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MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Wow that is crazy. Let us know how it turns out, and if you find out any info for why it might have happened.

That is really strange, did you Google it?

No explanation of why it happened only what to do if it did.... Thankfully its been grand since.

Today has been interesting so far certainly, there are a lot of things I like about it, there are blindingly obvious flaws though that mean it could never be my priority handset as it stands. I'll cover all that in my review tomorrow :)

Yup, it does that. I put my AT&T Sim into my friend's VZW Z10 and the Splash screen changed.

That's quite clever, saves having to bake a different version of the OS fr each carrier :)
 

Sunsenista

macrumors newbie
Feb 21, 2012
15
0
Hong-Kong
I give a try to both BB Q10 and Z10 :

-Experience with the Hub is nice with the phone
-keyboard is awesome one of the best out there
And then that's all ...

I wanted that phone especially for work, so not trying to download things from web or side load app...

Update is pushed by carrier, I live in Asia,expat so I'm kind of f...
No update means cannot have newer app...happened for Skype ...

If you don't side load then your apps is very limited

Battery getting freaking hot when I used my phone like a hotspot for my iPad.

Multiple reboot = no way for a professional phone..

Phone camera quality is just awful I went to a blackberry event in Hongkong and there was a small concert my pictures sucked ass compared to other ppl with their iPhone new Samsung ...
Not clear at all even after stabilization

Well I gave BB three times a try for myself it's now over wont buy watch or even out 1$ for them..
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
The Review......

Blackberry Z10 REVIEW

The good, the bad & the ugly...........


Well folks I have been promising this review for the past couple of days and now I am at a stage where I can at least proffer an opinion on the handset, and cover some of what I have found to be good, the bits that are bad and the areas which are sadly just 'ugly'....


HARDWARE

The Z10 is an attractive phone for the most part. The matte plastic shell does a good job of hiding finger print and the soft plastic back indeed makes the phone rest easy in the palm of your hand. The phone sits comfortably between the iPhone 5 and the HTC One size wise.

There are couple of low points to the hardware design that sully the design however, namely that is the rear plastic cover which unlike the S4 back panel which is of similar construction, the S4 fits firmly and has no flex, whereas on the Z10 there is a touch of flex, as if the back isn't quite fitting properly. This means it doesn't feel quite as sturdy as it should and those that find the plastic case of the S4 to feel or look cheap, will find the Z10 much more disturbing in this regard.

The second low point hardware wise is the screen, whilst the 1280x768 resolution 4.3 screen offer good color reproduction, decent viewing angles and 350ppi resulting in crisp clear text, the problem is that the screen has a tendency to attract finger grease. Those familiar with the Xperia Z have seen this on that device, the Z10 is likewise as attractive to smudges. This is exacerbated by the fact that everything is based on gesture so of course you are swiping your finger gesture wise resulting in more smudging.

I'd recommend putting a SGP Ultra Crystal screen protector, they offer far better oleo-phobic coating to reduce finger prints.

Battery wise it ships with a 1800mAh battery, and whilst only offer a dual core snapdragon processor, that 1800mAh struggles to keep up with the phone in comparison to the 2300mAh battery in the flagship Android handsets (S4 / One).

The 8mp camera on the rear produces some decent results, I'll cover that later. The volume buttons and play/pause button are great, and the fact you can assign the volume buttons to act as forward and back for the music player is a great tweak.


SOFTWARE

BB OS 10.1

My Z10 comes with the current up to date software albeit with a small supplemental update when first setting up the device - Blackberry OS 10.2 is due out in a few months and may rectify a numbers of the bigger issues I have with the phone software wise, but it would be unfair to ignore this fact, but to make excuses as it is too. So I am basing this opinion on what is on my device NOW.

Stock Software, now my device came with no carrier bloat ware which is very impressive and welcome, but this may also be partially attributed to the fact that carriers just don't have dedicated software for BB OS 10.

