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bwinter88

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
About the fan noise on the Highpoint 7101's: If you replace the fan with the lower airflow model and remove just the back side cover of the shroud to the rear of the fan (held on by four small screws), the fan then perfectly exploits the Venturi effect, drawing in more air and generating a rather exceptional amount of airflow with minimal noise. I have two cards running in my 7,1 and they are near silent yet the airflow is quite impressive, as measured by the high tech implement known as the palm of my hand.
 
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MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
691
Japan
All right, so because of the wavering speeds, I'm returning the OWC card.

I'm thinking of the Sonnet Card with (4) 2 TB Evo Plusses, but am worried about the possible firmware upgrade, as I don't have access to Windows.

Has anyone gotten the Sonnet and Evo Plusses to easily work?
just saw your post.

I bought a " NEW " 500gb 970 EVO Plus last week for my 4,1>5,1 cMP - checked the firmware in "About this Mac/ Hardware/ NMVE and discovered that it was the old, 1st. release which was very problematic in cMPs = kernel panics, shutdowns etc.

Anyway, I was able to upgrade to the latest firmware without having to boot Windows.

The whole story & method is here


It's a good idea NOT to format Samsung 970 EVO Plus blades until the firmware has been checked.


The current furmware is 2B2QEXM7
 

Rocky Zadok

macrumors newbie
Jan 27, 2020
1
1
So I know I'm probably super late to this topic considering the size of this thread, but I have an Intel Optane 960GB 905P that I just heard Linus say in passing that he was able to set up as his boot disk ith good results. Have any of you used tried this, and if so, how did it work out? Was it worth it? Thanks!
 
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zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
I ordered the 16TB HDD from B&H after they alerted me it was in stock about a week ago. I have it ready for my 2Ji and the MP7,1 when I received it Feb 7-13, 2020.

I wil partition this 16TB into 3; one 8TB for backing up the Promise stock 8TB, one 4TB for Time Machine, and one 4TB for backing up my Sonnet's 4TB RAID-0 data...
  • Internal Sonnet SSD M.2 4x4 PCIe x16 lanes card
    • Populated with four Samsung EVO Plus SSD/Flash blades (1x 2TB and 3x 1TB blades)
    • The 2TB blade will be split into two equal 1TB partitions; one formatted as APFS and the other as HFS+.
    • Will hold a 1TB backup clone (bootable) of the internal MP7,1's 1TB SSD.
    • Provides a 4x 1TB RAID-0 giving approximately 5000 to 6000 MB/sec data rates. (Example: transferring a 100GB file from kernel buffer file cache to the Sonnet's 4TB RAID-0 will take ~17 to ~20 seconds)
Will hold a 1TB backup clone (bootable) of the internal MP7,1's 1TB SSD.
---
what app do you use to clone the internal apple drive? when things happen in the internal apple drive, then we can boot from the PCIe nvme drive, just quickly get back to work, but is it possible the restore to the internal apple drive as well? thanks a lot
 

bxs

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2007
1,151
529
Seattle, WA
Will hold a 1TB backup clone (bootable) of the internal MP7,1's 1TB SSD.
---
what app do you use to clone the internal apple drive? when things happen in the internal apple drive, then we can boot from the PCIe nvme drive, just quickly get back to work, but is it possible the restore to the internal apple drive as well? thanks a lot
I use CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) for cloning, and yes, the internal Apple SSD can be restored from a CCC clone without issues.
 
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zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100

I use CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) for cloning, and yes, the internal Apple SSD can be restored from a CCC clone without issues.

Thanks a lot

I'm planning to set CCC clone every 5 days and also using the time machine as a 2nd back up.

What is your back up frequency for this kind of back up or back up strategy? I know maybe really depend on different people's needs, I just want to learn and see if I missing something.

Thanks a lot.
 
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astrorider

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2008
595
131
Thanks a lot

I'm planning to set CCC clone every 5 days and also using the time machine as a 2nd back up.

What is your back up frequency for this kind of back up or back up strategy? I know maybe really depend on different people's needs, I just want to learn and see if I missing something.

Thanks a lot.
After some minor data loss from poor backups, what's worked well for me for years is a daily clone on one drive (an SSD so you can get back up and running quickly), a weekly clone on another, and a Time Machine on a third drive, plus an off-site backup (e.g. Backblaze). I haven't needed the off-site for anything yet, but the others have all been extremely useful. The clones are automatically managed by CCC. I generally save at least one clone from an old machine when I upgrade to a new machine as well, just in case I find a month or two later something didn't migrate correctly.
 
