Bootable Windows 10 any time soon?

[Maconplasma]

Oh, and "this forum" doesn't agree with anything, but feel free to go and cherry-pick a few criticisms of the "I'm a PC" ads while ignoring all the posters who cheered when "PC guy" showed up at the M1 launch...

Newsflash! The "PC guy" was always a Mac user from the start of those ads. He despises Windows and doesn't own a Windows machine. He's made that quite clear.

What the heck is your point here? MS were promoting their own lightweight laptop against a competitor's laptop - sorry if you didn't like the style of ad. They still make products for Mac.

They were disparaging the product. The kid was tipping the Mac screen back until the bottom started lifting off the table. That's not only rude but it certainly wouldn't get me to buy Surface. I hope you realize companies fire employees for disparaging competing products because said company can sue them. Apple just doesn't go down low like Microsoft and Samsung do.

You appear to be here to hijack the discussion so you can rant about an irrelevant Microsoft advert that you don't like, totally dismiss the idea that anybody would ever want to run a Windows App on their Mac and generally bash everything Microsoft while accusing anybody who disagrees with you of being a Microsoft apologist.

Uh maybe you forgot while you're ranting at me that you came at me first with this insane long post trying to shut me up. I will absolutely rebuttal your response to my post. I don't have to be "in the crowd" with people who want to install Windows on their Mac but I absolutely have every right to post my opinion. You can simply ignore my posts right? Why do my posts even bother you anyway? You act like Apple is reading my posts and I'm influencing them to not allow Windows to be installed. ?

Newsflash: lots of people here don't like Microsoft stuff - whether it is Office for Mac or Windows apps - but have to use it anyway where there's no viable Mac equivalent and they don't have the luxury of locking themselves into a little Mac-only bubble.

Which brings me back to my original point. If you can't get along without Windows then a Mac is the wrong computer to buy. Seems to be that you can do everything on a Windows machine that a Mac can do so there's no reason to buy a Mac.

 

[bobcomer]

Dell XPS 13 $2,049.99
M1 MBP $1,899.00

Lenovo X1, same config $1749.

 

[flopticalcube]

The jury is still out on that one for me. I know the MBA needs better cooling, but I haven't use an actively cooled M1 machine yet. I know me 2017 MBP had extremely sucky cooling. It was loud and didn't really keep it cool anyway.

I think the MBA should have been released with slightly lower clocks then performance would have been more even. You can improve the cooling of the MBA by applying thermal pads to the heatsink inside. This will use the underside as a heatsink and results in better cooling but now you will have a hot metal plate on your lap. My son has an M1 MBP and he never hears the fan, even when the machine is under heavy load.

 

[bobcomer]

And the crazy thing about the X1 and T series notebooks: The swapped CTRL and FN keys on the left side.

I literally have to offer Dell Latitudes to my staff specifically because some people cant/won’t deal with the CTRL key not being in the corner. ?‍♂️

That doesn't bother me as we buy Lenovo's almost exclusively at work. There is a UEFI setting to swap the 2 keys for those that want to use it. The T series are great, just a little heavy for my likes.

 

[Maconplasma]

That's just normal marketing and having a bit of fun. You don't really believe that adverts are a way to gauge companies' willingness to cooperate, surely? Samsung mobile pokes fun at Apple all the time. Apple buys tons of components from Samsung on a daily basis.

MS is pretty keen to get off its reliance on Intel. This is why they have embraced other platforms and released first class citizen versions of their applications on those platforms. This is why they continue work on a version of Windows that does not rely on x86 microprocessor architecture, despite their efforts being mostly a failure so far.