Initial setup of the device guides you through selecting carrier if you have a sim inserted, connecting to your wifi network, updating OS software if an update is available, setting up BB iD and the setup of your email, twitter, linked in, Facebook accounts. PUSH is supported on .mac / .me email accounts alongside GMAIL support for contacts / calendar alongside email.

All good so far, with one caveat. Selecting what the phone will actually notify you about on each of these accounts is not available. Its all or nothing especially with Facebook. This can result in a lot of useless notifications.

Once our accounts are added we are ready to go....


Upon initially waking the device, swipe gesture from the blackberry logo upwards, you are presented with a basic iOS home screen layout. You can indeed hold down on an icon and arrange things into new pages or drag on top of each other to create folders. All of this is common within smartphones so whilst not revolutionary it is nice.

Interestingly whilst there is a text message app shortcut / icon there is no email app shortcuts. They are all consistently there in the blackberry HUB however. But it is strange that it gives a text message app icon as this is basically embedded into your hub anyway.

The stock apps are solid with decent clean UI elements. There isn't an awful amount of extras - its a case of WYSIWYG and for most part that's not a problem. Calendar, Music Player & Video Player, Weather, Calculator, Remember (a notes application that syncs with Evernote), clock, camera, BBM, search and voice search are all decent stock applications. Adobe Reader is pre-installed as it Docs to Go for reading your word / excel and PowerPoint documents on the go. Yes NONE of this is especially exciting, but they all do their respective jobs well. There is a an application that is basically a mobile shortcut to Dropbox, and your usual Social applications Facebook, Twitter, Linked-In and ForeSquare.

Small application highlights.

CAMERA

Camera software is simple, but elegantly put together. There is strangely no tap to focus however (coming with 10.2) doing so just results in the user taking a picture which takes some getting used to. Basically you have to allow a second or so before taking a photo to allow the camera to focus, for the most part it does an excellent job. There are no major over exposure issues, and the HDR setting is as good as the one on the iPhone 5 and tats very good.

When looking back at your photos you have the choice of editing them and the editing features are generally some of the best baked into an OS. The Instagram like filters are decent enough, but the auto enhance, saturation etc.. adjustments are all very good and all do a speedy and excellent job of touching up your photos on the fly.

Those familiar with HTC Zoe's will be pleased to hear about Storybook. Basically imagine HTC Zoe's share feature BB style, so you choose your pictures, the music track and a selection of templates very similar to ZOE and the phone assembles them, adds titling and then saves the resulting video. You can then save and share this video. Better still it allows you to output these at HD res too.

http://youtu.be/3V7QSdPxeGA



LIVE TILES / WIDGETS

A genuinely really nice feature is the minimised applications that are still actively running turn themselves into widgets. So your weather application becomes a weather widget, the picture library becomes an active little slide show, clock displays a nice digital or analogue widget, music app shows currently playing song etc, calendar displays your appointments that day.. This is a really nice feature and well implemented.

BLUETOOTH

I paired by Sony SBH20 NFC BT headset to the device without issue, but I ave detected a little audio jitters when listening to music through the Bluetooth headset. Micro jitters / interruptions to the audio.

Call quality through Bluetooth headset has been perfect however, so I suspect these jitters in music playback are a software bug / issue.


AS A PHONE

Call quality is very good and reception is generally excellent. In areas where there are black spots of coverage the phone managed to stay connected, so far no drop calls.
Others have said voice calls sound clear and crisp. So no complaints as far as a 'phone' is concerned.

BB-HUB

The blackberry hub is excellent. I love being able to access my emails, text messages and other notifications in one centralised area. Being able to post updates, reply to emails, messages and twitter without having to launch separate applications is great.

BROWSER IS EXCELLENT

The web browser on the BB Z10 has been a very pleasant surprise. Its remarkably accomplished and superior in both speed and rendering to chrome on Android, stock browsers on S4 & HTC One and even Safari on the iPhone.

Web pages load and render very quickly, giving even desktop safari on my mac a run for its money speed wise.

