Boot OSX on a NVMe Card

[MIKX]

abdyfranco

Tonight after work I'll try the second mode install method with my Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 drive.
I've already created the 100mb partition on the 960 EVO.

Up until today I've been booting the 960 EVO as a Fusion drive with USB 3.o memory stick.
Hopefully your Next Loader will simplify booting.

 

[expede]

Tell us how it goes. I have trouble doing this. My EVO960 Pro is just a fast HD now.

 

[MIKX]

abdyfranco


NOTE : Sierra 10.12.6 in a 4,1> 5.1 cMP

My bootrom version is MP51.0085.B00.

SIP is enabled.

My HIS HD 7950 is EFI flashed
========================================
Created 100mb partition on my 960 EVO M.2 Named it " Boot"

Installed the SECOND MODE option

I could not complete the very last step. Could not enter " R ".

Tried many other variations as you can see from the Terminal grab

But the installer does say " The installation of Next Loader is complete. "

Shut down my cMP 4.1>5,1

Removed the USB 3.0 stick which has been the other 1/2 of my Fusion setup.

Removed all other drives except the 960 EVO.

Cold Rebooted. . ..

Got a " ?"

Nothing . . . ( yet ).

 

[MIKX]

( By the way,I have Sierra 10.12.6 installed )

Just did a PRAM reset with no other drives installed .. . nothing.

I wonder could my 960 EVO's UUID be relevant ?

 

[abdyfranco]

abdyfranco


NOTE : Sierra 10.12.6 in a 4,1> 5.1 cMP

My bootrom version is MP51.0085.B00.

SIP is enabled.

My HIS HD 7950 is EFI flashed
========================================
Created 100mb partition on my 960 EVO M.2 Named it " Boot"

View attachment 762661

Installed the SECOND MODE option

I could not complete the very last step. Could not enter " R ".

Tried many other variations as you can see from the Terminal grab

But the installer does say " The installation of Next Loader is complete. "

Shut down my cMP 4.1>5,1

Removed the USB 3.0 stick which has been the other 1/2 of my Fusion setup.

Removed all other drives except the 960 EVO.

Cold Rebooted. . ..

Got a " ?"

Nothing . . . ( yet ).


View attachment 762660

You must install Next Loader on a device that is bootable natively, not on the NVMe SSD. Any AHCI device works.

If you install Next Loader directly to the NVMe, the installer will bless it and try to boot from it, but since the Mac Pro does not have native NVMe drivers, it does not detect the SSD and displays the "?" icon.

While if you install Next Loader on a drive that is bootable, such as an internal HDD on the Mac Pro, the Mac Pro will be able to boot Next Loader and it will load the NVMe drivers and finally show you the option to boot your NVMe.

I just fixed the problem where the installer can't restart the Mac. Try downloading the installer again and replacing it with the previous one.
https://github.com/abdyfranco/next-loader/blob/master/build/install.sh

 

[donglory]

My late 2011 Macbook pro 15" keep going off and displaying Bad screen. sometimes after some restarts, it will come on and stay for a while sometimes a whole day. other times it will not even start to desktop but keep restarting. I generated a report which i have attached to this conversation. Has anyone experienced this issue before, Please i need a solution.

Thank you.

 

[h9826790]

First you need to create from the Disk Utility a partition of no more than 100MB, Once you have the partition done, run the installer from the Terminal and the installation wizard will appear.

Thanks for providing the clear procedures. I just want to confirm the requirement is really no more than 100MB.

 

[abdyfranco]

Thanks for providing the clear procedures. I just want to confirm the requirement is really no more than 100MB.

Next Loader requires about 50MB of space, Any size larger than 50MB works. I usually recommend 100MB, in case more space is needed in future updates.

 

[h9826790]

Next Loader requires about 50MB of space, Any size larger than 50MB works. I usually recommend 100MB, in case more space is needed in future updates.

Thanks! Because that sounds strange to me, so I would like to confirm that "no more than 100MB" is not a hard requirement (e.g. won't cause installation fail)
[doublepost=1527095290][/doublepost]Same bug as MIKX

 

[abdyfranco]

Thanks! Because that sounds strange to me, so I would like to confirm that "no more than 100MB" is not a hard requirement (e.g. won't cause installation fail)
[doublepost=1527095290][/doublepost]Same bug as MIKX
View attachment 762716

It's not a hard requirement, I usually install Next Loader on an 8GB USB stick for testing and it works fine.
[doublepost=1527096096][/doublepost]

Thanks! Because that sounds strange to me, so I would like to confirm that "no more than 100MB" is not a hard requirement (e.g. won't cause installation fail)
[doublepost=1527095290][/doublepost]Same bug as MIKX
View attachment 762716

I fixed the problem and uploaded it to GitHub, you can also restart the Mac manually.

