yeah considering my windows computer comes out with some sorta security patch alteast once a week maybe twice as to my old mac had like 3 security updates a yearThis is about the most ignorant statement I think he could have possibly made:
Sooo.... there's not millions of zombified Windows machines out there?
I know he's rich.. but is his 'own little world' really that insulated from reality?
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Bill Gates sounds rattled by Apple
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I'd point out that truth and reality are not concept that come easy to Mr. Gates.
Here is a sample exchange from the third clip...
Here is a sample exchange from the third clip...
DOJ Attorney: Yes. The industry and Microsoft tracks what is referred to as browser market share; correct, sir?
Bill Gates: No.
DOJ Attorney: No? Does Microsoft track browser market share?
Bill Gates: I've seen usage share.
DOJ Attorney: You've seen usage share?
Bill Gates: Uh-huh. But not -- market share usually refers to something related to -- not in usage.
And with browsers, I've seen mostly usage.
Now, some people might refer to that as a market share, but it's not a market share.
DOJ Attorney: What is a market share?
Bill Gates: Well, when I think of a market share, I think of where you're comparing the revenue of one company to the revenue of another company.
DOJ Attorney: The total revenue of a company?
Bill Gates: No, the revenue related to one company's product to the revenue of another company's product.
DOJ Attorney: And that's what you think of when you use the term market share.
Is that your testimony?
Bill Gates: Usually.
DOJ Attorney: Are you aware of documents within Microsoft that describe browser share as the company's number one goal?
Bill Gates: No. I'm aware of documents within Paul Maritz's group that may have stated that.
DOJ Attorney: Is Paul Maritz's group within Microsoft?
Bill Gates: Yes, but his -- he doesn't set the company-wide goals.
DOJ Attorney: Mr. Maritz you identified
last week as being a group vice president; is
that correct?
Bill Gates: Uh-huh. Several times.
DOJ Attorney: And he is the group vice president with responsibility for Windows; is that correct?
Bill Gates: That's among his responsibilities.
DOJ Attorney: And included in his responsibilities was Internet Explorer; is that correct?
Bill Gates: Our browsing technology was part of that group.
DOJ Attorney: Was Internet Explorer part of that group?
Bill Gates: Yes.
DOJ Attorney: Now, did you ever tell Mr. Maritz that browser share was not the company's number one goal?
Bill Gates: No.
DOJ Attorney: You knew Mr. Maritz was telling people that browser share was the company's number one goal, did you not, sir?
Bill Gates: I knew that Mr. Maritz was saying to people that the -- that a top goal and perhaps number one goal for his group was browser usage share.
DOJ Attorney: Now, you've put in the words usage share there.
When Mr. Maritz was telling people that browser share was the number one goal, was Mr. Maritz saying browser usage share or just browser share, sir?
Bill Gates: You'd have to ask him. I think he meant usage share.
DOJ Attorney: I'm not asking what he meant.
And perhaps my question was unclear. I'm asking what he said or wrote.
Do you understand the question?
Bill Gates: What writings are we talking about?
DOJ Attorney: Let me ask you the question, Mr. Gates, since you're the witness.
Are you aware of any time that Mr. Maritz wrote in an e-mail or said or otherwise communicated to people that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: The number one goal for what?
DOJ Attorney: Just the number one goal for the company, let's start with that.
Are you aware of any time when Mr. Maritz said that?
Bill Gates: Where he said it was the number one goal for the whole company?
DOJ Attorney: I didn't say the whole company. I didn't put in the word whole, Mr. Gates.
And I know that you're very precise in the way you use words, so I want to make sure the questions and answers meet.
The question is, are you aware of any instance in which Mr. Maritz, in words or in substance, communicated that browser share was the number one goal for the company? And by the company, I mean Microsoft.
Bill Gates: I don't remember any such case.
DOJ Attorney: Are you aware of any
instance in which Mr. Maritz communicated in
words or in substance that browser share was
the number one goal for his group?