Flash is supported if you need it, but HTML 5 content all seems to work excellently so far. Very impressed with it, and genuinely a pleasant surprise.

Apple & Google should both take note....

KEYBOARD

I find the keyboard to be a mixed bag. Generally I'm very impressed. I like the spacing and layout and find typing on it to be very accurate. The auto correct is generally spot on. The swipe up for quick filling out of words is very strange and takes me longer to do than just type out the message with auto correct. But overall its certainly one of the best on screen keyboards.



AND NOW THE NOT SO GOOD

Incomplete 'apps'...

The social media applications are actually not supplied by their respective company but by blackberry which means whilst they superficially appear similar to Android and iOS counterparts they are missing features. Twitter doesn't have direct messaging, Facebook settings result in having to go to mobile website.

App World
Blackberry App World is pitiful. Seriously the app selection is appalling. There is no discernible way of telling if an application is a badly ported android app or built for BB OS10. There is just such an empty fathom of applications most smartphone users will be accustomed too.

There is no YouTube, Tumbler, Vine, Netflix, Google Maps, Currents, Pulse, Engadget, The Verge, Instagram, TV services (BBC iPlayer, Sky News, 4OD etc.) Flipboard, Spotify, Tapatalk...

Its a barren wasteland of the major apps ..


BATTERY

1800 mAh battery struggles. Considering my HTC One has my RSS reader running n the background along side all the other myriad of apps I utilise each day, a quad core CPU and bigger higher resolution screen - I normally end my day with at least half my battery remaining. The Z10 battery only 'just' lasts me a day. Considering I'm using it less (as there are less applications) this is not great. Whereas I would have no qualms going away and forgetting my charger for the day / night with my One, the Z10 would be flatter than a pancake.

Charging is thankfully quite speedy though.


GENERAL PERFORMANCE

A hard category really as for most part the phone is fine performance wise, however open a badly optimised app or an android app and you will get some stuttery performance. Add that to my incident of an update sending the z10 into a security wipe, the fact the phone still takes about 2 minutes to boot up there are certainly plenty of room for Blackberry to improve upon. The Blackberry software seems to run without issue it s as soon as a third party is introduced things get ropey, and as Blackberry are the ones approving of third party software - they have to take some of the blame allowing such utter ***** onto App world and users devices.

BAD STUFF & GENERAL CONCLUSION

So I'm left at the moment with a phone with decent stock apps but feck all else on the phone? Now 10.2 is supposed to offer support for Android 4.2 framework meaning we may get better apps appear on the store and from reports general performance and battery life has improved.

But with such lack of support currently on the App Store and battery life wise being hit and miss could I honestly recommend the Z10 as a 'flagship' smartphone.

Sadly no. Specs wise they are actually mid range by android standards , and with far wider software support on Android and IOS I couldn't advise someone to take out a two year contract on the Z10 or pop down €600 on a device - sim free given the stiff competition out there.

Free on contract or at €300 contract free the Z10 would be about right, but commanding flagship money for what tends to feel like an 'incomplete' smartphone experience is hard to recommend.

The camera is the best blackberry have put into a phone, the hub is great..... Live tile widgets are arguably better than Windows Phones live tiles and feel better utilisation than some of Android widgets, and the really good on screen keyboard - these are high points , but they don't mask an incomplete smartphone experience.


___________________________________

Few camera snaps...

IMG_00000022.jpg

IMG_00000019.jpg

IMG_00000025_hdr.jpg

IMG_00000027.jpg

IMG_00000029_hdr.jpg
 
Last edited:

Fireblade

macrumors 65816
Jan 25, 2011
1,101
321
Italy
Nice read MRU, appreciate your efforts.
Reading your awesome review (I have read worse on some well known tech sites) confirms that BB as a whole is nothing for me.

Thank you! :)
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
onfirms that BB as a whole is nothing for me.

For most existing smartphone owners it would be hard to see why they would go to blackberry tbh.