 

[h9826790]

It's not a hard requirement, I usually install Next Loader on an 8GB USB stick for testing and it works fine.
[doublepost=1527096096][/doublepost]
I fixed the problem and uploaded it to GitHub, you can also restart the Mac manually.

Doesn't work.

Option 2.

Installed on the internal HDD in bay 1

After reboot, black screen on 1080Ti (no Mac EFI. UEFI GOP compatible)

White screen on GT120 (Mac EFI). Nothing loaded. Stay at white screen. Keyboard Caps lock key doesn't work.

If remove the HDD, stay at white screen for may be 15-20 seconds, keyboard caps lock key work. Then screen turn black, and auto shutdown after few more seconds.

For info, my recovery actions:
1) Remove Next Loader HDD
2) Insert a Yosemite installed HDD into bay 1
3) PRAM reset
4) boot to Yosemite
5) Select the current High Sierra partition
6) Shutdown
7) swap the Next Loader HDD back in
8) boot to High Sierra
9) remove Next Loader partition.

 

[abdyfranco]

Doesn't work.

Option 2.

Installed on the internal HDD in bay 1

After reboot, black screen on 1080Ti (no Mac EFI. UEFI GOP compatible)

White screen on GT120 (Mac EFI)

Nothing loaded. Stay at white screen. Keyboard Caps lock key doesn't work.

If remove the HDD, stay at white screen for may be 15-20 seconds, keyboard caps lock key work. Then screen turn black, and auto shutdown after few more seconds.

For info, my recovery actions:
1) Remove Next Loader HDD
2) Insert a Yosemite installed HDD into bay 1
3) PRAM reset
4) boot to Yosemite
5) Select the current High Sierra partition
6) Shutdown
7) swap the Next Loader HDD back in
8) boot to High Sierra
9) remove Next Loader partition.

Thanks for your feedback, From what you're telling me, it looks like some driver crashed. I'll check and try to find the problem and then I'll release another update.

 

[MIKX]

It's not a hard requirement, I usually install Next Loader on an 8GB USB stick for testing and it works fine.
[doublepost=1527096096][/doublepost]
I fixed the problem and uploaded it to GitHub, you can also restart the Mac manually.

abdyfranco

I don't recall seeing that ( USB stick ) requirement in your #150 post.

So Next Loader is another version of a "Fusion Drive" ?
I already have Sierra10.12.6 booting with Foxfoobar's setup, everything works.

( In testing Next Loader I removed the USB stick required for Foxfoobar's technique. )

I think we're looking for ( no USB stick ) 'native' NVMe booting such as the solution being worked on by gilles_polysoft

What advantage will your Next Loader offer over Foxfoobar's Fusion setup ? Both require a AHCI USB stick.

 

[h9826790]

abdyfranco

I don't recall seeing that ( USB stick ) requirement in your #150 post.

So Next Loader is another version of a "Fusion Drive" ?
I already have Sierra10.12.6 booting with Foxfoobar's setup, everything works.

( In testing Next Loader I removed the USB stick required for Foxfoobar's technique. )

I think we're looking for ( no USB stick ) 'native' NVMe booting such as the solution being worked on by gilles_polysoft

What advantage will your Next Loader offer over Foxfoobar's Fusion setup ? Both require a AHCI USB stick.

The Next Loader must be installed on any natively bootable drive (not just partition).

USB flash drive via USB 2.0 port on the cMP is natively bootable. Which makes the test easier, not a requirement.

 

[MIKX]

If it is NOT a requirement, at which point can we ( Next Loader ) boot an M.2 NVME WITHOUT having a USB stick installed ?

 

[abdyfranco]

abdyfranco

I don't recall seeing that ( USB stick ) requirement in your #150 post.

So Next Loader is another version of a "Fusion Drive" ?
I already have Sierra10.12.6 booting with Foxfoobar's setup, everything works.

( In testing Next Loader I removed the USB stick required for Foxfoobar's technique. )

I think we're looking for ( no USB stick ) 'native' NVMe booting such as the solution being worked on by gilles_polysoft

What advantage will your Next Loader offer over Foxfoobar's Fusion setup ? Both require a AHCI USB stick.

Next Loader is a boot manager, which has the ability to load drivers and comes with an integrated NVMe driver.
However, Next Loader must be installed on a drive that can be booted natively. It's not like Fusion Drive and it's not like the Foxfoobar hack.
It is similar to the process used in Hackintosh with Clover.