Bill Gates: I think there was a point where he did that. I don't remember the document, but I think there was a point.
DOJ Attorney: Do you know why Mr. Maritz came to the view that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: For his group?
DOJ Attorney: Did he say for his group in
the communications --
Bill Gates: Well --
DOJ Attorney: -- that you're talking about?
Bill Gates: It's not his position to set goals for the entire company, so when he says something that's a goal, it's certainly implied it's a goal for his group.
DOJ Attorney: Interpreting what Mr. Maritz has communicated in light of that, do you know how Mr. Maritz came to the view that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: Well, I think he was aware of the increasing popularity of the Internet and the growing usage of the Internet and felt that all the many, many innovations we were doing in Windows, that a particular focus had to be doing the best job on the Internet and Internet browsing features of the operating system and seeing if we could innovate enough to make people prefer to use that technology from us.
DOJ Attorney: Mr. Gates, isn't it the case that you told Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal and that's why he believed it?
Bill Gates: I guess now we're delving into the inner workings of Paul Maritz's mind and how he comes to conclusions?
DOJ Attorney: Well, let me try to ask you a question that won't inquire you to delve into anybody else's mind.
Did you tell Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: I know we talked about browser share being important.
DOJ Attorney: I'm not asking you what he said to you. I'm not asking what topic you talked about. I'm asking you whether you told Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: I remember that we agreed that it was an important goal. I'm not sure which one of us reached that feeling before the other.
DOJ Attorney: Have you communicated to
people other than Mr. Maritz within Microsoft
that browser share was a very, very important
goal?
Bill Gates: Well, you've used several times the very, very. And I don't know if you're asking me specifically about sometime where I used the words very, very, is that the question?
DOJ Attorney: Let me begin with that question.
Have you communicated to people within Microsoft, other than Mr. Maritz, that browser share was a very, very important goal, using those words?
Bill Gates: I don't remember using those words.
DOJ Attorney: Have you communicated the substance of that to people within Microsoft?
Bill Gates: Help me understand. If you communicate to people that something is important, is the substance of that identical to communicating to them it's very, very important?
DOJ Attorney: Would it be, in your view, Mr. Gates, if you were using those terms, would important be the same as very, very important?
Bill Gates: Not identical.
DOJ Attorney: What would be the difference?
Bill Gates: The two very's.
DOJ Attorney: And what significance in terms of substance would those two very's have?
Bill Gates: A speaker's tendency towards hyperbole.
DOJ Attorney: Other than your tendency, if you have one, to a hyperbole, would there be anything different that you would be communicating to people if you were to say browser share is an important goal or browser share is a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: You'd have to look at the context to see.
DOJ Attorney: As you sit here now, what you've told me is that you recall communicating that browser share was an important goal, but not a very, very important goal.
And all I'm trying to do is find out whether you draw a distinction in terms of the substance of those communications.
Bill Gates: And I said, it would depend on the context.
DOJ Attorney: Let me ask you to look at at least one context, and that would be Exhibit 358 that we marked during your deposition last week. And it is in the stack of exhibits that you have in front of you.
Did you write Exhibit 358, Mr. Gates, on or about January 5, 1996?
Bill Gates: I don't remember doing so specifically, but it appears that I did.
DOJ Attorney: And the first line of this is, winning Internet browser share is a very, very important goal for us.
Do you see that?
Bill Gates: I do.
DOJ Attorney: Do you remember writing that, sir?
Bill Gates: Not specifically.
DOJ Attorney: Now, when you were referring there to Internet browser share, what were the companies who were included in that?
Bill Gates: There's no companies included
in that.
DOJ Attorney: Well, if you're winning browser share, that must mean that some other company is producing browsers and you're comparing your share of browsers with somebody else's share of browsers.
Is that not so, sir?
Bill Gates: You asked me if there are any companies included in that and now -- I'm very confused about what you're asking.