Especially if BBM comes to iPhone & Android, I really can't see why an existing BB owner wanting smartphone experience would stick with BB over iOS or Android given third party application support on those devices.

Personally I am a gadget man and I don't have any real allegiances to a brand or manufacturer so I just wanted to try it - for my own curiosity, and I got it cheap which was the deal breaker. That was enough justification, but it won't be my primary handset - indeed it will likely be traded in for something else later ....

In the last few years ive had nearly them all, webOS, MeeGo, Windows Phone 7, 7.5, 8, all the iOS's, Android Ginger bread, Ice Cream Sandwich and jelly Bean, BB 7 and now BB10..... Yet my appetite for something new remains always :)
 

Fireblade

macrumors 65816
Jan 25, 2011
1,101
321
Italy
I know you are a gadget man, so am I, and there is nothing wrong about that ;).

One thing I really don't get:
What is all about the excitement about BBM?
What does it better than iMessage or Whats App?
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
I know you are a gadget man, so am I, and there is nothing wrong about that ;).

One thing I really don't get:
What is all about the excitement about BBM?
What does it better than iMessage or Whats App?

I don't know tbh. No one on my address book has BBM, compared to those on say whatsapp, iMessage and google talk/hangouts etc...

I have been repeatedly told a lot of teenagers are using it but yeah like you I don't get the big deal.

To be honest since most networks here - even pay as you go - offer free text messages to all networks even on the cheapest plans - its SMS that seems most used between all my contacts....

But yeah BBM means nothing to me, but it has to exist for a reason - so presumably there are a lot of folks who can't live without it....
 

mikeo007

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2010
1,373
122
Nice review. Interesting to hear your take on the Hub and browser especially.

Hub seems to be a very polarizing issue...people either love or hate it. I personally can't stand it, but that's just my preference.

Also wondering, have you done a lot of testing with the browser? On my Q10 I find that it does load some pages faster, however it also hangs a lot more on other pages, especially ones that rely on a lot of javascript. I also find navigating around web pages to be quite clunky.

In fact, clunky is a good descriptor for how the whole OS experience feels in general. It's a good start, but they've got a long ways to go. If they make all the right moves over the next 2-3 years (and survive that long) then maybe they'll have something good on their hands.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Nice review. Interesting to hear your take on the Hub and browser especially.

Hub seems to be a very polarizing issue...people either love or hate it. I personally can't stand it, but that's just my preference.

Also wondering, have you done a lot of testing with the browser? On my Q10 I find that it does load some pages faster, however it also hangs a lot more on other pages, especially ones that rely on a lot of javascript. I also find navigating around web pages to be quite clunky.

In fact, clunky is a good descriptor for how the whole OS experience feels in general. It's a good start, but they've got a long ways to go. If they make all the right moves over the next 2-3 years (and survive that long) then maybe they'll have something good on their hands.

Tbh I find navigating web pages properly on any mobile device quite clunky - haven't experienced any 'hangs' just yet though.

What don't you like about the hub?
 

mikeo007

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2010
1,373
122
Tbh I find navigating web pages properly on any mobile device quite clunky - haven't experienced any 'hangs' just yet though.

What don't you like about the hub?

The clunky-ness I find is when clicking through links, etc. BB10 just seems to have less precision than iOS and Android. Zooming is also often a chore, with the view ending up centred awkwardly, and blurry text taking a few seconds to become legible. I also find scrolling to be so un-refined...on Safari, if you scroll up/down, and drag your finger slightly left or right, it doesn't pull the screen to the side, it keeps the same vertical scrolling. On BB10 it just tracks your finger all over, making it hard to keep the page horizontally aligned. Maybe un-refined is a better description than clunky.

Hangs happen on pages like TSN.ca for me. Not always, but frequently enough that its noticeable.