Yeah and if Apple pulled this kind of crap by disparaging Microsoft's hardware this forum would be in outrage against Apple. But it's okay when a competing company does this. Your post alone excusing this really shows me where a few people are at here. SMH.
Show me in the past 5 years.....no in the past 10 years where Apple has had TV ads disparaging their competition's hardware by showing side by side comparisons and physically trashing the product? Even the Mac vs. PC ads which were well over 10 years ago didn't involve any hardware. It's sad how much this forum hates Apple so much that they excuse competitor's for disparaging Apple's products and call it fun tactics but if Apple did 1/3 of this there would be a ton of Apple trashing. Pretty sad.

 

[theluggage]

Newsflash! The "PC guy" was always a Mac user from the start of those ads. He despises Windows and doesn't own a Windows machine. He's made that quite clear.

Newsflash: the "PC guy" is a fictitious character invented by Apple's ad agency. What the actor's own opinions are doesn't figure. I guess Bill Gates turned down the part.

They were disparaging the product. The kid was tipping the Mac screen back until the bottom started lifting off the table. That's not only rude but it certainly wouldn't get me to buy Surface.

...and the "I'm a Mac" ads were disparaging Microsoft's product. They were just better written. Nobody is arguing that the MS advert was a work of art - just that it is completely irrelevant to the topic being discussed. Yeah, if you open a MacBook like that, it does tip back. No it doesn't have a touchscreen. Etc. Not my idea of winning arguments, but all justifiable (...which is why I assumed you meant the Intel ads, which were a direct attack on the M1 itself by a company that doesn't actually make laptops and featured some highly questionable tactics like, as I mentioned, testing one machines for performance and a different one for power consumption).

I don't have to be "in the crowd" with people who want to install Windows on their Mac but I absolutely have every right to post my opinion.

...and everybody else has a right to disagree with you. If your response to polite disagreement is to start hurling insults and accusing people of being Microsoft shills, expect harsher criticism in response.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I have a MBA-M1, and it starts throttling almost immediately for me, and that doesn't even count when I start up a VM. I know the MBP would do better because of active cooling, but I didn't want to risk spending that much on something I might not be able to use. (My MBA has 16G RAM and 1TB disk)

Anyway, I was talking about real world performance, not benchmarks. How fast does it feel, where's the annoyances, things like that.

Weird, your logs show this? My logs show nothing. Maybe something is wrong with your MBA?

Edited for output:

pmset -g thermlog
Note: No thermal warning level has been recorded
Note: No performance warning level has been recorded
Note: No CPU power status has been recorded

 

[theluggage]

Show me in the past 5 years.....no in the past 10 years where Apple has had TV ads disparaging their competition's hardware by showing side by side comparisons and physically trashing the product?

Why? Nobody here is saying they did, and it has nothing to do with the topic. You were the one who raised the "I'm a Mac" campaign in the first place. You were the one who raised MS's Surface advert. Nobody here is defending the MS advert - just questionning your reasoning as to why it means that MS won't support Windows on Mac.

 

[bobcomer]

You can improve the cooling of the MBA by applying thermal pads to the heatsink inside.

And voiding your warrantee! Anyway, it works pretty well for light stuff, and that is the target for the Air.

 

[dmccloud]

Microsoft wants its OS everywhere. That and MS Office are their bread and butter. Apple is keeping them back and I'm sure it is for privacy and security reasons.

Wrong - Microsoft's licensing for WoA restricts it to System builders - meaning companies who build Windows-based laptops. Apple is on record as stating that it is up to Microsoft whether or not to allow WoA to be run on a Mac. However, it would be via virtualization, as Boot Camp is dead for all intents and purposes on the M-series Macs.

 

[bobcomer]

Weird, your logs show this? My logs show nothing. Maybe something is wrong with your MBA?

Never really checked the logs, just going by the system monitor and an app that tells the CPU temp. Something could be wrong with it, but it acts pretty normal.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And voiding your warrantee! Anyway, it works pretty well for light stuff, and that is the target for the Air.

the M1 MBA seems to work pretty well for the heavy stuff as well? Beats the crap out of my work issued dell i7...

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Never really checked the logs, just going by the system monitor and an app that tells the CPU temp. Something could be wrong with it, but it acts pretty normal.