DOJ Attorney: All right, sir. Let me see if I can try to clarify it.
You say here, quote, winning Internet browser share is a very, very important goal for us, close quote.
What companies were supplying browsers whose share you were talking about?
Bill Gates: It doesn't appear that I'm talking about any other companies in that sentence.
DOJ Attorney: Well, sir, is a market share something that is compiled only for one company?
I understand if a company has a monopoly, that may be so, but in a usual situation where a company does not have a monopoly, share ordinarily implies comparing how much of a product one company has with how much of a product another company has; correct?
Bill Gates: Yes.
DOJ Attorney: Now, when you were talking about Internet browser share here, what companies were you talking about?
Bill Gates: You're trying -- you seem to be suggesting that just because share involves comparing multiple companies, that when I wrote that sentence, I was talking about other companies.
It doesn't appear that I'm talking about other companies in that sentence. I've really read it very carefully, and I don't notice any other companies in there.
DOJ Attorney: Oh, you mean you don't see any other company mentioned in that sentence. Is that what you're saying?
Bill Gates: The sentence doesn't appear to directly or indirectly refer to any other companies.
DOJ Attorney: When you refer to an Internet browser share here, sir, what is the share of?
Bill Gates: Browser usage.
DOJ Attorney: Of course, you don't say browser usage here, do you, sir?
Bill Gates: No, it says share.
DOJ Attorney: Now, let's say that you meant browser usage because that's what your testimony is.
What browser usage were you talking about in terms of what your share of browser usage was? What browsers?
Bill Gates: I'm not getting your question.
Are you trying to ask what I was thinking when I wrote this sentence?
DOJ Attorney: Let me begin with that.
What were you thinking when you --
Bill Gates: I don't remember specifically writing this sentence.
DOJ Attorney: Does that mean you can't answer what you were thinking when you wrote the sentence?
Bill Gates: That's correct.
DOJ Attorney: So since you don't have an answer to that question, let me put a different question.
Bill Gates: I have an answer. The answer is I don't remember.
DOJ Attorney: Okay. You don't remember what you meant.
Let me try to ask you --
Bill Gates: I don't remember what I was thinking.
DOJ Attorney: Is there a difference between remembering what you were thinking and remembering what you meant?
Bill Gates: If the question is what I meant when I wrote it, no.
DOJ Attorney: Okay. So you don't remember what you were thinking when you wrote it and you don't remember what you meant when you wrote it. Is that fair?
Bill Gates: As well as not remember
writing it.
Bill Gates: No.
DOJ Attorney: No? Does Microsoft track browser market share?
Bill Gates: I've seen usage share.
DOJ Attorney: You've seen usage share?
Bill Gates: Uh-huh. But not -- market share usually refers to something related to -- not in usage.
And with browsers, I've seen mostly usage.
Now, some people might refer to that as a market share, but it's not a market share.
DOJ Attorney: What is a market share?
Bill Gates: Well, when I think of a market share, I think of where you're comparing the revenue of one company to the revenue of another company.
DOJ Attorney: The total revenue of a company?
Bill Gates: No, the revenue related to one company's product to the revenue of another company's product.
DOJ Attorney: And that's what you think of when you use the term market share.
Is that your testimony?
Bill Gates: Usually.
DOJ Attorney: Are you aware of documents within Microsoft that describe browser share as the company's number one goal?
Bill Gates: No. I'm aware of documents within Paul Maritz's group that may have stated that.
DOJ Attorney: Is Paul Maritz's group within Microsoft?
Bill Gates: Yes, but his -- he doesn't set the company-wide goals.
DOJ Attorney: Mr. Maritz you identified
last week as being a group vice president; is
that correct?
Bill Gates: Uh-huh. Several times.
DOJ Attorney: And he is the group vice president with responsibility for Windows; is that correct?
Bill Gates: That's among his responsibilities.