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bxs

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2007
1,151
529
Seattle, WA
I typically have three clones at play for my production internal boot device. I use CCC to clone my production internal device on Monday, Wednesday and Saturday to physically separate devices, and then cycle through this each week. This allows me to recover back to a week ago if bad things have happened during the week.

I configure Time Machine to backup to a device that has 4x the space of my selected devices I configure Time Machine to backup.

I keep my most important data on a local RAID-5 setup and use CrashPlan/Code42 for keeping more backups offsite.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
Recommend you swap between at least two backups, at least one on a weekly basis and other more often.

Even clone to cheap external hard drives or SATA SSD with intent to swap to NVMe SSD later if there’s an issue. Especially easy if you have another Mac around, like an MBP.

Don’t touch backups for 2-3 days after an OS update or incorporate a third and archive the previous for 6-8 weeks, then rotate out of cycle with next OS update.

Time machine daily/ongoing for supplement helps catch anything in between clones.
 

profdraper

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2017
391
290
Brisbane, Australia
After some minor data loss from poor backups, what's worked well for me for years is a daily clone on one drive (an SSD so you can get back up and running quickly), a weekly clone on another, and a Time Machine on a third drive, plus an off-site backup (e.g. Backblaze). I haven't needed the off-site for anything yet, but the others have all been extremely useful. The clones are automatically managed by CCC. I generally save at least one clone from an old machine when I upgrade to a new machine as well, just in case I find a month or two later something didn't migrate correctly.
I'd offer just a little caution with the CCC backup practice:
I've always had the primary boot disk (in this case, the Apple-shipped 2TB) and another 'Alt Boot' disk (in this case, a 256GB NVMe). And so one can boot from either & of course from Alt Boot in case soemthing goes pear shaped and I need to restore a CCC image to the primary boot disk.

My caution is not to do regular 'automated' CCC backups, but rather, on-demand & manual once I am ceratin this in fact is a 'good' image /system. Otherwise I may be restoring something which could be glitchy. eg, I currently have images for Primary boot 10.15.2 & another for the recent 10.15.3 update. Once I am confident about the 10.15.3, will delete the 10.15.2.

CCC does not do obvious incremental backups (although, yes, there are APFS snapshots, I do not find this especially well organised or notated). By comparison, Macrium Reflect (Windows) allows me to make notes in every backup's metadata and so roll-backs to certain restore points make this crystal clear. In the case of MacOS /CCC, no sot obvious & so I make a new CCC image, name it and keep upadte notes for critical install points. But no, I would not make auto-backups at (say) weekly timings for the reasons mentioned above. Re. Docs (if they are located on the Boot disk) - these are indeed syncronised separately to a NAS via something like Good Sync or Chronosync.

Hope that helps.
 
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bxs

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2007
1,151
529
Seattle, WA
profdraper makes good points...

1) Before updating the primary boot device always have a clone of the previous boot image, although Apple's snapshot feature allows for this recovery to be done in a seamless way without the need for cloning the previous boot image.

2) If manual clones are to be made the user must be diligent in making them. Auto cloning schedules avoid the user forgetting to make the clones.

3) The CCC snapshot feature does need to be understood to make full use of the snapshot feature and would encourage users who do use CCC to acquaint themselves with the CCC snapshot feature... see See "Leveraging Snapshots on APFS Volumes" https://bombich.com/kb/ccc5/leveraging-snapshots-on-apfs-volumes


4) I do emphasize the need for protecting important data in an offsite location.

5) The user would be advised to periodically test and verify recovery from clones and snapshots, and make notes on how to accomplish this. Backups are of no use if they cannot be used for successful recovery.
 

handheldgames

macrumors 68000
Apr 4, 2009
1,943
1,170
Pacific NW, USA
About the fan noise on the Highpoint 7101's: If you replace the fan with the lower airflow model and remove just the back side cover of the shroud to the rear of the fan (held on by four small screws), the fan then perfectly exploits the Venturi effect, drawing in more air and generating a rather exceptional amount of airflow with minimal noise. I have two cards running in my 7,1 and they are near silent yet the airflow is quite impressive, as measured by the high tech implement known as the palm of my hand.

Great idea. I never thought about pulling off the metal cover on the new fans.
 

astrorider

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2008
595
131
I'd offer just a little caution with the CCC backup practice:
I've always had the primary boot disk (in this case, the Apple-shipped 2TB) and another 'Alt Boot' disk (in this case, a 256GB NVMe). And so one can boot from either & of course from Alt Boot in case soemthing goes pear shaped and I need to restore a CCC image to the primary boot disk.