I'm working on a better alternative, which does not require partitioning any internal Mac drive, but that will be later when Next Loader is mature, secure and functional. At the moment it is in beta and in continuous development.

 

[MIKX]

abdyfranco

What are the advantages of Next Loader over Foxfoobar's technique ?

EG : What do you see Next Loader capable of after Beta.

 

[HaypurTiryading]

Next Loader: Just nvme, +100mb boot sector ahci/usb2. Nearly perfect. No spin drive or anything else. Everything is working from blade drive.

Foxfoobar: Nvme+ssd or nvme+spin drive. Mixing together. Not effective. Not perfect but usable for scratch disk.

gilles_polysoft's method: Just native nvme. Perfect solution.

Am I right? gilles_polysoft > next loader > foxfoobar

 

[abdyfranco]

abdyfranco

What are the advantages of Next Loader over Foxfoobar's technique ?

EG : What do you see Next Loader capable of after Beta.

See HaypurTiryading's explanation, It's the most accurate.

One of the main advantages compared to the Foxfoobar's solution is that Next Loader has a nice graphical interface, But not only that, Next Loader also has the ability to load EFI drivers and allow you to install basically any OS that supports EFI. Currently Next Loader is in a very early stage and I usually work on it only in my spare time, so not all features are working yet or have not been tested yet.

Next Loader: Just nvme, +100mb boot sector ahci/usb2. Nearly perfect. No spin drive or anything else. Everything is working from blade drive.

Foxfoobar: Nvme+ssd or nvme+spin drive. Mixing together. Not effective. Not perfect but usable for scratch disk.

gilles_polysoft's method: Just native nvme. Perfect solution.

Am I right? gilles_polysoft > next loader > foxfoobar

The gilles_polysoft solution looks perfect, But I think that many people are afraid to manually modify the firmware of the Mac, and I don't know how it would behave with High Sierra macOS updates, since each update usually comes with a new firmware.

When I saw the gilles_polysoft solution I considered not to continue the development of Next Loader, because its solution is the best, but I think Next Loader could be a good alternative to the one that doesn't want to modify the firmware of their Mac and also Next Loader works with several other Macs, including the Xserve, not just the Mac Pro.

 

[MIKX]

Gilles solution will be OK for testing . . if. . we can find reliable ways to BREAK any existing firmware. . . so that we can use the Apple Firmware Restore CD . . . in case something goes badly.

A bit of a convoluted, time consuming process and something that I would not attempt as I need my cMP for daily work.

Someone with TWO 4,1 or 5,1 cMP's might be OK with it. "Codejingle" comes to mind, he seems to have ba##s of Titanium . . . plus an 'insatiable hunger to know'.😀

Actually. Gilles appears to work for an authorised Apple dealer which probably has a few 4,1/ 5,1 cMPs lying around to play with.
That is the ideal testing environment. I'm jealous.

I have a strong feeling that native NVMe m.2 /SATA booting will become a reality in the near future.

Perhaps after High Sierra gets to GM stage.

With 26,000 views so far, there seems to be a lot of interest in this project.

Gilles has proved that Apple could have enabled NVMe M.2 / SATA booting for at least 5,1 cMPs.

Does it strike anyone that in Apple's history, NVMe is the only protocol that we can run apps from yet cannot boot from ( 2017 Macs aside - not sure exactly which models ) .
Seems intentional. Not nice on Apple's part considering Mac Pro original high retail prices.

If Gilles project becomes widespread successful it would become a huge slap in the face for T.C. demanding a response.

A common complaint about cMPs is our slow SATA II internal speeds. Two NVMe M.2 SATA's would enable me at least to remove ALL internal SATA II slot drives = reduce heat + increase data transfer speed. Gilles Twitter pics show all empty SATA internal bays - which would release the SATA II power connectors for GPU's or whatever.

Seems T.C. wants the cMP to fade away. I doubt that he has ever seriously used one nor does he appreciate the enormous defection of the Mac professional users to Windows due to the shameless neglect in Mac Pro development.

Just my honest opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DearthnVader]

Gilles solution will be OK for testing . . if. . we can find reliable ways to BREAK any existing firmware. . . so that we can use the Apple Firmware Restore CD . . . in case something goes badly.

A bit of a convoluted, time consuming process and something that I would not attempt as I need my cMP for daily work.

Someone with TWO 4,1 or 5,1 cMP's might be OK with it. "Codejingle" comes to mind, he seems to have ba##s of Titanium . . . plus an 'insatiable hunger to know'.😀

Actually. Gilles appears to work for an authorised Apple dealer which probably has a few 4,1/ 5,1 cMPs lying around to play with.
That is the ideal testing environment. I'm jealous.

