on where to start there would be good too (although at this stage the monitor is the priority).[/

FYI..

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dell-UltraSharp-U2412M-24-Widescreen-LED-LCD-Monitor-/171100880240?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item27d6683d70&_uhb=1
 
The concern is that using the 14-bit hardware LUT on the U2413 is restricted to using a specific colorimeter with proprietary Dell software that is not currently supported on OSX.
 
You will be very pleased with the Dell u2412HM @ 1920x1200

If you would like higher resolution go with a Dell u2713HM @ 2560 x 1440

A Spyder 3 express or other calibrator is a must if you are serious about colour accuracy. Factor that into your budget.

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I can tell you for fact that the Spyder does not required dell software to calibrate the display. It uses its own software.

This is correct. A modern calibrator only has to be compatible with your computers OS. The monitor is always compatible. Some will need you to manually adjust the colours brightness to match a value, but most are set for automatic calibration.
Don't get a Spyder 3. The Spyder 4 has been out well over a year now. Personally I prefer the ColorMunki as it is more accurate IMO.
 
This is correct. A modern calibrator only has to be compatible with your computers OS. The monitor is always compatible. Some will need you to manually adjust the colours brightness to match a value, but most are set for automatic calibration.
Don't get a Spyder 3. The Spyder 4 has been out well over a year now. Personally I prefer the ColorMunki as it is more accurate IMO.
Actually no, that is not correct. The OP was referring to hardware calibration built into the monitor. This is different than software calibration that is run on the computer. It is very common with monitors that support hardware calibration to require a special tweaked version of the colorimeter.

I do agree that the Spyder 3 should be avoided. The Spyder 4 is a huge upgrade over the 3. The X-Rite line of products have seen similar improvements. When purchasing a calibration system make sure you get the current generation. A lot has changed over the years.
 
I've bee researching external monitors to go with my13" rMBP. I've narrowed it down, I think, to the Dell u2413, the Asus pa248q, and the Eizo Forris FS 2333. There are others but these keep on popping up. The Dell is on special at the moment for ~$540 AUD. The main issue is whether or not to get a wide gamut display like the u2413 or a standard gamut one (another option is the older u2412). At this stage I will be using it for about 85% writing, research/ normal office use and about 15% photography (I'm really just a beginner). I want to grow in the photography area and so would like a monitor with good colour accuracy but i don't want anything that will annoy me for general use. I'm thinking that good sRGB coverage would be fine for me but the u2413 is very tempting on special. Can anyone help me? Clear, easy to read text is very important to me but I also want to do a couple of digital photography workshops in the next few months. However it wouldn't be helpful to have great photo editing capability if general use is frustrating. I probably can't afford a colour calibrator as well as the monitor - that purchase would be a month or two down the track. So something that is likeable out of the box would be good. Thanks :)
BTW I really don't have any any editing software yet (had an ancient version of photoshop on my old PC) so advice on where to start there would be good too (although at this stage the monitor is the priority).[/

FYI..

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dell-UltraSh...=Computer_Monitors&hash=item27d6683d70&_uhb=1

Thanks - but wrong country :)

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Actually no, that is not correct. The OP was referring to hardware calibration built into the monitor. This is different than software calibration that is run on the computer. It is very common with monitors that support hardware calibration to require a special tweaked version of the colorimeter.

So how important is this? Am leaning back to the u2413 for a couple of reasons. Is software calibration good enough? I see on Dell's page that 'Dell recommends windows' so does that mean its likely there are going to be ongoing issues as Dell and Apple don't like each other?
 
So how important is this? Am leaning back to the u2413 for a couple of reasons. Is software calibration good enough? I see on Dell's page that 'Dell recommends windows' so does that mean its likely there are going to be ongoing issues as Dell and Apple don't like each other?

As I've said before I don't think it is very important at all. I think the wider color gamut is more important than hardware calibration. Unless you have a dozen or so computers that you will be plugging into the monitor. Then HW calibration would be easier than maintaining all those machines individually.
 
So how important is this? Am leaning back to the u2413 for a couple of reasons. Is software calibration good enough? I see on Dell's page that 'Dell recommends windows' so does that mean its likely there are going to be ongoing issues as Dell and Apple don't like each other?

No it just means Dell would prefer you to buy one of their crappy towers.
 
Okay. From all of this and other stuff I've read
1. a good sRGB monitor would be fine
2. But I don't like the sound of the heavier antiglare coating on the 2412m
3. The u2413 has a better screen, better connectivity, and much finer antiglare coating. But it is wide gamut.
4. But a wider gamut monitor can be run in emulation sRGB until I need something more.
5. This causes no display problem but it does cost more.
Correct?
 
Okay. From all of this and other stuff I've read
1. a good sRGB monitor would be fine
2. But I don't like the sound of the heavier antiglare coating on the 2412m
3. The u2413 has a better screen, better connectivity, and much finer antiglare coating. But it is wide gamut.
4. But a wider gamut monitor can be run in emulation sRGB until I need something more.
5. This causes no display problem but it does cost more.
Correct?

1.sRGB is fine for most people
2.Not seen one, but your best bet is to have a look at one and decide if it bothers you. Just remember the store lighting will be different to your set up.
3.Again anywhere you can go and view one?
4.Usually you can select your colour space. Check with Dell.
5.No problems at all. If you shoot in sRGB, but your monitor display a wider colour gamut, there is no issue in my experience.
 
1.sRGB is fine for most people
2.Not seen one, but your best bet is to have a look at one and decide if it bothers you. Just remember the store lighting will be different to your set up.
3.Again anywhere you can go and view one?
4.Usually you can select your colour space. Chec with Dell.
5.No problems at all. If you shoot in sRGB, but your monitor display a wider colour gamut, there is no issue in my experience.

No store here sells ultrasharps. That's my main problem in choosing I think ;). Why is it so hard to get a 24" standard gamut IPS monitor with only light anti glare coating in a 16:10 ratio and for a good price? I think with specials the u2314 wld end up costing about $150-200 more than the 2412m. Is it worth it? Are there any other good, affordable options?
 
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