The hub is just too much in one place for me. It's a "junk drawer". I like the option to separate my email, SMS, Facebook, twitter, etc. The whole always-on thing with the hub is interesting, but useless for me until it becomes more customizable. In all honesty, one of my favourite things about the old blackberry was how it had the universal inbox, but also let you separate everything out as well.

BB10 (and the Q10 in particular) has grown on me as I've used it, but I still just keep running into little problems every day that really make the experience suffer. I don't think it's good enough to be #1 or #2, and looking at the new 10.2 update, it's not necessarily moving in the right direction to differentiate itself. It's not bad, it's just not good enough to pull most people in from other platforms.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
.

BB10 (and the Q10 in particular) has grown on me as I've used it, but I still just keep running into little problems every day that really make the experience suffer. I don't think it's good enough to be #1 or #2, and looking at the new 10.2 update, it's not necessarily moving in the right direction to differentiate itself. It's not bad, it's just not good enough to pull most people in from other platforms.


That's BB's biggest issue there. There just isn't the content to bring in folks who are using other smartphones. When windows phone makes BB10 look like a wasteland third party app wise you know things are bad.

Android framework hasn't bolstered the device app wise either, even sideloading apps is a clunky chore and most tend to not work properly anyway, leaving you with a very rough experience.

I do like the Z10 and BB10 - but not enough to ever give up android or iOS.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Have you sideloaded any Android apps yet?

Yeah using the chrome extension, and sadly not impressed.

Most do not work, those that do - don't work properly.

Google Currents - fail
Goolge Play Music - fail
YouTube - fail
Pulse - fail

Etc..

Flipboard - working but its slow
Netflix - just about working but makes the rest of the device sluggish when its open, as does Skype....


A few apps were badly signed as System apps meaning I can now not delete them without doing a full security wipe of the handset again.

So yeah - sideloading is poor :( and sadly not a good enough substitute.



-------

In other news.

Battery is seemingly now good - as long as I turn off gesture to wake device. With that off battery life doubles. Clearly the constant checking for finger detection for waking has considerable impact on battery life..
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
That's too bad. RIM was making a huge deal about it.

Google Maps on the Z10 would be great.

Google Maps does work (or at least an older version does) I have that installed successfully. However it is again is a lot slower than it would be running natively on android system. But yeah, that is at least one like Flipboard that does work in fairness.
 

samab

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2006
863
0
Right now, the Android runtime in 10.1 doesn't have hardware acceleration --- that's why sometimes it feels jerky and battery life suffers (because anytime the android runtime draws something on the screen, it's using the CPU instead of the GPU).

The biggest difference with 10.2 is the 4.2.2 Android runtime with hardware acceleration.

http://developer.blackberry.com/android/tools/roadmap/

10.2 also brings Adobe AIR runtime (which a lot of the Playbook-ported-BB10 apps were written on) to 3.5 with Stage3D hardware acceleration.

http://developer.blackberry.com/air/downloads/roadmap/

These 2 runtimes without hardware acceleration --- that's why all the jerkiness and less than perfect battery life.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Right now, the Android runtime in 10.1 doesn't have hardware acceleration --- that's why sometimes it feels jerky and battery life suffers (because anytime the android runtime draws something on the screen, it's using the CPU instead of the GPU).

The biggest difference with 10.2 is the 4.2.2 Android runtime with hardware acceleration.

http://developer.blackberry.com/android/tools/roadmap/

10.2 also brings Adobe AIR runtime (which a lot of the Playbook-ported-BB10 apps were written on) to 3.5 with Stage3D hardware acceleration.

http://developer.blackberry.com/air/downloads/roadmap/

These 2 runtimes without hardware acceleration --- that's why all the jerkiness and less than perfect battery life.


Yep 10.2 and those improvements specifically can't come soon enough really. :)
 

mikeo007

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2010
1,373
122
That's too bad. RIM was making a huge deal about it.

Google Maps on the Z10 would be great.

No, they weren't. Sideloading is a developer testing function. It was never meant as a means for the average user to load unauthorized apps onto the device. Blackberry has even come out publicly stating that they consider this piracy. But they don't seem to be doing anything about it since its kind of a life-line for BB10 at this point. Very hypocritical of them...

