Building a new desktop

[Erehy Dobon]

OP is a Windows guy.

With Apple's two-year Mac transition to Apple Silicon, macOS on x86 hardware is a dead end anyhow. I'm sure future versions of macOS will continue to run on existing Intel Mac hardware but they won't be writing new device drivers for later hardware.

So one day if you acquire a new motherboard with the latest BIOS, new WiFi 7, new audio chipsets, etc., you won't be able to Hackintosh that board. And forget about graphics card drivers from Apple.

 

[maflynn]

any thoughts of Hackintoshing it and running macOS?

No desire, I prefer windows

 

[Erehy Dobon]

This pretty much summarizes the current GPU situation:

Best cheap graphics card deals

Yes, once more there are cheap graphics card deals.

www.pcgamer.com

"This is the part of the article where we would normally list the best graphics cards deals we can find, but there is essentially nothing we can recommend at the moment."

 

[Thysanoptera]

This pretty much summarizes the current GPU situation:

Somebody mentioned this earlier, maybe even you, and I've spend a good portion of the day trying to figure out what to do. The used prices are insane, and I have surplus of GPUs at home. 2080Ti, 1080Ti Hybrid, blower 1080, Vega FE and even RX580 in Mac Pro that I don't really need. Two of them are needed for my 6 year old twins, who only play minecraft on 1200p monitors, the rest can be sold.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

My gaming GPU is no slouch: a GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER so my current 1440p gaming needs are being met.

I would like to step up to a 3080 card but at this point I'm inclined to wait for a 16GB variant refresh. I have a chunk of cash earmarked for this purchase, now I just wait for the right thing to show up. I won't make any hasty decisions since I'm already in a very functional state. I have no excess hardware to sell off.

The rest of my build component purchases happened last year before A.) appalling price gouging and B.) new 2021 tariffs (thank you current administration).

I really want a Zen 3 CPU but again I will wait for the right thing. There's rumor of a Ryzen 5800 8-core/16-thread 65W part waiting in the wings. That's the CPU I want.

Next week's CES announcements may provide a little clarity but it's unlikely that there will be any immediate and easy stock availability on the newly announced silicon.

 

[maflynn]

My gaming GPU is no slouch: a GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER so my current 1440p gaming needs are being met.

I would like to step up to a 3080 card but at this point I'm inclined to wait

As I mentioned before I have an RTX 2060 Super in an EGPU and I'll be using that for the time being. There's no way I'm willing to spend the prices that are being offered for the 3080 (if you could find that GPU), so while I don't have a set budget for this build, I'm not going to go overboard. I'm happy just waiting.

new 2021 tariffs (thank you current administration).

Current administration let it lapse as the new administration isn't sworn in yet.

 

[maflynn]

I was able to get my 3600 for $160 from Microcenter when I built. Way better value.

What temps are you seeing, at idle and under load with the 3600?

 

[I7guy]

Any thought about waiting for rocket lake, allegedly being available in March?

I wish I could have waited, but I couldn’t take a chance. (On the other hand the practical side of me notes that chasing specs is pointless and I’m enjoying the increased performance for my new build. Just need to get a new video card)

 

[GoldfishRT]

What temps are you seeing, at idle and under load with the 3600?

So, huge disclaimer that Turbo (Core Performance Boost) is completely disabled on my computer:

Idle: 38-40c, Gaming: 50-62c, Synthetic: 67c.

Those temps are with the entire CPU locked at 3.6Ghz at all times. Fan at all times is effectively at a flat volume other than running synthetic benchmarks.

The temps were extremely hot even having it open-air with Turbo on though:

Idle: 50-60c, Gaming: 75-85c, Synthetic: 99c (HWInfo reported max of 105!)

 

[LeeW]

Just for comparison, on my i7-10700, using a bequiet cooler, at idle, never more than 30C

Never grabbed a screenshot in games, but playing FO4, WoW, Satisfactory and a couple of others, never got higher than 50C. Using a Corsair 270 case and I do have 4 other fans which help keep it cool.

 

[GoldfishRT]

Might take a walk on over to Microcenter and pick up a few cheap case fans to use as exhaust and see what that does. My system definitely starts to heat-soak bad after an hour or two of intense work. I'm also running that Wraith Stealth (not a fan).

Big problem with SFF cases too - like in my NCase I can stick a huge liquid cooler in there but many of the popular options for air cooling just aren't compatible.

 

[maflynn]

Any thought about waiting for rocket lake, allegedly being available in March?

I'm in no hurry, but it all depends on what rocket lake brings to the table. I'll start looking at rumors and/or reports to see

Just for comparison, on my i7-10700, using a bequiet cooler, at idle, never more than 30C

This is good news. I was geographic worried that is be seeing 100c on this

 

[Thysanoptera]

I'm in no hurry, but it all depends on what rocket lake brings to the table. I'll start looking at rumors and/or reports to see

This is good news. I was geographic worried that is be seeing 100c on this

Rocket Lake will have significant IPC increase, like Tiger Lake, should be faster in games than anything AMD currently has. But you can’t have it with more that 8 cores, because they reaching with left hand to the right pocket while backporting the architecture to old process.