I have a strong feeling that native NVMe m.2 /SATA booting will become a reality in the near future.

Perhaps after High Sierra gets to GM stage.

With 26,000 views so far, there seems to be a lot of interest in this project.

Gilles has proved that Apple could have enabled NVMe M.2 / SATA booting for at least 5,1 cMPs.

Does it strike anyone that in Apple's history, NVMe is the only protocol that we can run apps from yet cannot boot from ( 2017 Macs aside - not sure exactly which models ) .
Seems intentional. Not nice on Apple's part considering Mac Pro original high retail prices.

If Gilles project becomes widespread successful it would become a huge slap in the face for T.C. demanding a response.

A common complaint about cMPs is our slow SATA II internal speeds. Two NVMe M.2 SATA's would enable me at least to remove ALL internal SATA II slot drives = reduce heat + increase data transfer speed. Gilles Twitter pics show all empty SATA internal bays - which would release the SATA II power connectors for GPU's or whatever.

Seems T.C. wants the cMP to fade away. I doubt that he has ever seriously used one nor does he appreciate the enormous defection of the Mac professional users to Windows due to the shameless neglect in Mac Pro development.

Just my honest opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The cMP didn't have native M.2 slots, you can't really expect Apple to support 3rd party PCI-E carrier boards for M.2. That's a job for the 3rd party, there are just too many unknowns as to what brand and type of M.2 SSD people maybe using in their system.

 

[MIKX]

DearthnVader

Did Apple know about SATA III before the introduction of the 2012 5,1 cMP ?
= "Had THIS (SATA III ) been discussed within the Apple Hardware design community, prior to the 2012 cMP release ?

SATA III and information regarding this protocol were available to the general public from 2008.

Apple had already decided to kill cMP longevity.


What I'm ( just me ) getting at is that many. many MP owners paid ex ordinate prices to buy these machines
yet have not received the deserved support from Apple . . . .. . since Steve Jobs fell sick.

In my case, I was raising 2 very young children in Japan when I bought my 2,1 cMP.

Those of you ( still, comfortably in your own country ) without kids will not be able to relate to this scenario.

It was hard.

 

[DearthnVader]

DearthnVader

Did Apple know about SATA III before the introduction of the 2012 5,1 cMP ?
= "Had THIS (SATA III ) been discussed within the Apple Hardware design community, prior to the 2012 cMP release ?

SATA III and information regarding this protocol were available to the general public from 2008.

Apple had already decided to kill cMP longevity.


What I'm ( just me ) getting at is that many. many MP owners paid ex ordinate prices to buy these machines
yet have not received the deserved support from Apple . . . .. . since Steve Jobs fell sick.

In my case, I was raising 2 very young children in Japan when I bought my 2,1 cMP.

Those of you ( still, comfortably in your own country ) without kids will not be able to relate to this scenario.

It was hard.

Apple didn't kill the cMP longevity, many people never upgraded for the 4,1/5,1 machines, lots of people still using them.

I can't say why Apple didn't include SATA III, tho it's likely a limitation of the X58 chipset, so blame Intel not Apple.

Anyway you're expecting Apple to support things that really fall into the domain of 3rd party vendors and that's just not how it works, it never worked that way. Did PC makers add NVME support to their systems that didn't ship with M.2 slots, no.

There is tons of open source efi drivers that anyone can add to the cMP firmware to support add in cards, just no one wants to put the time and effort into getting these things going, for the most part.

 

[h9826790]

Apple didn't kill the cMP longevity, many people never upgraded for the 4,1/5,1 machines, lots of people still using them.

I can't say why Apple didn't include SATA III, tho it's likely a limitation of the X58 chipset, so blame Intel not Apple.

Anyway you're expecting Apple to support things that really fall into the domain of 3rd party vendors and that's just not how it works, it never worked that way. Did PC makers add NVME support to their systems that didn't ship with M.2 slots, no.

There is tons of open source efi drivers that anyone can add to the cMP firmware to support add in cards, just no one wants to put the time and effort into getting these things going, for the most part.

Blame Intel? It’s Apple decided to use the SATA II limited Intel chipset. Not Intel force Apple to use that on a 2012 Mac Pro when SATA III supported chipset already available.

 

[DearthnVader]

Blame Intel? It’s Apple decided to use the SATA II limited Intel chipset. Not Intel force Apple to use that on a 2012 Mac Pro when SATA III supported chipset already available.

No one was forced to buy it, Apple never represented there would be any SATA III support on that system. They gave you how many PCI-E slots, and didn't do anything to stop 3rd parties from offering add in cards.

It's really only a limitation of the market.