----------

Yep 10.2 and those improvements specifically can't come soon enough really. :)

And there's another of BlackBerry's biggest problems..."soon".
 

samab

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2006
863
0
No, they weren't. Sideloading is a developer testing function. It was never meant as a means for the average user to load unauthorized apps onto the device. Blackberry has even come out publicly stating that they consider this piracy. But they don't seem to be doing anything about it since its kind of a life-line for BB10 at this point. Very hypocritical of them...

But what can Blackberry do?

It is a feature for developer testing --- and we are talking about people writing screaming idiotic open letters to Blackberry complaining about every little thing like verifying developer identity (which Blackberry had to scrap that due to blogs like engadget/bgr/theverge publicized these open letters).
 

mikeo007

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2010
1,373
122
But what can Blackberry do?

It is a feature for developer testing --- and we are talking about people writing screaming idiotic open letters to Blackberry complaining about every little thing like verifying developer identity (which Blackberry had to scrap that due to blogs like engadget/bgr/theverge publicized these open letters).

I'm not talking about letters...it was a public statement made by their head of developer relations on more than one occasion. The fact that they are publicly against it, then proceed to do nothing about it is absolutely hypocritical. It would be like Apple stating that they're against jailbreaking, then not patching the exploits used to enable a jailbreak in the first place.

There are several solutions out there to easily avoid or at least limit sideloading piracy. Forcing a debug token seems like the most obvious, but they could go even further, or simpler. So far they've done nothing, and have actively dodged questions related to how they are going to handle the situation.
 

samab

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2006
863
0
I'm not talking about letters...it was a public statement made by their head of developer relations on more than one occasion. The fact that they are publicly against it, then proceed to do nothing about it is absolutely hypocritical. It would be like Apple stating that they're against jailbreaking, then not patching the exploits used to enable a jailbreak in the first place.

There are several solutions out there to easily avoid or at least limit sideloading piracy. Forcing a debug token seems like the most obvious, but they could go even further, or simpler. So far they've done nothing, and have actively dodged questions related to how they are going to handle the situation.

But that has nothing to do with Blackberry themselves. BB10 phones has debug tokens, has encrypted PC backup... --- you cannot pirate a BB10 app off from a BB10 phone.

http://developer.blackberry.com/android/documentation/configure_debug_token_1985136_11.html

Blackberry cannot change the way Google sells its apps on Google Play (which allows piracy). Blackberry also has to maintain as much compatibility as plain vanilla android so they cannot introduce additional anti-piracy features within dalvik engine and maintain plain vanilla android compatibility at the same time.
 

mikeo007

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2010
1,373
122
But that has nothing to do with Blackberry themselves. BB10 phones has debug tokens, has encrypted PC backup... --- you cannot pirate a BB10 app off from a BB10 phone.

http://developer.blackberry.com/android/documentation/configure_debug_token_1985136_11.html

Blackberry cannot change the way Google sells its apps on Google Play (which allows piracy). Blackberry also has to maintain as much compatibility as plain vanilla android so they cannot introduce additional anti-piracy features within dalvik engine and maintain plain vanilla android compatibility at the same time.

You're still missing the point. Blackberry provides a means for the average user to run pirated android apps.

If Chevy cuts keys to allow people to steal Ford cars, they're still an accessory to the theft. Even if the flaw was with the original cars, they're the ones who are exploiting it.

It's a disgrace that BB says one thing, but turns around and does another. It reeks of desperation.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
I'm enjoying this discussion.... [reaches for popcorn] :)


in other 'lighter' news, i find myself really like the official blackberry flip cover for the z10. Works just like the iPad smart cover and is great :)
 

LostSoul80

macrumors 68020
Jan 25, 2009
2,136
7
Very nice review, thanks.
Would you mind posting some screenshots detailing your favourite UI parts?
 
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