DOJ Attorney: And included in his responsibilities was Internet Explorer; is that correct?
Bill Gates: Our browsing technology was part of that group.
DOJ Attorney: Was Internet Explorer part of that group?
Bill Gates: Yes.
DOJ Attorney: Now, did you ever tell Mr. Maritz that browser share was not the company's number one goal?
Bill Gates: No.
DOJ Attorney: You knew Mr. Maritz was telling people that browser share was the company's number one goal, did you not, sir?
Bill Gates: I knew that Mr. Maritz was saying to people that the -- that a top goal and perhaps number one goal for his group was browser usage share.
DOJ Attorney: Now, you've put in the words usage share there.
When Mr. Maritz was telling people that browser share was the number one goal, was Mr. Maritz saying browser usage share or just browser share, sir?
Bill Gates: You'd have to ask him. I think he meant usage share.
DOJ Attorney: I'm not asking what he meant.
And perhaps my question was unclear. I'm asking what he said or wrote.
Do you understand the question?
Bill Gates: What writings are we talking about?
DOJ Attorney: Let me ask you the question, Mr. Gates, since you're the witness.
Are you aware of any time that Mr. Maritz wrote in an e-mail or said or otherwise communicated to people that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: The number one goal for what?
DOJ Attorney: Just the number one goal for the company, let's start with that.
Are you aware of any time when Mr. Maritz said that?
Bill Gates: Where he said it was the number one goal for the whole company?
DOJ Attorney: I didn't say the whole company. I didn't put in the word whole, Mr. Gates.
And I know that you're very precise in the way you use words, so I want to make sure the questions and answers meet.
The question is, are you aware of any instance in which Mr. Maritz, in words or in substance, communicated that browser share was the number one goal for the company? And by the company, I mean Microsoft.
Bill Gates: I don't remember any such case.
DOJ Attorney: Are you aware of any
instance in which Mr. Maritz communicated in
words or in substance that browser share was
the number one goal for his group?
Bill Gates: I think there was a point where he did that. I don't remember the document, but I think there was a point.
DOJ Attorney: Do you know why Mr. Maritz came to the view that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: For his group?
DOJ Attorney: Did he say for his group in
the communications --
Bill Gates: Well --
DOJ Attorney: -- that you're talking about?
Bill Gates: It's not his position to set goals for the entire company, so when he says something that's a goal, it's certainly implied it's a goal for his group.
DOJ Attorney: Interpreting what Mr. Maritz has communicated in light of that, do you know how Mr. Maritz came to the view that browser share was the number one goal?
Bill Gates: Well, I think he was aware of the increasing popularity of the Internet and the growing usage of the Internet and felt that all the many, many innovations we were doing in Windows, that a particular focus had to be doing the best job on the Internet and Internet browsing features of the operating system and seeing if we could innovate enough to make people prefer to use that technology from us.
DOJ Attorney: Mr. Gates, isn't it the case that you told Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal and that's why he believed it?
Bill Gates: I guess now we're delving into the inner workings of Paul Maritz's mind and how he comes to conclusions?
DOJ Attorney: Well, let me try to ask you a question that won't inquire you to delve into anybody else's mind.
Did you tell Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: I know we talked about browser share being important.
DOJ Attorney: I'm not asking you what he said to you. I'm not asking what topic you talked about. I'm asking you whether you told Mr. Maritz that browser share was a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: I remember that we agreed that it was an important goal. I'm not sure which one of us reached that feeling before the other.
DOJ Attorney: Have you communicated to
people other than Mr. Maritz within Microsoft
that browser share was a very, very important
goal?
Bill Gates: Well, you've used several times the very, very. And I don't know if you're asking me specifically about sometime where I used the words very, very, is that the question?
DOJ Attorney: Let me begin with that question.
Have you communicated to people within Microsoft, other than Mr. Maritz, that browser share was a very, very important goal, using those words?