My caution is not to do regular 'automated' CCC backups, but rather, on-demand & manual once I am ceratin this in fact is a 'good' image /system. Otherwise I may be restoring something which could be glitchy. eg, I currently have images for Primary boot 10.15.2 & another for the recent 10.15.3 update. Once I am confident about the 10.15.3, will delete the 10.15.2.

CCC does not do obvious incremental backups (although, yes, there are APFS snapshots, I do not find this especially well organised or notated). By comparison, Macrium Reflect (Windows) allows me to make notes in every backup's metadata and so roll-backs to certain restore points make this crystal clear. In the case of MacOS /CCC, no sot obvious & so I make a new CCC image, name it and keep upadte notes for critical install points. But no, I would not make auto-backups at (say) weekly timings for the reasons mentioned above. Re. Docs (if they are located on the Boot disk) - these are indeed syncronised separately to a NAS via something like Good Sync or Chronosync.

Hope that helps.
You're right, that's a great point. What I do to avoid automated backups overwriting my clones during major changes (e.g. the Catalina betas), is simply disconnect the two CCC clones (daily and weekly) and use another drive as a daily clone instead. It's a cheap portable spinning 2TB that's so slow I would never want to boot from it, but it's pretty far down the list of backups. After a week or two I'd usually put the original clones back in place, but in the case of the Catalina betas I waited until the release.

I also do an occasional manual clone of my 2TB internal to an inexpensive Macbook Air with an upgraded 2TB disk (Target Disk Mode), so I have a second, backup machine for portable use or if the Mac Pro fails in some way. For me, having my exact environment (apps, preferences, active projects) cloned to the laptop this way is the best way I've found to manage two Macs.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
CCC's SafetyNet is "supposed to" solve this new "stuff" concern, or at least in theory. I personally do NOT use it on system drive clones at all and do not recommend it is used for them. I cycle clone drives every 5-21 days (depending on A/B/C/D/etc) and never update more than one at a time. Basically set reminders and manually launch (takes seconds at most). Do not like to schedule via software, unless you're attempting to replicate Time Machine style backup to a separate drive (and would not call that a clone).

In all honesty, the system drive of workstation use MacPro's do not change that much. All the important data is on "external" media drives that are on their own/separate CCC cycles. The system drive of my MBP is much more frequently updated/changed and that clone is vitally important to me. (Realize not everyone has two machines.)

You also want to think about your storage/vault situation. Keeping the drives in a fire/water safe when not in use and any off-site backups. There are fire/water rated backup drives, but expensive and bulky. Physically attaching and moving is usually more economical for those on a budget.
 
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Theophilos

macrumors regular
Jul 29, 2015
171
178
California
FYI, for those considering the High Point SSD7101A-1, some of us are experiencing an issue in which the card will randomly panic and shut down our Mac Pro 7,1 at some point in the sleep routine.

I ordered mine from Amazon Warehouse and installed it with the High Point driver and WebGUI, which I used to create the RAID 0 array on two Evo Plus 1 TB drives. The computer began to randomly shut down at each sleep so I removed the card and decided to get another Sonnet 4x4.

Before returning the High Point, I thought I might try the card again, but this time without the High Point driver and WebGUI as #tsialex indicated the kernel natively recognizes the card. Even without the High Point driver and software, the same problematic behavior occurred.

I don't see any reason to continue testing. Maybe I and the others who experienced this have bad cards or bad firmware, but I thought it is worth mentioning for anyone interested.
 
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bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
Just to clarify: was your firmware on HighPoint updated? Any indication which version it was?
 

Theophilos

macrumors regular
Jul 29, 2015
171
178
California
Just to clarify: was your firmware on HighPoint updated? Any indication which version it was?

I posted some photos here:

 

profdraper

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2017
391
290
Brisbane, Australia
Zombie, to setup your raid did you use disk utility or Softraid? I found using the Highpoint driver I got faster read/writes using the Highpoint driver and GUI setup.
I've had a few odd things here with my SSD7101A-1 & 4x500GB Samsung 970 EV0 Plus as RAID 0 for fast cache disk. The card is current firmware with fan control etc, ditto latest from driver & Web GUI. Catalina 10.15.3.

Writing optimised media files, ProRes 422 for timelines in FCPX or DaVinci Resolve Studio. At some point into the write, the mac crashes big time, black screen, instantly turns off. Can't be re-started without a SMC reset. This has happened a couple of times now with the Highpoint driver.