As for temps - I’m moving my princess’ 3600 rig to B550 with integrated wifi, and while at it changing the cooler to wraith prism (the one that comes with 3700x with RGB - she’s really into unicorns, rainbows and my little ponies). @GoldfishRT has the worst stock cooler AMD provides and has no exhaust fans in his tiny case - it is going to be hot, even at 60W. I’ll let you know what the temps are in mATX case with decent cooler and normal fans setup.

 

[Thysanoptera]

@maflynn - mATX case with one exhaust fan, stock AMD cooler wraith prism but on Ryzen 3600, stock thermal compound preapplied to heatsink, silent fan profile in Asus AI suite.
Idle 35C, after 5 minutes of CB23 45C.

 

[maflynn]

I've done a lot of research yesterday, again given how I tend to be in isolation due to the pandemic, I have plenty of time on my hands - especially now that college football is over (not a fan of the NFL and I'm waiting for MLB).

So with that said, I'm doing a complete 180 degree turn around. I decided to go with an ITX build. I'm willing to forego nearly silent running with a mid-tower on the floor to a ITX case on the desk. I think (hoping really) that I can mitigate much of the noise and heat with using high quality fans and cooler either from BeQuiet or NocTura (or both.

The reason for the change of heart is I've been building, repairing computers since the 80s and I've almost always built a tower case - especially as we got into the 90s and beyond. This time around, I'd rather have something nice looking and have it on my desk. Plus building something like an ITX build will stretch my abilities as I want to make the innards look nice and not have cables every which way. Something that could be considered easier in an mid tower then an ITX case - its a challenge I want to under take

• Case I'll be going with the Lian Li TU-150 case
• Mother Board (90%) decided on MSI MEG Z490i Unify
• CPU: i5-10600k
• CPU Cooler (most likely an air cooler like a BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 or a Noctura air cooler. Not sure yet.

As you can see on the CPU, I'm "downgrading" to the I5 10600k (or perhaps KF variant since I don't need a igpu) and the reason for that is, I'll be getting near i7-10700k performance, with less heat and its at a lower price point. The reviews such Gamer Nexus and a few others correctly point a fast gaming CPU that runs a bit cooler and is less expensive. It makes the i7-10700k harder to justify, at least for my usage.

As for the cooling, I've never been a huge fan of liquid cooling, and instead of late I've used Noctura - I'm also liking what BeQuiet has to offer, in fact it was the BeQuiet CPU cooler then tempted me to look at their cases.

For AIOs, a pump introduces a failure point and worst case could be liquid damage and on non-catastrophic failure, you still have a completely dead machine where you need to replace the entire AIO assembly. For the air cooler you can limp along with a case fan in the air cooler's dead fan's spot.

Secondly, I came across a Gamer Nexus YT where he shows how certain AIO placements can lead to noise, improper cooling or shortened life. That is pump is the highest point with the tubes on the pump top, or the tubes on the rad at the top, then existing air in the system will impede its operation. Its a long video, and two sentences to give a description doesn't do it justice.

I've not talked about power supplies but I'm leaning towards a 650w gold PSU that is fully modular. While I'll be sticking a RTX 2060 in there with an eye for upgrading in the future, it will not be on RTX 3080 or similar. Given the premium price for that model, and also the thermal limitations of the case. Plus the fan design/layout of the RTX 3080 works, against small form factors (one fan pulls air in and it exhausts it out the other side of the card with a second fan or something to that affect)

Here's what I have for the build, from this point on, I'll be dropping the ATX components from my posts, but for this time around I thought it was useful.

tl;dr
ITX case looks exciting to build, ATX was not, and i5 fits my usage better.

 

[I7guy]

Case I'll be going with the Lian Li TU-150 case

Interesting, good to put a stake in the ground. Are you going to go with some RGB bling, given the case has a glass panel?

 

[maflynn]

good to put a stake in the ground.

That was definitely part of it. I lacked focus and I needed to get off the pot and make some choices.

Are you going to go with some RGB bling, given the case has a glass panel?

The case can be purchased with a glass panel or metal, I'm not sure which one I'll go with in all honesty. I think some RGB can be done tastefully, though I'm not a huge fan, I'm sure you've seen some garish and over the top RGB lighting.

 

[LeeW]

I just can't get the parts at the minute, so little is available. Not that I am desperate for a new build but I have time as you with being stuck at home.

 

[maflynn]

I just can't get the parts at the minute, so little is available. Not that I am desperate for a new build but I have time as you with being stuck at home.