I am going to need more information to believe it is passively throttling. I have seen nothing indicating that on mine. I was messing around with handbrake and I couldn't even get it to throttle then. I would otherwise definitely believe that you have something wrong. This thing seems like a beast to me.

I did have a single kernel panic related to a USB device hub (I believe). Otherwise it has been pretty smooth as my daily driver.

 

[dmccloud]

Yeah and if Apple pulled this kind of crap by disparaging Microsoft's hardware this forum would be in outrage against Apple. But it's okay when a competing company does this. Your post alone excusing this really shows me where a few people are at here. SMH.
Show me in the past 5 years.....no in the past 10 years where Apple has had TV ads disparaging their competition's hardware by showing side by side comparisons and physically trashing the product? Even the Mac vs. PC ads which were well over 10 years ago didn't involve any hardware. It's sad how much this forum hates Apple so much that they excuse competitor's for disparaging Apple's products and call it fun tactics but if Apple did 1/3 of this there would be a ton of Apple trashing. Pretty sad.

There was the return of the "I'm a PC" ad at the end of Apple's November event announcing the M1 Macs. I was said that Justin Long (Mac) wasn't part of it, but John Hodgman still killed it. That was not an ad for TV so much as a easter egg for everyone watching that presentation, but even then they never mentioned any competitor by name, only using "PC" and making fun of battery life in those machines.

The Microsoft ad (and even Intel's shady comparisons) targeted the Mac directly and by name, which the "I'm a Mac" ads never did. My issue with the Intel approach is that (just like everything they have done for the last decade) they cherry pick comparison points to make their crap look better. When they first unveiled their 11th generation Core processors and Iris Xe iGPUs (which are nothing more than rebadged Intel UHD), they were comparing them against older solutions (Vega 6 iGPU, nVidia MX350 dGPU) to prove Intel's superiority rather than taking on current generation parts such as a 1650 Super (the 1660Ti would have beaten the Xe graphics so soundly that the original Core 2 Duo would be feeling the effects of that beatdown, and even Intel isn't dumb enough to take on any RTX-series card head-on. The Microsoft video felt more like a company desperately grasping at straws while trying to make their product relevant again, as the Surface has not gained a lot of traction outside of the business market.

 

[theluggage]

Wrong - Microsoft's licensing for WoA restricts it to System builders - meaning companies who build Windows-based laptops.

True - but then there aren't really any potential customers for a "retail" WoA license until a "stable" version of Parallels or suchlike for M1 is available. The WoA machines that do exist tend to be ultraportables with custom systems-on-a-chip which (along with their drivers) are only practically available to "serious callers only" system builders. The nearest thing to a common ARM hardware platform available to consumers is the Raspberry Pi (I doubt theres a queue for $150 Windows licenses for that - although people have had the insider preview version running on it).

I still think the most likely outcome is a MS/Parallels bundle deal analogous to a "system builder" license.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Many professionals run Windows on their Macs because they tend to swap between both operating systems.

I also wouldn't have to wait until Devs have actually ported plugins to M1 which will probably take a few months.

I would buy an Intel NUC or one of the very smallest Dell boxes, or put one together from parts, and run it headless, and use Microsoft Remote Desktop to get into it. Allows you to jump back and forth easily, and then also allow each machine to use it's own processing power and bandwidth separately.

 

[iHorseHead]

To run Windows10 , by now , is better to buy a spare intel notebook to use sometimes side by side with MacBook M1 Air ...

AMD notebooks are better and faster. Tested.

 

[leman]

I have a MBA-M1, and it starts throttling almost immediately for me, and that doesn't even count when I start up a VM. I know the MBP would do better because of active cooling, but I didn't want to risk spending that much on something I might not be able to use. (My MBA has 16G RAM and 1TB disk)

There might be something wrong with your MBA (or maybe you are very sensitive to certain small changes). The MBA doesn't need much thermal headroom to burst to it's maximal performance (5 watts compared to Tiger Lake 20-25 watts). The only place where it should exhibit throttling is GPU-heavy work or heavy-duty multithreading, and even than the measured throttling is 10-20% (which is still faster than most x86 CPUs on full speed).