Since then, have reinitialised and set up with SoftRAID. BM SpeedTest shows only slightly lower RW speeds, but not much. Since SoftRAID, have been doing sustained writes (20-30 mins) for cache and transcoding to the HighPoint without any probs so far. Think I'll stay with this.

BTW, FCPX and Resolve don't really seem to be pushing the mac that hard, eg watching the writes on Sensi, iStats Menus, Intel Power Gadget. Ram use no more than 15%, CPU use no more than 25 %, sometimes the GPU (Vega II) gets up there but seems erratic, more often at lower loads.

I have the impression that the apps & possibly the OS are not making as much use of the mac as they might just yet. Waiting for Resolve Studio 16.2 and perhaps a revved up version of FCPX that might put the hardware to more use? Stays cool and quite and everything but would seem it is a little under-leveraged and/or a bit too polite for now. Alternatively, hoping the MacOS 'pro mode' might come to fruition.

PS
The upside to keeping the Highpoint driver and WebGUI installed is that it can still set card prefs, like the fan speeds, diagnostics & Highpoint support portal.
 

zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
After some minor data loss from poor backups, what's worked well for me for years is a daily clone on one drive (an SSD so you can get back up and running quickly), a weekly clone on another, and a Time Machine on a third drive, plus an off-site backup (e.g. Backblaze). I haven't needed the off-site for anything yet, but the others have all been extremely useful. The clones are automatically managed by CCC. I generally save at least one clone from an old machine when I upgrade to a new machine as well, just in case I find a month or two later something didn't migrate correctly.
I typically have three clones at play for my production internal boot device. I use CCC to clone my production internal device on Monday, Wednesday and Saturday to physically separate devices, and then cycle through this each week. This allows me to recover back to a week ago if bad things have happened during the week.

I configure Time Machine to backup to a device that has 4x the space of my selected devices I configure Time Machine to backup.

I keep my most important data on a local RAID-5 setup and use CrashPlan/Code42 for keeping more backups offsite.
You're right, that's a great point. What I do to avoid automated backups overwriting my clones during major changes (e.g. the Catalina betas), is simply disconnect the two CCC clones (daily and weekly) and use another drive as a daily clone instead. It's a cheap portable spinning 2TB that's so slow I would never want to boot from it, but it's pretty far down the list of backups. After a week or two I'd usually put the original clones back in place, but in the case of the Catalina betas I waited until the release.

I also do an occasional manual clone of my 2TB internal to an inexpensive Macbook Air with an upgraded 2TB disk (Target Disk Mode), so I have a second, backup machine for portable use or if the Mac Pro fails in some way. For me, having my exact environment (apps, preferences, active projects) cloned to the laptop this way is the best way I've found to manage two Macs.
CCC's SafetyNet is "supposed to" solve this new "stuff" concern, or at least in theory. I personally do NOT use it on system drive clones at all and do not recommend it is used for them. I cycle clone drives every 5-21 days (depending on A/B/C/D/etc) and never update more than one at a time. Basically set reminders and manually launch (takes seconds at most). Do not like to schedule via software, unless you're attempting to replicate Time Machine style backup to a separate drive (and would not call that a clone).

In all honesty, the system drive of workstation use MacPro's do not change that much. All the important data is on "external" media drives that are on their own/separate CCC cycles. The system drive of my MBP is much more frequently updated/changed and that clone is vitally important to me. (Realize not everyone has two machines.)

You also want to think about your storage/vault situation. Keeping the drives in a fire/water safe when not in use and any off-site backups. There are fire/water rated backup drives, but expensive and bulky. Physically attaching and moving is usually more economical for those on a budget.
I'd offer just a little caution with the CCC backup practice:
I've always had the primary boot disk (in this case, the Apple-shipped 2TB) and another 'Alt Boot' disk (in this case, a 256GB NVMe). And so one can boot from either & of course from Alt Boot in case soemthing goes pear shaped and I need to restore a CCC image to the primary boot disk.

My caution is not to do regular 'automated' CCC backups, but rather, on-demand & manual once I am ceratin this in fact is a 'good' image /system. Otherwise I may be restoring something which could be glitchy. eg, I currently have images for Primary boot 10.15.2 & another for the recent 10.15.3 update. Once I am confident about the 10.15.3, will delete the 10.15.2.

CCC does not do obvious incremental backups (although, yes, there are APFS snapshots, I do not find this especially well organised or notated). By comparison, Macrium Reflect (Windows) allows me to make notes in every backup's metadata and so roll-backs to certain restore points make this crystal clear. In the case of MacOS /CCC, no sot obvious & so I make a new CCC image, name it and keep upadte notes for critical install points. But no, I would not make auto-backups at (say) weekly timings for the reasons mentioned above. Re. Docs (if they are located on the Boot disk) - these are indeed syncronised separately to a NAS via something like Good Sync or Chronosync.