Bill Gates: I don't remember using those words.
DOJ Attorney: Have you communicated the substance of that to people within Microsoft?
Bill Gates: Help me understand. If you communicate to people that something is important, is the substance of that identical to communicating to them it's very, very important?
DOJ Attorney: Would it be, in your view, Mr. Gates, if you were using those terms, would important be the same as very, very important?
Bill Gates: Not identical.
DOJ Attorney: What would be the difference?
Bill Gates: The two very's.
DOJ Attorney: And what significance in terms of substance would those two very's have?
Bill Gates: A speaker's tendency towards hyperbole.
DOJ Attorney: Other than your tendency, if you have one, to a hyperbole, would there be anything different that you would be communicating to people if you were to say browser share is an important goal or browser share is a very, very important goal?
Bill Gates: You'd have to look at the context to see.
DOJ Attorney: As you sit here now, what you've told me is that you recall communicating that browser share was an important goal, but not a very, very important goal.
And all I'm trying to do is find out whether you draw a distinction in terms of the substance of those communications.
Bill Gates: And I said, it would depend on the context.
DOJ Attorney: Let me ask you to look at at least one context, and that would be Exhibit 358 that we marked during your deposition last week. And it is in the stack of exhibits that you have in front of you.
Did you write Exhibit 358, Mr. Gates, on or about January 5, 1996?
Bill Gates: I don't remember doing so specifically, but it appears that I did.
DOJ Attorney: And the first line of this is, winning Internet browser share is a very, very important goal for us.
Do you see that?
Bill Gates: I do.
DOJ Attorney: Do you remember writing that, sir?
Bill Gates: Not specifically.
DOJ Attorney: Now, when you were referring there to Internet browser share, what were the companies who were included in that?
Bill Gates: There's no companies included
in that.
DOJ Attorney: Well, if you're winning browser share, that must mean that some other company is producing browsers and you're comparing your share of browsers with somebody else's share of browsers.
Is that not so, sir?
Bill Gates: You asked me if there are any companies included in that and now -- I'm very confused about what you're asking.
DOJ Attorney: All right, sir. Let me see if I can try to clarify it.
You say here, quote, winning Internet browser share is a very, very important goal for us, close quote.
What companies were supplying browsers whose share you were talking about?
Bill Gates: It doesn't appear that I'm talking about any other companies in that sentence.
DOJ Attorney: Well, sir, is a market share something that is compiled only for one company?
I understand if a company has a monopoly, that may be so, but in a usual situation where a company does not have a monopoly, share ordinarily implies comparing how much of a product one company has with how much of a product another company has; correct?
Bill Gates: Yes.
DOJ Attorney: Now, when you were talking about Internet browser share here, what companies were you talking about?
Bill Gates: You're trying -- you seem to be suggesting that just because share involves comparing multiple companies, that when I wrote that sentence, I was talking about other companies.
It doesn't appear that I'm talking about other companies in that sentence. I've really read it very carefully, and I don't notice any other companies in there.
DOJ Attorney: Oh, you mean you don't see any other company mentioned in that sentence. Is that what you're saying?
Bill Gates: The sentence doesn't appear to directly or indirectly refer to any other companies.
DOJ Attorney: When you refer to an Internet browser share here, sir, what is the share of?
Bill Gates: Browser usage.
DOJ Attorney: Of course, you don't say browser usage here, do you, sir?
Bill Gates: No, it says share.
DOJ Attorney: Now, let's say that you meant browser usage because that's what your testimony is.
What browser usage were you talking about in terms of what your share of browser usage was? What browsers?
Bill Gates: I'm not getting your question.
Are you trying to ask what I was thinking when I wrote this sentence?
DOJ Attorney: Let me begin with that.
What were you thinking when you --
Bill Gates: I don't remember specifically writing this sentence.
DOJ Attorney: Does that mean you can't answer what you were thinking when you wrote the sentence?