Anyway, I was talking about real world performance, not benchmarks. How fast does it feel, where's the annoyances, things like that.

As do I. I've been using the M1 MBP and an Intel i9 16" side by side - the M1 wins for almost everything I do, unless it's an embarrassingly parallel task.

Lenovo X1, same config $1749.

Which config are you talking about exactly? I am looking at Lenovo USA website for 16GB, 1TB, HiDPI display machines and I see the following:

X1 Titanium Yoga ($2,469.35)
X1 Carbon Gen 8 — old model with Comet Lake ($1,931.40)
X1 Nano 13" with a decent CPU ($2,207.40)

 

[leman]

AMD notebooks are better and faster. Tested.

They are faster if you are running a lot of multithreaded apps and even then you need to run them above their TDP to get good performance. And it's kind of difficult to find a decent Ryzen laptop (either sold out or not available). Single-threaded performance of mobile Ryzen is still lack-lustre which limits it's every day usefulness.

 

[bobcomer]

I am going to need more information to believe it is passively throttling. I have seen nothing indicating that on mine. I was messing around with handbrake and I couldn't even get it to throttle then. I would otherwise definitely believe that you have something wrong. This thing seems like a beast to me.

I did have a single kernel panic related to a USB device hub (I believe). Otherwise it has been pretty smooth as my daily driver.

Just try running parallels desktop and a vm... (though that's not the only way, just try using Chrome or Firefox with a lot of tabs.)

 

[flopticalcube]

I think the 5000-series are slightly faster than Tiger Lake in single thread but the fastest processor is the one you can buy.

 

[bobcomer]

Which config are you talking about exactly? I am looking at Lenovo USA website for 16GB, 1TB, HiDPI display machines and I see the following:

X1 Titanium Yoga ($2,469.35)
X1 Carbon Gen 8 — old model with Comet Lake ($1,931.40)
X1 Nano 13" with a decent CPU ($2,207.40)

You have to "build it yourself. 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD. The Carbon.

 

[leman]

I think the 5000-series are slightly faster than Tiger Lake in single thread but the fastest processor is the one you can buy.

Zen 3 certainly caught up, but the bulk of Cezanne models (especially the U model) are still yet to be seen, and I haven't seen any if the released model actually available in shops.

You have to "build it yourself. 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD. The Carbon.

Just tried building one, with mid-range Comet Lake i7 CPU and the 4K display panel — $1,977.00. You can save some money by choosing the Full HD display, but it's still the same price as the M1 Pro with a much faster CPU, better display and 2x battery life.

Just try running parallels desktop and a vm... (though that's not the only way, just try using Chrome or Firefox with a lot of tabs.)

Parallels is a tech preview with known issues and both Chrome and Firefox native implementation are inferior to Safari. How can you be sure that what you are observing is throttling and not, well, suboptimal software?

 

[iHorseHead]

They are faster if you are running a lot of multithreaded apps and even then you need to run them above their TDP to get good performance. And it's kind of difficult to find a decent Ryzen laptop (either sold out or not available). Single-threaded performance of mobile Ryzen is still lack-lustre which limits it's every day usefulness.

I'm not so sure. I have MSI Ryzen notebook and it's fast and can run every game that I want to play. The build quality is awful though.

 

[leman]

I'm not so sure. I have MSI Ryzen notebook and it's fast and can run every game that I want to play. The build quality is awful though.

Almost anything is fast enough for playing any game if you use a decent GPU. I don't want to diss your Ryzen, they are great CPUs, but you argument is just not good enough when you want to make a comprehensive comparative analysis of CPU performance. Luckily enough, there are dedicated people who did those for us