Hope that helps.
Thank you all for the useful tips

I have now set it up to an every 5 Day clone using CCC from Internal to a PCI-E SSD in Mac Pro.
Tested to boot from the PCI-E SSD backup successfully.

Because I notice there are APFS snapshots and CCC snapshots. I still have some questions.
As to APFS snapshot, If I want to restore the Mac to a previews state, I went Command + R to Recovery mode, then select TimeMachine, then select restore from local Macintosh HD, then select one of the back up to restore, am I doing the right step?

I tried to do that today, but it shows:An error occurred while rolling back the local snapshot. the system may be in an inconsistent state.
Screen Shot 2020-02-02 at 3.58.39 pm.png



But wired thing is that when I restart it does when back to that time state. Deleted files come back. Is this normal?



I have also enabled CCC snapshots and SaftyNet as well.
I have the first back up clone(10.15.2) to PCI-E SSD Backup Drive
Then OS update to 10.15.3 and tested and believed it is stable, Then I click clone to do the 2nd and 3rd backup to the same PCI-E SSD backup Drive.

Because I turn on CCC Snapshot and SafetyNet, I clicked the Manage Snapshot I can see there are snapshots on it.
Is that means I can restore from any of those CCC snapshots to the Internal drive when things happen?

If my PCI-E SSD is large enough to hold many CCC Snapshots, then I do not need to have 2 PCI-E SSDs to do one daily back up and the other for weekly back up, I can just use one PCI-E SSD for multiple backup then restore from the different snapshot, am I understand right?
Screen Shot 2020-02-03 at 12.01.38 am.png




There is one thing in Catalina very confusing
Because Macintosh HD is now separated into two Drive
Macintosh HD
Macintosh HD - Data


Every time I back up, “Macintosh HD - Data” will have a CCC snapshot, but on “Macintosh HD”, not every backup has a snapshot.
Screen Shot 2020-02-03 at 12.01.17 am.png


Screen Shot 2020-02-03 at 12.01.26 am.png


For example, If I have done the 1st backup at 1 am, the 2nd backup at 2 am, the 3rd back up at 3 am

On “Macintosh HD - Data” will have all 3 CCC snapshots backups, but on “Macintosh HD” only have 1st and 2nd backup but no 3 am backup. (maybe there is no change from 2-3 am?)

But If I want to restore from 3 am backup if I restore in 2 partitions Macintosh HD(2 am backup) and Macintosh HD(3 am backup) - Data separately, will it be a problem?
Thanks a lot
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
Original poster
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Not sure if I updated this thread, but just thought I'd note that I went with the Highpoint 7120 and Micron 9300 Pro 15.36TB drive option. Lot of details of getting it to work found in this thread:

 
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chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,425
2,110
Berlin
Ok so I got the heatsink for the old velociraptor. Thanks so much @tsialex.

So the old system would run somewhere between 136-144F when it was being very taxed (like indexing the drive), and mostly run at 136F at boot. It would then cool down to about 125-127F when it's being used normally but not battered.

With the new heatsink the absolute maximum temp I get is 122F when it's really being hit hard indexing. Most of the time it sits at 115F. So around a 10-20F lowering, which is great.

I got .5mm and 1.5mm thermal pads from here:

I cut the 1.5mm thermal pad to basically be the size of the entire drive. The Velociroaptor heat sink has 2 20mm square upward protrusions to help dissipate the heat, so I cut squares out of the 1.5mm pad to let those protrude through. Then I cut two 20x20m squares of the .5mm thermal pads to sit atop those protrusions (and holes out by the screws). That way all the thermal pads sat flush. Screwed it in snug to hopefully get a little compression of the thermal pads and I was done. I didn't use any thermal paste or other things. I'm sure you could drive down the temps even more if you want to get fancy, but we are now at a very comfortable temp range, so that's good enough.

A few shots of what it looks like now.
View attachment 890591 View attachment 890592 View attachment 890593 View attachment 890594
If I would like to use just that Star point Adapter card- how should I cool the drive in that scenario?
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
Original poster
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
If I would like to use just that Star point Adapter card- how should I cool the drive in that scenario?

not sure. You might have enough air there that it’s fine on it’s own. Or just get some nvme air cooled fins for blades and stick them on with thermal pads.
 
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