Bill Gates: That's correct.
DOJ Attorney: So since you don't have an answer to that question, let me put a different question.
Bill Gates: I have an answer. The answer is I don't remember.
DOJ Attorney: Okay. You don't remember what you meant.
Let me try to ask you --
Bill Gates: I don't remember what I was thinking.
DOJ Attorney: Is there a difference between remembering what you were thinking and remembering what you meant?
Bill Gates: If the question is what I meant when I wrote it, no.
DOJ Attorney: Okay. So you don't remember what you were thinking when you wrote it and you don't remember what you meant when you wrote it. Is that fair?
Bill Gates: As well as not remember
writing it.
wow this may be worse than mark mcgwires testomoney it almost makes Mark looke like he did nothin lol
Ah, thanks for the memories! Here's a few more (Portions of Bill Gates' 1998 videotaped deposition for the Department of Justice.).
honestly what do you guys expect here? i really doubt if he's in his "own little world" as some of y'all claim, i mean, look at his freakin exchange with the DOJ attorney. he knows what he said was B.S but he'll say it anyway because he's the head of MS. did you want him to break down and sob admitting how Apple's OS is screwing Vista six ways from Sunday before it was even released? i'd loved to see it but it ain't gonna happen.
in a subtle way i think he gave props to Apple (where said he would sit someone down to show 'em how to make a dvd...etc) and that to me is pretty impressive. i don't think i've ever seen a public statement from him regarding Google or Firefox but then again i don't linger on his every word.
so is Gates rattled by what Jobs is doing? i doubt it...but he's definitely taking notice. he's not a stupid man by all means, many CEO's out there are probably as bright as a dead light bulb and are about as threatening as a kitten. Gates on the other hand...he'd probably knife you through the heart and shoot you for good measure if he thought you were pissin in his corn flakes...and he'll end up owning your hotdog stand or whatever else you had.
just wondering though...how long will it take the average user to figure out that Vista is just a gussied up XP? kinda like the normal girl-next-door who all of a sudden lost 10 pounds and discovered make up...
in a subtle way i think he gave props to Apple (where said he would sit someone down to show 'em how to make a dvd...etc) and that to me is pretty impressive. i don't think i've ever seen a public statement from him regarding Google or Firefox but then again i don't linger on his every word.
so is Gates rattled by what Jobs is doing? i doubt it...but he's definitely taking notice. he's not a stupid man by all means, many CEO's out there are probably as bright as a dead light bulb and are about as threatening as a kitten. Gates on the other hand...he'd probably knife you through the heart and shoot you for good measure if he thought you were pissin in his corn flakes...and he'll end up owning your hotdog stand or whatever else you had.
just wondering though...how long will it take the average user to figure out that Vista is just a gussied up XP? kinda like the normal girl-next-door who all of a sudden lost 10 pounds and discovered make up...
LOL. More like she gained 10 pounds, by having a boob job. Vista is anything but lean.
B
LOL. More like she gained 10 pounds, by having a boob job. Vista is anything but lean.
So, we should switch to Vista?
So, we should switch to Vista?
Now that's a matter of taste, which I would not presume to impose on anyone.
If you like your beauty skin deep and artificial....
B
After reading those transcripts, I almost have more respect for the guy - he's running rings around the attorney in both of them. Those above read almost like comedy sketches, particularly the former.
It also highlights the utmost importance of anti-trust legislation!
It also highlights the utmost importance of anti-trust legislation!
He's just being disingenuous. Judges tend not to be too impressed by this sort of behavior. The judge in this case certainly wasn't.
Conceptual semantics might make Billy feel clever and superior, but most prosecutors and judges aren't impressed by verbal dodgeball.
Right, exactly. The judges in this case expressed frequent frustration with Microsoft and their legal time over issues such as this, to the extent that Microsoft tried to get a judge thrown off the case for having expressed his frustrations.