Yeah, that's the biggest issue, but I'm personally not in any hurry. I'll just buy the components onsey-twosey. Right now I can pick up the case, and CPU, but motherboard is hard to find. I'm not interested in rushing through this, and so I don't mind waiting

 

[LeeW]

Indeed, I am the same, never really put a significant amount of thought into a PC build in the past, an 'as long as it works' approach. But I really want to build something a bit more, shall we say, special given I am using it so much more these days.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Little helper mounting the glass panel on her rig.

And in her room.

I've put Corsair RGB fans in it too, but they have custom rgb connectors, and you need corsair hub to connect them. I got them from AIO water cooler, replaced by boring non-rgb Noctuas, so I thought I'll put them in her PC. Ok, so I need the hub, I can use the one that came with AIO. Wrong - the pump has custom connector and works only with that hub. You've got to be kidding me. So I've got RGB fan hub, that only provides constant 12V to the pump in one build, and RGB fans that are dark in another.

 

[I7guy]

View attachment 1710963
Little helper mounting the glass panel on her rig.

View attachment 1710964
And in her room.

I've put Corsair RGB fans in it too, but they have custom rgb connectors, and you need corsair hub to connect them. I got them from AIO water cooler, replaced by boring non-rgb Noctuas, so I thought I'll put them in her PC. Ok, so I need the hub, I can use the one that came with AIO. Wrong - the pump has custom connector and works only with that hub. You've got to be kidding me. So I've got RGB fan hub, that only provides constant 12V to the pump in one build, and RGB fans that are dark in another.

Nice amount of bling. The case fans on my rig all have leds, but since I do not have a glass side panel, whatever is inside cannot be seen.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Current administration let it lapse as the new administration isn't sworn in yet.

Incorrect.

GPUs were previously exempted from the current administration's "List 3" tariffs; those exemptions expired at the end of 2020.

A Trump tax means you’ll pay even more for Nvidia and AMD’s impossible-to-find graphics cards

GPU shortage part 2.

www.theverge.com

ASUS has already publicly announced planned price increases partly due to the higher tariffs.

ASUS officially increases graphics cards and motherboards pricing - VideoCardz.com

2021 starts with increased pricing on ASUS PC components. ASUS has officially confirmed increased pricing for its graphics cards and motherboards ASUS has officially announced it will increase pricing for its graphics cards and motherboards effective immediately. The pricing has been adjusted...

videocardz.com

Like a tax, the trade tariffs don't add extra money to the manufacturers' pockets. They will go to the US federal government's coffers.

Here's WindowsCentral's take on the current situation:

https://www.windowscentral.com/if-youre-going-build-new-pc-do-it-now-trumps-gpu-tax-arrives

The current administration didn't create tariffs that expired after a short stint. That makes zero sense whatsoever.

What happens when the incoming administration takes over remains to be seen...

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Secondly, I came across a Gamer Nexus YT where he shows how certain AIO placements can lead to noise, improper cooling or shortened life. That is pump is the highest point with the tubes on the pump top, or the tubes on the rad at the top, then existing air in the system will impede its operation. Its a long video, and two sentences to give a description doesn't do it justice.

Ideally the AIO tube couplings should be at the lowest point for the device (CPU block or radiator); some of the CLC manufacturers recommend this placement but they won't go as far as to say that doing otherwise will cause failure. There would likely be massive class-action lawsuits if such failures were commonplace but there is no such history.

Positioning the CLCs so the tubes are at the bottom is easier with a larger, more spacious case. This is also less important if your CLC radiator is considerably over-specced for the CPU/GPU it is cooling. I have a 240mm Cooler Master CLC for my 65W 3700X CPU which provides a lot of headroom; the micro-ATX case is too tight to position the 240mm radiator with the hoses on the bottom.

By contrast the 120mm AIO CLC for my 3070 SUPER is ideally positioned with the hose couplings at the radiator bottom.

Early AIO CLCs might have had some reliability problems but this technology has matured considerably in the past five years. Personally I would expect five years of service from an AIO CLC; after that it doesn't owe me anything.

Many of today's motherboards have fan failure alarms anyhow that you can activate in the BIOS. For peace of mind one can turn these on for the AIO pump headers.

I've not talked about power supplies but I'm leaning towards a 650w gold PSU that is fully modular. While I'll be sticking a RTX 2060 in there with an eye for upgrading in the future, it will not be on RTX 3080 or similar. Given the premium price for that model, and also the thermal limitations of the case. Plus the fan design/layout of the RTX 3080 works, against small form factors (one fan pulls air in and it exhausts it out the other side of the card with a second fan or something to that affect)

A 650W PSU in a mini-ITX build sounds about right. That's what's in my NZXT H1 and I bought a 650W Seasonic for my micro-ATX build. My mini-tower ATX build has a be Quiet 850W PSU.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Nice amount of bling. The case fans on my rig all have leds, but since I do not have a glass side panel, whatever is inside cannot be seen.

The RAM is lit even when powered off, doubles as a nightlight. Maybe it is my confirmation bias but ever since that rgb RAM is in there I don't think we had a monster situation at night.